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MLB 2016-2017 Offseason |OT| At Least Next Year is an Odd Numbered Year.

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1

17 Seconds

Banned
Triangulate said:
Spoken like a guy buying into any false narrative he can find so he can throw out his one liner shitposts in a baseball thread on a gaming forum.

There is no "culture of racism" with the Cardinals or any other team. There's a subset of douchebag Cardinals fans that say racist shit because they're fucking morons. There are absolutely some despicable people who root for the Cardinals. Zero denying that. They're not just an embarrassment to other Cardinals fans, they're an embarrassment to society in general. But that's not unique to the Cardinals, though it is magnified because of a Twitter account and irresponsible media (hi NY Daily News). However, that doesn't constitute a "culture" of anything, no matter how badly you want it to so you can have a reason to shit on some other team.

How about you ask LaTroy Hawkins or Milton Bradley how much they enjoyed the commentary from the bleacher bums at Wrigley. Or Don Baylor. Or Dusty Baker. Or how things went for Ernie Banks his first couple years. You think times have changed and Chicago is now some mecca of acceptance and tolerance in 2017? Read the comments or Twitter on any South Side crime articles lately? Some truly enlightened viewpoints..

Time to get down off that high horse. Your team's fanbase and city aren't any better or worse than anyone else. There are asshats everywhere. Welcome to America.
Click to expand...

this would be a perfectly fine argument for pretty much any other team than the cardinals. you're speaking as if i'm calling the fan base racist because of overtly racist shitheads, when i'm not. the way some cards fans have acted towards fowler is something that would be found in any fan base. i'm talking about the long established culture of "playing the game the right way" and general pretentiousness of the fan base, and often those ideals overlap with racism. you can't pretend like those links don't exist, but the rest of the baseball world has kind of caught on by now,

so no, i'm not on a high horse about the cubs or any sports team. sports fans in general are awful, and there are plenty of things specific to the cubs themselves that you could insult. this isn't a "your team is a rival to my team so they are bad and racist" thing. this is real. i'm just pointing out that the cardinals have a different thing going on that isn't just your typical sports bs. they have their own special brand of awfulness, and they are going to continue to get called on it until they stop embracing it, or at least admit that it exists.

anyways, this is ruining a thread so i won't talk about it anymore. i'm sure cards fans will continue with the #allfansarebad defense, regardless.

Silver Arrows said:
I don't think I have seen a greater takedown of 17 Seconds' hot takes in a long time.
Click to expand...

i'm the one who shuts down hot takes, get it right.
 
T

Triangulate

Member
17 Seconds said:
this would be a perfectly fine argument for pretty much any other team than the cardinals. you're speaking as if i'm calling the fan base racist because of overtly racist shitheads, when i'm not. the way some cards fans have acted towards fowler is something that would be found in any fan base. i'm talking about the long established culture of "playing the game the right way" and general pretentiousness of the fan base, and often those ideals overlap with racism. you can't pretend like those links don't exist, but the rest of the baseball world has kind of caught on by now,

so no, i'm not on a high horse about the cubs or any sports team. sports fans in general are awful, and there are plenty of things specific to the cubs themselves that you could insult. this isn't a "your team is a rival to my team so they are bad and racist" thing. this is real. i'm just pointing out that the cardinals have a different thing going on that isn't just your typical sports bs. they have their own special brand of awfulness, and they are going to continue to get called on it until they stop embracing it, or at least admit that it exists.

anyways, this is ruining a thread so i won't talk about it anymore. i'm sure cards fans will continue with the #allfansarebad defense, regardless.
Click to expand...

Like I said, any false narrative you can find.

Long established culture of pretentiousness and racism? Established by whom? I'm still confused if it's the fans or the organization. And how long? Since Curt Flood? Lou Brock? Bob Gibson? Ozzie Smith? Willie McGee? Ray Lankford? Reggie Sanders? Tony Womack? Edwin Jackson? Tommy Pham? All guys who were liked (some beloved) by the fans.

Or maybe you just mean the last few years when the Cardinals have admittedly not had many black players on the roster (nor has the league as a whole). Except, you know, the guy they offered the largest contract in team history. Or the one they just signed to play CF for the next five years. And I must have imagined the ridiculous offer they made to David Price. Clearly the actions of an organization trying to play the "white way".

