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[XFistsClenchedX]

Nevermind guys, I just fond Josh S's twitter and it's basically him masturbating furiously all over Major Nelson and Microsoft. He has a post begging Microsoft to keep Kinect always connected.

We just have a genuine true believer here. A delusional, frothing-at-the-mouth fanboy who is so blinded by his fervor for a company that he refuses to see all the awful shit they've done. There's no convincing someone like that, I think.

Right. I'm sure that doesn't describe you. The fact that you found my Twitter feed only proves my point about privacy. Btw, nice exaggeration about my Twitter posts. Yes, I do have a post begging MS to keep the Kinect always connected. The Kinect is what makes the Xbox One unique and I want 100% developer support for it.

 

[graywolf323]

hahaha what in the actual fuck

"MS didn't fuck anything up." God, where do you people come from?

I like to think they're test tube babies

 

[Josman]

I love how they basically admit it's possible to spy through kinect

Dummies

 

[davepoobond]

the real reason they made Kinect mandatory is so they can stick it to the government!

 

[Amir0x]

Right. I'm sure that doesn't describe you. The fact that you found my Twitter feed only proves my point about privacy. Btw, nice exaggeration about my Twitter posts. Yes, I do have a post begging MS to keep the Kinect always connected. The Kinect is what makes the Xbox One unique and I want 100% developer support for it.

Unlike some people, when I read some crazy shit, I like to know the source of it. After the May 21 reveal many posters were revealed to be Microsoft employees or community advocates trying to intentionally stir the pot in a positive direction for MS. I wanted to make sure you weren't that individual. Given that instead i just found a delusional fanboy, you should be happy.

Also, I don't know how anyone could describe me as a fanboy. I have the combine hate of every Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft fanboy on GAF. They can't stand my constant complaining about everything they love

 

[FINALBOSS]

Right. I'm sure that doesn't describe you. The fact that you found my Twitter feed only proves my point about privacy. Btw, nice exaggeration about my Twitter posts. Yes, I do have a post begging MS to keep the Kinect always connected. The Kinect is what makes the Xbox One unique and I want 100% developer support for it.

Did you seriously just delete your Twitter? lol

 

[Darklor01]

sorry English wasn't my strong suit in high school.

It's ok. I know what you're trying to say.

I just think that the simple solution here is, if you don't like it, don't buy it. If you don't care, or want the thing anyway, buy it.

I guess I don't see the point in fighting someone on their point of view of there is a choice which can be made.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

There is this old saying, the way to hell is paved with good intentions.

Nearly every system in a society can be gamed. Economics, law, defense, education, politics...nothing is fool proof. For every several nurses who go and do their job and do right by their patients, there's at least one who speaks of their patient's private matters in the most disrespectful ways possible. We saw similar issues with the TSA, and with the NSA over the wiretaps. A The military isn't a bad entity of itself in regards to a nation, despite a handful of soldiers who have no respect and commit crimes while on their tours.

I'm not saying we should ignore this and believe Microsoft (the exact opposite), but many of these arguments towards PRISM and NSA are focused on the improbable and hypotheticals, if they even remain within the context of the realities revealed by Snowden. If we're just going to focus about the extreme examples of what individuals do or outlier events taking place without current supportive context, than there's no point to having what we consider a society, as everything has the potential to royally screw over everyone in certain circumstances.

 

[davepoobond]

It's ok. I know what you're trying to say.

I just think that the simple solution here is, if you don't like it, don't buy it. If you don't care, or want the thing anyway, buy it.

friends don't let friends buy things that will let the government spy on them

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Ok, to stop this ridiculous console war nonsense, I want to offer my opinion on this matter:

I truly believe that Microsoft's Xbox One is tragically caught between a general shift in gaming. Looking back at their whole DRM fiasco, I think we can all agree that their weird policies would have been so much easier to accept (minus the 24 check, because that was always bulls***t) if their console did not support disk based gaming at all. However, due to the current state of gaming, that would be suicide for their product, as all retailers would side with and heavily push Sony's PS4, for it's acceptance of physical media. The world is not ready to go fully digital yet.

The same thing we can see is occuring with the Kinect 2. Since Microsoft did not have the hardware designing capacity, they were not able to build the Kinect 2 into the console. This was always their goal. And from the Xbox One's Dev's AMA on reddit, we know that far more went into producing the Kinect 2 than the actual console. Just like their digital vision of the future, they didn't want their work to go unnoticed and decided to FORCE everyone to see and appreciate their work, by mandating the Kinect 2's connection. Not to mention the Kinect would provide excellent and lucrative marketing data. Both the DRM situation and the Kinect situation need to be called what they truly are: half measures.


