I wouldn't believe any company. As if they would(could) oppose the government.
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Microsoft will "aggressively challenge" any gov't attempt to spy through Kinect
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
I wouldn't believe any company. As if they would(could) oppose the government.
ultrazilla
Gold Member
Bravo! Can't be quoted enough.
jayfrontz08
Banned
Trust me i know xbox fan boys should be ashamed of themselves its a sad for microsoft they would do things so deceving and still have fans some people need to get thier heads checked yes i had a 360 but done turned that in months ago microsoft needs to get fixed big time
ultrazilla
Gold Member
There might be a certain element that is doing this for the reasons you state above but I tend to think it's pretty obvious most are just appalled that Microsoft are actively in bed with the NSA and seemingly have no qualms handing over information or access to servers. I think a few younger fans of Microsoft are mistaking the genuine concern for something it is not.
I love the smell of Astro Turf at 10 PM.
Dark Rider
Member
Kinect CAN be still included in every box so the developers KNOW that every single user of the xbone has one. However, Kinect does NOT need to be plugged in.
jayfrontz08
Banned
All i know is the always on kinect even if they wherent in bed with the nsa would be a red flag for any gamer soon as that came out my mind was made up on not buying the xbox one btw such a terrible name
José Mourinho
cocknose
I agree. The problem (for me) is that the discussion is rarely grounded in reality. You have people who are declaring that they'll never buy MS' console because of the NSA antics, yet the same people can be found in any amount of other threads declaring themselves out for the nth time over something else. They're not adding anything, they're complaining because it suits them. On the other hand you have the ardent defenders who will say anything to defend a company they love.
The point is that between all that rubbish, any worthwhile discussion gets lost.
I appreciate that MS being who they are draw the attention here because it's a gaming forum. But that doesn't change the fact that the Xbox One with always on Kinect isn't an isolated situation. So it baffles me when people will happily wave their hand at Apple and Google allegations, but milk the MS hate for all that it's worth. You simply can't be selective about which devices spying bother you. Either you dislike it, or you don't.
So seeing a bunch of people brush of comments about phones, because you can just turn this and that off -- as if it's that simple for most people, or as if most would even do it -- to then just jump straight down the throat of Kinect. That comes off to me as being rather selective about where one directs their anger.
Just my thoughts, nothing else.
Not sure why you assume everyone opposed to PRISM and other similar operations are ONLY upset at Microsoft. We are talking about Microsoft because this thread is about Microsoft.
I'm well aware that everything I do online can be monitored. That's why I'm cautious about what I say and do online, and how much information I put up about myself there. That's also why I'm not in a rush to purchase a device that is constantly watching my living room and connected to the internet. And no, I don't own a webcam, and if I did you can bet it would be powered off and disconnected when not in use.
Edit: As for malicious intent, I bet that the people who instituted these policies probably had good intentions (you know what they say about good intentions don't you). But can we be certain that every single person that has access to this data would never do anything malicious? Can we know now about the intentions of the NSA 2 or 3 administrations from now when all of this is even more widespread and accepted? The problem isn't just what they are doing with the data now, but what potential harm can be done over long term erosion of our freedoms.
jayfrontz08
Banned
yeah it's messed up...
...but please use periods!
Sorry im little off on th proper way to write a sentance but that how,i am makes me me. Now back to xbox xbox one will probably fail because of this
XFistsClenchedX
Banned
I've been lurking longer than that. This website is heavily Sony-biased. MS didn't fuck anything up. NeoGAF has been overly critical of the Xbox One ever since the reveal.
There is this old saying, the way to hell is paved with good intentions.
Whose this NeoGaf guy?
jayfrontz08
Banned
Something a game console or home computer or even a work computer should never be made into a spy tool for others gain
hahaha what in the actual fuck
"MS didn't fuck anything up." God, where do you people come from?
José Mourinho
cocknose
I mean, lord knows I like me a bit of MS. And lord knows many on NeoGAF like to go over the top on certain issues. But MS did, let's be honest, fuck a thing or two up.
BWJinxing
Member
Have you heard of programs like COINTELPRO? In this day and age, The nsa has its own "Azure" platform. You dont need man power, VOIP, skype, email, data that passes though backbones. The cloud does all the aynalist for them, and then they can retrain data just because, Yottabyte storage. While you may not flat out do anything illegal, its the little details that can add up, make a record for later, showing potential you may execute harm, deflect or etc.
But to stay on topic, I don't want another cell phone device. If you include connect in the box, you can lie to dev and say 2 million consoles, 2 million kinect devices*. The Dev would still know the install base is huge, but their may be some NOT using it, but that does not mean you cant convince them to plug it in for that game session. Its still a win and a best compromise of both worlds.
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
You clearly can't stop the tool from being made, but you can choose not to use it.
WrenchNinja
Member
You have to be fucking delusional to say something like this after they pulled the 180.
For good reason.
Takes something quite magical to get the whole of GAF to agree on something.
this
CambriaRising
Member
Marketing and PR firms, mostly.
krypt0nian
Banned
Hoooleeee-FUCK
This is honestly Dreamcast-Era GAF again.
The Xbox One was too good for NeoGaf, he eventually started to kick and scream, only hating Microsoft and never speaking ill of others. NeoGaf isn't a good person, NeoGaf is ill minded and afraid of letting the world in and watch them from a peripheral camera for the Xbox One.
