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[Jinfash]

We need to start a betting thread in the future on how long a full charge will last when playing Uncharted with 3G/WiFi/Bluetooth on, full brightness, and full volume on speakers.

 

[Angry Fork]

wut @ such a big box for that memory stick. Why? Wouldn't it be better (and more interesting) to have a small box? Maybe they don't want to mess up shelf stuff in stores I guess.

 

[mehdi_san]

wut @ such a big box for that memory stick. Why? Wouldn't it be better (and more interesting) to have a small box? Maybe they don't want to mess up shelf stuff in stores I guess.

It's actually really small, smaller than a regular PS3 case

 

[gogogow]

wut @ such a big box for that memory stick. Why? Wouldn't it be better (and more interesting) to have a small box? Maybe they don't want to mess up shelf stuff in stores I guess.

It looks big, but it's smaller than a PSP box. Volume-wise it's even smaller than a DS box.

 

[FoxSpirit]

Samsung is leading with AMOLED technology. They already have a 5.3 inch AMOLED panel with a resolution of 1280x800, which will be used in their new Samsung Galaxy Note device, released before the end of 2011.

And of course these phones are more expensive than the Vita, because they actually make a profit unlike Sony which is selling it at a loss or breakeven.

Yeah, will be a resolution monster. But in return, Pentile again. Plus I hope that doesn't mean vanilla-SGS colours. Ugh. I'm not sure if this will beat the Vita's screen at all, resolution aside.

 

[Durante]

I really really dislike what Pentile does to hard geometric content such as text or web page layouts. It's awful. It works well enough for photos and videos, but I'd never buy a device with a Pentile matrix. (I currently own a Galaxy S2 and used a Galaxy S for a while)

 

[JORMBO]

I assumed it was going to be required to buy a memory card. Those prices suck though

 

[Jburton]

and they also have internal memory, lets not forget that.

Not all of them do chum.

 

[gogogow]

Yeah, will be a resolution monster. But in return, Pentile again. Plus I hope that doesn't mean vanilla-SGS colours. Ugh. I'm not sure if this will beat the Vita's screen at all, resolution aside.

What pentile? Samsung adressed that alread with the S-AMOLED Plus panels. It's not a marketing trick or whatsoever. Plus uses the RGB Sub-pixel structure, which is used in all the LCD displays out there. That solved the resolution problem.
The Galaxy Tab 7.7 uses a 7.7 inch S-AMOLED Plus running at a resolution of 1280x800. NO PENTILE!

 

[darkwing]

wut @ such a big box for that memory stick. Why? Wouldn't it be better (and more interesting) to have a small box? Maybe they don't want to mess up shelf stuff in stores I guess.

what? it's smaller than a PSP game box

edit: beaten

 

[Angry Fork]

Yea I see it's a good size my bad, on it's own it looks big compared to the memory card but relative to the other stuff it's good.

 

[Oppo]

I really really dislike what Pentile does to hard geometric content such as text or web page layouts. It's awful. It works well enough for photos and videos, but I'd never buy a device with a Pentile matrix. (I currently own a Galaxy S2 and used a Galaxy S for a while)

Wow, bravo. That is one of the most hilariously nitpicky things I've ever seen, and I've been surfing the Internet for a long, long time.

Not even gonna disagree with you there but I just love the specificity of it. Using Pentile! Ye Gods, that's living like an animal.

carry on

 

[FoxSpirit]

What pentile? Samsung adressed that alread with the S-AMOLED Plus panels. It's not a marketing trick or whatsoever. Plus uses the RGB Sub-pixel structure, which is used in all the LCD displays out there. That solved the resolution problem.
The Galaxy Tab 7.7 uses a 7.7 inch S-AMOLED Plus running at a resolution of 1280x800. NO PENTILE!

We were talking about the Galaxy Note, my friend

The Tab 7.7 will certainly look awesome, no question. But google REALLY has to do something about the android markets gaming section because compared to iOS is terrible. And aparently people just love to play on pad devices.

But there is one thing the SGS-II does badly and that's good colours. The gamma curves are off (okay, don't care much), the whitepoint is weirdly unstable when you shift the brightness. And it bands. How can you band so bad I notice it on a 4" screen? >:-(
Still love it but wp and banding are a bit of a bummer.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

A little video of Sony's Monster Radar app:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5qjjiqZCC0

Probably will never release outside Japan, and I'm not at all sure what it's about, but it's got a quirky style

Invizimals is gonna be the shit.

