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[spirity]

EverQuest. I have never played an MMO that sucked me in quite like EverQuest did. Part of that was down to the games difficulty and learning curve, part of it was down to the amazing communities, and part of it was down to the fact the game was build as a world and not a fairground ride. I've played a lot of MMO's but EQ was cut from a different cloth. Everything about this game was special - the names of the spells and equipment was like a celebration of the English language - no "Fireblast" bullshit here, it was "Funeral Pyre of Kelador" or "Garrison's Superior Sundering". Tying lore into the names just made you want to find out who these people were. And the dungeons were the most complex and dangerous (and, ultimately, rewarding) I've had the pleasure of experiencing. Because of EverQuest, I have an appreciation and respect for the worlds designers create.

EverQuest isn't just my favourite rpg, it's my favourite game, full stop. I cherish the memories of that chaotic, beautiful, magic world.

Fallout 3. 3 Points. I knew I was in for something special as the radio started playing "I Don't Want To Set The World On Fire", the camera pulled back to reveal the bus, and further back out of the busted window to reveal the landscape of the Capital Wasteland as a member of the Brotherhood of Steel turns to face the camera, looking suitably badass. This game is still entertaining me today, there is so much stuff to discover its ridiculous and I love Bethesda's commitment to the modding community. There is something unique about the atmosphere of this game that I find irresistibly compelling. I have never tired of it and probably never will.

Final Fantasy 7. I can't remember how it happened, I think I was in a shop queue. I saw a magazine with this blond spikey haired dude on the cover. He looked pretty stupid, but for whatever reason I picked up the magazine and flicked through it to a preview of a game called Final Fantasy 7. I picked up other magazines and found out more info on this game. And I realised I had to buy it, and buy a PS1 to play it on. So I did and I played the hell out of the game. The size of the damn world blew my mind, the characters were likeable, I loved playing around with the materia system. It was just so... epic. Kick-started my love affair with japanese rpg's.

Path of Exile. This game is still in beta, but I don't feel it's at all premature of me to list it. I didn't think there'd be a game to replace Diablo 2 for me, but here we are and here it is. The crazy amount of customisation options are staggering - from melee casters to caster melee and all points inbetween. Every time someone see's the skill tree for the first time their minds are full of fuck, but it's not as complex or intimidating when you begin to use it. I think about this game when I'm not playing it. That's always a good sign imo. Ladder and league events are weekly, with the devs giving out prizes. The Diablo 2 homage is strong in this game, but it's actually a tad darker and there's a unique spin on potions. If you're a Diablo 2 fan, I could not possibly recommend Path of Exile strongly enough. It's just that damn good. And speaking of Diablo 2..

Diablo 2. I like loot. I like loot with stats. I like loot with stats and I like to theorycraft. I'm not very good at it, but I like doing it. I didn't realise any of that until I played Diablo 2, and spent hundreds, maybe thousands of hours playing this game. If you are a fan of this genre, Diablo 2 is on your altar. Ladders and leagues gave the game legs and the expansion, Lord of Destruction added more classes and runewords which really elevated the game to god-tier status among its fans. D2 took the core concepts of loot addiction in D1 and improved on it immensely. This is a classic game; it looks a bit long in the tooth today, and I'd probably direct anyone wanting to dip their feet into this genre for the first time to Path of Exile. But D2 still has those addictive loot-chasing characteristics that time can't diminish.

 

[Labadal]

And I thought my backlog was bad!

This one stood out to me though. Is Bastion an RPG? If so, I'd have to revise my list...

I'll find out soon enough.

Looks like an action rpg from what little I have seen, but I might be wrong. I've avoided reading much about it so I don't spoil myself.

 

[zkylon]

And I thought my backlog was bad!

This one stood out to me though. Is Bastion an RPG? If so, I'd have to revise my list...

Action RPG fits it pretty well.

 

[Ath]

My Top 10 Favourite RPGs:

1) Xenoblade Chronicles (3 points) - I adore this game, it really does represent everything I love about video games. The sense of exploration was immense, the characters lovable and endearing and the story gripping and well-told. The game itself was just a pleasure to play from beginning to end. I found myself lost just exploring the world, with plenty of distractions along the way. The battle system was refreshing and a lot of fun, especially with all the banter flying about. Terrific voice acting too, really refreshing to have a British cast (complete with some names that I recognise off the telly!). Finally the soundtrack is just perfect. I can't praise this game enough, Tetsuya Takahashi and Monolith Soft knocked it out the park!

2) Final Fantasy V - My favourite Final Fantasy of them all. The job system was just so much fun to play around with, coming up with all sorts of different combinations made battles really interesting. I really appreciated the generally warm and light-hearted tone of the story, though it certainly wasn't short on dramatic moments either. Gilgamesh is one of my favourite characters in all of Final Fantasy as well.

3) Grandia - Until Xenoblade came along, this was the game that best captured the sense of adventure that my favourite RPGs have. It really felt like I was off on a journey through uncharted worlds. The combat system was very satisfying and never outstayed its welcome. Grandia is one of those games that can be summed up just by its main theme.

4) Chrono Trigger - There's not much else I can say about this game. Everything about it just works.

5) Pokemon Yellow - Hours and hours of my childhood battling and trading with my friends, so much fun. I loved all the rumours about the game that I'd hear in the playground at school. "Mew is hidden underneath a lorry!" "Missingno evolves into Kangaskhan!" (Which was true!) "The next game will have a Pokemon called Pikablu!". It always felt like there were hidden secrets to be discovered.

6) Final Fantasy IX - There's a timeless quality to FFIX that resonates strongly with me. It also has one of my favourite casts in all RPGs, Vivi being my favourite Final Fantasy character ever, but Zidane was a fine lead. The ability system was satisfying, the world lovingly designed and the story very well done.

7) Final Fantasy VI - Some of my most favourite moments of video game storytelling ever are in this game. Couple that to one of the most endearing casts in RPG history along with a terrific battle system and one of the greatest video game soundtracks ever and you have a classic. Celes' theme is my single favourite character theme of all time.

8) Golden Sun - This was an RPG that was in the right place at the right time, I was about 12 when it came out. There was a certain atmosphere about the world that drew me in, I think the music and art style really helped with that. The battle system was fun and I liked messing about with the Djinn system as well, and the environmental puzzles were great.

9) Super Mario RPG - I first discovered this game when I was in Bangladesh, and a friend of mine with a SNES had a copy of the Japanese manual. I didn't think Mario and RPG was a natural fit. Then I finally played the game and I was proven utterly wrong. The timing-based battle system was excellent and the world was a joy to explore. The story was absolutely hilarious as well ("He knows about timed hits!").

10) Radiant Historia - This game makes my top 10 because of the way the gameplay serves the story. Being about time-travel and parallel histories, being able to jump between points in time really elevated this game for me. I really felt like I was making a difference by changing history, and crucially, I wanted to make a difference due to the characters and the story. The battle system I found a lot of fun, the art-style very appealing and the music amazing. My single complaint is the sound effect used when you select something in the menu or when you advance dialogue. It sounds like rubbing sandpaper

Honourable Mentions:

1) Mario and Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story - It was hard to pick between this or Superstar Saga, but I went with Bowser. Quite simply, it's one of the most hilarious games I've ever played. Playing as Bowser was just too much fun. Also I HAVE FURY!

2) Pokemon Gold and Silver - It improved upon everything from the 1st generation games, it was a colossal leap forward for Pokemon. Being able to explore Kanto again after finishing Johto was mind-blowing.

3) Earthbound - Refreshing, charming and surprisingly moving, Earthbound will always have a special place in my heart. I really need to get round to Mother 3...

4) The Last Story - Another bold step forward for the JRPG, I really enjoyed The Last Story. It's a great example of a game where it's more about the cast than the story, and it has one of my favourite casts in a game ever, the banter between Syrenne and Lowell being a highlight. The battle system was terrific fun and it was a pleasure to play through. I got to meet Hironobu Sakaguchi as well which was awesome!

5) Tales of Graces F - Been rediscovering the Tales series lately, it was quite hard to pick one but I decided to go with Graces. I went in with super-low expectations of the cast and story, but I was pleasantly surprised how much I liked both. The childhood section was a bit clumsy, but it worked as events later on had a greater resonance. The battle system is what makes this game though, easily the finest of all the Tales games I've played. My few complaints are the design of the dungeons (too repetitive and identikit) and the high amount of backtracking.

Unranked Honourable Mentions:

Breath of Fire III - I'm really fond of II and IV as well, but I decided to pick III here. I really liked the atmosphere of the game and the battle system was a lot of fun. The jazzy soundtrack is another one of my faves too.

Chrono Cross - I really appreciated what they were trying to do with Chrono Cross. The story's a bit of a mess at times and there are waaaaay too many characters. However, the game is flat out gorgeous, the battle system is a lot of fun and it has one of the greatest soundtracks ever.

Final Fantasy IV - I'm still quite fond of IV, it has a terrific soundtrack and I really empathised with Cecil's journey from Dark Knight to Paladin.

Final Fantasy VII - Still a classic, ambitious as hell and a great RPG. I just prefer some of the other entries in the series, it's definitely my 4th favourite Final Fantasy though.

