Chittagong
Gold Member
Any idea where would be a secure place to pick up a loose JP Mr Gimmick? Given the price there are many fakes going around. Thought I'd give myself a winter bonus 
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
NES/Famicom Appreciation Thread
- Thread starter Teknoman
- Start date
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Okay I've got a confession. I love the system, I love the games but I'm awful at NES games. I never knew what it was, I'm just bad at them. 16 bit, okay. But nes games I'm awful at. Whenever Nintendo gets their act together on NES Classic I really want to beat all of them without save states. Not that I use save states, but I haven't beaten all of the games on NES Classic. I went through SMB3 last year on my 3ds with no warping, no p-wings, no save states and I thought it was really, really hard. Sigh. Help.
RoryDropkick
Member
It's ok, you'll get the hang of it. Just keep practicing. I've lost my edge too.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
I dunno. It doesn't feel like I'm improving lol. Though I did best SMB3 without warping, it took me at least a week to do so for which should take maybe two hours. Ughhh.
RoryDropkick
Member
How are you playing it? Could be the setup too.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
On my old 3ds XL (hated the size) and New 3ds (non-XL). Like when I get a Classic I'm worried I won't be able to beat Ninja Gaiden or whatever.
I am good at stuff like the Mega Man's but I think those are among the easiest on the system.
StevieWhite
Member
You know, all the Battletoads talk got me playing Snake Rattle & Roll... and I think the folks at Rare just hated children. That game is very unforgiving. Half the powerups are hazzards in disguise. Beatable, but brutal.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
It's been a good nine months or so since I've been any serious time into Famicom/NES collecting, and I noticed that the AVS is on sale over at RetroUSB so I'll likely pick one up soon.
My 1989 NES controllers still function but after 25+ years of abuse the D-Pads are a bit spongy. Any recommendations for replacements?
My 1989 NES controllers still function but after 25+ years of abuse the D-Pads are a bit spongy. Any recommendations for replacements?
Battletoads stuff
Surf City Cover Game had fantastic music
The Battletoads Rap
AVGN episode Highlighting the problems of 2 players
James Rofle tries for 20 minutes to beat the Turbo Tunnels
James and Mike watch Bootsy beat Battletoads James is amazed by how crazy it gets.
How's progress going everyone?
Surf City Cover Game had fantastic music
The Battletoads Rap
AVGN episode Highlighting the problems of 2 players
James Rofle tries for 20 minutes to beat the Turbo Tunnels
James and Mike watch Bootsy beat Battletoads James is amazed by how crazy it gets.
How's progress going everyone?
That one may be equally as brutal in a lot of ways. Hard, hard game.
I'll be able to beat it within days from now.
D.Lo
Member
At least a normal person can get through 5-10 levels easily. It gets very hard but has a good curve.
Most people don't make it past level 3 in Battletoads.
Anyone who can't beat level 3 of Battletoads didn't even try. The whole thing is just alternating pressing up then down a lot and jump occasionally when you see a wall coming.
Even AVGN did that (posted above) in 20 minutes. And he's the type of gamer that can't get past the tutorial stage of Conker's Bad Fur Day.
Even AVGN did that (posted above) in 20 minutes. And he's the type of gamer that can't get past the tutorial stage of Conker's Bad Fur Day.
D.Lo
Member
That's very condescending. I saw dozens of people try and give up because it was too frustrating back in the day.
The point is they quit because the curve hits so hard so fast. It has a very uneven difficulty curve.
When I say try I don't mean attempting it once or twice. I mean putting some time into it. If you do that, I don't see why you'd find it impossible.
You couldn't put the stage any further back in the game because it really is by far the 3rd easiest stage of the 12 stages. If anything it's the first two stages being too easy that's the problem. Maybe they should have been changed or taken out because it is a big increase in difficulty from stage 2 to stage 3 but it's slight increases from then on.
Well I finally put it in, and I remembered: Oh god, I hate Battletoads so much.
Run 1: Warm up run. Took some really dumb deaths as I remembered how to play. I got to Surf City and forgot how to do it. Oops. Now I remember. Guess I'll continue from the start because this game isn't hard enough without limited continues.
Run 2: I got to the Elevator Shaft. And this level is where I believe the game shows its flaws off front and center, and oddly enough, the place I never really could get past as a kid.
As I've stated ad nauseam on the subject, it's not the Turbo Tunnel that people should get hung up on, though they do. I still maintain that it's a fun and thrilling level that's not really all that difficult. In fact, I beat it on my first try in both runs today. No, it's the game's awful platforming controls and finicky gimmicks they put them into.
