lightskintwin
Banned
LOL @ "No asian lead" clause.
I think it's more that they already had an idea of who they wanted to cast in the role of Light.
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Netflix Death Note Trailer. Release August 25th.
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LOL @ "No asian lead" clause.
I think it's more that they already had an idea of who they wanted to cast in the role of Light.
Discotheque
Banned
NOBODY has Nat Wolff in mind when they want to cast somebody. I imagine they had a personality and a look to the character in mind, but they could have held open auditions for that.
Like if they had a specific actor in mind this would be a bit more easy to digest, but this guy? lol hell no.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
That would make sense then.
lightskintwin
Banned
No, I meant they had an idea that they wanted a White guy for the lead of Light. LOL
Discotheque
Banned
oh my bad lol. that makes more sense. but still nothing about this part is racebound. ideally they should have allowed anybody to audition for it.
this type of thinking is why minorities are rarely in shit. and when they are in a movie its more often than not tied to their race or culture rather than you know...just being some dude.
that's why I think that John Cho movie is a big deal. the type of movie and role you always see offered to tons of white actors. oh and it was cool in Edge of Seventeen too seeing something like this.
this type of thinking is why minorities are rarely in shit. and when they are in a movie its more often than not tied to their race or culture rather than you know...just being some dude.
that's why I think that John Cho movie is a big deal. the type of movie and role you always see offered to tons of white actors. oh and it was cool in Edge of Seventeen too seeing something like this.
lightskintwin
Banned
Despite it being reviewed really well, it's interesting it didn't create any buzz here in the industry, and I don't think any distributor has gotten the North American rights to it. The only thing I can see is that a distributor bought the Chinese rights and another distributor bought the Middle East rights. That's kinda crazy.
Although I think it leads credence to the belief that Hollywood doesn't see a market for Asian lead films, particularity smaller independent ones that are romantic comedies.
Regardless I hope someone picks it up so I can watch it.
Asians are part of the audience though.
The impression I'm getting from some posters in here is "Yes, it's a bad thing minorities get type cast into stereotypical roles and the industry is dominated by whites, hence no minority stars for starring roles, but that's the way the industry works, and this isn't the film to push for change ¯_(ツ
_/¯ "No suggestion when it'd actually be appropriate for minorities to speak up and try actually instigate that change instead of leaving the cycle repeat, just fervent defence of the status quo regardless. I don't get it.
lightskintwin
Banned
Loved "Edge of Seventeen", but that Asian guy was indeed stereotyped in that film. LOL It reminded me of the Black guy that played Earl in "Me and Earl and The Dying Girl". Another film that I enjoyed but the stereotype stood out again due to it being in the backdrop of a predominately White cast.
Or unless whoever owns the rights specifically asked no Asian leads because it could clash with their options in Japan where they are still working on Death Note movies. But on the other hand, if that was the case, they could have easily stated it.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Honestly, Pattinson could still pull it off.
Besides the word of a salty Youtuber. I mean there really needs to be more than one source for this kind of stuff if we are going to call it out. You'd think that there would be a lot more Asian-American actors complaining about this since it should be a role that a lot of them applied for.
lightskintwin
Banned
Dude is working in the industry so I highly doubt he would make that up and potentially sabotage his career.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4066675/
Actors make shit up all the time especially when it comes to trying to get roles. Also saying what he is saying is already a set up to sabotage his own career. Also these things generally have a casting call/"ad" that they would have received describing what they are looking for in people they want in the role. Yet that hasnt been seen anywhere.
If they actually use a white privilege angle for Light it would mean this is one case where them specifying they wanted a white lead makes sense.
Making it racially charged really is the best case scenario for this adaptation, with a white Light and a Black L. I have faith in Wingard and I can believe this kind of thing crossed his mind, but I'm still wary of the rewrites this script went through.