Final Fantasy Mystic Quest - My first EVER RPG, it did it's job well! Awesome soundtrack too

Golden Sun: The Lost Age - I'm one of the few that prefers the 1st game to The Lost Age. While I really appreciated the point of view flip and the new story developments of TLA, I thought the dungeons became too long and I didn't like the other characters as much as the original crew. Still good though.

Grandia 2- An excellent sequel, with the same amazing battle system and a pretty good story. The sense of adventure from the first game isn't quite there though, but I really liked the cast.

Legend of Dragoon - Cliched as hell, but it looked gorgeous and I love the battle system and music.

The World Ends With You - So much style, and a great (if sometimes overwhelming) battle system combine with an awesome soundtrack and good story.

Tales of the Abyss - At the beginning, I thought it was going to set a record for the most unlikeable cast ever in a JRPG. Thankfully a lot of them came good, especially Luke, and now I only dislike some of the cast .

Xenogears...until I got stuck in the damn sewers of Nortune and gave up

I need to play more Western RPGs for sure. Also, I've never owned a PS2, so I've got a lot to catch up on there!

 

[Buttons]

My list has not changed much since last year, but here goes.

Final Fantasy IX: My favourite game of all time. I love the story and the characters, I found the gameplay to be so much fun that I have finished the game multiple times. I love how you learn new abilities through gear, you are always searching for new items. The cast is quirky and funny, the spell animations are over the top and Vivi is just such an amazing character. There are also many various party setups that work nicely and the game has one of my favourite soundtracks of all time. I also loved the sidequests such as Chocobo Hot and Cold.

Xenoblade: The game that totally took me my surprise. A huge world with so many quests and content that it puts many MMOs to shame. I like the characters, especially Riki. Both the English and Japanese voice acting are amazing. Not to mention the interesting turns in the storyline. Overall it's the one of those RPGs that everyone who enjoys the RPG genre should try.

PoPoLoCrois: (+3 points) One of the first RPGs that was released for the PSP and all these years later it is still one of my favourite games. It's a combination of the PoPoLoCrois PSOne games that were available in Japan only. It has an amazingly quirky cast, amazing music and a very charming story. Those that like the direction that Ni no Kuni is going in definitely need to try this old-school JRPG. It really is an underrated and often forgotten game that deserves way more attention.

Final Fantasy VI: My favourite 2D Final Fantasy. Absolutely amazing cast and storyline. Kefka has to be one of the best and most insane villains ever. It has one of my favourite soundtracks to date. A must play. It is the one game that I hope will some-day get a proper remake because the characters and story and world have so potential.

Romancing Saga: Minstrel Song: One of my favourite PS2 games. While it does have some very unconventional systems which discourage you from grinding and practically requires you to use a guide, this game is one of my all-time favourites. I love the characters and the unique art-style. This game has my favourite battle system in any RPG game ever. Turn based, with each character being able to use multiple weapons. You can chain the skills to create vortexes, powerful combos. This game has some of the most over the top animations and I love it! I really wish more games still had such amazing battle animations.

Final Fantasy X: I remember how I had bought this game before I even owned a PS2. I was blown away by the graphics and storyline once I started playing and to this day I love the turn based battle system. I prefer it over the fancy shmancy fast-paced action systems that games have nowadays. I am really looking forward to the HD release.

Final Fantasy VIII: My first Final Fantasy. It still has a special place in my heart. I found the story very interesting and it has the best love story in a video game in my opinion. I really loved the graphics back in the day. While I may prefer games such as FFIX over this one, I still love it and fondly remember the GF system and the beautiful music. I put so many hours into this game and just love the atmosphere and the music and watching the over-the-top GF animations.

Final Fantasy XI: I was not sure whether I would put this on here or not due to it being a MMORPG. But looking back at the years I spent playing the game I have so many fond memories. The storylines were absolutely amazing and still blow most other FF games out of the water, the soundtrack is so amazing that I listen to it regularly still and the world is so expansive. Since this is the list for our favourite RPGs of all time FFXI definitely deserves a spot, thank you for all the fun memories.

Chrono Trigger: Just an amazingly fun game with lovable characters and a very interesting storyline. If you can get the DS version, play it!




Honourable mentions:



Pokemon SoulSilver. Classic Pokemon done right. Plus I can see my Psyduck following me on-screen, enough said.

Radiant Historia. Time-travelling done right. Interesting plot and characters and charming style.

Suikoden Tierkreis: Critically underrated game, a very solid, enjoyable RPG that is unfortunately hated by many for not being "Suikoden" enough.

Disgaea: Quirky Strategy RPG done right. Be warned, it is addictive and you will spend so many hours grinding that you'll probably forget to ever finish the game.

Tales of Graces f. While the story may be weak this colourful game has one of the most addictive battle systems I have ever come across. Since the PS3 JRPG options are pretty lackluster, I would recommend this to anyone who wants to play a fun JRPG on a HD console.

If I take a look at my gigantic JRPG collection and backlog I notice that there are tons of good games but my list does not change that much. Especially following the good line-up of PS2 JRPGs, the PS3 generation was sadly very disappointing, I hope Ni no Kuni will satisfy my JRPG itch next year.

 

[Giran]

Chrono Trigger - Unparalleled charm, excellent soundtrack, lots of replayability, clever use of time hopping to different eras. When you open up the dictionary at the word adventure, it may as well have a picture of this game there.

Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines - Deus Ex with vampires. A surprisingly accurate description with the amount of possibilites open to you, but it's much heavier on the RPG elements than DE. You can tackle situations in lots of ways, how you develop your character and even the race you pick at the very beginning may completely alter your play style. The game's style, writing and atmosphere are superb.

Final Fantasy Tactics - While I feel the game doesn't do nearly enough with its cast, it more than makes up for it in gameplay.

Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic - A bit on the easy and simplistic side but this game is a terrific package despite that. Excellent art direction and music, memorable cast, a plot twist that people bring up to this day and it captured that classic Star Wars charm perfectly.

Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance - The title that finally (and briefly) returned FE to the big screen. I mostly prefer this FE over others for its characters and storytelling, I felt more connected to the events than in previous and later entries. Not to mention it brought some new mechanics to the table that make it hard to go back to its predecessors. Normal mode was a tad easy though.

Dark Souls - Challenging and rewarding, exploring the eerie locations of Dark Souls for the first time will be an unforgettable experience to many ARPG fans.

Valkyrie Profile (3 points) - You're a badass valkyrie who flies around the world recruiting exceptional warriors on the verge of death to your side in order to prepare for the end of the world. Each of those warriors have their own tale to tell. It has dungeon crawling with some platforming mixed in, the combo-based combat system is simple and fun. The game had some very nice designs and catchy tunes from Motoi Sakuraba. And unlike most JRPGs of the time, it had voice acting - but more importantly no random encounters, which was a most welcome change for me. Unfortunately, getting the "true end" requires some meticulous effort, you basically need a guide; but as they say the journey is what's important and I felt it was great.

Kingdom Hearts - The amalgamation of two very popular franchises. Smiting evil in Disney worlds with cameos from popular SE titles was just a nostalgia-fueled joyride. Character customization, synthesizing, arena, optional bosses, hidden treasure, even a SHMUP minigame - the game had quite a bit of content. The mechanics were easy to grasp but hard to master. The characters were endearing, the plot and themes were simple and clean (a principle its sequels didn't quite follow.) Unfortunately, the camera takes some getting used to.

Planescape Torment - Hard to top this one when it comes to writing and setting. If you play using your brain rather than your brawn (because you can do that) then it practically becomes a choose your adventure book with small interactive sections slipped in.

Xenoblade Chronicles - While I felt a lot more effort could've gone into the optional content, along with less dependancy on lowering level gaps and more on battle strategy, not to mention the party members' AI; Xenoblade was an absolutely terrific experience. The characters are likable, the vistas and the art direction are amazing, along with the music that even cycles between day and night themes. The sense of scale is stunning and the silly plot has just the right amount of twists and mysteries to get you hooked. The journey through the Bionis is not one I will soon forget.

Honorable mentions:
Deus Ex - This may or may not be an RPG to you depending on your definition so I felt it's more appropriate to include it here instead of the main list. A fantastic game, and one where you can discover new things in each and every playthrough.

Mount & Blade: Warband - The one melee combat system to rule them all. It may not offer much when it comes to anything else that isn't combat but that one thing it does well, it does extremely well. Enough to sink dozens of hours into it without getting bored.

 

[BeesEight]

It's got most of the features that make up an Action RPG. It's also classified as such on Wikipedia, Steam, XBLA, Gamespot, etc. I don't think it is that far of a stretch.

Hm, I'd never even considered it... bah, it's too late to change the list now. I'll need to keep it in mind come next year.

 

[Lancehead]

I updated my post with banners. I tried to keep things as simple as possible. The MotB banner could be better, but bigger size images of Kaelyn simply aren't there.

 

[kswiston]

I updated my post with banners. I tried to keep things as simple as possible. The MotB banner could be better, but bigger size images of Kaelyn simply aren't there.

They look good to me!

I am loving all the extra effort people are putting into their lists this year.



I'm not sure if we are just getting a lot of new participants this time around, but it's looking like there are going to be some significant changes to the contents and order of the aggregate list this time around.

Some things stay the same though. Final Fantasy VI is most recommended title in its series by a wide margin, while Final Fantasy II holds the distinction of last place with 0 votes.

