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[ssringo]

The game creators that deserve an extra $10 or $20 are almost never the ones charging $60+ for their game.

 

[March Climber]

Didn’t some posters here say they would have paid up to 100 for Elden Ring if they could?

 

[THE DUCK]

No, $70 is lots. Maybe if you bought the game on sale.

 

[Arsic]

I don’t like tipping for food because the establishment should pay the people what they’re fucking worth, and you have the balls to come out here to say I should be tipping when a game is good? How about just do the fucking job right and you’ll actually get us to buy the games day one or week one because they’re a full fucking product worth the fucking dollars you’re asking for to begin with.

This guy can go fuck himself off bridge and die for all I care.

 

[LordBlodgett]

It's called buying extra content. I ain't going to tip people just because I like the thing they made. Tips are supposed to be for good SERVICE. Where does it end? Should I tip my car manufacturer? Hollywood studios? The poor gal who made my clothing?

 

[LRKD]

Tips shouldn't exist period. Not in gaming, not in art, not in food service.

 

[ZVWQP-9B8TM-VH9CT]

Do not be confused as to why you're no longer being catered to SP gamers.

We are being catered though. There are tons of SP games, because they know they cant compete this wild live service nonsense.

 

[Xtib81]

I hate that tipping culture. Thank god I'm not in the US. I never leave a tip at the restaurant.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

We are being catered though. There are tons of SP games, because they know they cant compete this wild live service nonsense.

When I say "catered to" I mean you're no longer the focal point for these large companies like you were pre 2016 - 2018.

As a MP centric gamer, it baffles me how none of y'all want to think of (real) solutions to the current problem effecting AAA SP.

 

[Punished Miku]

Tips shouldn't exist period. Not in gaming, not in art, not in food service.

Its basically bribes. What do you call it when you tip police officers? This is literally how societies fall apart. Tipping should be abolished. Look at societies where you have to "tip" to get anything done. A lot of them are almost failed states.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I'm no fan of the sophomoric mud slinging either but that seems par for the course in online discourse. I guess I partake in it to tone match more than anything. I'd much prefer we embrace the ability to disagree without calling others "snake oil salesmen", for example.

As far as your last point, I appreciate your presence here. There's roughly a dozen NeoGAF members that don't seem insane to me and you're one of them. Losing you would be a costly percentage drop.

I appreciate the kind words and my comment was in general and not directed at any in particular, the offenders know who they are

I am 100% agree we should be able to speak out minds and be able to disagree about things just some are not very civil at times

Heck even though Ybarra is a friend of mine I think he is off his meds with his statement personally but I don't always agree with things my friends say

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I hate that tipping culture. Thank god I'm not in the US. I never leave a tip at the restaurant.

I don’t know which countries are tip happy, but Canada and US act the same for tipping.

For those of you who don’t live in places where tipping is a norm, you got some jobs where everyone is expected to tip or else you get frowned upon being a cheapskate…. Sit down restaurants, taxi, food delivery etc…. And then you get attitude back like …. “If you can’t afford to tip them don’t eat here asshole”. I guarantee in any tip thread you’ll get responses like that from waiters.

But starting I’d say about 20 years ago it extended to stores and food joints adding tip jars at the counter. So if you gas up your car and need to pay or buy something at the counter there will a tip jar.

Then it extended to credit card and debit card payments where if you buy McDonald’s or pick up a pizza yourself, the payment tool will ask for a tip option too ($ or %) when it was only a norm for restaurants.

The tip option has increased too. They have option like 10, 12, 15% but now it’s more like 15, 18, 20%. There was one place I forget whose preset tip amount were 22, 25, 28%.

 

[Mobilemofo]

They still spit in your food anyway

And stir your drinks with their cocks. The bastards. Always check the cheese on your food

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Its basically bribes. What do you call it when you tip police officers? This is literally how societies fall apart. Tipping should be abolished. Look at societies where you have to "tip" to get anything done. A lot of them are almost failed states.

Reminder: A tip is NOT a bribe. Words have specific definitions y'all.

 

[yet_another_alt]

Its basically bribes. What do you call it when you tip police officers? This is literally how societies fall apart. Tipping should be abolished. Look at societies where you have to "tip" to get anything done. A lot of them are almost failed states.