Making it racially charged really is the best case scenario for this adaptation, with a white Light and a Black L. I have faith in Wingard and I can believe this kind of thing crossed his mind, but I'm still wary of the rewrites this script went through.
lightskintwin
Banned
LOL So him lying and going through the effort to make the lie public by creating a video where he's putting himself in a position to be proven wrong sounds more logical to you than him telling the truth and being frustrated working in the industry and making a video to vent?
My Occam's Razor says otherwise.
He's a Youtuber and the current popular thing in movies is about Asian-American roles. Its not at all illogical that he could be just trying to fuel that.
lightskintwin
Banned
He's also an actor that's currently working in Hollywood. It's weird how you're reducing him to only a Youtuber in order to make your narrative sound more plausible and not acknowledging the other part which would deter him from making a false video filled with lies and a click bait title.
UnemployedVillain
Member
What America are you living in? If anything an Asian would be seem as less suspicious because there's the stereotype that Asian men are weak and docile. For the reasons you listed to justify a white character and Asian would make WAY more sense.
Hell, watch "Better Luck Tomorrow" by Justin Lin. It's basically about privileged Asian teens and.this very subject, and a great movie.
No, we should trust the random GAF poster with no ties to the industry, anonymity, and a blatant desire to deny reality over the Asian actor with firsthand experience who's attaching his name to his claim and possibly risking his career.
He is not supposed to be weak and docile though. He is supposed to look like the perfect boyfriend, be incredible at sports, absolutely smart, ... Every woman falls for him immediately. He is basically Edward Cullen which explains why I was thinking of Pattinson earlier.
Killer Queen
Banned
Asians are part of the audience though.
The impression I'm getting from some posters in here is "Yes, it's a bad thing minorities get type cast into stereotypical roles and the industry is dominated by whites, hence no minority stars for starring roles, but that's the way the industry works, and this isn't the film to push for change ¯_(ツ
No suggestion when it'd actually be appropriate for minorities to speak up and try actually instigate that change instead of leaving the cycle repeat, just fervent defence of the status quo regardless. I don't get it.
That's great, no one said they weren't. But so are other races, what's your point?
And someone answer me this:
Why is it okay for Edge of Tomorrow to be adapted with leads of a different race for a different audience, despite both being based off of Japanese material.
Why is it okay for L to be of a different race but not Light since people on GAF seem to be ignoring that.
And I'm not trying to be disingenuous, I'm legitimately curious as to why neither of these seem to be an issue
If they follow Light's escalation of his "justice" from the source material, a privileged white kid living in Seattle mass killing the USA's prison population which is disproportionally black, and a black super-detective taking him down has to be intentional.
So it makes sense why they wouldn't want the protagonist/antagonist to be Asian in this instance, it doesn't really serve the social commentary. I would also assume they wouldn't want someone black or middle eastern.
Well, that was Yagami Light. This is Light Turner, who is a different character in a different story. You do recognize that it's impossible to accurately convey the source material's story in even a trilogy of movies - and this is only one film. The anime was over 12 hours of content and even that was pared down from the manga.
The film needs Light to be more impulsive to get the plot moving, you aren't going to get 30 minutes of him winning Naomi's trust before the soul-crushing "I am Kira" scene, there simply isn't time for it. Even the Japanese live action films changed Light's look and personality.
So it makes sense why they wouldn't want the protagonist/antagonist to be Asian in this instance, it doesn't really serve the social commentary. I would also assume they wouldn't want someone black or middle eastern.
Well, that was Yagami Light. This is Light Turner, who is a different character in a different story. You do recognize that it's impossible to accurately convey the source material's story in even a trilogy of movies - and this is only one film. The anime was over 12 hours of content and even that was pared down from the manga.
The film needs Light to be more impulsive to get the plot moving, you aren't going to get 30 minutes of him winning Naomi's trust before the soul-crushing "I am Kira" scene, there simply isn't time for it. Even the Japanese live action films changed Light's look and personality.
