VN1X
Banned
Yeah this was weak as hell I thought.
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New Louis CK Comedy Special "Sorry"
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
I don't think the issue was that they "changed their mind" about it later as much as that they thought he was joking when he asked, and felt totally blindsided by it, and they were essentially coworkers of his, doing gigs together. And then when the story started getting around his agent worked to sabotage their career opportunities to discourage them from going public (the last part honestly being the worst in my opinion)
With all that said, you know, this stuff happened almost 20 years ago, and while I think it merited an apology and I'm glad he left the behavior behind a long time ago, the amount of time that has passed since he stopped doing it is an important part of the story that seems to get lost a lot.
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LegendOfKage
Member
When making judgements about people based on knowing very little about them, this concept would be good to remember. If it's true for most people that you know well, it's probably also true for a lot of people that you don't really know.
Louie CK is smart enough not to defend himself, which would only give people more reason to talk about everything again, but I started to think differently about the whole controversy after researching it. The main thing is, when the news broke and he admitted his actions, he hadn't made that sort of "request" in about 10 years. The last time was shortly before getting his first hour long comedy special. He clearly realized that what he was doing was wrong, dangerous to his career, or both.
His recent appearance on Joe Rogan was really good too. I'm glad he found a way to remain an artist on his own terms, and in doing so he has been able to help others succeed as well.
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GeekyDad
Member
First, I disagree with the interviewer's interpretation of "Sorry," in that I think CK gave quite the fuck, and, in an ingenious way, responded in that set -- right off the bat -- to the issue. Talk about smoothing things over. It's amazing how honesty and good, thoughtful and precise writing can negotiate a career disaster.
Enjoyable interview.
Enjoyable interview.
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SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
I'm not in a spot where I can listen to the interview right now, but I will say, for as much as Louie is persona non grata at the networks, and the press will not report on him without the word "Disgraced comedian" in front of his name, Louie's career is fully back.
The man is playing Madison Square Garden in the round next month, the full stadium up to the nosebleeds, and it's nearly sold out. There are very few comedians who can do that. He is objectively still one of the biggest comedians working today in terms of draw.
His specials are reportedly selling more than ever too. He self distributed a movie that played to sold out crowds at a limited number of screenings. He is doing just fine, but no one wants to talk about it.
I have always liked Louie and I thought he earned a little more deference on his scandal by virtue of the fact that he was one of the few that seems to have genuinely recognized and corrected his behavior years before that scandal was made public. I think a lot of the details of what he was accused with got lost in the grabby headlines too. I saw one of his live shows recently with my wife and he is as funny as ever, and his audience is very much still there.
The man is playing Madison Square Garden in the round next month, the full stadium up to the nosebleeds, and it's nearly sold out. There are very few comedians who can do that. He is objectively still one of the biggest comedians working today in terms of draw.
His specials are reportedly selling more than ever too. He self distributed a movie that played to sold out crowds at a limited number of screenings. He is doing just fine, but no one wants to talk about it.
I have always liked Louie and I thought he earned a little more deference on his scandal by virtue of the fact that he was one of the few that seems to have genuinely recognized and corrected his behavior years before that scandal was made public. I think a lot of the details of what he was accused with got lost in the grabby headlines too. I saw one of his live shows recently with my wife and he is as funny as ever, and his audience is very much still there.
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RAÏSanÏa
Member
He made note of saying his behavior towards others changed due to the pain of social ostracism which would be the point to most people regarding the issue that got him in trouble and drawing a public line. His reasoning presented in the clip sounded like selfish fear when talking about it as though it was the unfair or random result of a dangerous world and not a reaction to the perception of what happened. He doesn't seem to get that people had good reasons to see him as a danger they were told about. Him saying adapting to that would be hard is understandable, comparing it to motherhood was ...something. However, he doesn't appear to feel in any position to try that business again, yet if he thought the world wasn't so dangerous he might recidivate.
How that affects his comedy for me is negatively, but I wasn't a big fan before.
How that affects his comedy for me is negatively, but I wasn't a big fan before.