Frankly, I'm amazed at how the majority of the US has just been brainwashed to think that tipping is a good practice. The work to not just make it acceptable but actually demanded is a masterful display of social manipulation.

 

[ZVWQP-9B8TM-VH9CT]

When I say "catered to" I mean you're no longer the focal point for these large companies like you were pre 2016 - 2018.

As a MP centric gamer, it baffles me how none of y'all want to think of (real) solutions to the current problem effecting AAA SP.

We get tons of SP games, more than ever. I don't get why you think otherwise.

 

[LRKD]

Reminder: A tip is NOT a bribe. Words have specific definitions y'all.

I dunno, in America I'd bet it is effectively a bribe, a bribe to stop your doordasher or cook or whatever from spitting in your food

 

[Mobilemofo]

They need to get the cost of making a game under control. It's mental. Some sort of standardisation. Tipping isn't a gaming industry thing. Mostly everyone gets paid well. I would support indies with small bits here and there should there titles be my bag. Not big ass Devs tho. They can get bent.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I dunno, in America I'd bet it is effectively a bribe, a bribe to stop your doordasher or cook or whatever from spitting in your food

I've been ripping (in America) my entire life. You typically tip AFTER a service has been rendered and is optional. A bribe occurs BEFORE the service is rendered and is required.

Big difference.

 

[Arsic]

When I say "catered to" I mean you're no longer the focal point for these large companies like you were pre 2016 - 2018.

As a MP centric gamer, it baffles me how none of y'all want to think of (real) solutions to the current problem effecting AAA SP.

What problems?

They hire way too many worthless employees or token agenda stamp employees.

Have horrible mismanagement and over spend, especially on worthless twitch promotion of products via marketing.

Then launch products half assed, half baked, agenda pushing crap.

Then wonder why games like Elden Ring or BG3 go sell a truck ton. So it’s my problem to pay them more? No . No it isn’t.

I’d sooner watch AAA gaming or all of it burn down then keep throwing wasted money they want but don’t spend intelligently at the problem.

 

[Topher]

Has nothing to do with me needing thicker skin and if someone wants to agree with Mike its cool thats up to them

My point is we have several accounts here that are constantly allowed to harass the other camp and its written off as jokes or whatever, its just old and tiresome

Certain sites have lost a lot of appeal to be apart of because of this and close to be removed from my favorites tab or frequented sites (which I know no one cares)

What's this about again? Seems like the thread has taken a wrong turn somewhere along the way.

Oh.....I probably don't see it because I have men in boxes on ignore.

 

[Danjin44]

Men_in_Boxes I'm really starting to believe you just here to convince people to give more money to corporation and CEOs.

You do you, give them money as much you want to them, buy their crap loot boxes as much you want until you satisfied.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

American tipping culture must be stopped.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

What problems?

They hire way too many worthless employees or token agenda stamp employees.

Have horrible mismanagement and over spend, especially on worthless twitch promotion of products via marketing.

Then launch products half assed, half baked, agenda pushing crap.

Then wonder why games like Elden Ring or BG3 go sell a truck ton. So it’s my problem to pay them more? No . No it isn’t.

I’d sooner watch AAA gaming or all of it burn down then keep throwing wasted money they want but don’t spend intelligently at the problem.

I think what Ybarra is doing here is just brainstorming ideas that would support the SP industry.

If you want more AAA SP games (maybe you don't) then you have to start coming up with ideas that help fund these sorts of games. That market has been capped for a while.

Tipping at the end of a game you enjoy does seem a little crazy but at least he's getting the conversation going in the right direction.

Also, saying "Just make a BG3 or Elden Ring caliber game" isn't a real suggestion.

 

[Xtib81]

I don’t know which countries are tip happy, but Canada and US act the same for tipping.

For those of you who don’t live in places where tipping is a norm, you got some jobs where everyone is expected to tip or else you get frowned upon being a cheapskate…. Sit down restaurants, taxi, food delivery etc…. And then you get attitude back like …. “If you can’t afford to tip them don’t eat here asshole”. I guarantee in any tip thread you’ll get responses like that from waiters.

But starting I’d say about 20 years ago it extended to stores and food joints adding tip jars at the counter. So if you gas up your car and need to pay or buy something at the counter there will a tip jar.