UnemployedVillain
Member
The point is, a preppy Asian kid is more unassuming than a preppy white kid
jack_package_200
Banned
Killer Queen
Banned
We've been discussing that for a while, I said something similar on the last page and it got ignored.
The Japanese movie is basically just him outsmarting Naomi while hitting quite similar beats. They drastically changed the ending, but it still felt true to the manga and the show. That Light has the potential to achieve everything and then throws it all away with the Death Note, is important. He has to feel worthy of being a god and that only works if he can actually be 'perfect.' Tatsuya Fujiwara is still a looker.
Yes. But I don't think the point from Death Note was that he was unassuming.
UnemployedVillain
Member
But that was the exact point. Being popular doesn't preclude someone from being unassuming. You guys are forgetting there's another incredibly popular series that uses the same idea. BATMAN.
Bruce Wayne is unassuming because he's this billionaire playboy who seemingly wouldn't care about fixing Gotham's crime issues, let alone doing it himself as Batman.
Light is the same. A popular student, top of his class student, with good prospects for his future, who would never be imagined doing something as horrific as killing people he deems criminals as the serial killer Kira. Light is definitely suppose to be unassuming
I'm down with that but don't have faith that's what they're going for.
This would be an incredibly smart adaptation of the original story. I hope it ends up that way but I think they still dropped the ball with his casting. The current actor looks completely miscast, but that is still up in the air due just being a trailer.
Zoe
Member
Because there's explicit evidence that Asian Americans were blocked from auditioning for the role. That's not the case with your other examples.
Have you ever heard of Alex Jones? He makes a living doing what you describe as illogical.
Killer Queen
Banned
How do you know? Just because someone didn't say anything about it doesn't mean it wasn't the case. You still only have one person relaying that information, that's not to say he's lying, but rather that had he not spoke up, no one wouldve ever known and I doubt he was the only Asian American to audition for the role.
How do you know that they weren't specifically looking for a Black L and in the case of Edge of Tomorrow why doesn't it matter that an adaptation of Japanese material doesnt have any Japanese or even Asian Americans in leading roles, but instead are all white American movie stars like Tom Cruise and Emily Blunt and with a casting like Tom Cruise, it's pretty likely that he or others like him were in mind when creating the film, so why are none of these issues that people are bringing up in relation to the adaptation of Japanese fiction for American audiences. It's really only one step removed from the Ghost in the Shell situation.
And that's before even getting into the potential racial dynamic of Death Note that would require race casting.
And this was an issue before it was known that an Asian was blocked from the role, so that's a weak defense.
Edit: I missed the word "explicit" but even then, it doesn't change anything.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Anyone find it funny that the potential racial drama/dynamic that this movie potentially has is 100% speculation? The director hasn't even hinted at such a thing being the case, and you guys are putting a LOT of undeserved faith in a director whose only comments on the movie have been...well let's just say, they've shown a complete lack of understand of what made the series popular in the first place.
Killer Queen
Banned
We have one short trailer for a film that's a loose adaptation of something else. What do you expect other than speculation? Arguably anything that doesn't revolve around that trailer is speculation. What we do know is that the director is going for something different, maybe the casting reflects said choices. There's nothing wrong with speculating on the reason behind said choices and if you're going to shoot for one side, people are allowed to discuss a potential alternative. You know as much as anyone else does.
Yep, and it's a natural consequence of the discussion regarding asian representation.
You can't have the nuance of privileged white kid with an asian actor. If that's what the movie is going for it will be justified that they turned down asian actors for the role.
Zoe
Member
Except that's what makes this one an issue. If we knew Asian Americans were excluded from those other roles, people would have protested them as well.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Killer Queen
Banned
I can guarantee you that this is an issue to some people outside of that. So it's kind of a moot point. It might've made a difference to some people, but others are upset with the exclusion of Japanese or Asian Americans in a leading role in a film based on Japanese material. So if that's the case then either:
The fact that the film is based on Japanese material should be irrelevant and the races of the characters being cast should also be irrelevant
Or
There's a possibility that the race of the characters in the film is important to the story or the characters identity which is why said Asian actor was being excluded.