 

[cartman414]

Xenoblade Chronicles (3 points)
I didn't get bored once in over 100 hours. Not many other games, and certainly no other RPGs, have done that for me.
Also, amazing environments, incredible music, British voice acting, likeable characters etc. The combat could be better, and some of the sidequests are a bit simplistic, but it's still an incredible experience.

Chrono Trigger
As a European, I didn't get to play this until the DS release. It was pretty good. The battle system feels a little dated these days, but I've yet to see another game that does combination attacks quite as well. Timeless story (if you don't mind my pun) etc etc.

Pokemon HeartGold/SoulSilver
Although I prefer Black/White on a gameplay level

Spoiler

and Pokemon designs too

, HeartGold/SoulSilver bring back Pokemon as it was at its peak. Seeing as the Pokemon series get better with each game, it's difficult to choose any particular (pair of) titles for all-time best, as they'll just get bettered later. HG/SS represent Pokemon best in my opinion.

The World Ends With You
An RPG set in modern-day Tokyo, with a graffiti-inspired art style and J-pop filled soundtrack? Not the most conventional RPG, but a breath of fresh air that worked out very well. My main gripe is the terrible difficulty curve on the battle system that made me give up quite early on - once I got the hang of it, the battle system was a ton of fun.

Dragon Quest V
Favourite family in a video game. Even though the battle system is now rather archaic, the story is as good as ever. Loses points for out-of-nowhere final boss though.

You can't complain about the battle system if you have Pokemon on your list.

 

[kswiston]

You can't complain about the battle system if you have Pokemon on your list.

What's wrong with Pokemon's battle system (besides the horrendously slow text)?

 

[tadcalabash]

1) Ultima 7: The Black Gate (3 points) - One of my first loves, still one of the most fully realized RPG worlds I've played around in.

2) Mass Effect 2 - A perfect blend of storytelling, action, cinematics, and choice.

3) The Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind - A more unique and fascinating world than Oblivion and Skyrim, I lost so many hours digging into the depth of this game.

4) Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic - Star Wars expanded fiction done right, with some classic roleplaying mechanics as well.

5) World of Warcraft - Its absurd how many hours I've spent on this game off and on over the past 7 years. Still improving and remains satisfying.

6) Fallout 3 - All the best gameplay of The Elder Scrolls in a greatly realized post apocalyptic setting.

7) Dragon Age: Origins - I missed out on the old Baldurs Gate games, but this absurdly huge game made me feel like an old pro.

8) Deus Ex - I played the demo level repeatedly for weeks... not surprising that the full game lived up to the hype.

9) Final Fantasy 9 - While I didn't have the nostalgia for all the old Final Fantasies, this game still satisfied.

10) The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim - Gorgeous, polished, and expansive.


Honorable Mentions


11) Diablo III - Despite the failure of the Auction House and its effect on the end game economy, this was still an amazing experience.

12) Fable II - Quirky British humor in a very cohesive and fun package.

 

[Derrick01]

Deus Ex (3 points)- Greatest level design in a video game ever and more freedom and quality of exploration than most normal RPGs. I gave up caring whether to put this on a RPG list or not when I started seeing things like Castlevania Symphony of the Night and Mass Effect 2.

Fallout New Vegas- The true Fallout 3 and the best example on how to make a rpg in today's era. Amazing writing and quest design.

The Elder Scrolls III Morrowind- The only Bethesda game really worth mentioning at all. It began the modern ES formula and perfected it at the same time.

Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic II- Obsidian took control of this series from Bioware and showed them how to make a RPG in less time and with much more interference and still came out with a game that was better in every single way.

World of Warcraft- Say what you want about what happened to the MMO genre after this game but hate the copycats not the innovator. Some of the most fun moments I've ever had in the RPG genre came during raids or assassinating people in the opposite faction.

 

[Anth0ny]

1) Pokemon Red/Blue - The beginning of the phenomenon. Despite popular belief, still holds up very well today. Charming characters, fantastic pacing and a simple, but memorable story, Pokemon Red/Blue is one of my top 10 games of all time, and on any given day, my favorite RPG of all time. However...

2) Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal - ... Gen 2 comes pretty close. My favorite sequels of all time, GSC follows up on the original games perfectly. Going back to Kanto, the region from the first game, was mind blowing as a kid, and even today you don't often see such fanservice. The final boss is one of the greatest moments in gaming, and the music is my favorite final boss music of all time. The remakes are great too!

3) Chrono Trigger - Without a doubt my favorite Square game of all time. Some of the best character designs, music, and above all else, PACING in an RPG I've ever seen. The dream team did not disappoint. You might yell "nostalgia!" at me for my first two picks, but I played Chrono Trigger for the first time in 2010 on the DS and it blew my fucking balls off. Without a doubt one of the greatest games ever made. They just don't make em like this anymore...

4) Dark Souls - My game of the generation. One of the few games to bring back that child like wonder I experienced while playing games like Ocarina of Time all those years ago. I thought I was just too old and jaded, then Dark Souls came into my life. I got lost in the world for months, and even still after 100 hours, I can't stop playing. The world, the lore, the difficulty, the collectables, the combat system, the bosses... I can endlessly praise this game. It's as close to perfect as a game has come for me in the past 6 years.

5) Paper Mario - I give the N64 classic a nod over the incredible Gamecube sequel simply due to the pacing issues that I felt hurt TTYD (still a fantastic game worth playing!). Paper Mario has some of the best and most charming writing I've ever seen in a video game, and the partner/badge system is super fun. I spent hours exploring the world in this game, and I really need to play it again.

 

[cartman414]

What's wrong with Pokemon's battle system (besides the horrendously slow text)?

* tilts head * It's highly reminiscent of Dragon Quest.

 

[spirity]

World of Warcraft- Say what you want about what happened to the MMO genre after this game but hate the copycats not the innovator. Some of the most fun moments I've ever had in the RPG genre came during raids or assassinating people in the opposite faction.

Whoah, hold on a minute.

I'm not 'that' guy - the one who picks at someones votes because I disagree with them. This is not the thread for that sort of thing. If someone wanted to list Big Rigs as their favourite game of all time, who am I to tell them they're wrong.

But Derrick01, you project this hardcore rpg gamer persona that doesn't like the way rpg's today are being streamlined, made casual friendly, given accessibility, made easy. You've complained about how the 'rp' is being removed from the 'rpg' (and I wouldn't disagree with you). Well, WoW is all of those things - one long, protracted pop culture reference, where you're rewarded even for being unskilled. You've said before how you hated Skyrim's MMO style quests. Guess what game it was that popularised them? WoW took the mmorpg formula, removed freedoms people enjoyed before it came along, and recycled the genre with a new, casual friendly twist and a bunch of cant-do-thats. No levitation, no invisibility, cant kill him or her, spreadsheet generated loot, etc.

I dunno. I don't like picking on peoples votes as I've said before, but I find this one amazingly ironic given its you thats championing it. While WoW does what it does extremely well, how do you reconcile your stance on rpgs with that vote? Its not consistent at all.

 

[Derrick01]

WoW is what you choose to get out of it, or was at some time. I don't play it anymore and haven't in a couple of years so I don't know where it is now. But if you wanted it to be an amazingly deep and complex game you could, or if you just wanted to log in for 10 hours a week and PVP you could do that too.

But I won't listen to anyone who tries to tell me it's not or wasn't a hardcore RPG. I spent dozens of hours managing a spreadsheet for my guild's roster and raid rewards and also spent untold hours fine tuning my gear and finding out how to crunch out every decimal point of DPS possible for me. I spent well over a hundred hours working on intricate strategies for raid bosses that were well above where our guild should have been but due to the hard work from me and about 10 other officers we eventually beat them all.

I can make the argument it's deeper and tougher than any other wrpg or jrpg I've ever played and I've pretty much played all of the mid tier and top tier ones. The amount of work and strategy I had to put in to that game is rivaled only by some of those grand-strategy Paradox games.

 

[kswiston]

* tilts head * It's highly reminiscent of Dragon Quest.

I read the post quickly and thought you were referring to his complaint about Xenoblade's battle system. To be fair, he did complain about the battle systems of pretty much every game he listed, so it wasn't obvious which game you were taking exception to

WoW is what you choose to get out of it, or was at some time. I don't play it anymore and haven't in a couple of years so I don't know where it is now. But if you wanted it to be an amazingly deep and complex game you could, or if you just wanted to log in for 10 hours a week and PVP you could do that too.

But I won't listen to anyone who tries to tell me it's not or wasn't a hardcore RPG. I spent dozens of hours managing a spreadsheet for my guild's roster and raid rewards and also spent untold hours fine tuning my gear and finding out how to crunch out every decimal point of DPS possible for me. I spent well over a hundred hours working on intricate strategies for raid bosses that were well above where our guild should have been but due to the hard work from me and about 10 other officers we eventually beat them all.

I can make the argument it's deeper and tougher than any other wrpg or jrpg I've ever played and I've pretty much played all of the mid tier and top tier ones. The amount of work and strategy I had to put in to that game is rivaled only by some of those grand-strategy Paradox games.

I definitely don't think that WoW was a casual MMO (well at least before 4.0, it's pretty streamlined nowadays), but I can see where Spirity is coming from since it WAS streamlined compared to things like Everquest and Final Fantasy XI. That said, both of those games were extremely slow and often frustrating (even outside of raids). Players used to sit around for days camping a single rare-spawn mob in the hopes of getting some rare drop they needed. I'm not sure why we considered that fun at the time. The games were amazing for their time period, but I doubt many of the people who started with WoW would want to go back and play Everquest, even if it did have more role playing.