An appropriate path to this digital and kinect based state of gaming, would have been simply to have an "opt-in" feature of their digital policies, while providing heavy incentive in the form of digital deals and perks (full-fledged family sharing, anyone?). In regards to Kinect 2.0, simply packing it into the box, and not mandating it's connection, would be so much easier to stomach, for the more cautious gamers. They could have pushed the seemless Kinect UI navigation method, and convinced people that they would WANT to always have it connected. This would have smoothed the transition and would have built upon the success of the 360 to make an even more accepted console.

All of this would have culminated in Xbox∞ (touting the infinite power of diskless and wireless gaming). The box would no longer have a slot for disk based games, and in it's place would have a Kinect built into the system. This way, it would make complete sense to be unable to disconnect it. The Kinect would no longer be a physical accessory, but an integrated feature. The ∞ would be so unique compared to the competition that it would sell itself. But what do I know, I'm Captain Hindsight.

There you go, Microsoft. That's for free.

/End Rant

 

[LordEssdot]

 

[jayfrontz08]

last thing i gotta say on this i really hope Microsoft has a good look at this thread and see that their console will possibly be damaged more then anything.

 

[Zombie James]

I've been lurking longer than that. This website is heavily Sony-biased. MS didn't fuck anything up. NeoGAF has been overly critical of the Xbox One ever since the reveal.

Come on now...

 

[CrankyKong]

I'm not putting a creepy mandatory camera at the end of my bed no matter what they say.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

...and then fold like a cheap suit

 

[RMI]

I come from reality, where MS' policies have been blown way out of proportion hardcore gamers and the gaming media.

The fact that MS backtracked on their policies doesn't mean they did anything wrong. They're just trying to appeal to more gamers.

Because they would have done the same thing without the INCREDIBLE backlash, RIGHT? Just to appeal to more gamers? Holy Christ on the fucking mountain, do yourself a favor and go back and read their initial DRM policies and region locking scheme. Shit is INSANE.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

Did you seriously just delete your Twitter? lol

It is perfectly reasonable that he wouldn't want sensitive information being seen by unknown parties.

 

[XFistsClenchedX]

This is a pretty naive way of looking at it. Maybe you aren't doing anything "wrong", and you'll be unaffected. On the grander scale, it's still something that's potentially exploitable.

Lots of things can be done potentially. Potentially, Sony could have given the NSA information too. Potentially, the PS4 camera could spy on Americans for Japanese interests. I care less about "potentially" and more about "likely". Is it likely that the NSA would take any interest in me if they saw me through the Kinect camera? Nope. I don't think they would use the camera anyway because all they'd see is people's living rooms and bedrooms. They'd be more interested in the conversations people have so the danger is just as high with Sony as with MS.

So anyone who has any concerns about privacy whatsoever should just remove themselves from modern society? That's foolish. I think we should increase awareness of these issues and encourage development and adoption of alternative technology that doesn't allow for the potential for government or corporate surveillance. In this case, that could be shunning the Xbox One in favor the PS4. In any event, this is a valid reason for people to avoid the product.

The fact of the matter is that there is a lot of monitoring that happens and you can't assume that it is all bad just because it happens. There is valid reason for me to avoid the PS4 as well.

 

[FINALBOSS]

It is perfectly reasonable that he wouldn't want sensitive information being seen by unknown parties.

Ignore

 

[XFistsClenchedX]

Did you seriously just delete your Twitter? lol

No, it's still there. https://twitter.com/XFistsClenchedX

 

[Deleted member 13876]

Ok, not his twitter. Still, stop trying to spin this as a fanboy thing. Do we really need to flaunt our 40+k gamerscores to illustrate this is not about some stupid console war thing but rather about the fundamental human issue that is privacy? It detracts from any meaningful potential conversation.

 

[I2amza]

I come from reality, where MS' policies have been blown way out of proportion hardcore gamers and the gaming media.

The fact that MS backtracked on their policies doesn't mean they did anything wrong. They're just trying to appeal to more gamers.

