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Mode7 vs Raster racers

lazygecko

Member
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I have a confession to make. I never particularly enjoyed the original Super Mario Kart or F-Zero. These were the flagship SNES titles showing off its hardware scaling and rotation through Mode7 to give a 3D perspective, and were treated as technological milestones. But when I compare it to the older technique of using raster tricks to give the impression of 3D tracks and terrain, seemingly regarded as more technologically primitive, to me Mode7 just comes off as very hamstrung in what you're allowed to do visually and design-wise (When I say Mode7 I don't really strictly mean the particular SNES technology either. It has just become a sort of universal name for anything applying the same principles for the same effect, like Wacky Wheels on PC, or BC Racers on the 32X).

The one distinct advantage of Mode7 I can think of is the fact that the camera can be freely rotated to display the track at any angle, while raster engines are locked to a fixed angle in order to maintain the illusion. This sure sounds like a big deal on paper, but whenever I play these games it's never something that actively enters my mind nor does it have any meaningful integration into the gameplay beyond some fancy camera tricks once the race is over.

There are a couple of things that really bother me when playing Mode7 racers. First is the unnatural flatness of the world which seems to be due to a number of factors. One is a distinct lack of prop objects placed in the scenery. Super Mario Kart is the only exception I can think of on the SNES which features some pipes here and there. Dunno if the general lack of these were due to technical limitations.
The second is how the perspective just doesn't feel right, where the horizon feels very squished making it hard to see what's coming up in the distance (this seems to be a combination of the height of the perspective and the quality degradation of the vertical scaling. Or is this also due to an ortographic view or something? I'm not really schooled enough in that subject to be able to tell.
Third is how the tracks themselves don't feel quite as nuanced in their raw layout, relying much more on sudden sharp turns and such, which kind of ties into the feel and fluidity of the driving and steering which I never really got a feel for either.

All in all, raster-based racers just seem to have a lot more going for them. Apart from the immediately obvious like having a lot more scenery props like lampposts, bushes, checkpoints, etc, one of the things I like the most is their ability to convey slopes through elevations and descents. They also frequently feature tunnel segments which does a lot for variety, and some of the later ones even manage to convey things like cliff edges. All of these things make Mode7-based racers just feel downright regressive in all the ways that count. I don't think I've seen a single Mode7 racer with these kinds of features.
 

Platy

Member
But in rasters you can only turn so much. And gameplay wise that is absolutly a no brainer for a racer.
 

Galactic Fork

A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
I was bothered by the flatness in mode 7 racers. But the big exception for me was super offroad the baha. A mode 7 racer with hills the most 3d tracks I'd seen on the snes.

Edit. Wow it got horrible reviews. I don't remember it being so bad. :(
 

Celine

Member
As much as I love a timeless classic like Outrun, how the raster effect simulate curves is very unrealistic and kind of kill the driving mood.
In fact in Outrun you basically drive forward while dodging traffic more than actually do any kind of turns.
I much prefer an overhead view like in Neo Driftout at least you actually do turns with your car instead of a invisible force pushing your car left or right in specific points of the track.

I understand your complain about mode7 flatness but for certain settings (futuristic racers, F1 and kart) don't bother much cause the track's road are or may be expected to be flat.
 

lazygecko

Member
Lack of sharp turns is a good point, but in all the Mode7 games I've played, the steering and physics just isn't in place to make those segments feel fun.

I was bothered by the flatness in mode 7 racers. But the big exception for me was super offroad the baha. A mode 7 racer with hills the most 3d tracks I'd seen on the snes.

I've seen that game before, but I just assumed that it was a traditional raster engine. There's no shortage of them on the SNES, like Top Gear.
 

LordRaptor

Member
Outside of titles like Super Sprint which played to sprite based titles strengths rather than heabutted against their weaknesses, raster based racing games have always been borderline unplayable to me - even cutting edge (for the time) stuff like Powerdrift due to the flickery nature of the entire world being redrawn every frame.

Mode 7 sort of alleviated this, but it was games like Geoff Crammonds Stunt Car Racer that made it clear how racing games 'should' be being made
 

daviyoung

Banned
But in rasters you can only turn so much. And gameplay wise that is absolutly a no brainer for a racer.

for arcade racers this really isn't a problem

Daytona, Burnout and Wipeout all go a bit wobbly if you do anything but stay on the course and they all rely on your inability to move anywhere to create a sense of concentrated speed
 

Bgamer90

Banned
I grew up playing F-1 Race on my Game Boy Pocket and F-Zero and Super Mario Kart on my SNES.