 

[HiddenWings]

I keep meaning to add my thoughts to this thread, so here goes.

The List

Final Fantasy V - This is probably not a surprise to anyone who's paid attention to the fiesta thread. Final Fantasy V is my favorite of the SNES Final Fantasies, and potentially my favorite in the series (IX, X, and X-2 are the other contenders). The job system as manifested in FFV is my favorite way to multi-class in any RPG I've played thus far.

Final Fantasy Tactics A2 - So sue me, I played Tactics Advance before the original Tactics, and this is a (mostly) better version of that one. See the above re: Job system, with the added complication of races.

Shadow Hearts 2 - The continuing adventures of a shapeshifter. The Judgment Ring system is fun, the characters are all interesting (except for the female lead, who exists to keep the party somewhat grounded in reality), and I like the battle system.

Legend of Dragoon - A lot of this is nostalgia, but it turns out I still like this game. Some things that annoy people (like the addition system, Meru, and the eons-long final boss fight) I like quite a bit. A big strike against it is the inconsistent translation.

Pokemon Heart Gold/Soul Silver - In terms of sheer content, these are pretty much the biggest pokemon games released so far. Having your pokemon follow you is a nice touch that I can't figure out why they haven't kept.

Kingdom Hearts - I'm a bit conflicted on which entry to put here, so I'm just going with the one that started it. I like the whole series, nonsensical plot points and all.

World of Warcraft - I was hardcore during Wrath, and have played off-and on since. If I ever find out what makes this game more fun to actually play than the many imitators, I'll let you know.

Chrono Trigger - I could stick this game on the list just for the music. Other people have said enough about this that I don't feel a need to expand.

Golden Sun 1+2 - These are really one game in two excellent parts. Home to some of the best graphics on the GBA and an interesting class system (that the game never really explains).

Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story - This list is showing me that apparently I like timed hits. I also like when a game can be actually funny. Fawful is a great villain, Bowser is a great "hero", and the supporting cast is also good.

Honorable Mentions

Mass Effect 2 - The best entry in the trilogy. Fixes a lot of the problems from 1, and has wonderful writing. It has some downsides (like the new weapon/armor system), but I still prefer it.

Radiata Stories - The main character is a poster child for the clueless hero, but this game has some interesting things going on if you can get past the somewhat slow start and not-terribly-deep battle system.

Final Fantasy X-2 - See above.

Pokemon Red/Blue - This is the first RPG I got into ever, so it deserves a place on this list somewhere.

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - Probably because a bunch of this was streamlined from Oblivion, I enjoyed it a lot more. I am everything wrong with WRPGs, apparently.

Unranked Honorable Mentions

Radiant Historia - I never finished this, and I was enjoying it, so I'm not sure why.

Final Fantasy Tactics - "'Tis your birth and faith that wrong you, not I."

Diablo 3 - This was fun, while it lasted. Most of my friends stopped playing soon after beating normal, so it didn't last that long.

The World Ends with You - A casualty of the fact that there are only 15 upper spots. Unique gameplay that takes advantage of the system it's on is a big plus.

The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Credit where credit's due, this game introduced me to Western RPGs in general.

Rogue Galaxy - Another game I was enjoying but didn't finish, although I know the reason for this one. From what I did play, it was a quality ARPG with interesting characters.

 

[spirity]

WoW is what you choose to get out of it, or was at some time. I don't play it anymore and haven't in a couple of years so I don't know where it is now. But if you wanted it to be an amazingly deep and complex game you could, or if you just wanted to log in for 10 hours a week and PVP you could do that too.

But I won't listen to anyone who tries to tell me it's not or wasn't a hardcore RPG. I spent dozens of hours managing a spreadsheet for my guild's roster and raid rewards and also spent untold hours fine tuning my gear and finding out how to crunch out every decimal point of DPS possible for me. I spent well over a hundred hours working on intricate strategies for raid bosses that were well above where our guild should have been but due to the hard work from me and about 10 other officers we eventually beat them all.

I can make the argument it's deeper and tougher than any other wrpg or jrpg I've ever played and I've pretty much played all of the mid tier and top tier ones. The amount of work and strategy I had to put in to that game is rivaled only by some of those grand-strategy Paradox games.

Its a hardcore RPG, if you're talking depth and breadth. But its the most casual MMORPG you can play, save for something like Free Realms. The pvp is a trivial e-sport, with no server politics enforced by guilds or alliances that lock shit down. Its just a leaderboard excursion in collecting points. WoW removed a lot of the freedom from mmo's, you can't just decide to go rogue and kill people or npcs in your own faction, there's very little emergent gameplay allowed, the game is a long string of memes with Mr T hats and Leeroy Jenkins jokes. Stuff like levitation, popular in older games, is strictly off the cards for Blizzard. Same with invisibility, which has been tweaked to be "stealth" - its not invis. You play WoW as the designers want you to play - staring at a quest log, killing 10 bears, and you're told exactly where to go and find those bears. These aren't even quests, they're errands. Shit an intern is tasked with to learn the mechanics and add 'content'. And you do this all in the strict confines of rigid progression, determined by spreadsheets. That's not 'hardcore'. That's sterile and safe.

It is the Modern Warfare of MMO's. Highly polished and solid, but extremely broad in its appeal. It casts a wide net, and while you can obsess over dkp and dps, so what? That was already being done, to a higher degree and more complexity, by other mmorpg's.

 

[spirity]

I definitely don't think that WoW was a casual MMO (well at least before 4.0, it's pretty streamlined nowadays), but I can see where Spirity is coming from since it WAS streamlined compared to things like Everquest and Final Fantasy XI. That said, both of those games were extremely slow and often frustrating (even outside of raids). Players used to sit around for days camping a single rare-spawn mob in the hopes of getting some rare drop they needed. I'm not sure why we considered that fun at the time. The games were amazing for their time period, but I doubt many of the people who started with WoW would want to go back and play Everquest, even if it did have more role playing.

I thought long and hard about which game to give the three points to. EQ is the best game I've ever played, that part was easy to decide. But the three points? I couldn't honestly give it to EQ, because I couldn't honestly recommend that game to anyone today (not that my 3 points would see EQ into Gafs top 10 - I'd be surprised if it was even in the top 50). It really hasn't aged well, both aesthetically and mechanically. Bad 3rd person, clunky controls, low pop servers. So F3 got the three points. But EQ in its prime was something else. UO, EQ, FF11, even SWG - these games are not being made today for obvious reasons. But I feel there is a market for them. A niche market, sure. But a dedicated and loyal one. Vanguard kind of screwed up any hopes of an old school mmorpg being made, but that was a failure in execution, not necessarily a failure in design or vision.

As an aside, I don't want to bring the thread down with griping about other members votes. I know its not supposed to be about that, so respectfully I'll stop clogging it up.

 

[kswiston]

But EQ in its prime was something else. UO, EQ, FF11, even SWG - these games are not being made today for obvious reasons. But I feel there is a market for them. A niche market, sure. But a dedicated and loyal one.

The market for those old-school MMOs are still playing the same games they have been for the past 10-15 years (minus SWG of course, unless there are shard servers up somewhere).

Eve Online managed to do well in a niche that will never expand past a few hundred thousand players. If a company was willing to make a very moderately budgeted MMO, they could could create something that is closer to EQ or UO in complexity, but with a less-obtuse interface, and survive without the majority of mainstream gamers. However, it seems like everyone is more interested in chasing that WoW money, or finding ways to maximize microtransactions in the F2P model.


Back on Topic. We are getting close to 150 participants. I feel pretty confident that (with two weeks to go) we can at least match last year's participation level (~200) even if things slow down. I don't think wrpg fans (or jrpg detractors) will be happy with the way things are going, but everyone will have had a fair chance to vote.

 

[HiddenSentry]

1) Baldur’s Gate 2: Shadows of Amn – Favorite game of all time. Memorable cast of characters, massive world to explore, an utterly perfect villain, and interesting and intense combat situations. Not to mention its frankly ageless graphics. It’s hard for me to imagine any other game ever topping this one for me (in any genre).

2) Mass Effect 2 – This is the one where I think they perfected it. It isn’t a perfect game, and at this point for me, it’s systems are pretty glaringly obvious. Conversations devolve into just always picking the option that appears in specific places. The paragon/renegade system is too black and white. Having no one die on the suicide mission is pretty easy (it should have been nearly impossible, but ME is not that hardcore of a game). The resource gathering ‘mini’-game is anything but, and can be mind-numbing. I feel all of that because I’ve played and beaten ME2 more times than any other game. I could go and play it right now, and lose the rest of my day. The world is engrossing, the characters are interesting, the combat is satisfying, and the graphics are artistically great (to say nothing about also being technically great, which it is at the moment).

3) Planescape: Torment – Story in games. Every other game has a lot of room to grow before it nudges this off the top. Haunting. The combat is a pile of garbage, and for the love of god, play a high WIS/INT class off the bat.

4) Dragon Age: Origins – The modern day BG2! It’s here because it tried to do what BG2 did, and it came close enough to be really enjoyable. I didn’t enjoy the expansion as much, unless by enjoy you mean completely devastate everything on Nightmare with a single character. Losing the interesting combat (I’d just let everyone else die and kill it all with my rogue) really hurt the moment to moment fun. Maybe they patched that.

