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Microsoft will "aggressively challenge" any gov't attempt to spy through Kinect

KoopaTheCasual

Junior Member
the definition of paranoia.

I don't think that word means what you think it means...

Just because you're too lazy to protect your privacy, doesn't make anyone else paranoid. Heck, even I am too lazy to be bothered taping up all my devices, because I don't think I have anything to hide, but I'm not going to condescend on people, who have completely justifiable fears, especially when we have new evidence of breaches in privacy, daily. Your argument is beyond childish, and borders nonsensical.
 
and so how long will it take for them to reverse on this policy too?

forget it microsoft, you don't keep your word. you lost the trust of the gaming community. go home.
 

Chumpion

Member
"Absent a new law, we don't believe the government has the legal authority to compel us or any other company that makes products with cameras and microphones to start collecting voice and video data," reads a comment mailed to the Verge. "And we'd aggressively challenge in court any attempts to try and force us to do so."

LOL @ the wording. They say they will fight any attempts to force them to hand out data. But note that they DON'T promise they won't just voluntarily give it away!
 

Coins

Banned
I'm shocked that their response is along the lines of "We will fight it" instead of "Using Kinect to spy is an outlandish idea based on paranoia."

It sounds like they expect the request?

Wtf
 

Oersted

Member
Is it just me. Or have people suddenly started caring about privacy more because they hate the Xbox one? I bet everyone has a Facebook account and a front facing camera on there mobile phone.

Call us when you care about your privacy.

Has there? Maybe i just haven't looked into it that much. But that is much worse than the Kinect. Its a surveillance device. Isn't it?

Will the Google Glasses be the starting point because those are from another company?
 

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
Google's Glass as well. People seem to be eating that up. But that thing is the NSA's dream. Yet there hasn't nearly been as much noise about that. Even though it can invade other peoples privacy without you knowing
Not true. Do a Bing search for the term "glasshole" and let me know how many hits come up in regards to Google Glass.
 

pixlexic

Banned
Um... ok.

Kinect is always on. laptop cameras are not, designed not to be, and often have lights on when they are on. They can be hacked in some cases, and in most of those physical access to the computer is needed.

As opposed to 'yes you can use the kinect to spy on ___' if the government asks and has the right forms.

And its not only governments scarily.

You have to have an entrance.. in the pc cases its a trojan. How are you going to get a trojan onto a platform with a walled network?
 

TheContact

Member
I'm shocked that their response is along the lines of "We will fight it" instead of "Using Kinect to spy is an outlandish idea based on paranoia."

It sounds like they expect the request?

Wtf

Because as the govt has shown is with google, fb, etc.. They don't seem to have a problem with requesting these types of companies to divulge personal information about it's users. It's not like this is a conspiracy--this happened


You have to have an entrance.. in the pc cases its a trojan. How are you going to get a trojan onto a platform with a walled network?

You have a lot to learn my friend. It's possible in more ways than you expect
 

eznark

Banned
Because as the govt has shown is with google, fb, etc.. They don't seem to have a problem with requesting these types of companies to divulge personal information about it's users. It's not like this is a conspiracy--this is happening regularly

Fixed for clarification.
 

harSon

Banned
Not true. Do a Bing search for the term "glasshole" and let me know how many hits come up in regards to Google Glass.

That's entirely different then suggesting that Google Glass is going to work in lockstep with government institutions to relay unlimited audio/video information of unsuspecting individuals.
 

markot

Banned
But who is to say your cell phone isn't actually doing these things? Microsoft says something and everybody immediately calls bullshit. Apple or somebody else says something and everybody goes along.

My point is why the conspiracy against Microsoft but nobody else? They're all guilty of feeding data to the NSA.

They feed access to data they have access to. Kinect gives them access to alot more data.

They cant turn on your phone or camera on your phone to listen to you when you are not using it. The kinect listens all the time, and watches whenever its turned on.

If my phone was 'always listening' you would have a point. But its not. If my camera was always on, you would have a point. But theyre not, and they cant be simply turned on by the operator.

They can listen to my phone calls, but they can do that to my landline calls. You can even turn the gps off all the time and stop location services.

Microsoft has a camera and listening device on all the time in your living room. By design. Cameras and laptops dont do that, and they cant be made to do that simply. And the government cant ask them to give access to a camera or what not, only services available, so if you use skype, they can gain access through that, or if you make calls.

But if someone is always on, they can always listen and hear, when a service is designed to do that.

Its not tin foil hat if they expressly state 'but we will fight it!'. It means its confimed its possible.
 

wildfire

Banned
so from that i got..

you have to have a computer virus and people are caming in theirs tubs.. lol

that reads like enquire article. it even says the experts say its not wide spread.