I prefer Mode7 over Raster due the (pretty obvious) differences in making turns.
 
I've seen that game before, but I just assumed that it was a traditional raster engine. There's no shortage of them on the SNES, like Top Gear.

Super Off road is using a proper scrolling 2D tile map, so visually it's kind of a halfway house. They don't rotate the map of course, although you could do both in theory, if you were driving around ovals with flat turns at each end.
 

jobrro

Member
Really don't like the visuals in SMK. Doesn't help it is split screen even in single player.

Whereas games like Outrun and similar racers like Lotus II on MegaDrive look good to me.
 

RM8

Member
I can't agree, SMK had amazing gameplay that couldn't be done without Mode7. But yeah, I enjoy older racers too.
 

ElFly

Member
Mode 7 racers are cool, but rasters can give an amazing sense of speed.

I like SMK for the multiplayer, but other than that, rasters all the way.
 
I never loved any pre-3D racing game all that much, but I never enjoyed any Mode 7 racing game at all. They just lacked any kind of depth and felt like a sheet of paper moving underneath you with the tracks and barriers drawn on. And it was only years later that I realised the stuff off the side of the tracks in F-Zero was supposed to be an aerial view of a distant city below - the illusion just doesn't work at all because everything is on the same flat plane.
 

Synth

Member
Put me on team Raster. I always hated how the Mode 7 stuff always felt like I was playing on a sheet of rotating paper. Whilst the effect of actually moving is faked in both, in Mode 7 it always felt more like the world was simply being pulled and rotated beneath me, rather than that I was actually travelling through it.

But in rasters you can only turn so much. And gameplay wise that is absolutly a no brainer for a racer.

This isn't really much of an issue, in many cases it would be expected that the vehicle you're driving wouldn't be able to make a 180 turn at high speeds, and the games in general never really dealt with the lower speeds that would make you question why you were unable to turn around and drive the other way (Mario Kart's battle mode basically representing the exceptions).

Mode 7 gave freedom to 2D Racers, raster would never have given them.

I'd argue they brought more limitation, than the freedoms they provide. As you're effectively driving over a textured polygon, you're restricted in both the scope of the tracks you can include (you're going to be lap based, rather than having a 10 minute point-to-point race), and restricted in the variety of visuals (the mentioned tunnels.. or the fact that Outrun literally change its entire setting dynamic over the course of the race).
 

pswii60

Member
I enjoyed rasters more too, mainly because they looked better. Mode 7 is just too flat and all the games look pretty much the same. But I realise that it gives freedom that raster doesn't, but I don't care because Outrun.
 

big_z

Member
I was bothered by the flatness in mode 7 racers. But the big exception for me was super offroad the baha. A mode 7 racer with hills the most 3d tracks I'd seen on the snes.

Edit. Wow it got horrible reviews. I don't remember it being so bad. :(

don't be sad I liked that game too. you could run over animals and I think people.
 
Raster could pull off tricks that allowed it to offer more variety in terrain, but Mode 7 allowed for better tracks in my opinion. Outrun and Super Hang-On will always be great, but their tracks are pretty much just go straight for a while and dodge stuff. Mario Kart and F-Zero feel like you're really on a closed circuit.
 
I favor mode 7 for the ability to turn around but the landscapes and hills of raster was a definite plus over it.

I was bothered by the flatness in mode 7 racers. But the big exception for me was super offroad the baha. A mode 7 racer with hills the most 3d tracks I'd seen on the snes.

Edit. Wow it got horrible reviews. I don't remember it being so bad. :(

I only rented it but I recall really enjoying it. Then again I was 11 or so and the "MIND BLOWING!" 3D graphics that Genesisn't was all I needed to like a game.
 
As much as I'm a huge fan of SNES F-Zero, the technology didn't come close to high end Sega arcade games of the mid '80s-early '90s.
 

mr jones

Ethnicity is not a race!
Raster could pull off tricks that allowed it to offer more variety in terrain, but Mode 7 allowed for better tracks in my opinion. Outrun and Super Hang-On will always be great, but their tracks are pretty much just go straight for a while and dodge stuff. Mario Kart and F-Zero feel like you're really on a closed circuit.