The Elevator Shaft is the perfect example of where this game starts to mistreat the player. The springs? Simply awful hitboxes and are incredibly unforgiving, with horrible timing for the high jump that's easy to mess up. Putting a fan on the side that blows you? Oh, that's cool. Keep an eye out for that. But wait, let's make the very next instance of this you see (same color and all) appear on a really short platform, so when you see it you'll hold the direction toward it to not blow off, but instead SURPRISE it sucks you in and kills you! Bet you won't see that coming! Also, let's put annoying one hit kills everywhere with the gas clouds, just in case the player doesn't time his or her leaps perfectly, those will get 'em too. The platforming itself? Not challenging enough with all that other stuff, let's have the player jump around corners over death drops and give them moving holes to navigate through WITH one-hit kill electricity sometimes. And on top of ALL of that, let's put some enemies in the level that are just ever so slightly irritating to deal with on top of all that other stuff that require their own timing.
I am all for hard. I eat Ninja Gaiden for breakfast and practice runs of Castlevania. This game is sadism, and it starts at about this point. I'm definitely tempted to put in an infinite continue code via Game Genie and do it that way. I know I could brute force my way through every level if it didn't give you only so many tries, which is really the game's most major design flaw.
Run 1: Warm up run. Took some really dumb deaths as I remembered how to play. I got to Surf City and forgot how to do it. Oops. Now I remember. Guess I'll continue from the start because this game isn't hard enough without limited continues.
Run 2: I got to the Elevator Shaft. And this level is where I believe the game shows its flaws off front and center, and oddly enough, the place I never really could get past as a kid.
As I've stated ad nauseam on the subject, it's not the Turbo Tunnel that people should get hung up on, though they do. I still maintain that it's a fun and thrilling level that's not really all that difficult. In fact, I beat it on my first try in both runs today. No, it's the game's awful platforming controls and finicky gimmicks they put them into.
The Elevator Shaft is the perfect example of where this game starts to mistreat the player. The springs? Simply awful hitboxes and are incredibly unforgiving, with horrible timing for the high jump that's easy to mess up. Putting a fan on the side that blows you? Oh, that's cool. Keep an eye out for that. But wait, let's make the very next instance of this you see (same color and all) appear on a really short platform, so when you see it you'll hold the direction toward it to not blow off, but instead SURPRISE it sucks you in and kills you! Bet you won't see that coming! Also, let's put annoying one hit kills everywhere with the gas clouds, just in case the player doesn't time his or her leaps perfectly, those will get 'em too. The platforming itself? Not challenging enough with all that other stuff, let's have the player jump around corners over death drops and give them moving holes to navigate through WITH one-hit kill electricity sometimes. And on top of ALL of that, let's put some enemies in the level that are just ever so slightly irritating to deal with on top of all that other stuff that require their own timing.
I am all for hard. I eat Ninja Gaiden for breakfast and practice runs of Castlevania. This game is sadism, and it starts at about this point. I'm definitely tempted to put in an infinite continue code via Game Genie and do it that way. I know I could brute force my way through every level if it didn't give you only so many tries, which is really the game's most major design flaw.
Ha, please don't.
Especially because it's something you couldn't do as a kid. It'l be so much more satisfying this way. Keep it up. You're doing good. Although use warps. To get back to that level, you only need to beat two stages, Turbo Tunnels and Surf City. For the fan that blows you and then the next one that sucks you in, you can see before you jump up there which way their air is blowing. Take your time on that stage. There's no time limit.
For the springs, I don't believe you ever need the highest jump. As long as you press jump and hold it while the spring is going down, every jump should be fine. Just never press jump when the spring is going up. Maybe it'll help if I just said to hold the jump button.
For the electricity, I think you just need to relax more. They give you a second of warning before electricity comes out. Don't jump during that time. There's no rush. Even at the end when there's moving lightning platforms in a row, and they're moving quickly, take each one at a time. You can be on the platform underneath safely as long as you want.
Be sure to get the sticks on the wall on the right side of the stage. Get the two 1-ups. Even if you die getting them, they always reappear. Hold the jump button when jumping off the springs. Look at what's ahead before jumping to the next area. You can jump straight up and back down to advance the screen to see way above you. And smoke a bowl and relax before you play the stage.
StevieWhite
Member
I'd say from level 5 on, that curve is totally broken. The final sequence of the game (the final icy stairs in level 10 in into the final boss fight) are some of the most frustrating things I've ever experienced - the game's controls just fall apart during some of the trickier platforming sequences. Here's a video (not mine) the sequence in question. It's difficult even if you abuse save states.
https://youtu.be/pOkDaHnLrsA?t=4m43s
And then when you beat it, you have to take whatever lives you have left and fight the final boss in low gravity... it's savage. Definitely demoralizing.
D.Lo
Member
Oh it is hard as hell at the end. I have never beaten stage 10. Never tried with save states. But I think the curve is fine, it gets consistently harder as it goes along. I think normal players could get to stage 7-8 with a bit of practice. Pretty much anyone could get more than halfway though the game, unlike Battletoads.