 

[gogogow]

We were talking about the Galaxy Note, my friend

The Tab 7.7 will certainly look awesome, no question. But google REALLY has to do something about the android markets gaming section because compared to iOS is terrible. And aparently people just love to play on pad devices.

It doesn't matter what we were talking about. People act like Super AMOLED Plus doesn't exist, which fixed the S-AMOLED pentile issue.

We certainly weren't talking about marketplaces, which is an entirely different topic than displays (Google needs to fix a lot of shit in Android itself not only the marketplace).

And what do we know about Vita's OLED screen, other than the resolution?

 

[BeEatNU]

sorry if noted, alot to search through but this is region free right?

im pretty sure but can't find confirmation of it

 

[Cipherr]

Yeah, will be a resolution monster. But in return, Pentile again. Plus I hope that doesn't mean vanilla-SGS colours. Ugh. I'm not sure if this will beat the Vita's screen at all, resolution aside.

Im sorry but since when was the Galaxy Note a pentile display? Because last I checked engadget confirmed it was a RGB layout. No pentile, SAMOLED+ design. As in all awesome, no negatives. It was rumored that their new HD Samoled screens would be pentile, but it turned out not to be.

This is sooooo off topic.

Wow, bravo. That is one of the most hilariously nitpicky things I've ever seen, and I've been surfing the Internet for a long, long time.

Not even gonna disagree with you there but I just love the specificity of it. Using Pentile! Ye Gods, that's living like an animal.

carry on

Pentile is horrifying on displays with low pixel density. Its is very worthy of the heckling and hatred it gets. I dont want to buy a 700$ device and essentially look at the display through a screendoor. Its terrible looking. Wouldnt be so much of a problem at high PPI, but still.

 

[FoxSpirit]

It doesn't matter what we were talking about. People act like Super AMOLED Plus doesn't exist, which fixed the S-AMOLED pentile issue.

We certainly weren't talking about marketplaces, which is an entirely different topic than displays (Google needs to fix a lot of shit in Android itself not only the marketplace).

And what do we know about Vita's OLED screen, other than the resolution?

You were saying

Samsung is leading with AMOLED technology. They already have a 5.3 inch AMOLED panel with a resolution of 1280x800, which will be used in their new Samsung Galaxy Note device, released before the end of 2011.

But that 5.3" panel has pentile unlike the 7.7" Galaxy Tab. You claimed technology leadership from that. So yes, it does matter what we were talking about.

We know the Vita screen is from Sony. And from Sony we know that they are making pro-grade OLEDs unlike Samsung.
My guess is that the panels will be Sony's STE-AMOLED since it makes little sense that Sony deviates from the one technology they use in all of their other panels.

Now, I'm not expecting a 10-bit colour driver but I expect Sony to at least use something that will not heavily band and ensure a stable white-point across all brightness leveös.

 

[Durante]

Galaxy Note was first reported to use Pentile, but there have been conflicting reports since.

Wow, bravo. That is one of the most hilariously nitpicky things I've ever seen, and I've been surfing the Internet for a long, long time.

Not even gonna disagree with you there but I just love the specificity of it. Using Pentile! Ye Gods, that's living like an animal.

You should see me ranting about games only offering FXAA and MLAA and no real AA option.

I'm unapologetically, consistently nitpicky when it comes to image quality.

 

[FoxSpirit]

You should see me ranting about games only offering FXAA and MLAA and no real AA option.

I'm unapologetically, consistently nitpicky when it comes to image quality.

In places FXAA produces better IQ then MSAA because MSAA doesn't anti-alias the shaders so it's not even nitpicking ;-)

 

[Ydahs]

The only difference between Samsung amoled and super amoled plus is the lack of pentile. This screen doesn't use a pentile display and is already superior to the one you have in your phone due to its resolution

Resolution isn't the only determining factor of what makes a better screen. Super AMOLED Plus also provides other benefits over Super AMOLED.

Errrr, no, just no. Super-AMOLED-plus is just marketing speak. The technology is called AMOLED and the rest is marketing phrases to specify certain variations from certain manufacturers.

Sony actually makes stuff like:
http://www.oled-info.com/sony-pvm-2551md
http://www.oled-info.com/sony-bvm-f250f170
Overview: http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-monitors/cat-oledmonitors/

Actually Sony's OLEDs are likely better than Samsung. Colour accuracy on SGS-II, banding, consistent white point?? Ahem, Samsung, ahem... Sony took the high route and the technology fallout for the Vita screen from those is reportedly impressive.