5) The Witcher 2 – I regard this game very highly in a number of areas. The graphics are top-notch. The ‘story’ (world, characters, what you do, how you choose) is wonderful. The combat took some getting used to, but I eventually came around. The choice at the end of the 1st act, and how it changes the 2nd act is astonishing.

6) Valkyria Chronicles – I was surprised by this game. The combat scenarios in the game were what really held me and kept me going, but the characters weren’t too bad. I’m not a huge JRPG fan, but it was still really fun.

7) Diablo 2 – Dear Diablo 2, I’d like about 2 years back. I’m preeeeetty sure Mephisto is dead now.

8) Alpha Protocol – A modern day stealth shooter with a Mass Effect (But BETTER) conversation system. PLAY WITH THE PISTOL AND STEALTH. It kind of kills the character customization, but it’s worth it.

9) Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic – Great story. I don’t remember a ton of this game, but what I do remember deserves to be on this list.

10) Beyond Good and Evil – Haven’t seen this listed, and that may be because no one considers it a RPG, and that’s fair.

Honorable Mentions:
1) Risen – Magical first act. Rock Paper Shotgun’s diary thing about this game sold me. A surprisingly small world, given how large it seems, but that’s really a compliment. Of all open world RPGs, I think this game nails the feeling of being in a hostile environment. The ‘lowly’ boar will murder you. The slightly ridiculous ostrich thing will murder you. You will run from fights. But you’ll also be forced to master a decent combat system, and USE it. It’s a bit like Demon’s Souls in that regard.

2) Path of Exile – Heir apparent to Diablo 2’s throne for ARPG for me. Deadly world, really cool skill system and passive skill/stat tree. Looking forward to open-beta.

3) Guild Wars 2 – I play a lot of it. I like it.

4) Star Wars: The Old Republic: Imperial Agent Storyline: Chapter 1 - This is perhaps... too specific. I didn't like SWTOR enough to continue playing it after about 3 months, or to pick it back up post F2P. But hot damn is the IA storyline awesome. Maybe you'd need my exact circumstance to like it as much as I did, but I'll give it a Honorable Mention for that. I really liked the spy organization feel in a world dominated by mind-controlling/reading all powerful.. wizards. And you? You've got a knife. No no, its cool, You got this. The troopers and bounty hunters and snipers are gonna shoot things from afar. Pussies. You're going to take a knife to a jedi fight, and WIN. That approach to a story in the Star Wars universe is great.

On a separate note, I think this thread has convinced me to play Xenoblade: Chronicles.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

I'm doing my list now but I'm gonna explain why later on!

1. Star Ocean: The Second Story
2. Final Fantasy 6
3. Final Fantasy 9
4. Grandia
5. Lunar Silver Star Story Complete
6. Pokemon Platinum
7. Kingdom Hearts
8. Super Mario RPG
9. Radiatta Stories
10. Persona 4

 

[Lime]

It's funny to see so many one-sided divisions between complete JRPG lists and complete WRPG lists.

 

[djtiesto]

Back on Topic. We are getting close to 150 participants. I feel pretty confident that (with two weeks to go) we can at least match last year's participation level (~200) even if things slow down. I don't think wrpg fans (or jrpg detractors) will be happy with the way things are going, but everyone will have had a fair chance to vote.

Honestly really (pleasantly) surprised with this. It seems that within the past few years, more than ever, more GAFfers are picking up on PC gaming and the backlash towards anything Japanese is increasing. Not to mention more and more of the classic western RPGs are available via GOG and Steam for very low prices. For the price of one new game you can get pretty much every Ultima game, every one of the Infinity Engine games, Deus Ex, Anachronox, Fallout 1/2, and even maybe one or two of the more recent western RPGs.

It's funny to see so many one-sided divisions between complete JRPG lists and complete WRPG lists.

Why is it funny? It depends on what people prefer in their games. If people are more into stuff like battle systems, polish, lush and expansive soundtracks, and don't mind linearity/semi-linearity or anime-influence they are gonna go Japanese... but if people are less concerned about battle mechanics, bugs and jankiness, but like huge nonlinear worlds, dialogue options, western-fantasy/sci-fi-influence, and pen-and-paper derived role playing, they will go western. I am personally more surprised when the lists are more of a mix between the 2.

It's why I personally feel we should have separate western/Japanese RPG lists. I think it would be interesting to try and think about my top 10 western RPGs since as a genre it's far from my favorite, but I will play them ahead of some other genres I'm not into.

 

[Lime]

Funny in an interesting way, not derogatory.

 

[zkylon]

It's funny to see so many one-sided divisions between complete JRPG lists and complete WRPG lists.

I surprised myself with how many JRPGs I listed. Probably has to do with the PS1 era aging better for me than the PC golden era, maybe.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Honestly really (pleasantly) surprised with this. It seems that within the past few years, more than ever, more GAFfers are picking up on PC gaming and the backlash towards anything Japanese is increasing. Not to mention more and more of the classic western RPGs are available via GOG and Steam for very low prices. For the price of one new game you can get pretty much every Ultima game, every one of the Infinity Engine games, Deus Ex, Anachronox, Fallout 1/2, and even maybe one or two of the more recent western RPGs.



Why is it funny? It depends on what people prefer in their games. If people are more into stuff like battle systems, polish, lush and expansive soundtracks, and don't mind linearity/semi-linearity or anime-influence they are gonna go Japanese... but if people are less concerned about battle mechanics, bugs and jankiness, but like huge nonlinear worlds, dialogue options, western-fantasy/sci-fi-influence, and pen-and-paper derived role playing, they will go western. I am personally more surprised when the lists are more of a mix between the 2.

It's why I personally feel we should have separate western/Japanese RPG lists. I think it would be interesting to try and think about my top 10 western RPGs since as a genre it's far from my favorite, but I will play them ahead of some other genres I'm not into.

Then I'd get in trouble for where I'd put some of mine due to their playstyles not country of origin/art.

 

[Goldmund]

I finished my descriptions now, although I guess no one's going to read them, anyway, since there are no fancy headers floating above each pick.

 

[sammyCYBORG]

1. Final Fantasy X - One of my favourite Final Fantasy games (the top three is in constant fluctuation). I adore the sphere grid, the level of customization you have over your characters and the access you can grant yourself to high level spells early in the game is wonderful. Yes, some of the VA is janky, and Tidus has three different looks, but it adds to the charm of it.

2. Pokemon Silver/Gold/Crystal/Soul Silver/Heart Gold - My favourite Pokemon iteration. The sheer scope of this game and the vast post-game makes it one of the best. I honestly don't think any of the Pokemon series has come close to the magic captured in these games. Also, I love having my Pokemon following the PC around.

3. Dark Souls - Despite playing Demon's first, I prefer the polish this game has. The connected open world is superior and makes it very satisfying when you find those all important shortcuts in the early game. The NPCs are one of the most interesting aspects (Praise the Sun) with the little backstories and lore they bring to the world.

4. Persona 4 - Goddamn, this game. Social links and a excellent RPG battle system both make this game fantastic. The balance between leveling your friendships and actual battling are wonderfully weighted meaning that doing one over another is not detrimental. The characters are fantastic and learning about them and being part of their struggles brings meaning to the combat abilities you gain; if you are a shit friend, they're not going to help you.

5. Final Fantasy XII - Quite an opposite to FFX in terms of battle speed. The highly customizable gambit system keeps the battles fast and allows for quick traversing in low level areas. Although some aspects of the story fall apart, I think it's a great RPG to play purely for the customisation, the hunts and the size of the world. And of course, if you can get your hands on the Zodiac Job System version, you're in for a treat.

6. Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door - That train level.

7. Chrono Trigger - Chrono Trigger is essential to anyone that considers themselves a lover of RPGs. It looks beautiful, the story is fantastic and the consequences of your actions as you jump through timelines is wonderful to watch unfold.

8. Final Fantasy IX - The best setting for a Final Fantasy. It's so vast and pretty and ahhh. The soundtrack is stellar too. Also, it probably features the most likeable cast of the series, with a good balance of quirky and serious characters and interesting backstories to listen to providing you watch the ATEs.

9. The Last Remnant - Newer Gen RPG. When I first played it I was completely overwhelmed by the battle system. The first mass battle that you are thrown in to utterly confused me, and led my to fumbling my way through the first few hours of the game. Then, I replayed it and it instantly became one of my favourites. The first time I met one if the uber-powerful enemies just hiding in a castle was exciting, and the squad building is good, allowing you to build teams exactly as you like. And of course, play the PC version!

10. The Witcher 2 - Goddamn, this game is beautiful, that alone should be enough for anyone to go explore this place. The combat did take a while to get used to, but with the crafted world and characters I was never too concerned that I sometimes fumbled my way through battles.

 

[Lancehead]

I finished my descriptions now, although I guess no one's going to read them, anyway, since there are no fancy headers floating above each pick.

Haha, I doubt that's how it works. People may not read because either they're not interested or not interested in reading long texts, not because there are no Fancy Headers.

 

[Goldmund]

Haha, I doubt that's how it works. People may not read because either they're not interested or not interested in reading long texts, not because there are no Fancy Headers.