And I'm sure you read that article a few years back stating the Cardinals were one of three teams that didn't have a black player on the current roster. You know who else was on that list? The SF Giants. Are they promoting and fostering a culture of racism too? When is the rest of the baseball world (and by that I assume you mean rival fans and Deadspin) going to catch on to what the Giants are doing?!

Listen, I've been around here a long time and I've seen your posts. When I responded yesterday it was not with the intention of having some protracted debate with you or to change your mind. You've swapped a sweeping generalization about racism to one about pretentiousness (with racial undertones or something? I don't know).You clearly have an axe to grind with the Cardinals and their fans. I mean, aren't you the guy who responded to a lighthearted joke about Arrieta and steroids by shitting on the Cardinals for taking a moment to honor their dead 22 year old player? Nothing I can say is going to mean shit to you.

You are absolutely right that we're just shitting up the thread though. Baseball is back, we had games all weekend, and no one cares about our bullshit. So you'll go back to posting whatever, I'll go back to lurking, and the thread will go back to normal. It's all good. Good luck to the Cubs this year and hope it's a fun season.
 
S

Silver Arrows

Banned
Last word on this argument: baseball is inherently racist. Has been for pretty much all of it's history.

There are no winners. Every team has hands dirtied by the racism of the game.
 
C

CosmicQueso

Member
But who's racister, Silver? I'd say any team with an English word team nickname is inherently racist.

The Padres are the only hope for a truly inclusive world. Well, them and Les Expos. Well I guess Astro is technically Greek, so throw that one in there too. But everyone else, racists, the whole lot of 'em.
 
S

Silver Arrows

Banned
CosmicQueso said:
But who's racister, Silver? I'd say any team with an English word team nickname is inherently racist.

The Padres are the only hope for a truly inclusive world. Well, them and Les Expos. Well I guess Astro is technically Greek, so throw that one in there too. But everyone else, racists, the whole lot of 'em.
Click to expand...

I am seriously wondering if in a past life, you lived in Montreal.
 
B

bonesmccoy

Banned
How is baseball inherently racist?

The leagues, teams and associations certainly have been in the past - but that's more of a reflection of stupidity and prejudices of the era than something specific to the game itself.

How is *any* sport inherently racist?
 
C

Chris R

Member
So I checked the TV schedule... Mariners first game is NEXT SUNDAY

:( Wish the team was a little bit more of a draw, or that we played the Cubs more frequently
 
C

Carpe Libertatem

Member
Triangulate said:
Or maybe you just mean the last few years when the Cardinals have admittedly not had many black players on the roster (nor has the league as a whole). Except, you know, the guy they offered the largest contract in team history. Or the one they just signed to play CF for the next five years. And I must have imagined the ridiculous offer they made to David Price. Clearly the actions of an organization trying to play the "white way".

And I'm sure you read that article a few years back stating the Cardinals were one of three teams that didn't have a black player on the current roster. You know who else was on that list? The SF Giants. Are they promoting and fostering a culture of racism too? When is the rest of the baseball world (and by that I assume you mean rival fans and Deadspin) going to catch on to what the Giants are doing?!
Click to expand...

Beyond that, Cardinals ownership/front office had been vocal about one of their reasons for pursuing Price, Heyward, and Fowler is because the team didn't have a black player in a city with close to a majority black population. And that that felt wrong.

But easier to just pretend to be holier-than-thou and that the Cardinals are so much worse than (insert team).

(Comparing "AllLivesMatter" bullshit to what we're talking about is totally tonedeaf, too.)
 
P

Parch

Member
Stroman looked pretty good. He's capable of having much better year than last.
I'd like to see Devon Travis have a breakout season as well. A healthy year and a really good batting average as the leadoff hitter would be nice.
 
S

Silver Arrows

Banned
Interesting way of putting it from Jeff Passan:

It's almost March. Joe Blanton, Pedro Alvarez, Doug Fister, Luke Hochevar, Coco Crisp, Colby Lewis, Kelly Johnson, many more are still FA.