Not every case automatically equals racism. So instead of going down that road let's wait and see. Because again, at this moment, there are many other instances that are more likely to be racist exclusivity than this one.
Marvel in particular seems to have an issue with it, if we look at Iron Fist, Doctor Strange, even the Mandarin. That's not to say that people haven't taken issue with that too, but I find it interesting that many Asian characters are constantly given away to white actors and the only time it becomes a major issue for the adapted material is when it's based in popular anime.
What exactly is stopping him from being both? Light is a serial killer in all his iterations. Just because he's privileged doesn't mean he can't be a psycopath, which
A: He obviously is
B: there are examples of in real life. See: Rapist that got 3 months because being in jail might negatively impact his life.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Because it always follows the exact same cycle of poor excuses:
1. A white actor is cast for a role that could have easily gone to an Asian (or other minority)
2. Bullshit reason is given and they're told to either produce things themselves and cast Asian, or try for roles where the role is explicitly Asian.
3. Asian directors are routinely excluded and projects are somehow deemed "too risky" with Asian leads (yet unknown white guys are somehow totally fine).
4. Asian property is adapted so Asians think "Well, they have to cast one of us now", and then under the excuse of American adaptation the lead character's race is changed from Asian to white. And thus we go back to 1
No one was even saying that...a key aspect of his character is that he's a privileged psychopath, but my point is that this Light doesn't strike me as a privileged kid. He looks like a weird loner. Obviously, I can't say this for sure and I'm going to watch the movie to find out, but from the trailer that's the impression I got.
Killer Queen
Banned
So instead of cherry picking what I said, respond to all of the points I made.
If that's how you feel then fine, but at least be consistent in your outrage.
If you're upset about Death Note then I hope you're just as upset about Edge of Tomorrow and the listed Marvel properties and really any other film with poor Asian representation. Because it comes off as insincere and more caring about the faithfulness of the property rather than actual representation.
In no way does an adaptation need to be 100% faithful to its original material. That's why its called an adaptation, not a recreation, and I stand firmly by the belief that just because it's an adaptation of Japanese material, that doesn't mean it needs to feature Asian Americans in leading roles unless it's an important distinction within the adaptation. It's not in Death Note, so whether or not the leads are Japanese or even Asian should be wholely irrelevant.
I'll give it to you for Ghost in the Shell, and I've already said that I'd prefer a Japanese actress. But at the end of the day attractive white people in leading roles sell more than minorities, though black people are starting to make their way there too.
Am I saying that we shouldn't discuss it as a whole or that Asian representation doesn't matter? No but not every case is as cut and dry as you're trying to make it out to be.
So what's the solution? You guys are right that Asians shouldn't only get cast when they need a martial arts master or an ancient figure of lost Asian knowledge or any other stereotype. But being consistent with complaints and outrage along with taking back those roles from white people would be a start, in addition to asking for more asian representation in all media, TV shows, movies, whatever. Don't just do it in some instances and ignore it in others. If you want to make a difference then keep making your voice heard everywhere there's an issue.
Privilege and popularity don't need to go hand in hand, which comes back to the "white privilege" angle we've been discussing. And come on, the trailer is 55 seconds long. It's not like Light really had all that many friends in the anime either.
I liked how Shonda does it, simply not caring which race she casted.
Bruce Wayne and Light are at the same timing hiding in plain view. I wouldn't call that unassuming. I always imagine unassuming s low key. That isn't Bruce Wayne who makes a spectacle of himself to hide. Light isn't unassuming either. He is a spectacle enough to easily get a date for each day of the week and he rushed into the investigation because he wants to be noticed. If they go for an outcast or someone that is more laid back, the wrestling himself into the investigation doesn't make sense. Someone like that is probably more suited to be Kira as Light messed up because he wanted the attention.