It's kind of how I do it, unless I know the poster already and I'm interested in their opinion.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Demon's Souls (3 p) A game changer for me. I actually wasn't really expecting to like it, but was willing to give it a chance. I am a very glad that I did. Going through levels like 3-1, 4-2 and 5-2 (yes really!) for the first time were terrifying experiences that I will remember for a long time. The multiplayer components were really groundbreaking and ensure that this will always be remembered as a classic.

The rest of the games are listed in no particular order

Dark Souls (2 p) This game did a lot of things better than Demon's Souls, especially the bonfire/Estus Flasks mechanics, but a few too many lackluster boss battles and lack of dedicated servers for multiplayer keep it from reaching the same heights as its spiritual predecessor.

Final Fantasy IX (2 p) Wonderful world, charming characters, really fun chocobo mini-game. Unfortunately, the sluggish battles combined with random encounters may make it difficult to return to. Even so, I feel that this may quite possibly be the strongest game in the series if you manage to look past those issues.

Final Fantasy VII (2 p) I know that hating on this game has become the cool thing to do. But I don't care. This was the first RPG I played and is probably the game I have spent most time with. I found the story really fascinating and the multitude of secrets (Yuffie, Vincent, chocobos WEAPON battles etc.) kept me coming back.

Final Fantasy V (2 p) This is the only pre-Playstation Final Fantasy that I really enjoyed. The game is more challenging than many other in the series and the job system gave a lot of flexibility and variation to the combat.

Final Fantasy XII (2 p) I really liked what this game attempted with it seamless blend of battle and exploration. Random battles shall not be missed. I also really enjoyed the open ended structure of the game which allowed you to muck around in areas that were far outside of your level, where you really had no business being and to take out strong optional bosses with customized tactics. I really enjoyed the great dialogue and more mature approach to storytelling as well. The soundtrack is very underrated.

Valkyria Chronicles (2 p) A really fresh take on the tactical RPG sub-genre The battles were lots of fun, but unfortunately a bit too easy most of the time. I wish there were more battles like the clash against the giant tank in chapter 7.

Valkyrie Profile 2 (2 p) Tri-Ace hit it out of the park with this one. The crystal freezing added a lot to the 2d platforming parts, and I spent a lot of time trying to reach the most difficult treasure chests. And as anyone who played the game can attest to, the battle system is top notch, and the developers were not afraid to challenge the player. The game is held back by poorly edited cutscenes and the fact that you can screw yourself over for the post-game by releasing your einherjar too early.

Kingdom Hearts (2 p) This game was a really fun romp. The boss battles were fun and the rather large and open worlds encouraged exploring. It's a shame that the successors moved away from this. However, the game had some issues too, especially the gummi ship sections and slow start.

Tactics Ogre: Let us cling together (psp remake) (2 p) The game has an excellent story exploring some very dark themes, enhanced by the glorious translation in the PSP re-master. The improved balance and larger scale battles keeps it above Final Fanatsy Tactics in the gameplay department. Unfortunately, act 4 drags on a bit.

Honorable mentions (1 p each):

Nier The brilliant story and wonderful soundtrack were held back by the lackluster gameplay.

Odin Sphere The repeated boss fights and inflated length can make it an exhausting experience. Even so, the core gameplay is very fun and the interwoven storylines makes for an entertaining, if melodramatic, plot.

Final Fantasy X Yes, the story sometimes lacked subtlety and the voice acting was at times questionable. Even so, the story was entertaining and the move away from the series staple ATB battle system very welcome. The battles really shined when you were up against enemies far too strong and you were forced to plan several moves ahead.

Final Fantasy Tactics Fun battles and good story. Shame about the wacky (lack of) balance and risk of locking yourself into situations where it would be impossible to proceed.

Vagrant Story I had to think long to determine whether to include this game or not. As I find to be the case with all Matsuno games, there is a lot of bullshit to some specific gameplay elements. But again, as with all Matsuno games, the good stuff (in this case story, dialogue, music and battle system) is good enough to make you look past the bullshit and still be able to really enjoy yourself. I guess that is testament to how good the really good parts of his games are.

 

[Mattakuevan]

Here are my picks.

1. Final Fantasy 6 (3 Points) – I am likely not alone in considering this to be the greatest game of all time. I first played the game when I was 8 years old (1994) and it changed my idea of what a video game should and opened the door to RPGs. I play it every 1-2 years and it never stales. To me, this is RPG perfection.

2. Demon's Souls – I consider this to be the best game this gen, easily. Like FF6, it changed my idea about video games. Before DS released, I felt that gaming had begun to grow stale and that it may have passed me by. Demon's Souls revitalized my love for video games in general and allowed me to enjoy many games that follow on this list that I would have otherwise never played.

3. Chrono Trigger – For various reasons, I never played this game before the DS release a few years ago. Boy was that a mistake in hindsight. CT is one of the best games out there, it just does everything right.

4. Xenoblade - America fought hard to get this game, and boy was it worth it (even though I played the Euro release :x). The battle system was speedy and complex, the music was exhilarating and deep, the characters charming (Melia + RIKI) and the world was extraordinary. The story was a little derp, but everything else made up for it.

5. Final Fantasy 9 - This stands next to FF6 as the best Final Fantasy for many, and with good reason. I think the only JRPG that has a better fleshed out world is Xenoblade, and even then its only by a little bit. Sakaguchi crafted a beautiful game that, in spite of horribly slow battles, is a masterwork.

6. Dark Souls - While not quite as good as Demon's, Dark Souls is pretty much more of the same (which is great in this case). It was a little crappy near the end, but most of the game was just as well crafted as its predecessor.

7. Nier - While not a shining example of a "game", this is easily one of the best experiences I've encountered. Being a musician myself I found myself easily immersed in a world so held together by a wonderful score. The story and characters are pretty damn good too.

8. Witcher 2 - Having grown up in the 90s off of JRPGs, I pretty much ignored CRPGs or WRPGs. A friend of mine convinced me to play this and I'm so glad I did. The depth of character in both the story and setting are extremely high. Perhaps this will drop lower on the list as I play more WRPGs in the coming years, but I somehow doubt it. CDProject Red has my vote for all their future endeavors.

9. Final Fantasy 10 - The battle system is pretty top-notch for a turn-based RPG. Its quick and fun. The story was pretty good and with a few exceptions I fully enjoyed how the characters grew. Its one of the easiest Final Fantasies to just “get into” for a replay, which is important. Kinda easy, but still quite fun.

10. SMT: Nocturne - This would be higher up on the list, however I place a lot of importance in my desire to replay a game. I... will replay it someday, but beating this on Hard was an ordeal. This is easily the best SMT out there and the one I enjoyed the most from start to finish. Great music, great setting, great challenge.

Honorable Mentions:
11. Persona 4
12. Final Fantasy 12
13. Shadow Hearts
14. Valkyria Chronicles
15. Deus Ex HR

Now I'm gonna go back and read everyone elses

Edit: Wow, 4 of my top picks are from 2011. Man that was an amazing year.

 

[isual]

I've played a ton of PS2 RPGs, so my list comes from there. Other than the general popular ones, I'll name niche and really good rpgs.

1. Arc the lad: twilight of the spirits
2. Anything Shadow hearts
3. Anything Shin megami tensei (specifically nocturne, Digital devil, and persona 3 FES/4).
4. Anything Shining (tears, force, exa)
5. Rogue galaxy
6. Super robot wars
7. Monster Hunter
8. suikoden series
9. MS Saga (a true niche game with superb customization)
10. Anything Wild Arms
11. .hack series (original and GU)

 

[Kokonoe]

1. (3 Points) Phantasy Star Online Episode I & II
2. Pokemon Gold Version
3. Pokemon Red & Blue Versions
4. Final Fantasy VII
5. Final Fantasy XI
6. Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
7. Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Echoes of Time
8. Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga

For this thread, I'll pick Phantasy Star Online.

 

[Peter Bazooka]

Final Fantasy IV (3) - You never forget your first. When I first played FFIV it seemed like a never ending adventure with an infinite number of secrets. I adored the characters and was stunned by the twists it took. Over the years it's lost some luster from being re-released a million times and just getting older and realizing how silly a lot of the plot is. I still love the characters and still play it every once in a while out of nostalgia.

If I had a had kid who was interested in RPG's this is the game I'd use to introduce them to the genre.

Baldur's Gate II - The sheer amount of quality content packed into this game is staggering. Between the memorable characters, the epic story, and the amount of customization and replayibilty anyone who hasn't played BGII is doing themselves an incredible disservice.

Persona 4 Golden - Persona 4 has IMO the most likable cast of characters in any game to date. It took everything good about Persona 3 and just amped it up even more and then Golden came along and added things like the new improved shuffle time and being able to choose what skills your Personas inherit (For those not familiar this is a huge deal.) and just made a great game even better.

Final Fantasy Tactics - It's got a really interesting story, a fantastic lead in Ramza Beoulve, and a very fun battle system. That's not why it's here. No game is more fun to break than this. Having a Calculator who can wipe out the entire enemy side before the fourth fight? Go right ahead. Of Course you could just play normally and wait till you get TG Cid.

Demon's Souls - The first game I've ever imported. I was blown away by the art style and after watching some of the early importer streams I knew I had to play it. It was a difficult slog with bizarre systems that made no sense at the time (World tendency? What the heck?) and nasty surprises (Damn you Yurt!) but after sticking with it I was able to beat it and the feeling of accomplishment I got from that was greater than any game I've played this generation. Then Atlus announced a NA released and I couldn't wait to do it all again.