Yes we, the customers, are stupid sheep blowing everything out of proportion. It was not MS' fault for coming up with bad ideas. It was not MS' fault for not explaining anything properly. You know what? In your world MS probably did, but we were just too dumb to even realize that a corporation like *cough* *cough* MS *cough* *cough, does everything in our best interest.

We should have just bent down for our overlords and kept on grazing grass like the sheep we are.....

/s

 

[Darklor01]

How many people have an Xbox 360, subscribe to XBL, have a Kinect connected to the console, and game online currently? *discuss

 

[Whipped Spartan]

I can't believe there is another one of these threads. Gaf weekend edition I guess. This article is older then the last verge article we had up earlier in the week.

At least read the article, a sample no one in here wants to acknowledge:

"The Fourth Amendment has been found to be really protective of everything that’s inside a person’s home," said Faiza Patel, co-director of the Liberty and National Security program at the Brennan Center for Justice.

 

[lantus]

The need to even acknowledge this is beyond sad for you Microsoft. Definitely don't see myself supporting this company anytime soon.

 

[Bsigg12]

With this even being a possibility, how can you reasonably let it in your own home, unless you give no fucks at all?

And not one fuck was given by me. To some people its a non-issue. Microsoft really fucked the wording here, but its not really something most people should be worried about

 

[XFistsClenchedX]

Yes we, the customers, are stupid sheep blowing everything out of proportion. It was not MS' fault for coming up with bad ideas. It was not MS' fault for not explaining anything properly. You know what? In your world MS probably did, but we were just too dumb to even realize that a corporation like *cough* *cough* MS *cough* *cough, does everything in our best interest.

We should have just bent down for our overlords and kept on grazing grass like the sheep we are.....

/s

MS had good ideas poorly executed. I believe that MS DRM policies were fine because I'm confident that the Xbox One was intended to be digital download only. I think that if MS had stuck to their original plans, people would have been weened off of physical media over the upcoming console generation.

 

[seady]

So the whole "kinect can't be used for that don't be crazy" thing is looking pretty good right now....

WTF.

Before I didn't believe the government spy thing was real and just laughed it off. Now Microsoft pretty much just confirms this stupidity is real.

 

[RMI]

MS had good ideas poorly executed. .

And we're done here.

Ideas ain't worth a thing. Execution is everything.

 

[medze]

And not one fuck was given by me. To some people its a non-issue. Microsoft really fucked the wording here, but its not really something most people should be worried about

I have to strongly disagree with you here. Perhaps to you it is not a big deal but to claim that's its not something most people should be worried about is your opinion. I'd argue most people that are cognizant of what the technology is capable of DO care. We live in a country founded on freedom. These freedoms that are outlined in the Constitution are being blatantly violated by corporations such as Microsoft, Google, and Apple.

It's definitely something most people should be very concerned about.

 

[Kunan]

Absent a new law, we don't believe the government has the legal authority to compel us or any other company that makes products with cameras and microphones to start collecting voice and video data

Yea cause they don't already do this with devices connected to Skype lol

 

[Yagharek]

So by saying they will aggressively challenge any attempt, they are admitting it is plausible and possible that it could be used to monitor people.

Might be the sensible thing to make kinect optional if you really mean it, MS.

 

[Darklor01]

Yea cause they don't already do this with devices connected to Skype lol

Or information collected by Verizon

 

[Takuya]

So by saying they will aggressively challenge any attempt, they are admitting it is plausible and possible that it could be used to monitor people.

Might be the sensible thing to make kinect optional if you really mean it, MS.

Yes.

 

[Kunan]

Or information collected by Verizon

Pretty much. This is as close to flat out confirmation as we're going to get outside of a leak.

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

This is getting to the point where I'm wondering if they can really even use most of this data.

Okay, let's spy on hundreds of millions of people; intercept billions of e-mail; spy on millions of conversations; etc. Yes, they can surely store the data, but when you have Terabytes upon Terabytes of information, how much can you realistically sift through?

 

[I2amza]

MS had good ideas poorly executed. I believe that MS DRM policies were fine because I'm confident that the Xbox One was intended to be digital download only. I think that if MS had stuck to their original plans, people would have been weened off of physical media over the upcoming console generation.

I respectfully disagree with you, and since you already have your opinion set, we will just have to agree to disagree. Either way, we are going off-tangent from the OT.

 

[Darklor01]

This is getting to the point where I'm wondering if they can really even use most of this data.