Bruce Wayne and Light are at the same timing hiding in plain view. I wouldn't call that unassuming. I always imagine unassuming s low key. That isn't Bruce Wayne who makes a spectacle of himself to hide. Light isn't unassuming either. He is a spectacle enough to easily get a date for each day of the week and he rushed into the investigation because he wants to be noticed. If they go for an outcast or someone that is more laid back, the wrestling himself into the investigation doesn't make sense. Someone like that is probably more suited to be Kira as Light messed up because he wanted the attention.
WrenchNinja
Member
He is being consistent. Youre the one going whatabout whatabout whatabout
UnemployedVillain
Member
I am. So where am I being inconsistent? The only difference is that those have already been released and are years old so there's no use in bringing them up again. If it weren't for other people bringing up GITS in this thread, I wouldn't even be bringing that up again.
You're mistaking my focus on Death Note, in a a Death Note thread, for me only caring about this issue with relation to Death Note, which is far from the truth. However, I can acknowledge adaptations that turn our just as good, if not better, than the originals despite whitewashing, such as The Departed and Edge of Tomorrow. But I'm trying to separate the quality of the movies from the issue at hand.
It can mean low key, but it can also mean someone who you wouldn't assume to do/be capable of something, depending on the context it's used. Both Bruce Wayne and Light fit that in relation to their alternate personas. Narcissistic, selfish billionaire playboy vs Selfless, vigilante crime fighter. Popular, sociable son of the police chief vs Mysterious, arrogant mass murdering egotist. That they're diametric opposites is part of the drama when they have to interact with people and put on a straight face that we, as viewers/readers, know is just a well crafted facade.
Killer Queen
Banned
Then you don't understand the context of which I'm speaking of consistency, nor is he the only person i mean.
Theres also nothing wrong with drawing comparisons to similar situations. But if that's all you've gained from what I've had to say then why bother engaging me at all?
That's a fair criticism, though I don't mean for this to come off as an attack on you in particular, but rather the outrage that these films garner in general, which is why I'm bringing up other material. Because from what I've seen, these are the only two that have gotten any kind of major backlash despite them all being similar situations. Which is why I find it silly to complain about one or two, but not all the others, because it's not an issue that started with these two films.
As for whitewashing, in the case if Edge of Tomorrow and Ghost in the Shell, yes that's white washing. In the case of Death Note, I wouldn't personally agree. Because they could have just as easily made L white, but they didn't which is why I and others believe that there's more to this case in particular. Because at the very least it creates a different undertone than the original, which makes sense due to it now taking place in the United States and the current climate with racism and particularly black and white. That dynamic doesn't work with an Asian Light. You specify that Light in the film reminds you of Dylan Roof, but maybe that's the point, and you're right to say obviously this is all speculation, but I think there's enough there to make an interesting case for the potential direction of the film.
Obviously we won't know until it comes out but i think it's just as much an avenue worth exploring rather than just jumping to "Well it's because they're racist". Could that be the case? Of course and I'm not denying or excluding that possibility but it's also not the be all end all.
l o l
Light is the worst thing about that show and his performance was pretty universally panned. The show is ok, but don't watch it for Light.
More acting doesn't mean better acting.
Sorry! Loved his performance. And to say he's the worst thing about that show with the whole Near and Melo thing they did? Uh
Quoting you because you brought it up first.
The movie being a social documentary would be the greatest thing
Killer Queen
Banned
I don't deserve the credit, Im pretty sure a couple other people in here brought it up before I did, which is where I got it from. But should that be the case I think that would be a really interesting direction for the film.
It would be a great direction!
But the worst thing would be how most discussions about the movie would then end up being political discussions (and we know how well they go on the Internet!), and i honestly don't have the nerve for that.
I gladly pay that price though, if it's well executed
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