RAÏSanÏa
Member
The only thing I can think of that may need clarification: He's not Weinstein but the build up to bringing Weinstein down was happening at the same time. People were up in arms worse than usual about Hollywood and sexual misconduct. An overreacted to his alleged transgressions happened due to public mood and perceptions.
That I Love You, Daddy film coming out at the same time sure didn't help.
LegendOfKage
Member
Reading this just now reminded me of this video. If you've never seen it, it's an amazing example of exactly what you're talking about.
Sure, it was a different time back then, but when you think of what this man admitted to on national television and the power dynamic at play throughout the whole situation, this monologue very likely saved his career.
One of the incidents was over the phone iirc which made the outrage even more baffling. I never followed up to learn more since I was burned out on Louis C.K. at the time.
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
Regarding the power dynamic thing I think it's important to note that all of the accusations predate his fame. At the time Louis had not had any televised stand up specials, and played small clubs. He did work as a writer on shows like the Dana Carvey Show and the Chris Rock Show and it would be reasonable to say the other comedians in the incident looked up to him, the "power dynamic" dimension is pretty overstated, and at no point was he accused of anything transactional in terms of sex for career advancement.
He also never did anything without permission, the issue was just that in one particular incident it sounds like the yes was meant as a joke (or made with the assumption that Louie's question was a joke) and not as real consent.
There are a lot of reasons why what he did wasn't okay, so I don't mean to minimize it but a lot of people have an impression of what happened that is very different from the details reported in the original Times article.
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
That's not at all what he said. Louie changed his behavior 10 years before the story ever came out. And while he never addressed the specific reasons for it, it's notable that it coincides with the time he became the father of two girls. He clearly managed to reassess that on his own and stopped long before it became a career issue.
What he says in the interview was just that he took his career for granted, that he never thought something like that could happen to him. Not that those consequences were the reason he stopped making gross propositions to women.
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rbanke
Member
Louis CK was the first big instance of all this cancel culture where I felt it was obvious people had become more interested in maintaining outrage and finding the next person to burn at the stake than actually solving a problem. I just couldn't understand why it was a big deal at all. To me, he's right up there with Carlin and it sucks we've been mostly robbed of his comedy being front and center.
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RAÏSanÏa
Member
Addressing those reasons and talking about that more would probably help in the public mind better as to current risks, since, as noted, there's continuing misconception around time frames, and even the nature of the original complaint. However, it should also be noted that sexual misconduct is one of those things that some think should have no time limit. Playing off even possiblity of the misconception occuring in the past as irrelevant conflicts that bringing heat. It's complicated since there are some genuine values being sorted out amidst all the chaos.
GeekyDad
Member
"Hinky." That's a Dave original right there. Ugh...get the heebie jeebies everytime he uses that shit. Ugh!Had a feeling that movie Late Night was possibly based on a true story, and now I'm thinking it was likely based on this particular story.
Definitely self-serving of Letterman. Definitely necessary. Seemingly done in about as tactful and respectful a manner as could have been done.
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Lunarorbit
Member
I can only listen to so many stories about jacking off. That was an issue before the allegations came out.
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
When it happened is relevant for two main reasons:
1) It does reframe the power dynamic in the situation. Louie was not famous and influential in the way that he would later become.
2) Because he recognized what he was doing was wrong and corrected it on his own, rather than simply addressing it when he was caught or called out as most do.
So it's not so much about it being "past the statue of limitations" or anything but the timeline is important to understanding the events as well as the sincerity of Louie's apology.
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
Louie is doing just fine. He's selling tickets and specials more than ever, making movies. He's fine. The narrative in the press is still negative and that's probably not going to change but he's uniquely able to whether this sort of thing by connecting with fans directly.
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
This is the issue. There's little distinction between the worst monsters like Weinstein and Cosby and the people who just made some bad judgements and need to learn some lessons like Aziz Ansari and Louie.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Aziz did nothing wrong. The thot had blower's remorse.
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
He probably misread the situation/"assumed the sale" a little too much. Which seems kind of like what happened with Louie as well. In their own telling those women told Louie "yes," they just didn't mean it sincerely/thought it was a joke.