Dragon Quest VIII - The first game I played since FFIV that made me feel like I was going on an epic adventure. I enjoyed the whimsical fairy tale nature of the story and I really grew attached to the characters. The Monster Arena is some of the most fun I've ever had with side content in an RPG.

Fallout: New Vegas - Steam says I've put in over 200 hours on this game and I still feel like I haven't seen all it has to offer. I've played this game with three different characters and all three playthroughs felt unique and fresh. Great writing as well.

Suikoden II - The Suikoden series was at one point my favorite series in gaming and this is the game that solidifed that opinion. The translation leaves a lot to be desired though.

Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne - SatteliteOfLove's description was so spot on that there's not much more I can say. I do want to add that the setting is one of the coolest I've ever seen in a RPG.

Shining Force II - Great music, a diverse selection of characters, and an incredibly fun battle system. Would probably be my favorite Genesis game if Streets of Rage 2 didn't exist.

Honourable Mentions
1. Persona 3 Portable
2. Final Fantasy VI
3. Planescape: Torment
4. Fallout 2
5. Tales of Vesperia

Even though I don't have room for it left on either list I'd like to give a shout out to Infinite Space since IMO it's a hidden gem that more people need to play. Especially if you liked Suikoden.

 

[Deraldin]

It's funny to see so many one-sided divisions between complete JRPG lists and complete WRPG lists.

I'm not particularly interested in the lists that only show one or the other, but I'm always fascinated by those that include both types just to see what reasoning people use when trying to rank them against each other.

 

[kswiston]

It's funny to see so many one-sided divisions between complete JRPG lists and complete WRPG lists.

Some of that is just their gaming history. Look through the JRPG only lists and you will see some that are basically restricted to Nintendo systems, or to Sony systems. Even among the lists that include both JRPGs and WRPGs, you will find people with JRPGs from all generations, but only WRPGs from this generation. Or they will have WRPGs from all generations but no JRPGs more recent than the SNES/PS1. People can only list what they have played, and some of us drop in and out of genres. The rest is preference.

I'm not particularly interested in the lists that only show one or the other, but I'm always fascinated by those that include both types just to see what reasoning people use when trying to rank them against each other.

I like RPGs of all types for a variety of reasons. One of the reasons why I am against segregating JRPGs and WRPGs is that, other than art styles and a few other things reflecting regional tastes, I think there is as much variation within both groups as there is between them. Take Mass Effect, Might and Magic VI, Etrian Odyssey, and Final Fantasy X. I would argue that Mass Effect and FFX are more similar to each other than Mass Effect is to M&M6, or FFX is to Etrian Odyssey. Yes, WRPGs feature Western art and music while the JRPGs feature Eastern art and music (and sometimes that is enough for people to prefer one over the other). Yes, Western and Eastern RPGs tend to focus on different tropes and character archetypes. However, the actual gameplay in either group varies radically.

My personal list was a bit skewed because A) I really like tactical RPGs, and B) I haven't played/finished enough WRPGs. My computer has been garbage for most of my time as a gamer. Other than a couple brief periods around 1997-1998 and 2002-2003, I have only really had access to a gaming computer for the last 4 years. I also get sidetracked in older WRPGs a lot. They give you so much freedom that I typically end up doing a bunch of random side stuff before I lose interest, or I completely break the game. As such there are a bunch (like Morrowind and the Ultima games) that I have never finished. The newer WRPGs have been more plot driven than what came in the 90s/early 2000s, so I do tend to finish those games.

I finished my descriptions now, although I guess no one's going to read them, anyway, since there are no fancy headers floating above each pick.

I read every list unless it is just a bunch of game titles. Those I will go through when I am tallying everything. Not every list is going to be commented on individually, but I know a lot of people like reading them. The page view to post ratio in this thread is pretty high. Especially considering that A) it is not a thread about gaming news or sales, and B) the results aren't even posted yet. Your particular list caught my attention because you highlighted Secret of Mana. Secret of Mana was considered one of the big SNES RPGs at the time of its release, up there with the Final Fantasies and Chrono Trigger. However, for whatever reason, it seems to have not had the same legacy as those titles. Perhaps the brand was tainted with some of its later entries, and as a consequence gamers who originally missed out on it (growing up on the N64 or PS2 instead of the NES/SNES) don't bother to go back and try it out for themselves.

 

[wickedcapedkid]

1. Baldur's Gate 2

2. Fallout

3. Genso Suikoden

4. Lunar Eternal Blue (Sega CD)

5. Chrono Trigger

6. Dragon Quest IV

7. SaGa Frontier

8. Terranigma

9. Mother 3

10. Ultima Online (circa 1995)

Will edit in details later

 

[Durante]

I'm not particularly interested in the lists that only show one or the other, but I'm always fascinated by those that include both types just to see what reasoning people use when trying to rank them against each other.

Well, the good thing is that except for selecting one game to highlight and the distinction between honorable mentions and the "real" list there isn't a significant ordering in this process. I really wouldn't know where to start otherwise.

I had a thought that it could make sense to give people separate slots for JRPGs and WRPGs, but that would probably just cause 90% of the thread to degrade into bickering about which games belong into each category.

 

[Izick]

So I posted about this in the GoG thread but I'm about to play Planescape: Torment for the first time, tomorrow that is. Well, I've played it a little bit before but my old computer broke down and I never gave it a proper chance.

Anyway so I just bought it on sale at GoG. I decided to beat Assassin's Creed 3 (terrible, by the way) so I could give this my full attention, and I downloaded the mods in the mean time. Posted about it in the GoG thread:

--So you all think I should give Planescape the proper mods instead of just playing it vanilla? That's interesting. I honestly expected people suggest to play it vanilla (except for bug patches that is).

EDIT: Holy fuck these mods are amazing. I installed the Widescreen Mod, the Ghostdog UI mod, and the Ultimate Fixpack. I decided not to download the Tweak pack or Unfinished business stuff, as I thought it would change the original experience too much. Can't wait to start playing this tomorrow!--

So yeah, I'm really excited to finally give this a shot. Any last minute advice? I'm willing to hear/read all suggestions.

 

[kswiston]

I had a thought that it could make sense to give people separate slots for JRPGs and WRPGs, but that would probably just cause 90% of the thread to degrade into bickering about which games belong into each category.

It would also cause people who only play one or the other to either list games they sort of liked from the sub-genre they mostly skip over, or to not participate at all.

Also, there seems to be more homogeneity in the WRPG votes, where the large majority of recommendations are for Bethesda/Obsidian/Bioware games, Fallout 1+2, The Witcher 1+2,
Diablo 2, WoW, and Deus Ex. A few of those games do really well in the aggregate list, but the presence of WRPGs drops off quickly outside the Top 40-50. I am not sure having separate WRPG slots would solve the issue. I would imagine that the same games that are already represented would just get more votes.

I've played a ton of PS2 RPGs, so my list comes from there. Other than the general popular ones, I'll name niche and really good rpgs.

1. Arc the lad: twilight of the spirits
2. Anything Shadow hearts
3. Anything Shin megami tensei (specifically nocturne, Digital devil, and persona 3 FES/4).
4. Anything Shining (tears, force, exa)
5. Rogue galaxy
6. Super robot wars
7. Monster Hunter
8. suikoden series
9. MS Saga (a true niche game with superb customization)
10. Anything Wild Arms
11. .hack series (original and GU)

If you want me to use your recommendations for the final Aggregate lists, you will have to pick 10 individual titles. If people list an entire series in one slot, I will have to disqualify that vote. If they do that sort of thing for the majority of their list (as above), I will have to disqualify the entire post. Even if you don't care about participating in the aggregate list, I think that specific recommendations are more useful than listing out a bunch of series that add up to 30+ titles.


Thanks to the 154 people who have participated so far.

 

[Derrick01]

Well, the good thing is that except for selecting one game to highlight and the distinction between honorable mentions and the "real" list there isn't a significant ordering in this process. I really wouldn't know where to start otherwise.

I had a thought that it could make sense to give people separate slots for JRPGs and WRPGs, but that would probably just cause 90% of the thread to degrade into bickering about which games belong into each category.

I would be in support of 2 different lists because I do have 10 jrpgs to put on my list, but the problem is when I have to weigh them against the wrpgs I've played most aren't going to win out on an overall top 10 for me. As it is I only picked 5 because it's so hard to choose so I went with the easiest ones I could think of.

 

[kswiston]

I would be in support of 2 different lists because I do have 10 jrpgs to put on my list, but the problem is when I have to weigh them against the wrpgs I've played most aren't going to win out on an overall top 10 for me. As it is I only picked 5 because it's so hard to choose so I went with the easiest ones I could think of.

I like that people have to weigh them against each other. Ya, that will mean that some people skew one way or the other, but having enough participants will balance things out.

 

[zkylon]

Yeah I like mixed lists better. Picking 10 separate WRPGs and JRPGs would be too "easy", this requires actually sitting down and thinking what is that you hold more important in RPGs.