Then it extended to credit card and debit card payments where if you buy McDonald’s or pick up a pizza yourself, the payment tool will ask for a tip option too ($ or %) when it was only a norm for restaurants.

The tip option has increased too. They have option like 10, 12, 15% but now it’s more like 15, 18, 20%. There was one place I forget whose preset tip amount were 22, 25, 28%.

That sounds absolutely surreal lmao. Fortunately, Europe has been spared so far.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

American tipping culture must be stopped.

I love restaurant tipping mentality.

You should tip if the service is good even if the food sucks and the place is dirty.

But if the service sucks and food is good and it’s a clean place, you should tip because… well you enjoyed the food didn’t you?

And if everything sucks you should tip because if you can afford to eat out you can afford to tip, so don’t be a cheapass and go with the flow and tip.

 

[Varteras]

Or have the balls to charge more than $70 for your game upfront if you think it's worth it.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

That sounds absolutely surreal lmao. Fortunately, Europe has been spared so far.

The the crazy thing about the place with huge preset tips is that I never eat at fancy places. So it’s not like it’s some fine dining restaurant. It would had been a typical pub or family restaurant where I bought a burger with fries or quesadillas or something.

 

[bender]

Didn’t some posters here say they would have paid up to 100 for Elden Ring if they could?

I've argued that games should be more expensive and that I wouldn't mind paying more for games so long as they get rid of the tactic of pre-order bonuses, digital deluxe (and other special editions) that contain in-game content, and stop with MTX in single player games. The one thing I appreciate about FromSoftware games is that they don't engage in these practices and the closest they've come is with the Elden Ring expansion offering a gesture unlock early. Their special editions are $10 more than the base game and always come with a soundtrack and artbook which are easily ignored as there is no FOMO if you decide to wait for a sale.

Do I want to pay more for their games? Of course not. But would I? Without hesitation.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Men_in_Boxes I'm really starting to believe you just here to convince people to give more money to corporation and CEOs.

You do you, give them money as much you want to them, buy their crap loot boxes as much you want until you satisfied.

It's not as personal as you think. No one cares about making rich people richer.

It's about theorizing on how to make the soil more nutrient dense to encourage the more planting of seeds.

 

[Arsic]

I think what Ybarra is doing here is just brainstorming ideas that would support the SP industry.

If you want more AAA SP games (maybe you don't) then you have to start coming up with ideas that help fund these sorts of games. That market has been capped for a while.

Tipping at the end of a game you enjoy does seem a little crazy but at least he's getting the conversation going in the right direction.

Also, saying "Just make a BG3 or Elden Ring caliber game" isn't a real suggestion.

Yes it is a suggestion. Make good games.

I learned this year that gamers actually don’t care about performance or issues— helldivers 2 sold a fuck ton and kept its player base through a horrible launch and issues still now.

This isn’t some insane concept— work with a smaller, passionate team, and a focused directive with good management to create a good product.

From software isn’t a massive team and does multiple projects at once. Their performance is so so, and graphics are alright.

As for “tipping” folks do that already with collectors editions and digital deluxes.

If the industry is in SUCH a hurt to create good titles, going back to the consumer to ask for more money isn’t the solution.

You’re thinking retards like Phil are smart who want to throw money at problems instead of fixing it. The man refused to keep his key IPs of AAA quality and putting them out regularly. He burned the value of Xbox down to the ground.

I assure you the answer is very fucking simple: make better games with smaller teams, and less insane marketing spend.

I don’t have time to write 900 paragraphs to you on examples, and analogies, etc because this isn’t a complicated thing to understand and go “yeah you’re right” to. You just want people to accept a full blown retard notion that giving developers and publishers more $ is the solution.

You wouldn’t dare stop sucking corporate dick for a second to consider :
-Give less money to the folks at the top
-Spend less on marketing and hiring Twitch clowns like Asmon to play your game
-Stop hiring worthless roles like a social media community manager team
-Don’t spend 6 years chasing unreal engine 5 wild graphics

You’re the only person on this site who derails a thread into oblivion and idk which staff member is your cousin or some shit but it’s insane. Your hiding behind “my opinion” and “debate like adults” act is old.