Nah.

Super Monaco GP on the Genesis gave a great sense of speed, while also giving the illusion of being on an actual track, with subtle hills and valleys.
 
I really think Mario Kart and F-Zero franchise started in N64 honestly. Original Mario Kart and F-Zero are weird and hardly fun. OutRun in the other hand, is still a fantastic game and 3DS version is sublime.

Pilotwing is a better use of Mode 7 in SNES IMHO
 
Mountain Bike Rally for SNES did the same:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKOsyxTJyPI

neat! never heard of that.

I think that's completely mode-7 though, the whole track is in BG2 and there are no tiles being updated when racing on a hill.

'Mode 7' as in perspective background is a type of raster effect where bg scale and scrolling is tweaked each line. Rolling road games use another type of raster effect for hills and turns, GT Advance 2 and Mountain Bike Rally combine elements of both. There's no need to update tiles for the case of hills in either.
 

mr jones

Ethnicity is not a race!
I was bothered by the flatness in mode 7 racers. But the big exception for me was super offroad the baha. A mode 7 racer with hills the most 3d tracks I'd seen on the snes.

Edit. Wow it got horrible reviews. I don't remember it being so bad. :(

That wasn't a mode 7 racer.
 

Oemenia

Banned
Never considered that the raster effect had advantages, but the gameplay limitations really suck.

Also I think MD games which is a system that didn't support scaling and rotating making gameplay feel really limited.
 

Bgamer90

Banned
Raster could pull off tricks that allowed it to offer more variety in terrain, but Mode 7 allowed for better tracks in my opinion. Outrun and Super Hang-On will always be great, but their tracks are pretty much just go straight for a while and dodge stuff. Mario Kart and F-Zero feel like you're really on a closed circuit.

Completely agree.
 
Raster was the superior technology. Road Rash was awesome.

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Loved all the hills, all the scenery passing by, even more complex stuff like intersections with cars moving horizontally that could hit you.

With Mode 7 I'm always struck by the stark flatness of it all, and the lack of any pop-up scenery most of the time, as well as something to do with how they render the perspective making it hard to see what's coming up next. Just didn't "feel" right to me. Road Rash felt like a real road.
 

Apenheul

Member
Here's a nice article about raster graphics, it should tell you everything you need to know: http://www.extentofthejam.com/pseudo/

It's easier to do physics in mode-7 as the position of the car (or the BG scrolling register values) can be represented as a 2D-vector, in raster graphics racing games you can only move forward most of the time and going around corners is basically like strafing in the original DOOM. Most of the effects that are somehow attributed to raster graphics would work just as fine in mode-7 games if SNES could handle sprite-scaling. I think the tubes and trees alongside Mario Kart's tracks are prescaled (sort of like LODs).
 
Mode 7 allows much better gameplay. Raster racers are traffic- and obstacle-dodging games more than true racing games. I liked them for being relatively impressive for less capable hardware like the Game Boy, but Mode 7 is the superior technology without question.
 
I loved SMK and liked F-Zero, but neither are as exciting to me to watch or play as a Road Rash or Skitchin' (varied elevation changes, beautiful parallax horizons, very long courses). The only other general difference between the styles besides the drivability of tighter turn angles that gave you a greater sense of a real track layout to memorize is that flat rotating images tended toward wider tracks which lent itself better to more heavily crowded fields of competitors, though digital control made navigating just as limited as any dense traffic in a traditional raster racer.

I prefer the older style for its large number of still-fun and playable titles, but if the takeover of polygonal racers had come later, who knows what might have happened with more time and advancement.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
Raster is so much better to me, because it's the throwback to an arcade era that I loved. Mode 7 never looked good to me, and to this day I feel the original Mariokart is the worst because of the flat tracks.

But it's not really a fair comparison either.
 

OmegaDL50

Member
Lack of sharp turns is a good point, but in all the Mode7 games I've played, the steering and physics just isn't in place to make those segments feel fun.



I've seen that game before, but I just assumed that it was a traditional raster engine. There's no shortage of them on the SNES, like Top Gear.

Yeah Top Gear 2 on the SNES is probably one of the best examples of a racer which isn't using Mode 7 but something similar but has proper elevation changes.

I know one of the tracks in Austrailia earlier on in the game has lots of hills and steep inclines so it removes the "flatness" issue that is present in stuff like F-Zero and F1 ROC.
 
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