I haven't beaten Battletoads either, but it gets very hard on Stage 3, but then I found 4-7 easier. Then level 8 hits a massive wall again and I have never beaten it.
Ha, please don't.
For the fan that blows you and then the next one that sucks you in, you can see before you jump up there which way their air is blowing. Take your time on that stage. There's no time limit.
For the springs, I don't believe you ever need the highest jump. As long as you press jump and hold it while the spring is going down, every jump should be fine. Just never press jump when the spring is going up. Maybe it'll help if I just said to hold the jump button.
For the electricity, I think you just need to relax more. They give you a second of warning before electricity comes out. Don't jump during that time. There's no rush. Even at the end when there's moving lightning platforms in a row, and they're moving quickly, take each one at a time. You can be on the platform underneath safely as long as you want.
Be sure to get the sticks on the wall on the right side of the stage. Get the two 1-ups. Even if you die getting them, they always reappear. Hold the jump button when jumping off the springs. Look at what's ahead before jumping to the next area. You can jump straight up and back down to advance the screen to see way above you. And smoke a bowl and relax before you play the stage.
I am aware of HOW to beat all these things. It doesn't excuse the game's mixture of ever-so-delicately-sloppy controls mixed with the haphazard design and seeming hatred for the player. It's just a really poorly put together level, even if it's doable with enough practice.
That's my point. The level doesn't have hatred for the player. You said you were surprised that the fans sucked you in. But you can see which way the air is blowing if you just look up. You just have to take your time. All of the electricity parts give you a long warning when electricity is about to start, and as much time as you need to prepare to jump through those holes. The springs don't have bad timing. You just need to hold jump at any point when the spring is going down and you can make any jump. You don't need perfect or even good timing. You just need to hold the button down when you're landing.
The level couldn't be more generous while still maintaining difficulty. It doesn't have to give you two always reappearing 1-ups. It doesn't have to give you a pipe to hit things with. It doesn't have to give you a big warning for electricity. It could have just made the players figure out the timing for when the electricity comes out themselves. The enemies didn't have to go down with one punch. If it was any easier, it wouldn't be any fun.
The part in Castlevania with the axe knights and medusa hates hates the player much more than this level. I don't know how many hundreds of times I've tried to beat Castlevania. I've never been able to do it.
I just can't disagree more. That part in Castlevania gives you the tools you need to defeat it. Plus it controls like a dream.
That said, I beat the Elevator Shaft. Terra Tubes is worse. What a shit level. Now not only do I have to deal with awful on foot controls, but awful swimming controls and enemies that kill you in one hit and have crazy RNG where sometimes they just want you dead, in pools filled with one hit spikes, which I sometimes have to jump over coming out of the water with finicky transitional jumping. Fuck, this game handles like dog shit.
Huggers
Member
Agreed. The lead up to Death in CV is pitch perfect action platformer design.
StevieWhite
Member
If Castlevania hates the player, I'd hate to think about what Ninja Gaiden is doing to us.
6-2 is truly a level that "hates" the player.
6-2 is truly a level that "hates" the player.
You see, I wish to god in Castlevania I could headbutt those axe knights knocking them down, go up and down to avoid the medusa heads, be able to sprint, and have the freedom of movement in jumping. By that last one I mean if you jump to the right in Castlevania and a enemy appears there, you're screwed. In battletoads, you could move back left in mid-air. I wish as well that Castlevania would as forgiving for the boss fights. If I die at a boss, put me back at that boss. It always felt really cruel that that I'm almost dead whenever I make it to the Grim Reaper fight.
I can't defend Terra Tubes as much. That is brutal. I just see that about the same as I see Dark Souls or Castlevania in that you absolutely won't get through on your first time. I'm okay with it though because I find it fun and rewarding to keep trying to get a little further.
Double Dragon is next month. The last time I tried to beat Double Dragon, I made it to stage 4 in one life, then proceeded to use all my 3 of my lives on the blocks coming out of the wall.
Speaking about MAGfest and Battletoads, were you at the David Wise Q&A? Someone brought up the infamous Pause Theme and he said the programmer was actually the one that came up with it, not him!
Nah I wasn't there, but that's crazy!
sixteen-bit
Member
one for the mindblowing facts thread
Meh, I got through that section easily now.
Ninja Gaiden 3 however hates the player in the last stage with the strictest time limit ever in a game, so strict that most people rather just die to earn more time.
Such a cool fact!
Anyways, I played Battletoads tonight, for the first time ever. Well, I have played the Snes-game a few times, but this was the first time i played the original. Anyways, i feel there is a lot of hidden depth here i dont quite get? Got to the continue screen on the second level already, and while there was no single enemy that was impossibly hard or anything, it still felt very clunky to play - and the way enemies gang up on you fucking sucks. Going to play more tomorrow!
