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Natal struggles to see Black people?

D

Dragon

Banned
Jtyettis said:
I guess so considering you can actually see his hand movements move on screen with him lol. The racing is all over the place to be sure, but that seems like more of control and speed issue than anything. I certainly would not want to race like this to be sure.
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Keep fighting the good fight!

Jungle fever!
 
P

proposition

Banned
nib95 said:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/p75x879k24k36185/

Above shows a journal which reports that near-infrared spectroscopy (NIRS) is less effective on black skin as "melanin clearly interferes with the quality of the reflected NIRS signal".

As I understand, Natal uses near-infrared.
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This point is doubly wrong. Firstly because Natal doesn't use near infra-red, it uses infra-red. And secondly because even if it did use near infra-red, it's not performing near-infrared spectroscopy for "continuous monitoring of tissue oxygen delivery".
 
R

Rapping Granny

Banned
chappelle-001.jpg


"Darkness is here, darkness is spreading."
 
S

skulpt

Member
Anyone watch that King of the Hill where Hank's dog is apparently racist? This thread totally reminds me of that. Like in the episode, it's probably a different issue than the color of the skin. ;)
 
R

Ramenman

Member
nib95 said:
http://bitmob.com/index.php/mobfeed...eet-Arms-Legs-Torso-Heads-On-Impressions.html

Above impressions show that N'Gai Croal was not able to use Natal.
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At least post the sentence right after this one, instead of cutting off abruptly where it interests you in an attempt to mask the obvious truth :

It wasn't clear whether this was a problem of calibration differences between Tsunoda and Croal's very different body types, or if Croal's crazy dreadlocks threw Natal off.
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I don't know how much you know about infra-red culture (I'm an expert), but not having improbable hair is a huge part of it.
 
S

stephentotilo

Behind The Games
Not sure why some in this thread felt the need to attack N'Gai about this. He's guilty when someone writes a blog post about him? Give it a rest.
 
S

skulpt

Member
I'd like to see two tests done with Natal.

1) Pick a person with dark skin and have him play in the dark to see if this is an issue

2) Have someone who has been playing Burnout with Natal for say a week who is really good with the game to go against someone with a controller.

I'm starting to think like in Warhawk that the charm will wear off, and people will just want to just chill and have the more familiar and most likely more accurate controls of a controller. Does motion controls work well when flying a warhawk? Yes. Do most people still use motion controls for flying warhawks? Not from what I've seen. It's fun, feels awesome, but at the end of the day, I want to have the best control possible with the least amount of effort.

I get the feeling that if MS releases a hardcore game like Sony did with Lair and force motion controls on people, it could be reflected in the review scores pretty fast.
 
B

boiled goose

good with gravy
skulpt said:
Anyone watch that King of the Hill where Hank's dog is apparently racist? This thread totally reminds me of that. Like in the episode, it's probably a different issue than the color of the skin. ;)
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Some dogs do react more aggressively to people of a different skin town than that of the owners. They just seem more different or something.... what was the issue in the episode?

it will be interesting how issues like these get sorted out and resolved. That natal could be so sensitive to small issues such as these could be worrisome. if lighting, clothing, and background have to be adjusted to perfection before using camera based tech, I dont see them being very effective at capturing the casual audience.
 
P

proposition

Banned
skulpt said:
I'd like to see two tests done with Natal.

1) Pick a person with dark skin and have him play in the dark to see if this is an issue

2) Have someone who has been playing Burnout with Natal for say a week who is really good with the game to go against someone with a controller.

I'm starting to think like in Warhawk that the charm will wear off, and people will just want to just chill and have the more familiar and most likely more accurate controls of a controller. Does motion controls work well when flying a warhawk? Yes. Do most people still use motion controls for flying warhawks? Not from what I've seen. It's fun, feels awesome, but at the end of the day, I want to have the best control possible with the least amount of effort.
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Playing in the dark with a camera-based system is a problem for anyone. Of course ambient light conditions are going to have an effect. It's not as though human bodies are naturally luminescent. It might be worse for a black guy playing in the dark (though, more likely, it probably just doesn't work in the dark at all, no matter ethnicity) but it's hardly racist to point out that the darker a person's skin, the more difficult it is to see them in dark conditions. That's physics and biology, not racism. Otherwise why not claim that it's racist against white people if it has trouble distinguishing them against a brightly lit white background (my Eyetoy used to have trouble picking me up against my white-walled bedroom too, but I didn't ever accuse SCE of racism).
 
S

skulpt

Member
amtentori said:
Some dogs do react more aggressively to people of a different skin town than that of the owners. They just seem more different or something.... what was the issue in the episode?

it will be interesting how issues like these get sorted out and resolved. That natal could be so sensitive to small issues such as these could be worrisome. if lighting, clothing, and background have to be adjusted to perfection before using camera based tech, I dont see them being very effective at capturing the casual audience.
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It was actually the fact that the black guy was a repair man. Hank hates repair men because he would rather do things himself, so he was tense. The dog picked up on Hank feeling tense and took it out on the repair man. End of the episode, he gets another repair man in that happens to be white, and the dog reacts the same way.
 
D

Dragon

Banned
proposition said:
Playing in the dark with a camera-based system is a problem for anyone. Of course ambient light conditions are going to have an effect. It's not as though human bodies are naturally luminescent. It might be worse for a black guy playing in the dark (though, more likely, it probably just doesn't work in the dark at all, no matter ethnicity) but it's hardly racist to point out that the darker a person's skin, the more difficult it is to see them in dark conditions. That's physics and biology, not racism. Otherwise why not claim that it's racist against white people if it has trouble distinguishing them against a brightly lit white background (my Eyetoy used to have trouble picking me up against my white-walled bedroom too, but I didn't ever accuse SCE of racism).
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Why are you taking any of the racism claims seriously? :lol :lol :lol Jesus.
 
Alx

Alx

Member
skulpt said:
1) Pick a person with dark skin and have him play in the dark to see if this is an issue
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Being in the dark wouldn't change much (if anything, it would help the device) : the 3D cam emits IR light, that bounces on objects, and their distance/depth map is deduced from the time of flight of the signal. So external lighting won't change anything.
That's why different reflective properties of the skin could in theory be a problem, but I very much doubt it, even dark skinned people are visible in IR light.

skulpt said:
2) Have someone who has been playing Burnout with Natal for say a week who is really good with the game to go against someone with a controller.
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Driving is a really bad example of the use you can make of it : you're trying so simulate a character holding a wheel, with a device meant to leave the users hands free. It was only a fast and easy demo to make, but it's not meant to be a standard use of the 3D cam.
 
P

proposition

Banned
TheBranca18 said:
Why are you taking any of the racism claims seriously? :lol :lol :lol Jesus.
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Because someone honestly put forward the idea that we should pit Natal against a black guy in a dark room.
 
V

Vinci

Danish
Chiggs said:
This thread needs to be archived.
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Don't know which is funnier - the intended quips or the die-hard defenders. Natal doesn't need defenders - it's too early to be getting serious over this shit.
 
D

Deku

Banned
lol seems like people are already quite sold on it.

nothing quite like having your own flailing motion add-on.


good luck with the tech.
 
S

sprocket

Banned
you all have been bamboozled. It's still a camera and it still works like a camera even with a IR image. It's just not good for playing complex games.
 
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