I stand by the tin foil hat pic.


And I thought you were smarter than this. *exasperated*
 

erzrb3zr

Banned
Gotta get those tax kick-backs.




LOL

Because one of those statements will come off as arrogant as fuck. The other is more likely to happen. The most they can promise is to fight it. No company in the US can flat out deny a court order.

What string of words would be sufficient enough?
 

Freki

Member
Because one of those statements will come off as arrogant as fuck. The other is more likely to happen. The most they can promise is to fight it. No company in the US can flat out deny a court order.

What string of words would be sufficient enough
?

"We are happy to inform you that the Kinect 2.0 is no longer required to be plugged into the Xbox One in order for it to function."
 

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
That's entirely different then suggesting that Google Glass is going to work in lockstep with government institutions to relay unlimited audio/video information of unsuspecting individuals.
The poster was referring to the supposed lack of Sturm and drang related to GG in comparison to the Kinect 2.

When one of my kids tries to deflect an incoming shitstorm from Daddy for something he did by pointing to his brothers and saying "hey look! He did this too!"...that doesn't work out in his favor. Ever.
 

FINALBOSS

Banned
That's entirely different then suggesting that Google Glass is going to work in lockstep with government institutions to relay unlimited audio/video information of unsuspecting individuals.

How about you guys stop deflecting from Microsoft onto the other companies in the PRISM scandal?

We all know about them. This is a video gaming forum, so obviously Microsoft is going to get a lot more air-time.

If you want to go hear shit-talk about the others in the PRISM scandal, hit up a tech forum or something.

I swear sometime you guys act like we're talking bad about your mother or something.


LOL. Yeah I knew about that one. I love it.
 

harSon

Banned
How about you guys stop deflecting from Microsoft onto the other companies in the PRISM scandal?

We all know about them. This is a video gaming forum, so obviously Microsoft is going to get a lot more air-time.

If you want to go hear shit-talk about the others in the PRISM scandal, hit up a tech forum or something.

I swear sometime you guys act like we're talking bad about your mother or something.

And sometimes I swear people project what they want to see in a user's posts. I wasn't arguing that Google was unfairly being left out in the criticism, my post was aimed towards what I quoted and only what I quoted.
 

FINALBOSS

Banned
Forget about Kinect for a second in this Kinect thread. WHAT ABOUT THAT OTHER DEVICE.

There my mission is accomplished.

Lol.

Guys please talk about cellphones!

And sometimes I swear people project what they want to see in a user's posts. I wasn't arguing that Google was unfairly being left out in the criticism, my post was aimed towards what I quoted and only what I quoted.

I probably should have included that in another posts because it wasn't aimed at you, more of a generalized statement in regards to the people defending this stuff or throwing out tinfoil hat posts...aka pixlecic or whatever his name is.
 

Vestal

Gold Member
Not true. Do a Bing search for the term "glasshole" and let me know how many hits come up in regards to Google Glass.

absolutely and with the proliferation of stuff like Google glass and Kinect in the not so distant future, this whole conversation will reach a tipping point.

Like I stated earlier its a scary world we live and moving towards an even scarier world in regards to privacy since consumers want devices more connected than ever. Real legislation will have to be made to limit the governments ability to collect data through these kind of devices.

there are some legitimate reasons why these devices could be used to solve a crime, or prevent loss of life. However there needs to be limits on the how and why, which is a very difficult discussion to have, one which our Government will likely not want to have unless something drastic happens.
 

FINALBOSS

Banned
absolutely and with the proliferation of stuff like Google glass and Kinect in the not so distant future, this whole conversation will reach a tipping point.

Like I stated earlier its a scary world we live and moving towards an even scarier world in regards to privacy since consumers want devices more connected than ever. Real legislation will have to be made to limit the governments ability to collect data through these kind of devices.

there are some legitimate reasons why these devices could be used to solve a crime, or prevent loss of life. However there needs to be limits on the how and why, which is a very difficult discussion to have, one which our Government will likely not want to have unless something drastic happens.

As I said in a previous post, I don't care if someone is burying a body under the floor-boards in their living room--no spying in the home.


And this press release would have been a PERFECT time to announce that you could cover up your Kinect camera.
 

PaNaMa

Banned
Obligatory : "We have reason to believe XCr3aMedInY0MomX is a terrorist. Patriot act, national security blah blah You are hereby ordered to turn on his Kinect and hit record or you are an accessory"
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
When the only way you can defend this is a variation on "Oh Look! Other companies can do it, you have other devices that can do it too" you are losing the argument, badly.