Headbutt everything or hit them with the sticks. If you don't punch them, they shouldn't be be able to gang up on you. Because the headbutt will either kill enemies or knock them to the ground.
You can juggle the dead birds for extra lives in level 2 if you keep hitting them with the bird's beak that you get.
Videotape yourself for when you're playing Level 3 for the first time.
Thanks, will try this tomorrow. The extra lives thing should be great. Is five lives max btw?
Edit: Dont really have a good way of videotaping, but might use the phone maybe? Will try to fix something at least.
No. Despite the counter only going up to 5, the lives stack to as many as you can grab.
I believe there's no limit to the lives. You can definitely get more than 5.
Other things:
- You get extra lives from every 100,000 points. (A typical run through the game without using a continue should give you 999,999 points)
- Hold the jump button while jumping for each jump. You stay in the air longer and come down slower. I just put the game on to test the controls and I realized that may not come natural. You don't do that for Mario, Mega Man, Castlevania, But try it, hold jump for every jump. It's very helpful to get the 1-up in the 1st stage. If you do get stuck in between two enemies, you can jump out of there way higher than they can reach.
- You can ride the dragon in the beginning and shoot fireballs and fly with it. It's not necessary but just kind of a neat thing.
- You can hit enemies that are knocked on the ground by running at them and attacking. Your foot will turn into a big boot and one hit kill them. Even if they get up, it's still a 1 hit kill.
- In stage 2, push toward the edges of the screen to turn yourself into a wrecking ball. That one hit kills every enemy. Unless it's an easy bird, you're going to want to do that for every enemy. Do it for the birds with the big beak too. They can cut your line. No point in getting close.
- There's a code to start with 2 more lives. Hold down + B + A + Start at the title screen. So you start off with 6 rather than 4.
- And there's 0% chance you will beat the game the next time you try it, or the next several times. So just don't have that expectation. See how far you can get. Think of it like you would Dark Souls or Super Hexagon. You just simply have to die a lot to get better. But it's really satisfying in my opinion when you do master it and you're beating the stages with ease that gave you trouble.
I feel obligated to try to get people to enjoy it since I picked it.
Doing this in the continue screen does the same thing. ALWAYS do this when starting over.
sixteen-bit
Member
I wonder if the NES Classic Edition controllers are 1:1 replacements. I've seen conflicting information on this.
StAidan
Member
I'd like to know if there's an easy way to use them in original NES controller ports, too. I've got a couple NES Classic ones, and they feel so true to the originals that I'd love to use them on my NES or AVS.
Why not BLW?
Just a personal preference. I want my NES to feel like an NES when I insert/remove the carts. The nostalgia matters.
#1 Battletoads protip is to get good at farming lives by bouncing ravens in the Wookie Hole. You can definitely have more than 5 because you can get dozens in that stage. I have to relearn Volkmire's Inferno like every time I play and it would be impossible for me without those lives.
Funny thing is that the Genesis version pauses the descent at every raven, making it super easy to do. I should detail out the differences in the games someday and try the GB port.
A lot of the fans in the Elevator Shaft turn on and off, you're not supposed to get past them when they're on. Battletoads asks a lot of you but it gives you the controls you need to succeed. There are certainly parts that can feel unfair, such as the fish enemies underwater. Despite that I've always loved Battletoads, but I agree that the skill barrier for entry is higher than most games. I had already put in the work sucking bad at earlier games like SMB and Mega Man so I wasn't struggling nearly as much by the time it released.
Funny thing is that the Genesis version pauses the descent at every raven, making it super easy to do. I should detail out the differences in the games someday and try the GB port.
A lot of the fans in the Elevator Shaft turn on and off, you're not supposed to get past them when they're on. Battletoads asks a lot of you but it gives you the controls you need to succeed. There are certainly parts that can feel unfair, such as the fish enemies underwater. Despite that I've always loved Battletoads, but I agree that the skill barrier for entry is higher than most games. I had already put in the work sucking bad at earlier games like SMB and Mega Man so I wasn't struggling nearly as much by the time it released.
If you're not good at bouncing ravens, you can also max out your lives on Surf City (level 5). There a 1-up near the end. Get the 1-up, collect points which give you more lives, die on purpose, get the 1-up again, collect points, due on purpose, repeat until you get 10 lives.
You can do the same thing in the Terra Tubes. (Level 9)
I kind of felt the same way, then I installed the BLW and now there's no way I'm going back. The fact every cart works right away without issue more than covers the nostalgia of pushing the cart down (for me).
As for the original question, sorry I can't be too much help. I bought one off ebay a couple years ago, it started having issues within a couple months so I went the BLW path.