Your examples show why I doubt Sony's own OLED technology will match Samsung's. Samsung is the leader in OLED screens for portable devices and would have invested a whole lot more in research than Sony in that area, who focuses more on larger displays.

Marketing term or not, Super AMOLED Plus is regarded by many as the best smart phone screen on the market, despite having a lower resolution than its competitors. I would be very surprised if Sony can create a screen which tops that found in the SGS-II, especially with pricing under consideration.

sorry if noted, alot to search through but this is region free right?

im pretty sure but can't find confirmation of it

I don't think there has been an official announcement about it, but I think an executive from a European branch mentioned that to the best of his knowledge, it is region free. Would be nice to get an official confirmation though.

 

[Durante]

In places FXAA produces better IQ then MSAA because MSAA doesn't anti-alias the shaders so it's not even nitpicking ;-)

In contrast, FXAA (and MLAA) doesn't anti-alias anything. It selectively blurs stuff. Real anti-aliasing adds information to the resulting image, a post-processing step can never do that. And it's not like I dislike FXAA.

Also, the only "real AA" is of course SGSSAA

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

Shuhei Yoshida just gave me some bad news:

You'll still need PS3's Adhoc Party to play PSP games online via the Vita.

original PSP games were coded to work that way, so that just seems like an unfortunate compatibility issue. at least we know now that you can tether your PSV to your PS3 if you don't have a wireless router in your home and either don't have the 3G unit or don't want to use your data.

 

[Jinfash]

Shuhei Yoshida just gave me some bad news:

You'll still need PS3's Adhoc Party to play PSP games online via the Vita.

I am sad.

But it was a long shot anyways.

 

[FoxSpirit]

Your examples show why I doubt Sony's own OLED technology will match Samsung's. Samsung is the leader in OLED screens for portable devices and would have invested a whole lot more in research than Sony in that area, who focuses more on larger displays.

Marketing term or not, Super AMOLED Plus is regarded by many as the best smart phone screen on the market, despite having a lower resolution than its competitors. I would be very surprised if Sony can create a screen which tops that found in the SGS-II, especially with pricing under consideration.

You'd be surprised at the price of the SGS-II screen, it's been estimated to something like $60-80. Around a 20% price premium from comparative screen at this point. That would be a quarter to a third of the Vita's cost.

Okay, so you say you doubt the endevours in small screens? See here ;-)
http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-monitors/cat-oledmonitors/product-PVM740/
7.4" at Vita's resolution.
Yeah, I know it's 2.5k but most of that comes from the prograde electronics and features. Plus unlike the Vita, markup.
And then you have this:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=443044
1280x720 0.7" AMOLED display. And reports say it looks really great.

So Sony has definitely been pumping a lot of money into small screens. The SAMOLED-plus screen is nothing special, it's a last generation AMOLED screen. But so far Samsung simply had no competition so of course it's the best screen around ;-)

disclaimer: I own a SGS-II. Dualcore and SAMOLEDplus made me do it.

In contrast, FXAA (and MLAA) doesn't anti-alias anything. It selectively blurs stuff. Real anti-aliasing adds information to the resulting image, a post-processing step can never do that. And it's not like I dislike FXAA.

Also, the only "real AA" is of course SGSSAA

You have my sword

 

[Fafalada]

a post-processing step can never do that.

[nitpick]There are 'temporal'-post process algorithms that use data from multiple frames to reconstruct higher-frequencies (be it you use them for higher resolution or AA) - so that's clearly "real" data being added into a frame[/nitpick].

On topic, I agree Japan's fear of AA(as well as texture filtering) is pretty annoying.

 

[Ydahs]

You'd be surprised at the price of the SGS-II screen, it's been estimated to something like $60-80. Around a 20% price premium from comparative screen at this point. That would be a quarter to a third of the Vita's cost.

Okay, so you say you doubt the endevours in small screens? See here ;-)
http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-monitors/cat-oledmonitors/product-PVM740/
7.4" at Vita's resolution.
Yeah, I know it's 2.5k but most of that comes from the prograde electronics and features. Plus unlike the Vita, markup.
And then you have this:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=443044
1280x720 0.7" AMOLED display. And reports say it looks really great.

So Sony has definitely been pumping a lot of money into small screens. The SAMOLED-plus screen is nothing special, it's a last generation AMOLED screen. But so far Samsung simply had no competition so of course it's the best screen around ;-)

disclaimer: I own a SGS-II. Dualcore and SAMOLEDplus made me do it.