Neither of which would be considered a crime, but they made those women uncomfortable.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
She slept with him several times that night. She was mad that all he wanted was a one night stand. She probably felt cheap after and did the typical club girl walk of shame. There was no "sexual assault" and that's why Twitter was so divided and people are saying "buyer's remorse" will muddy the "MeToo" movement.
LegendOfKage
Member
Oh, I understand all that. I was talking about David Letterman, who had sex with at least two women who worked for him, and did so while he was married. Now THAT is a power dynamic, but different time, so he got off without any professional consequences.
If you read the article itself that first reported on the incident, you might feel differently. She never slept with him, and all "remorse" happened in the moment, because she refused to do anything other than oral. Aziz never disagreed with any of the details in her version of the events, and they sound pretty bad. Nothing illegal, but also not to the point of "did nothing wrong" arguably. It's an uncomfortable grey area at best, but his behavior still sounded pretty slimy considering the woman kept telling him no.
Then again, I wasn't there, and I'm not going to judge the man for the rest of his life either, but the incident itself didn't sound great. I'm not sure it really ever needed to be national news either. The guy was a jerk on a date and made a woman feel used. I'm sure MUCH worse happens with celebrities all time, but his situation just had to happen in the middle of me too.
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SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
He wasn't accused of sexual assault though, that's why they used that much broader umbrella of "sexual misconduct." Her accusation was that he kind of badgered her into sex after repeatedly telling him no and she gave in. Which isn't criminal, but sure isn't very nice.
Louie is in a similar class of "misconduct but not assault." Asking what are essentially co-workers to watch you jerk off is inappropriate, regardless of consent, and in that one case the consent seemed to be less than enthusiastic.
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JonSnowball
Member
I like Louis. Take it from Sarah Silverman, sometimes it's fun to watch Louis masturbate in front of you. That makes him entertaining in at least three ways. Comedian, actor, and masturbator.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Fair points, yeah. I still fail to see the assault part of it. Just leave and don't do the deed.
Hollyweird stays weird. Targets are picked and chosen, others overlooked for "reasons."
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LegendOfKage
Member
The man just performed a sold out show at Madison Square Garden, and Louis CK is trending on twitter, along with people suggesting this is proof that cancel culture doesn't exist.
Was it good? The live broadcast was too early for my timezone. My wife is a big Louis CK fan.
It's all in the wrist
Member
Good stuff. Love seeing Louis put on his glasses to read from the Bible lol.
Thats because its never been about "Justice" its always been about "Revenge".
Bill Burr is the goat. Chappelle has fallen IMO.
gaming_again
Member
Other way around imo.
Chapelle’s stuff just feels dated now but he’s still a master performer. His SNL bit about Kanye was good.
I was obsessed with Burr at one point but he’s really fallen hard. Marriage did a number on his sense of humour. Happiness and comedy don’t mix.
Denton
Member
I saw a short two minute clip on twitter yesterday where he talked about a very played out overdone topic of abortions, and...I laughed my ass off. He still got it.
And yeah, no shit super famous people with large audiences can keep working even when canceled.
Bigger problem is when regular people get canceled and can't get something as basic as a bank account, because the bank doesn't like something they posted on twitter, for example..
And yeah, no shit super famous people with large audiences can keep working even when canceled.
Bigger problem is when regular people get canceled and can't get something as basic as a bank account, because the bank doesn't like something they posted on twitter, for example..
Batiman
Banned
I always found his comedy so inconsistent. Some of his material is funny as hell while others were just meh. His creepy material was always funny but after what he did it’s hard for me to find some of that shit funny now. Like it’s hard to tell if he’s joking with some of his jokes now after his creepy ass behaviour.
Batiman
Banned
I sort of agree cancel culture isn’t real. I used to believe it was a problem but when I really think about it. No one really gets canceled. If there is money go make he will get work. That’s just the free market
gaming_again
Member
Brah if I told my boss how I actually feel about the various initiatives and programmes we have to give lip service to I would be fired tomorrow.
In 2015 my boss would have agreed with me.
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Comedians don’t get their jokes delivered by the Stork after nine months. It comes from within them. You come up with a perverted joke because part of you is perverted. You crack a great joke at someone else’s expense because you harbor dark thoughts and insecurities directed inward. You make clever observational humor after getting unreasonably hung up on things that most people brush off.