You can be the first and hopefully only person I add to ignore on here. You’re out of your mind and have got to be some kind of plant from a company to try to convince people to spend more $ to retards who didn’t deserve it to begin with.

 

[Danjin44]

It's not as personal as you think. No one cares about making rich people richer.

It's about theorizing on how to make the soil more nutrient dense to encourage the more planting of seeds.

So far all your ideas is about poisoning "soil" as much as possible.....At least I'm thankful that someone like you not in charge, you have made entire gaming industry absolutely miserable.

I support the devs old fashion way, buy their game if its good and thats only way they will get my money.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

I would accept Mr Ybarra's suggestion if at the end of the umpteenth void open world with gobling-looking characters, boring game loop and trash writing, I'd have the option to get a refund of 10-20 USD.

Since that's not on the menu, my only answer is fuck off, shameless cunt.

 

[Alexios]

Various indie games have supported dlc (that may or may not have anything real attached to it) for this purpose but obviously noone in their right mind would tip Blizzard or Sony or Nintendo or whatever, lol. As if they tip the devs that made it happen day after day after day.

He can get most company addresses and send them any money he wants though (if not just ask for a bank account to deposit to from their accounting department or whatever) if he really cares that much.

 

[darrylgorn]

 

[DragonNCM]

Buying CE of games is my main way of showing support for certain devs.

Ironically I bought the CE of Diablo 4 and didn't feel I got my moneys worth from that and in no way would tip his old company for that effort (and told him as much)

You didn't support well my friend, you didn't buy spectral steed & colorful portals

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

The reason why the industry is headed in the direction it is, is because of the attitude in this very thread.

When SP gamers are asked to spend more money they riot.

MP gamers like spending $20 dollars on a new skin.

Do not be confused as to why you're no longer being catered to SP gamers.

 

[reinking]

I think what Ybarra is doing here is just brainstorming ideas that would support the SP industry.

Fair.

If you want more AAA SP games (maybe you don't) then you have to start coming up with ideas that help fund these sorts of games. That market has been capped for a while.

That is what things like kickstarter is for.

Tipping at the end of a game you enjoy does seem a little crazy but at least he's getting the conversation going in the right direction.

Who does the "tip" go to? If there is a way for me to tip an artist, writer or someone I deem went above and beyond my expectations, cool I guess. If you are asking me to "tip" the corporate overlords that sometimes even abuse the people that are grinding daily, that's a no dawg.

My real problem here is that we are blurring the lines of tipping for a service vs tipping for a product. I don't typically tip Honda if I buy a new car. So, I guess my concern is the devaluation of games as a product. People are starting to think of games as a service, even if they are actually purchased. I miss the days when I gave a company a set amount of money and they gave me the product I wanted. That was it, the deal was done.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Yes it is a suggestion. Make good games.

It's a lame suggestion.

Everyone making these failed AAA SP games is trying to make a good game. I can assure you that professionals spending 6 years of their lives working on a project want critics and players to love it. It's a suggestion I would expect an 8 year old kid to make because he's not yet at the age of reason.

So far all your ideas is about poisoning "soil" as much as possible.....At least I'm thankful that someone like you not in charge, you have made made entire gaming industry absolutely miserable.

I support the devs old fashion way, buy their game if its good and thats only way they will get my money.

The problem is there's not enough of you. You know this.

There's been a huge swatch of AAA SP games that sell in the 300k to 7 million unit range and, for those games, the math isn't adding up for the financiers.

People always want bigger and better games but that costs more. If sales are capped then you're not going to get those games for very long.

You either find more people to spend $70 dollars or you ask your limited pool of players to spend more.

There's no other way.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Who does the "tip" go to?

That's not really important. What is important is that SP games recieve more revenue in order to fund more expensive projects. If that doesn't happen, new games don't get funded.

The tipping idea is a great way to introduce "Pay $5.00 for NG+ at the end of your first completion".

My real problem here is that we are blurring the lines of tipping for a service vs tipping for a product. I don't typically tip Honda if I buy a new car. So, I guess my concern is the devaluation of games as a product. People are starting to think of games as a service, even if they are actually purchased. I miss the days when I gave a company a set amount of money and they gave me the product I wanted. That was it, the deal was done.

You're still getting that but more and more you're going to be forced in the AA and indie realm. You're rigid frame of thinking can't support the more expensive AAA games anymore.