For years executives have wondered what a rational free agent market would look like. Save for excessive closer $, this offseason showed us.

The answer: Ugly for players’ version of the middle class -- guys who are clearly major league quality but have veneer of replaceability.

Won’t draw out this tortured metaphor much longer, but in a lot of ways MLB more and more represents its country’s shrinking in the middle.
Click to expand...

https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/836307157914116100
 
D

Dmncnby2k9

Banned
Love the WBC and its really helping grow the sport globally. Heres to a nice showing by Team USA.

Baseball America said:
By those measures, the World Baseball Classic has been a success. The WBC is expected to bring in around $100 million in revenue this time. It has generated a profit since its first event in 2006. And that profit comes after the event doles out seven-figure payouts to national federations and players around the world.

Those payouts can be game-changers for national federations in less-developed baseball markets. As one national federation official described it, the payouts for just making the tournament are useful to a federation’s budget, but the payout for advancing to the second round can be game-changing for less baseball-rich nations. And when a team like the Netherlands makes it to the semifinals, it can make a significant impact. It helped fund a new $15 million stadium project (Sportpark Pioniers in Hoofddorp) that is designed to exacting MLB standards (and is expandable to up to 30,000 seats), opening up the possibility of an eventual MLB trip to Europe.


Read more at http://www.baseballamerica.com/inte...l-classic-builds-success/#z6GBjEe7F0AIBJgg.99
Click to expand...
 
X

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Giants have paid off their 20-year loan for AT&T park:

The debt service is over. John Shea has the scoop:

On Dec. 15, six days after their news conference to introduce Mark Melancon as their $62 million closer, the Giants made the final payment on AT&T Park.

The 20-year mortgage on the $170 million loan that helped fund construction of the waterfront park at Third and King was quietly paid off without fanfare or a news release.
Click to expand...

It was big money at the time, and there were important baseball people who were absolutely appalled that the Giants were going to pay for it themselves. From 1996:

One of the most influential owners in pro sports, Jerry Reinsdorf of the Chicago White Sox and the mega-successful Chicago Bulls, does not think it can be done.

"The best they will be able to do is cover their debt service. So what's the point of building it?" he said at the conference organized by the National Council for Urban Economic Development and several corporate sponsors.
Click to expand...

You visionless tub of entitlement. Look at where we are now. The Giants own their ballpark, and the White Sox still pay $1.5 million every year in rent. Which is a bargain, sure. And, also, U.S. Cellular seems like an ongoing scam on several levels. So they're doing fine. BUT WHEN YOU HAVE TO RE-NEGOTIATE IN 2029, WE WILL BE THERE TO LAUGH AT YOU NOT OWNING THE BALLPARK, REINSDORF.

The debt service was $20 million every year, though the organization refinanced at one point to develop the area around the park, which got payments down to $18 million. Considering the payrolls for the first 10 years of the park, that total seems even more impressive:

2000 - $53.7 million
2001 - $63.3M
2002 - $78.3M
2003 - $82.9M
2004 - $82.0M
2005 - $89.5M
2006 - $90.0M
2007 - $90.2M
2008 - $76.6M
2009 - $82.2M

In the free-spending years, the Giants' debt service would be close to a quarter of their payroll. In the leanest year, it was more than a third. Obviously, this doesn't take inflation into account, but it was always a chunk of change. Eliminating the service back then would have been a huge deal. The kind that could have brought Vladimir Guerrero. Maybe even Barry Zito and Alfonso Soriano!
Click to expand...

The Giants can be proud of having one of the only privately financed ballparks in baseball. They're an example for the rest of professional sports, and I hope like heck that the A's do the same thing soon. After years and years of failure and dumb ideas*, the Giants finally did it. Now the payments are gone, and it's over. We don't even have to worry about the team deciding they need a new ballpark in the near future, like the Rangers or Braves.

* No, seriously, check these dumb ideas out, I can't remind people of this enough
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http://www.sfchronicle.com/giants/a...952512.php?t=7983f30293&cmpid=twitter-premium

The Giants are the only professional team in town, but that will change as soon as 2019, when the Golden State Warriors relocate to Mission Bay. At the Jan. 17 groundbreaking ceremony for the basketball team's new arena, a familiar face was seen in the front row: Baer's.