Louis is a little perverted, Larry David is a little selfish and cantankerous, Bill Burr is a little sexist. And that’s okay. They’re willing to put themselves out there in a vulnerable state to share their quirks with the world, amplify them heavily, and help us realize that it’s all part of the human condition, the absurd state of being alive.
It should not surprise you that Louis has done something perverted in his life. A standup routine is just that, though. It is not the literal truth about someone.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
I've thought long and hard about this and ultimately I don't think its about revenge so much as its simply about power and status.
By abusing the "freaks" and "criminals" a person asserts their moral righteousness and social superiority. They get a little dopamine hit of peer validation and the security from being a card-carrying member of their particular "tribe".
Its a powerful tool because the perceptual value of social status is hard-wired into human psychobiology. Even parasocial types like psychopaths play this game (witholding information from investigators long after their guilt is beyond doubt, or revelling in the sheer evilness of deeds to create an infamous persona) because even lacking in conscience and empathy they can comprehend the benefit to themselves of manipulating these power/status dynamics.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yeah ive read the article and she blew Aziz after he went down on her. He then stuck his fingers in her mouth which turned her off. She wanted to leave. He let her and called her a cab. Then asked if she was ok the next day. She said he had made her feel uncomfortable. He apologized. Aside from shoving his fingers down in her mouth, he did nothing wrong and was straight up gentlemanly about it. And btw, the fingers or claw or whatever she called it isnt even that bad considering she had just taken his dick in her mouth. He probably thought she was game for some kinky shit. Regardless, its an uncomfortable sexual encounter. not misconduct or rape or assault or worth trashing someone's life over.
What Louis CK did was far more grey in nature since he pulled out his dick in a non-sexual setting. But even he fucking asked the women first and only did it when they said yes. Inappropriate? yes, but rape or assault? He literally asked for their permission!
Batiman
Banned
If it affects the business in a negative way then you’d be fired. Same at my workplace and I’m not a public figure. It would be the same for whatever political side you lean on.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I've grown to respect comedians more than ever thanks to listening to the podcasts like the Thursday Afternoon Just Before Friday Monday Morning Podcast or Joe Rogan and his guests. A joke is often times like a diamond the rough that needs to go around and refined based on audience and feedback. The comedian who really harnesses things are those who make something out of the most ridiculous things. The craft is something that isn't just you going up and riffing although some have that gift. It's mining these diamonds out of nothing or going into unknown areas that people find harder. The lowest hanging fruit are sex jokes or something about race. I like it all but the better jokes for me are those which almost tell a story and interweave.
It's like Carlin once said, the thing is to take something offensive or taboo and by the time he goes through the bit you bring people past that line feeling comfortable. It's never too soon when it comes to laughter.
It's like Carlin once said, the thing is to take something offensive or taboo and by the time he goes through the bit you bring people past that line feeling comfortable. It's never too soon when it comes to laughter.
SpiceRacz
Member
Chapelle > Burr
Netflix specials. It's ruining comedy. I don't know if Netflix pressures them at all about their material, but it generally brings out the worst in comedians. Stand up comedy as a whole has gone down in quality since every comedian started getting a special on Netflix.
Lots of truth in this statement IMO.
GeekyDad
Member
Sure, sure. I always got the impression his philosophical approach (or paradigm) is to simply talk about shit people don't want to think about. I think by "getting it out there," there's some release from the chains of paranoia.
Now, regarding "what he did" was jerk off in front of consenting adults. If I'm wrong, please correct me, but that's my understanding. Honestly, that doesn't creep me out. Seeing him in Louie and (assuming) the reflection of his lifestyle is, well, I wouldn't say creepy so much as just kinda shitty.
But he's funny.
And the reason he's no longer "cancelled" is because people need their fix, and there ain't many good suppliers around.
And Bill Burr is a c*ocksucking, arrogant piece of sh*t. That's just my personal opinion. He's f*cking trash, and I'd like to watch CK jerk off on him.
I too would like to watch that very much.