It always blows my mind how he can unite such different ideologies. So many groups that are downright enemies somehow get hoodwinked into towing the line together when it comes to Putin.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Multiple Stabbing at Neo-Nazi Rally in Sacramento
- Thread starter Spoiled Milk
- Start date
- Status
It always blows my mind how he can unite such different ideologies. So many groups that are downright enemies somehow get hoodwinked into towing the line together when it comes to Putin.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
fair point. the ones i run into the most are the internet nazis on reddit who like to claim they aren't nazis
Jawbreaker
Member
I guess money solves that little problem?
I think it goes to show that ideology is often not as clear-cut as it seems to be. While communists in the United States and Western Europe tend to be vehemently anti-imperialist, and generally reject the Soviet Union, communists in Russia seek a return to the imperial splendor of the USSR. And Putin has pretty cleverly paid lip service to the Russian left, providing single-payer healthcare and embracing their socialist past.
MHWilliams
Member
So I'm confused here.
Both videos seem to show those from the Traditionalist Worker Party (read: Neo-Nazi) as the overwhelming aggressors. By their own estimation, a largely majority of those hurt were counter protesters.
The original article does not in fact, point to the original aggressor, only pointing out the all-out fight. Tweets seem to go either way, but given that many of the stabbing wounds were given to counter protesters, this account seems likely, but honestly, things seems like they could go either.
But it seems the thread is focused in a single direction? I cannot seemingly account for this. Is that existing bias, a lack of information, or something else? Perhaps someone could explain this to me?
We don't have absolute freedom of speech, because there will be cases where your civil rights (speech in this case) run up against the rights of another.
Both videos seem to show those from the Traditionalist Worker Party (read: Neo-Nazi) as the overwhelming aggressors. By their own estimation, a largely majority of those hurt were counter protesters.
The original article does not in fact, point to the original aggressor, only pointing out the all-out fight. Tweets seem to go either way, but given that many of the stabbing wounds were given to counter protesters, this account seems likely, but honestly, things seems like they could go either.
But it seems the thread is focused in a single direction? I cannot seemingly account for this. Is that existing bias, a lack of information, or something else? Perhaps someone could explain this to me?
We don't have absolute freedom of speech, because there will be cases where your civil rights (speech in this case) run up against the rights of another.
Jawbreaker
Member
So I'm confused here.
Both videos seem to show those from the Traditionalist Worker Party (read: Neo-Nazi) as the overwhelming aggressors. By their own estimation, a largely majority of those hurt were counter protesters.
The original article does not in fact, point to the original aggressor, only pointing out the all-out fight. Tweets seem to go either way, but given that many of the stabbing wounds were given to counter protesters, this account seems likely, but honestly, things seems like they could go either.
But it seems the thread is focused in a single direction? I cannot seemingly account for this. Is that existing bias, a lack of information, or something else? Perhaps someone could explain this to me?
We don't have absolute freedom of speech, because there will be cases where your civil rights (speech in this case) run up against the rights of another.
I think everyone's just confused about the events leading up to the violence.
Yep I would say the reporter who was reporting bystanders etc. being attacked is what angled the discussion. Then again people claiming its alright to attack just based on who it was certainly directed responses as well.
The Albatross
Member
One of the neo-nazi leaders also promoting Hezbollah...
Y'know, it's just so odd that two groups that couldn't be any more diametrically opposed, American Neo-Nazis and Middle Eastern Islamist terrorist organizations, easily find common ground on Jew hatred.
(also sorry for the odd screenshot, grabbed off twitter)
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
If that video above is any indication it seems both sides were plenty itching to throw down.So I'm confused here.
Both videos seem to show those from the Traditionalist Worker Party (read: Neo-Nazi) as the overwhelming aggressors. By their own estimation, a largely majority of those hurt were counter protesters.
The original article does not in fact, point to the original aggressor, only pointing out the all-out fight. Tweets seem to go either way, but given that many of the stabbing wounds were given to counter protesters, this account seems likely, but honestly, things seems like they could go either.
But it seems the thread is focused in a single direction? I cannot seemingly account for this. Is that existing bias, a lack of information, or something else? Perhaps someone could explain this to me?
We don't have absolute freedom of speech, because there will be cases where your civil rights (speech in this case) run up against the rights of another.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Is this the dude who did the white student organization at Townson university?
One of the neo-nazi leaders also promoting Hezbollah...