For now, the Giants and Warriors appear to be content as neighbors, though they might be competing for concert bookings and other events in the future. A day after Lady Gaga's performance at the Super Bowl, for instance, the Giants announced she'll perform at their park in August.

”I think the potential exists to have one of the hottest districts in America," said Baer, noting the thriving neighborhoods around UCSF's Mission Bay campus, the Warriors' Chase Center site and the pending Mission Rock development.

It's nothing like it was when the Giants took out their loan with Chase Manhattan Bank in 1997. They were scheduled to pay it off by the first quarter of 2017, but made the final payment in the final quarter of 2016 for tax reasons and simply to enter the new year debt free.

The Giants expect to go back into debt to fund the Mission Rock project. They have a 66-year lease in China Basin and plan to stick around — unlike the Atlanta Braves, who are moving into a new ballpark after just 20 years at Turner Field, and the Texas Rangers, who want to rebuild in Arlington.

”News flash: We're not going anywhere," Baer said. ”Other sports teams in California might be moving. We're not. We know where we'll be for maybe decades, at an open-air park in a beautiful neighborhood."
Click to expand...
 
G

GK86

Homeland Security Fail
fsoH48e.jpg
Click to expand...

.
 
S

Silver Arrows

Banned
I wonder, if maybe the Sharks see money in moving closer towards where the majority of their fans are, will the Giants / Warriors try to fight them off to stay in San Jose like what the Mariners tried to do with the SoDo arena development plan in Seattle.
 
P

PROh1bited

Banned
I really hope Rowdy Tellez impresses the Jays and wins the job over Smoak. I really don't wanna see another year of Smoak taking at bats.
 
C

CygnusXS

will gain confidence one day
bonesmccoy said:
How is baseball inherently racist?

The leagues, teams and associations certainly have been in the past - but that's more of a reflection of stupidity and prejudices of the era than something specific to the game itself.

How is *any* sport inherently racist?
Click to expand...

"Structurally racist" is, I think, more accurate.

Also, Max Fried is my new favourite pitcher.
 
B

Beckx

Member
Chuck said:
How the hell is Curaçaoan Jonathan Schoop playing for the Netherlands team in the WBC?
Click to expand...

a quick google search says Curacao is a constituent country of the Netherlands

which is also why Hensley Meulens can coach for the Netherlands, i guess!
 
C

CosmicQueso

Member
Saw Schoop play for the Netherlands at a WBC game in AZ last time. Dude raked.

Better question is why does boxing Felix Hernandez have one of those MLB players doing cross fit commercials. Hilarious. Might as well let Bartolo do one.
 
P

Parch

Member
PROh1bited said:
I really hope Rowdy Tellez impresses the Jays and wins the job over Smoak. I really don't wanna see another year of Smoak taking at bats.
Click to expand...
Radio dudes are saying that the Jays want to have Smoak full time at first base and Pearce full time in left. I can't see that lasting long. Those 2 should be able to form a decent platoon and Upton and Carrera can battle for OF time.
It doesn't sound like there are any Jay minor leaguers ready for significant contribution. Maybe Pompey. Player health is going to be important because there's not much help waiting.
 
1

17 Seconds

Banned
Triangulate said:
Like I said, any false narrative you can find.

Long established culture of pretentiousness and racism? Established by whom? I'm still confused if it's the fans or the organization. And how long? Since Curt Flood? Lou Brock? Bob Gibson? Ozzie Smith? Willie McGee? Ray Lankford? Reggie Sanders? Tony Womack? Edwin Jackson? Tommy Pham? All guys who were liked (some beloved) by the fans.

Or maybe you just mean the last few years when the Cardinals have admittedly not had many black players on the roster (nor has the league as a whole). Except, you know, the guy they offered the largest contract in team history. Or the one they just signed to play CF for the next five years. And I must have imagined the ridiculous offer they made to David Price. Clearly the actions of an organization trying to play the "white way".