You have my sword

Fair points. I guess the only way we can tell is once we get it in our hands

Also, I sometimes feel that my SGS-II's screen is nothing special but I think that's because I've gotten used to it, since every new person who sees it thinks otherwise!

 

[1-D_FTW]

In places FXAA produces better IQ then MSAA because MSAA doesn't anti-alias the shaders so it's not even nitpicking ;-)

Sure it is. FXAA sucks. I'm currently running Trackmania 2 with the shaders on "fast" because this allows the real AA options to be unlocked (Nicest Shaders forces FXAA). And the difference is stark. Game looks SO much better without everything being a jaggy mess. If shaders are the problem, they need to go back to the drawing board for AA techniques because FXAA is almost placebo-like useless.

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

3 to 5 hours...really?

Jesus...battery tech cannot compare to...everything else tech these days.

So...my portable is kinda sorta...NOT portable then unless I'm super responsible about having the battery fully charged.

Vita 2.0 might be on the books for me now.

 

[mclem]

sorry if noted, alot to search through but this is region free right?

im pretty sure but can't find confirmation of it

I've not seen *concrete* proof that's not attached with a disclaimer along the lines of "I *think* it is". Although I've seen so many bits of non-concrete proof that I believe it is indeed region free. I'd just like something in writing without any uncertainty

 

[FoxSpirit]

Fair points. I guess the only way we can tell is once we get it in our hands

Also, I sometimes feel that my SGS-II's screen is nothing special but I think that's because I've gotten used to it, since every new person who sees it thinks otherwise!

Haha, yeah.
*sigh*I'd also really like to have the money to buy one of those 25" monitors, compared to the SGS-II display my PC monitor looks so dull.

Sure it is. FXAA sucks. I'm currently running Trackmania 2 with the shaders on "fast" because this allows the real AA options to be unlocked (Nicest Shaders forces FXAA). And the difference is stark. Game looks SO much better without everything being a jaggy mess. If shaders are the problem, they need to go back to the drawing board for AA techniques because FXAA is almost placebo-like useless.

Maybe something is wrong with the implementation but calling FXAA placebo-like useless is stretching it.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=438638

3 to 5 hours...really?

Jesus...battery tech cannot compare to...everything else tech these days.

So...my portable is kinda sorta...NOT portable then unless I'm super responsible about having the battery fully charged.

Vita 2.0 might be on the books for me now.

I wouldn't bet on drastically improving battery life. I bet on this:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=30948446&postcount=507

 

[Famassu]

3 to 5 hours...really?

Jesus...battery tech cannot compare to...everything else tech these days.

So...my portable is kinda sorta...NOT portable then unless I'm super responsible about having the battery fully charged.

Vita 2.0 might be on the books for me now.

Sony has confirmed they will be offering external batteries for those who think 3-5 hours is too little.

 

[Durante]

[nitpick]There are 'temporal'-post process algorithms that use data from multiple frames to reconstruct higher-frequencies (be it you use them for higher resolution or AA) - so that's clearly "real" data being added into a frame[/nitpick].

I've thought about this before, but I could never imagine a way of doing this that is usable in real-time. Are there any examples of that?

On topic, I agree Japan's fear of AA(as well as texture filtering) is pretty annoying.

What makes it even more annoying for me is that I have no idea as to the reasons why it's the case.

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

I wouldn't bet on drastically improving battery life. I bet on this:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=30948446&postcount=507

Which is more reason to hold off on a day one purchase as far as I am concerned.

Man.

Even though there weren't any must-have launch day titles, I was still looking at getting a Vita on launch.

The battery life news makes me think I can afford to wait for that "killer app" I really want. Maybe even wait long enough for an improved version of the Vita to come out.

I understand that the Vita is pushing some seriously gorgeous tech with it's display...but that 3 to 5 hour window is a significant barrier to me.

: /

Sony has confirmed they will be offering external batteries for those who think 3-5 hours is too little.

I appreciate the response.

With that said, an external battery for a portable gaming system is just so...stupid, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Yoboman]

Which is more reason to hold off on a day one purchase as far as I am concerned.

Man.

Even though there weren't any must-have launch day titles, I was still looking at getting a Vita on launch.

The battery life news makes me think I can afford to wait for that "killer app" I really want. Maybe even wait long enough for an improved version of the Vita to come out.