Okay, let's spy on hundreds of millions of people; intercept billions of e-mail; spy on millions of conversations; etc. Yes, they can surely store the data, but when you have Terabytes upon Terabytes of information, how much can you realistically sift through?

They run programs which sift through data for buzzwords. Companies do this all the time, usually for marketing, and/or security.

 

[P90]

This is getting to the point where I'm wondering if they can really even use most of this data.

Okay, let's spy on hundreds of millions of people; intercept billions of e-mail; spy on millions of conversations; etc. Yes, they can surely store the data, but when you have Terabytes upon Terabytes of information, how much can you realistically sift through?

Google sifts through that amount of data with no trouble. A former Google exec is part of Obama's advisory team. See the connection?

 

[I2amza]

This is getting to the point where I'm wondering if they can really even use most of this data.

Okay, let's spy on hundreds of millions of people; intercept billions of e-mail; spy on millions of conversations; etc. Yes, they can surely store the data, but when you have Terabytes upon Terabytes of information, how much can you realistically sift through?

Just have a bunch of scripts/code to look for specific terms, items, data. They do have super computers there that can crunch through all this data thousands of times faster than our computers.

Once that has been done, they can have a 2nd pass that is more strict, and keep this going until the data set can be checked by humans.

 

[King Tubby]

This is getting to the point where I'm wondering if they can really even use most of this data.

Okay, let's spy on hundreds of millions of people; intercept billions of e-mail; spy on millions of conversations; etc. Yes, they can surely store the data, but when you have Terabytes upon Terabytes of information, how much can you realistically sift through?

Assuming that this actually occurs, it would just be a matter of time before our technology and analysis techniques advance to the point that the in-depth, detailed, and automated processing of such data becomes increasingly plausible and eventually trivial.

They actually intend to store Zettabytes (billions of Terabytes) of data.

If the reports are true...

The NSA's Utah Data Center will be able to handle and process five zettabytes of data, according to William Binney, a former NSA technical director turned whistleblower. Binney's calculation is an estimate. An NSA spokeswoman says the actual data capacity of the center is classified.

"They would have plenty of space with five zettabytes to store at least something on the order of 100 years worth of the worldwide communications, phones and emails and stuff like that," Binney asserts, "and then have plenty of space left over to do any kind of parallel processing to try to break codes."

 

[Deitus]

This is getting to the point where I'm wondering if they can really even use most of this data.

Okay, let's spy on hundreds of millions of people; intercept billions of e-mail; spy on millions of conversations; etc. Yes, they can surely store the data, but when you have Terabytes upon Terabytes of information, how much can you realistically sift through?

They actually intend to store Zettabytes (billions of Terabytes) of data.

 

[Kopite]

Kinect really wasn't worth all the hassle Microsoft.

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

They run programs which sift through data for buzzwords. Companies do this all the time, usually for marketing, and/or security.

And I get that that helps with efficiency. But unless they have a program which differentiates context, intention, intonation of voice, etc... they still have to have someone sift through this stuff. And when buzzwords can be words that are as common as "Evil", that's still millions phone calls, e-mails, etc. to sift through.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Kinect really wasn't worth all the hassle Microsoft.

No kidding. All this bullshit for a few dance games.

 

[Bsigg12]

Kinect really wasn't worth all the hassle Microsoft.

In the game space at least. Its damn awesome tech, but its not right for games.

 

[Darklor01]

And I get that that helps with efficiency. But unless they have a program which differentiates context, intention, intonation of voice, etc... they still have to have someone sift through this stuff. And when buzzwords can be words that are as common as "Evil", that's still millions phone calls, e-mails, etc. to sift through.

I'm sure they do have that though. Voice recognition software translate voice to text quite nicely, which is then sifted through quite nicely. It just depends on what the software is searching for.

 

[I2amza]

And I get that that helps with efficiency. But unless they have a program which differentiates context, intention, intonation of voice, etc... they still have to have someone sift through this stuff. And when buzzwords can be words that are as common as "Evil", that's still millions phone calls, e-mails, etc. to sift through.

And like I said before. They go through multiple passes with each pass adding context and stuff to the parameters.

And for audio they can easily add audio wavelength parameters. Just saying this is not rocket science.

 

[Dark Rider]

MS had good ideas poorly executed.

I think MS had very bad ideas for the consumers that are PERFECTLY executed

Spoiler

(perfectly executed for MS goals that is)

.

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

I guess I'm just naive when it comes to this stuff.