Y'know, it's just so odd that two groups that couldn't be any more diametrically opposed, American Neo-Nazis and Middle Eastern Islamist terrorist organizations, easily find common ground on Jew hatred.
(also sorry for the odd screenshot, grabbed off twitter)
Dude looks like the same dude I saw in a vice video.
Edit: Yup. Dude is a idiot racist.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
this is the same shitstain, yes.
You seem awfully concerned for the Nazis.
tfur
Member
So I'm confused here.
Both videos seem to show those from the Traditionalist Worker Party (read: Neo-Nazi) as the overwhelming aggressors. By their own estimation, a largely majority of those hurt were counter protesters.
The original article does not in fact, point to the original aggressor, only pointing out the all-out fight. Tweets seem to go either way, but given that many of the stabbing wounds were given to counter protesters, this account seems likely, but honestly, things seems like they could go either.
But it seems the thread is focused in a single direction? I cannot seemingly account for this. Is that existing bias, a lack of information, or something else? Perhaps someone could explain this to me?
We don't have absolute freedom of speech, because there will be cases where your civil rights (speech in this case) run up against the rights of another.
CNN said the riot happened before it even started. A leader from the antinazi group "By any means necessary " was interviewed and said they were there to stop the nazi group by any means necessary. CNN reports it as them who started the violence. Who is who in the videos is hard to tell, but the sticks seem to be the BAMN people, since the CNN video shows sticks people on a building front against two obvious skin heads.
RichiRamjag
Member
I'm a black/Latino guy and while it's nice to see them catch an ass kicking, it wouldn't be nice for one of them to catch a beating, grab his mates while looking for revenge and catch me while I'm out with my family or some shit. Violence only begets more violence.
Exactly. I don't feel bad for any of those Neo-Nazis who were hurt one bit, but shit like this just encourages more of the same, and even incentivizes people not normally prone to violent solutions to seek them. It's a primal process that just strengthens itself along a very dangerous line of rationalizing violence.
Not to mention that it changes nothing except for increasing the number of violent protestors there are. It actually achieves nothing useful for anyone.
Non violence is non violence. Them being nazi's doesn't mean you go to a rally of theirs with violence.
SneakyStephan
Banned
That felt good, seeing them get run out of the neighbourhood.
Racists like that need to know they're not welcome anywhere in the 21st century
Nonsense. Your fears existed before today's rally. That happens to people of color regardless of violence towards them because of your skin color. No revenge necessary.
Cries for calm only happen when ignored minorities finally bark. But no one gives a damn about preventing the lead up to these situations.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
You are a very strange man. We fought WWII because Japan was a genocidal, imperialistic state that attacked us on our own soil when we slapped sanctions on them for the aforementioned genocide and imperialism. Fuck revisionism.
RichiRamjag
Member
Uh no, they didn't. Please don't tell me how I feel about shit. You don't know a thing about me. Violence rarely leads to anything positive, so I don't support it. Your condescending nonsense aside.
Pretty much.
They don't care. Getting run out of the neighborhood doesn't change their racist views, and indeed might cement their resolve to act with more preemptive violence next time now that a battlefield has been established.
Those reveling in seeing Nazis get beat up are being selfish. If it actually had some positive effect on changing anything, I would be out there with a fucking baseball bat. But it does nothing positive.
The idea that winning a brawl like this serves any purpose other than making the victors feel good about themselves is complete shit.
CertifiedFP
Member
These are no mere Neo-Nazis. These are Russian agents out to subvert civil order in the name of their high-pitched Fuhrer.
I believe the maximum penalty for Treason and/or Espionage is execution last I recall?
Ever read The Turner Diaries? Western anti-Semitism and Middle-Eastern terrorism targeted at Israel are joined at the hip.
I believe the maximum penalty for Treason and/or Espionage is execution last I recall?
Ever read The Turner Diaries? Western anti-Semitism and Middle-Eastern terrorism targeted at Israel are joined at the hip.
One of the neo-nazi leaders also promoting Hezbollah...
Y'know, it's just so odd that two groups that couldn't be any more diametrically opposed, American Neo-Nazis and Middle Eastern Islamist terrorist organizations, easily find common ground on Jew hatred.
(also sorry for the odd screenshot, grabbed off twitter)
Haha, now this is interesting. Hezbollah is pretty distinct from other Islamist groups, due to its Shia nature and Russian alignment. But you really cannot reconcile Christian traditionalism with support for an Islamist group. I'm now almost convinced that this guy is on someone's payroll.
mr stroke
Member
Holly shit, these guys really brought swords & shields LOL
Who the fuck wakes up on a Sunday morning with so much hate?