Look at it like bodybuilding. The more muscle you put on, the more calories you're going to need to injest. A 250lb bodybuilder can't consume the same amount of calories he did at 180lbs. At some point, you got to start taking supplements.

 

[reinking]

That's not really important. What is important is that SP games recieve more revenue in order to fund more expensive projects. If that doesn't happen, new games don't get funded.

The tipping idea is a great way to introduce "Pay $5.00 for NG+ at the end of your first completion".

THAT IS NOT A TIP!!!! That is paying for content.

 

[Danjin44]

It's a lame suggestion.

Everyone making these failed AAA SP games is trying to make a good game. I can assure you that professionals spending 6 years of their lives working on a project want critics and players to love it. It's a suggestion I would expect an 8 year old kid to make because he's not yet at the age of reason.


The problem is there's not enough of you. You know this.

There's been a huge swatch of AAA SP games that sell in the 300k to 7 million unit range and, for those games, the math isn't adding up for the financiers.

People always want bigger and better games but that costs more. If sales are capped then you're not going to get those games for very long.

You either find more people to spend $70 dollars or you ask your limited pool of players to spend more.

There's no other way.

I dont need devs spend huge amount money to make good games, for example do you I need celebrity in games?....I do not. Do I need most high tech graphics enjoy games?....I do not.

Armored Core VI didn't have high tech graphics or celebrities and yet it was fantastic game and reasonably sold well.

Overspending in game development is the issue. It also become big problem in Hollywood movies, which Godzilla Minus One showed you dont need stupid amount of budget to make good movie.

 

[pqueue]

not only no.

but hell no.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

THAT IS NOT A TIP!!!! That is paying for content.

True, but the conversation naturally makes the later more palatable.

 

[LRKD]

I've been ripping (in America) my entire life. You typically tip AFTER a service has been rendered and is optional. A bribe occurs BEFORE the service is rendered and is required.

Big difference.

Perhaps, but if you were a regular at a restaurant, and regularly didn't tip, they would remember you.

Also, it has changed drastically in the past 4 years, anywhere that isn't a sit-down restaurant will ask for tip up front along with payment. Fastfood, drinks, doordash ect.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Ideas like that make me puke.

Thank god that even guys from the gacha scene understand that's outrageous and they don't charge extra money after the release price

‘Stellar Blade’ Director Rejects Microtransactions, Promises Game “Will Not Require Players To Spend Any Additional Money Beyond What They Paid For The Package”

'Stellar Blade' director Hyung-Tae Kim has promised that, save for one specific type of instance, the game will feature no microtransactions.

boundingintocomics.com

 

[Mr Reasonable]

I love restaurant tipping mentality.

You should tip if the service is good even if the food sucks and the place is dirty.

But if the service sucks and food is good and it’s a clean place, you should tip because… well you enjoyed the food didn’t you?

And if everything sucks you should tip because if you can afford to eat out you can afford to tip, so don’t be a cheapass and go with the flow and tip.

Haha, exactly.

I saw a video of a just eat/door dash/deliveroo bike rider who went the extra mile for a customer whose order was missing something - so he went back and got it for them and was so pleasant and cheery they tipped him more than the bill.

So, be ready to tip an extraordinary amount because things out of your control get rectified.

Edit: no idea why I watched it either.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I dont need devs spend huge amount money to make good games, for example do you I need celebrity in games?....I do not. Do I need most high tech graphics enjoy games?....I do not.

Then the Mike Ybarra tweet was not directed at you. He listed off 5 games that all fell in the AAA SP space. He's thinking about ways to get more of those types of games made.

The horde seems to demand more of those games while being resistant to any idea that might make that more likely.

 

[Danjin44]

Ideas like that make me puke.

Thank god that even guys from the gacha scene understand that's outrageous and they don't charge extra money after the release price

‘Stellar Blade’ Director Rejects Microtransactions, Promises Game “Will Not Require Players To Spend Any Additional Money Beyond What They Paid For The Package”

'Stellar Blade' director Hyung-Tae Kim has promised that, save for one specific type of instance, the game will feature no microtransactions.

boundingintocomics.com

And these are devs who made mobile in their pervious work.

 

[Coconutt]

These the types of tips I'll be leaving.