Oh, and the "Quit Picking On MS" is pathetic at this point too. This is a very legit concern.

Also, the phone argument is moot (well, at least for Android), aside from not having a preferred view all the time like the Kinect, Android has open source options for most phone models. Would be damn obvious if there is a backdoor in the android code, can't say the same for walled gardens like IOS and X180. Also for reference, google apps are not open source, but they do run on an open source platform.

Give MS a break they have no choice but to comply with the govt

It's quite simple for them to allow you to not use the Kinnect, but MS is hellbent on forcing everybody to use it and gather data from it. That IS the fault of MS. 100%.
 

FINALBOSS

Banned
Obligatory : "We have reason to believe XCr3aMedInY0MomX is a terrorist. Patriot act, national security blah blah You are hereby ordered to turn on his Kinect and hit record or you are an accessory"

More like: "Internet user said 'I'm gonna kill you' in a multiplayer session of Call of Duty. A snapshot obtained via his Kinect showed a gun-cabinet in his room. Notifying the police"
 
the definition of paranoia.
I know, right? I bet you these freaks also lock their doors and windows and cars. You can tell the true weirdo paranoiacs easy - they use blinds and curtains too.

What are you people afraid of?

Give MS a break they have no choice but to comply with the govt
They don't have to require a powered on Kinect for their device to function. But since they seem to want that requirement I'd advise them to showcase some simple consumer protections of a physical nature.
 

medze

Member
Give MS a break they have no choice but to comply with the govt

It was their choice to create a product that facilitates surveillance. It was their choice to refuse to allow us to turn it off.

Tell me why we should give them a break when they've proven they will collect our private data and most likely hand it over in the blink of an eye.
 
I create a case for my Kinect 2, preferably made out of a egg carton.

I could've sworn I've seen you banned before as another junior account for Microsoft astroturfing during E3.

Is this yet another alt for a previously banned account or am I seeing things?

On topic:-

Kinect's not gonna be in my living room. End of discussion.


EDIT:- Heh. Someone's been very sneaky around these parts. Dupe account alert!

Can you spot the difference between this one and this one?
 

harSon

Banned
Question. For people whose only barrier at the moment to purchasing an XB1 is the fact that Kinect must be plugged in for functionality, and plan to purchase a Playstation 4 but are bothered by the fact that the light bar cannot be turned off, why is putting tape on the light bar an acceptable means of rectifying the issue but applying the same logic to the XB1's Kinect an insurmountable obstacle? I mean, if you really want an XB1 and your only issue at this point is the Kinect requirement, but you firmly believe that Microsoft is lying when it says that A) the Kinect will not be spying on you and B) the Kinect can be turned off through the software, why not simply put the Kinect in a position where it cannot do so? It's definitely an inconvenience, but like the Playstation 4 controller fix, it's a one time inconvenience.

I suppose I can understand principle, although it's a bit misguided in this capacity considering the government mandate, but if you truly want to play the XB1's games, I don't understand the logic in not purchasing it for such an easily fixed reason.
 

MormaPope

Banned
Anyone who is calling us paranoid...please tell us why Kinect needs to be plugged in.

I've asked MS fans so many times to give me a legitimate reason--yet they can't come up with one.

That's so they can drive up the price, notice how there's no variation with bundles or models. Kinect 2.0 probably doesn't cost that much to manufacture, its a easy justification on Microsoft's part of why the console costs $499. Hell, making it required means consumers have to dish out cash for a Kinect just so the Xbone can work, its price hiking or gouging on a new level.

The Prism stuff and data collecting is a side pot, not necessarily the main reason behind Kinect 2.0 being required.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Question. For people whose only barrier at the moment to purchasing an XB1 is the fact that Kinect must be plugged in for functionality, and plan to purchase a Playstation 4 but are bothered by the fact that the light bar cannot be turned off, why is putting tape on the light bar an acceptable means of rectifying the issue but applying the same logic to the XB1's Kinect an insurmountable obstacle? I mean, if you really want an XB1 and your only issue at this point is the Kinect requirement, but you firmly believe that Microsoft is lying when it says that A) the Kinect will not be spying on you and B) the Kinect can be turned off through the software, why not simply put the Kinect in a position where it cannot do so? It's definitely an inconvenience, but like the Playstation 4 controller fix, it's a one time inconvenience.

I suppose I can understand principle, although it's a bit misguided in this capacity considering the government mandate, but if you truly want to play the XB1's games, I don't understand the logic in not purchasing it for such an easily fixed reason.

How is tape helping the microphone issue?
 
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