Hate crimes happen against blacks and Latinos around the clock. Strange to be black and Latino and not see yesterday's climate as a danger to your family. Minorities being openly attacked, muslim women followed by armed men,etc..
But today you're really thinking about it. You said rarely. Obstructing nazis that want us wiped off the face of the planet via violence is always a good example of how violence leads to a positive. 10/10 times.
CertifiedFP
Member
I believe that is "Providing Material Support for Terrorism".
Minimum penalty of 10 years imprisonment as of my last check.
RichiRamjag
Member
Whatever helps you come to terms with your warped sense of reality mate. Really nothing else to say.
Alex Stroud
Banned
These fucking loser-ass witchhunts and insinuations never get tired no matter how much I see them arise. Good job, Sherlock.
With enough power they won't return the favor in kind. So, neat.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Setting aside that Neo-Nazism is an exceedingly fringe political movement that stands no chance of actually gaining power to enact any of its desired bullshit (the Trump "movement" is largely racist, but of a less overtly hateful and violent type than Neo Nazis want to implement), freedom of speech carries with it an implicit imperative to fight speech WITH speech up to the limits of the efficacy of that strategy, which we've not come close to reaching. If alt-right weirdos were on the brink of establishing an MRA apartheidal theocracy, there would certainly be cause for violence, but as it stands, America is in the process of thoroughly rejecting that shit, at least for now.
Seductivpancakes
Member
No but I thought having a ton of Americans being killed by Germans who were fighting for the Nazi regime would have some sort of impact. Guess not.
Are we talking about a shitty little rally here or something else? If Nazi's are waging war, sure go fight em. But some fucks at a rally? Going and attacking them? Naaaah, that just gives them what they want, a battle. Now every Nazi went home thinking "ah yeah shits real, gonna fuck em up next time!!!" Congrats!
Seductivpancakes
Member
I seriously doubt they'll ever gain that much power. So with the ball in our court, we can definitely handle this without violence.
blame space
Banned
man this sent me down a hell of a clickhole
fuck these assholes http://projects.aljazeera.com/2015/07/hate-groups/
MHWilliams
Member
Ah, some seemed like they were fairly certain early in the thread, so that explains my confusion.
This is probably true. Since reports paint both with weapons of a sort.
Few things, one, the original LA Times story had none of this and similar reporting seems to back that up (see below). I have no citation for the "by any means necessary" quote.
The counter protesters were Anti-Fascist Sacramento, a smaller subsection of the Anti-Fascist Network. (Note the pink flags?) The young woman mentioned in CNN's story is also a part of BAMN, which is short for Coalition to Defend Affirmative Action, Integration, and Immigrant Rights and Fight for Equality By Any Means Necessary.
This protest in question was established by the Golden State Skinheads, in association with the TWP, at the behest of their chairman, who was the gentleman involved in an earlier incident of violence towards a Trump protester.
Note, Heimbach was not present for the riot.
You can get a full view of both protesting and counter protesting organizations in their own words from the links above.
The only one who is pointing directly at the counter protesters is CNN analyst Art Roderick, who was A) not there and B) has a history of questionable statements in this regard..
Here's the assorted stories from other networks:
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2016/06/26/multiple-people-stabbed-during-rally-at-state-capitol/
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/six-stabbed-during-white-supremacy-rally-california-n599281
http://fox6now.com/2016/06/26/quite...iolence-broke-out-during-rally-in-sacramento/
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/26/white-nationalist-rally-stabbings-california
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2016/06/26/multiple-people-stabbed-during-rally-at-state-capitol/
All largely the same. But again, if you have further information, by all means.
And while I understand your ire, I'd like much less of the hoping anyone dies in this thread. Thanks. Consider this your warning from the future.
Cheers.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Wait, you can just get a permit for a Nazi rally in the US? Okay?
That sick skull mask though.
what a bunch of clowns
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
That sick skull mask though.
what a bunch of clowns
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Look like neo-nazis alright lmao. They really think that they're royal knights or something.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
would be nice if that were the case but we have our own history of supporting fascism and white supremacy...
it would be best if we could keep it that way and while I generally agree it's also important to not lose sight of how quickly support can grow given the rise of proto-fascists like trump.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Either that or the worst Call of Duty cossplayers ever.
I like the guy who has just a crosshair on his toy shield. I can only imagine he told his mom to paint a sick cross on it and she didn't know what he meant.
- Status