XFistsClenchedX
Banned
If you could disconnect the Kinect, developers couldn't know how many users would have one because if you could disconnect it, some people would get rid of it.
I won't be loving it because I won't be owning it.
WrenchNinja
Member
You could say this shit about any accessory that comes with the console. Come up with a better excuse.
My god lol
jayfrontz08
Banned
Well what im trying to say is when that device is being made should not be held from the public that hey u might be spied on but of course if that happen then they wouldnt sell anything but that shouldnt give them the right to make ur devices spy tools because hey they feel like it or whatever the reason they do something like that and when the truth comes out try and play it off as not being true
Nevermind guys, I just fond Josh S's twitter and it's basically him masturbating furiously all over Major Nelson and Microsoft. He has a post begging Microsoft to keep Kinect always connected.
We just have a genuine true believer here. A delusional, frothing-at-the-mouth fanboy who is so blinded by his fervor for a company that he refuses to see all the awful shit they've done. There's no convincing someone like that, I think.
krypt0nian
Banned
I have no words. It's the most out there posts I've read on this.
YouEnjoyMySelf
Banned
A+
Deus Ex Machina
Member
There's no way in hell I'm buying an Xbox One.
Krappadizzle
Member
There's no way in hell I'm buying an Xbox One.
Perfect.
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
Punctuation marks are useful. I know what you're saying, but I'm really not getting too deep into this. It's a bit nightmarish in here at the moment.
XFistsClenchedX
Banned
I come from reality, where MS' policies have been blown way out of proportion hardcore gamers and the gaming media.
The fact that MS backtracked on their policies doesn't mean they did anything wrong. They're just trying to appeal to more gamers.
I truly don't understand where this faith people have in these alphabet-soup agencies comes from. If you spent a little time looking through the track record of agencies like this, you'll find fuck-up after fuck-up after fuck-up.
Well, either that, or they're wielded as a tool against domestic political dissent.
krypt0nian
Banned
Please be an Internet character. Please.
WrenchNinja
Member
Do you read what you type?
You mean you come from planet Xbox where Microsoft didn't lie, mislead and outright bullshit about literally every single feature they wanted for Xbox One?
Hey, what do you know, I've bookmarked a post outlining many of their fuck-ups pre-DRM!
Even if you really wanted to give up all your physical property rights as consumer for the promise of NO DISC SWAPPING - the trade off being no more renting, forced through a proprietary used game system that essentially guarantees more expensive pricing, the internet always being required just to play any games because Microsoft automatically assumes you're a fucking pathetic pirate - then that's on you. You're in the extreme minority. But if you're going to pretend like they even BEGAN to articulate even the most basic benefits of their supposed strategy that you love so much, you're more delusional than even your twitter account would imply.
poe's law, mang.
jayfrontz08
Banned
sorry English wasn't my strong suit in high school.
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
With this even being a possibility, how can you reasonably let it in your own home, unless you give no fucks at all?
King Tubby
Member
This is a poor argument on many fronts. For example, generic laptops, mics, and headsets aren't necessarily connected to the internet at any point in their existence, and in the case of laptops it is trivial to disable the webcam at any time. Moreover, the software can be examined and modified to suit a user's privacy concerns. Even when it comes to email and internet services, those of us who are savvy and concerned about these matters have options to safeguard the privacy of our communications.
Smartphones are another matter entirely. There are many people who have valid privacy concerns over the cameras and microphones in smartphones, but they're such an improvement over regular phones that many people consider the trade-off to be worth it and there aren't really mainstream devices on the market that exist without those cameras. The market has spoken loudly and clearly that cameras on these devices are a priority for consumers, so companies have moved in that direction. After all, privacy concerns are not the only concerns when considering a product or service, but they are still important, and with the recent NSA revelations privacy is becoming of increasing concern to the public.
However, even if your point were well-founded, the argument that everyone in this thread is a hypocrite for being concerned about this product, and not that one is still a bad one. Just because some of us are willing to make some concessions when it comes to private corporate/governmental access to our information, doesn't mean those same people will or should be okay with yet another avenue of information gathering, yet more data that can be harvested by whoever it is that is harvesting. There's a line for everyone. In the end, it's the market that will decide whether this is acceptable or not. (God help us if Google Glass blows up.)
The truth is that Microsoft's intent doesn't even really matter. If the hardware is capable of recording and transmitting data to Microsoft, and the government is capable of compelling Microsoft to release this data, the simple fact is that this is a device that is introducing yet another avenue of surveillance for the government to pursue.
The concerns aren't just about what might be done today or tomorrow. What'll happen 10 years from now, 20 years from now as hardware becomes more powerful and able to collect, transmit and process even more data? What about the next time the USA is attacked and public sentiment shifts back towards supporting increasing government access to this information? The whole idea of checks and balances and limiting the power of government is based on the fact that the powers granted to an official will eventually be abused by the first person unscrupulous enough to do so. This same principle applies here. We as a society have to think about these matters more cynically than we have in the past, especially given how our technological capacity continues to grow.
This is a pretty naive way of looking at it. Maybe you aren't doing anything "wrong", and you'll be unaffected. On the grander scale, it's still something that's potentially exploitable.
So anyone who has any concerns about privacy whatsoever should just remove themselves from modern society? That's foolish. I think we should increase awareness of these issues and encourage development and adoption of alternative technology that doesn't allow for the potential for government or corporate surveillance. In this case, that could be shunning the Xbox One in favor the PS4. In any event, this is a valid reason for people to avoid the product.
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