And I'm sure you read that article a few years back stating the Cardinals were one of three teams that didn't have a black player on the current roster. You know who else was on that list? The SF Giants. Are they promoting and fostering a culture of racism too? When is the rest of the baseball world (and by that I assume you mean rival fans and Deadspin) going to catch on to what the Giants are doing?!

Listen, I've been around here a long time and I've seen your posts. When I responded yesterday it was not with the intention of having some protracted debate with you or to change your mind. You've swapped a sweeping generalization about racism to one about pretentiousness (with racial undertones or something? I don't know).You clearly have an axe to grind with the Cardinals and their fans. I mean, aren't you the guy who responded to a lighthearted joke about Arrieta and steroids by shitting on the Cardinals for taking a moment to honor their dead 22 year old player? Nothing I can say is going to mean shit to you.

You are absolutely right that we're just shitting up the thread though. Baseball is back, we had games all weekend, and no one cares about our bullshit. So you'll go back to posting whatever, I'll go back to lurking, and the thread will go back to normal. It's all good. Good luck to the Cubs this year and hope it's a fun season.
Click to expand...

for the record, my problem with the tavares thing was that most of the stuff that was done to honor him completely glossed over (or flat out omitted) the young girl that was killed because of his stupid actions. i'm not denying that it was a tragedy, or that he didn't deserve to be honored like that. just be honest about what happened.

as for the rest of the stuff, you seem to be more focused on the organization's actions when my complaints have largely been about a specific section of the fan base. i think you'd be better served to just denounce that segment of cardinals fandom instead of acting like they don't exist, but i understand your points.and you're right, this is going nowhere, so we should stop.

BFIB: i'll do that heyward/fowler avatar bet if the other guy doesn't want to
 
BFIB

BFIB

Member
Padres gonna bottle that up with used plastic bottles and sell it at a discount.

17 Seconds, I think chicagocubsfan said he's game for the avatar bet. You and Carpe should have one. :)
 
T

Triangulate

Member
17 Seconds said:
for the record, my problem with the tavares thing was that most of the stuff that was done to honor him completely glossed over (or flat out omitted) the young girl that was killed because of his stupid actions. i'm not denying that it was a tragedy, or that he didn't deserve to be honored like that. just be honest about what happened.

as for the rest of the stuff, you seem to be more focused on the organization's actions when my complaints have largely been about a specific section of the fan base. i think you'd be better served to just denounce that segment of cardinals fandom instead of acting like they don't exist, but i understand your points.and you're right, this is going nowhere, so we should stop.

BFIB: i'll do that heyward/fowler avatar bet if the other guy doesn't want to
Click to expand...

I acknowledged and condemned that subset of asshat Cardinals fans in my first post. At no point have I pretended they don't exist.

Now that you've clarified that it's just a select group of douchebags you have an issue with and not some culture that permeates the entire organization and fanbase, I think we're all good here.
 
C

Carpe Libertatem

Member
BFIB said:
Padres gonna bottle that up with used plastic bottles and sell it at a discount.

17 Seconds, I think chicagocubsfan said he's game for the avatar bet. You and Carpe should have one. :)
Click to expand...

higher WAR between Fowler and Heyward? I'm not sure I'd pick Fowler :lol
i should have more faith
 
D

Dmncnby2k9

Banned
From Anthony Di Como's twitter:
The Mets' great pitcher rollout has begun:

3/2: Robert Gsellman
3/3: Noah Syndergaard
3/4: Jacob deGrom
3/5: Matt Harvey
3/6: Steven Matz

Should be a nice week with wheeler starting next week.
 
B

BigAT

Member
Dmncnby2k9 said:
From Anthony Di Como's twitter:
The Mets' great pitcher rollout has begun:

3/2: Robert Gsellman
3/3: Noah Syndergaard
3/4: Jacob deGrom
3/5: Matt Harvey
3/6: Steven Matz

Should be a nice week with wheeler starting next week.
Click to expand...

From that group, number of ligaments torn in the next 6 months.

O/U: 3
 
C

CosmicQueso

Member
Silver Arrows said:
Matt Vasgersian returns for main commentating duties in MLB The Show 17.

Everyone's favorite dumbass Harold Reynolds and Dan Plesac make up the new side duo.
Click to expand...

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucccccccccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat
 
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