I understand that the Vita is pushing some seriously gorgeous tech with it's display...but that 3 to 5 hour window is a significant barrier to me.

: /

You'll be waiting a long time. Probably forever. The original PSP's battery life was about that long, Sony had ambitions to reduce the size of the unit more than improve battery life. I don't doubt Vita will be the same

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

You'll be waiting a long time. Probably forever. The original PSP's battery life was about that long, Sony had ambitions to reduce the size of the unit more than improve battery life. I don't doubt Vita will be the same

I play the hell out of my PSP and if it's about the same as the Vita...then it's definitely on the 5 hour end if not longer.

Infact...I'm gonna time a full charge this weekend and see what's what.

 

[george_us]

It looks big, but it's smaller than a PSP box. Volume-wise it's even smaller than a DS box.

That's MUCH smaller than I initially thought they were. I literally thought they were PS3 size cases.

 

[mclem]

Has there been any mention of game prices yet? I think that's the only piece of the puzzle that's missing.

 

[Yoboman]

I play the hell out of my PSP and if it's about the same as the Vita...then it's definitely on the 5 hour end if not longer.

Infact...I'm gonna time a full charge this weekend and see what's what.

Well Sony's original estimation for PSP was 3- 5 hours. I recall when it came out, people were pleasantly surprised that it lasted a bit longer than expected

 

[Number45]

Has there been any mention of game prices yet? I think that's the only piece of the puzzle that's missing.

Depends on the size of the cart.

4GB ¥2,200
8GB ¥3,200
16GB ¥5,500
32GB ¥9,500

Spoiler

Sorry, no idea.

 

[Fafalada]

I've thought about this before, but I could never imagine a way of doing this that is usable in real-time. Are there any examples of that?

IIRC there was a Toshiba (or Panasonic?) TV prototype demoed a few years back that did upscaling of this sort with interesting results.
I agree it seems of limited use for interactive content though (you'd need to work on more information then just color to get anywhere, and even then, it'd likely be subject to sudden variations in IQ).

What makes it even more annoying for me is that I have no idea as to the reasons why it's the case.

Back in PS2 days it gave me the impression it's a cultural thing. People find something aesthetically interesting in seeing the pixels or what not - but I could also be just imagining things.

 

[Ramune]

Has anyone asked them regarding PSN accounts and if content from one region will be playable on another's account on the same machine much like the PS3 and not the PSP? I gotta know!

 

[Dead Prince]

Needs multiple accounts saving because I need all my games to work from other accounts and region

 

[Lonely1]

I don't like that the box sticks out when compared to the PSP ones. It will mess up my arrange. :/

 

[/XX/]

We know the Vita screen is from Sony.

Sorry for asking you this, but, could you post here a source attesting that information, please?

 

[Famassu]

With that said, an external battery for a portable gaming system is just so...stupid, as far as I'm concerned.

It is, but until someone either makes a breakthrough in technology sucking up significantly less power (that can be applied to Vita/3DS) or some of those awesome sounding new battery technologies that are still in (more or less) experimental stages come into mass production, there's really not that much Sony or Nintendo can do to improve battery life (at least without making the handhelds themselves bigger to allow for bigger batteries).

 

[plainr_]

Has anyone asked them regarding PSN accounts and if content from one region will be playable on another's account on the same machine much like the PS3 and not the PSP? I gotta know!

Yes this we gotta know. Somebody should ask Yoshida on Twitter.

 

[kitch9]

In contrast, FXAA (and MLAA) doesn't anti-alias anything. It selectively blurs stuff. Real anti-aliasing adds information to the resulting image, a post-processing step can never do that. And it's not like I dislike FXAA.

Also, the only "real AA" is of course SGSSAA

In shader heavy games using deferred rendering engines MSAA is next to useless though. Unfortunately that is most engines nowadays.

 

[Durante]

In shader heavy games using deferred rendering engines MSAA is next to useless though. Unfortunately that is most engines nowadays.

I don't agree. It's still really good for polygon edges, just slightly harder to implement (and you need DX11 support). In combination with shader programming that is sampling aware it can have great results.

 

[FoxSpirit]

Sorry for asking you this, but, could you post here a source attesting that information, please?

There is none, but if it was Samsung we would have heard the news quite some time ago.
Plus Sony is the only active quality* OLED-display manufacturer next to Samsung, it wouldn't make sense to get it from someone else.

*there are a few manufacturers for small, low res oleds