 

[Link1110]

Tengai Makyou: The Fourth Apocalypse - 3 points
Take all the craziness of Earthbound, add great anime graphics that still amaze today, throw in a great voice cast and set it in the late 1800s. Now you have one of the best games on the Saturn and PSP, and also one of my favorite RPGs ever. If you understand Japanese, GET THIS GAME!! I'm considering doing a GAF plays on this because it's so timely (it's about the apocalypse,) but we’ll see of I have enough free time to do that, and if I beat Soul Hackers soon enough.

Suikoden 2
Yeah, it costs $100 on EBay and doesn't exist in English in any form other than a buggy mess, but underneath that lies one of the best stories in RPG history. This is notable for having the single most epic battle in a video game, that really makes the villain feel like an intimidating force that you had to work to take down, and he's just an ordinary human rather than a god or something. If you're rich, just buy it. If you understand Japanese, but it for a reasonable price. The game was sent to die being released on the same day as the sequel to Final Fantasy 7 and the Dreamcast, but this one needs to be played.

Devil Survivor 2
I'm VERY cynical about the state of the video game industry today. I find games I can't wait to play to be rarer and rarer. I ignored this one for a long time until I was doing research for the GAF name that tune thread and found that the soundtrack to this game was done by Kenji Ito, at which point I bought it the same day. I'm glad I did. This is the kind of deep, epic and fun game that simply doesn't get made anymore. I played it through twice and only stopped to play Soul Hackers. Te game can be brutal at times, but this speaks to how good it is because I didn’t rage quit.

Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete
My personal favorite of the Game Arts games, but it's very close with Grandia 2. I love the lighthearted sense of adventure in this game. The best part, though has to be how character based the story gets in the second half. Rather than being about hunting down the bad guy, Eternal Blue does what Final Fantasy 6 did the year before and gives each character a time in the spotlight, and you really get involved in their pasts. Even one of the best characters from the first game comes back and has his character deepened by this story. 

Soul Hackers
Playing it currently, but I really like this one. Great atmospheric setting with a story which, while very 90s, is really interesting with ingesting characters with stories that are mature and well told. You really. Are for the Spookies going through this story. The 3ds version adds many user friendliness improvements that have been brought into the smt franchise since 1997.

Romancing SaGa 2
This series SERIOUSLY needs more love, and this one is probably the best of the lot. Basically, you play as hundreds of years worth of emperors and empresses as you expand the Avalon Empire and engage in a centuries long struggle with the seven heroes who have once saved the world but are now evil. Great exploration, a brilliant soundtrack and just fun gameplay make this a game worth playing.

Dragon Quest 5
I wanted a DQ game on here, but which one? 2 has childhood nostalgia (I even found an essay from the first day of fifth grade where I wrote about it,) but has aged abysmally. 3, 4, and 5 are the best ones and they all have some nostalgia to them as well. The one I received as a kid, the one I searched every Funcoland for for months, or the second game I ever imported? In the end, I went for 5, because I think it's the best out of all of them. It's got a great emotional plot, a fun if intimately pointless monster collecting mini game, and just sticks out as my favorite of the franchise.


Final Fantasy V
The 20th anniversary was last week, and here's what I posted on Facebook

The first game I ever imported, and as such the game that started a huge chain reaction that changed my life forever. If that game was localized, I wouldn't have ever learned Japanese, and never would've met anyone of the friends who came out of that. I would've never become an ESL teacher, and that game is where it all began.

I think this game was gonna make my top 10. It also has some of the best gameplay ever in any JRPG, despite this system being used and refined in the future, it was done best here, with every challenge in the game able to be overcome using strategy. Very few games require strategy like this, and when they do they stick out as a true gem.

Final Fantasy VI
Final Fantasy V had the best gameplay. Final Fantasy VI had the best everything else. An amazing story, one of the best soundtracks of all time, and some great graphics for its day make this one truly memorable.

Tales of Graces F
It was this or Abyss, and I just had more fun with this one. After using Wii owners as paid beta testers, Namco came put with one of the gems of the PS3 library. You really get into the characters in the intro, and what happens before the time skip hits you hard. This was attempted in Abyss, but the main character seemed to have just been innocent and betrayed, therefore holding no real fault in what he did. The characters here screwed up, and it's more their fault than Luke’s. the plot goes onto really feel like Final Fantasy IV

Spoiler

Go around defending crystals while your possessed best friend and his master do their best to stop you. You then go into space near the end.

Honorable Mentions
SaGa Frontier
A major underrated gem in the PS1’s RPG library. This game kept me occupied for 70 hours going through all of its quests. What keeps it as an honorable mention and not top 10 is that it's woefully incomplete. They didn't even try to hide the fact that tons of stuff was just left out of the final game, and this puts a damper on an otherwise amazing game.

Star Tropics
Ok, you guys made me want to put a WRPG on here, and this is the best one ever made IMO. It made me impress my 6th grade teacher by teaching me the meaning of the word cipher, and still stands as one of my favorite childhood games. Why they stopped at 2, I'll never know.

Tales of Destiny Remake
Another fun Entry in the Tales series. One of its better executed battle systems meets one of my favorite casts in a great remake. They could've done more with the Leon side, and there’s no grade shop, but other than that the game is really great and should have come here. There's a reason I always say that Tales post-2001 occupies Final Fantasy’s place in the gaming world before that, and this game shows why.

Wild Arms 3
Atmosphere, atmosphere, atmosphere! Whereas most games going for atmosphere like to create a dark, gritty world, this game makes you feel like a drifter in the old west, and it does so well. The cel shaded graphics still look beautiful a decade after the game’s release and the soundtrack is great.

Dark Cloud 2
An early game from the future creators of the Layton series, and theire style is all over it, From the graphics to the music that wouldn't be out of place a all in any Layton game to the tons of mini games. What this one does well that Layton doesn't have is a great action RPG. It's long, but never feels such because it's all broken up into short segments. This would make a perfect handheld game, and I hope they put it on one of the handhelds.

 

[Haxxor]

1. Planescape Torment - Put simply the world, setting, story, characters, everything but the combat makes this in my mind the best of the best. There is so much to this rpg, that I do not really know where to begin, but in my mind this is THE essential rpg that anyone should play and play it thoroughly. I'm not particularly fond of the combat, but in this game it is not that big part of the game (if you choose to not "fight").

2. Dark Souls (x360/pc) [3 points] - The absolute best combat of any rpg and even most action games, a world second to just Planescape, but more thanks to how it makes you feel deserted in a world of nightmares, full of despair and dangers around every corner. There is this tension throughout the game that I have yet to experience with any other game, and this is after more than 25 years of gaming.

3. Fallout 2 (PC) - Great setting, characters, sights and sounds and a fun combat system, also with great feel for how the player interacts with the world (choices that matter). Part 1 and the 3d "remakes" Fallouts are great (NW being the best), but part 2 was the best in the series for me.

4. DeusEX (the original PC) - Although the prequel is a better "game" for the new gamer, this one has a special place in my heart. The story was really cool (cyberpunk!), the perceived freedom to play the game you wanted was extraordinary and the gun play was quite good.

5. Morrowind (PC) - The world, there was nothing really like it and in many ways there is still nothing like it today. Sure, the earlier TES games had a bigger world, but they weren't as built up as this one. One of the games I've spent the most time playing and yet never finished, it was fun just getting lost in the world and just exploring.

6. KOTOR 2 - Sith Lords (Xbox/PC) - The best SW game ever, even better than the 2d platformers and Xwing/Tie Fighter! Why? The lightsabre button (it sounds stupid, but damn do i love spamming it while playing) and the interesting storyline with a lot of really cool characters. Oh and you have Jedi/Sith powers.

7. Baldur's Gate 2 + exp (PC) - One of the best rpg:s every and, part 1 was really good but this is better primarily because of Irenicus. I can't say for sure if its really good written or because the voice actor was awesome but there are few antagonist that are this awesome. Oh, and you have Minsc and Bo!

8. Zelda LTTP (SNES) - Best 2d Zelda ever, pixel perfection in every way, shape and form. There is not a single bad thing I can say about this game except for it being a zelda game, so no "huge" suppresses.

9. Dragon Age Origins (PC) - Really boring story, bland design when it comes to characters, items and the world, not all that many interesting side stories within the game and a very streamlined world (corridors everywhere!!!). Kinda like an uglier Mass Effect re-skinned to look like Balder's Gate, but with one awesome redeeming quality, the combat! Why there is no option to play coop in this game is well beyond me. But it's well worth playing for the combat alone as every encounter feels like it could be the end of you but not in a random way (as in you need to save spam), it added a bit of strategy as there was friendly fire so you can't just spam AOE on the rest of your team.

10. Mass effect (PC) - A one of i kind space opera, really felt movie like, but the combat was quite horrible (much better in the sequels) but the gfx were amazing, the music sublime and it felt very much like a modern action flick (or a star wars for the 21:st century), and the story somehow caught me of guard, liked the whole mystery aspect (the flashbacks) and the introduction of the "man" behind the scenes.

Honorable mentions:
1. System Shock 2 (PC)
2. Zelda OOT (N64)
3. Shadowrun (SNES)
4. Secret of Mana (SNES)
5. Quest For Glory: Shadows of Darkness

 

[Ridesh]

1. Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn (3 points)
2. Deus Ex
3. Planescape: Torment
4. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
5. Golden Sun
6. Diablo II
7. Mass Effect 2
8. The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings
9. Dark Souls
10. Dragon Age: Origins

Will edit with details later.