Support NeoGAF

[onQ123]

What? Where. At this point it's clear you simply don't understand perspective, field of view etc but I'm curious.

It's not perspective the building is made that way because it's on uneven ground

 

[Ehker]

Already got your back.

LOL

 

[TheAdmiester]

I wonder if he thinks the building is leaning because it doesn't line up with the fence. Would be funny if that were the case.

Honestly that's what I'm starting to think. That part of Monaco has a cambered road, so the car (and naturally the camera) will tilt to the right, making it look like the surroundings are skewing to the left. I really hope I haven't been trying to argue something *that* simple though...

 

[KageMaru]

It's not perspective the building is made that way because it's on uneven ground

You can't properly see the ground from the two screenshots presented though. So you still haven't explained why you think the building is leaning from the screens shown.

 

[paperspace]

⁣

 

[John Wick]

Had better retire Driveclub then?

Forza defence bot

 

[John Wick]

In order to tell if FM7 is a generation ahead of GTS when it comes to weather, we need something to compare to. How's the weather looking in GTS?

Ahh.. I completely forgot. Sorry about that.

Can we please stop with the stupid shitposting?

It's took Forza about 6-7 entries to get dynamic weather and TOD. And even then it's not truly dynamic or available on all tracks.

 

[dr guildo]

Wow, the game is beautiful, best Monaco representation, or at least, far better than Pcars for this track.

 

[John Wick]

Too good, this game is really underestimate... It's a shame.

Have they sorted the handling out via Joypad? It put me off thd first game.

 

[TheAdmiester]

You can't properly see the ground from the two screenshots presented though. So you still haven't explained why you think the building is leaning from the screens shown.

I thought I'd beat him to the chase and put some Lines (tm) on a real life example. If this doesn't show it then I don't know what to say.

Forza defence bot

Good god. The irony of this coming straight after "pot kettle black" is great.

 

[onQ123]

You can't properly see the ground from the two screenshots presented though. So you still haven't explained why you think the building is leaning from the screens shown.

Because I can see it

 

[KageMaru]

Because I can see it

But where or how is what you continue to fail to explain. Why bother pointing out, and more importantly, double down on what you see if you can't properly explain or illustrate it?

 

[vacantseas]

Exactly what i was going to say. You can see polygonal edges of the model in PCars compared to GTS and how they modeled the wear of the tires, the texture work is better in GTS as well.

This thread might be my favorite thing on the internet. Not sure if half these post comparing image quality are serious or not, but arguing about a tire barrier in racing games?

It's a RACING game. When driving a car on a track and the scenery is flying past, who cares what a damn tire barrier looks like, or whether the tires that make up said barrier have worn treads or not?

Now if this was Tire Barrier Simulator 2017, then yeah argue about the tire barriers all you want.

Tire barriers. Police stations. C'mon.

 

[Dinjooh]

 

[Ehker]

I'm sorry for the tire barrier thing I brought up and didn't make it clear it was in refrence to someone focused on them in the HDR thread.

Someone got banned in a thread about HDR for their stand on tire walls, and we should salute them.

 

[Head.spawn]

Was looking for new track videos for GTS and saw a new time-of-day comparison between GTS, Driveclub, and PC2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B1uhPJvSFk

Seems to me that Driveclub's lighting model still wins out on everything except straight daytime where GTS wins hands-down. Trees in DC desaturate more realistically in the background compared to GTS. GTS probably wins on lights though (tail and headlights).

Pretty impressive for a title from 2014.

I haven't played Driveclub myself, but you have to take into consideration the HDR in GTS which definitely changes things.

 

[TheAdmiester]

But where or how is what you continue to fail to explain. Why bother pointing out, and more importantly, double down on what you see if you can't properly explain or illustrate it?

If what he said is a valid argument, even in the face of evidence showing otherwise, then I now declare Stunts on MS-DOS to be the best looking game.

It's the best looking game because I can see that it is.

 

[potatohead]

Very nice

 

[theWB27]

It's took Forza about 6-7 entries to get dynamic weather and TOD. And even then it's not truly dynamic or available on all tracks.

Guess it's better than having to strip it in later entries.

 

[onQ123]

But where or how is what you continue to fail to explain. Why bother pointing out, and more importantly, double down on what you see if you can't properly explain or illustrate it?

I seen the police station setting funny & asked was it sinking into the ground

 

[carsar]

Not only GTS has good lighting, imho.

 

[Juanfp]

How is the performance in Xbox One?

 

[R8TEDM3]

Out of F1 2017, pCARS2 and Forza 7...F1 looks the best and is by far the most polished game that i've played so far out of the three!

F1 2017 PC ver. 8k native!

 

[eyeball_kid]

I haven't played Driveclub myself, but you have to take into consideration the HDR in GTS which definitely changes things.

HDR expands the tonal range, but it doesn't change the lighting model. GTS seems to apply a desaturation to even close objects during cloudy conditions, whereas DC retains a more realistic atmospheric effect on objects as they recede in the distance. Part of it is probably that DC's foliage is polygonal vs. GTS's 2D sprites, which allows more subtle lighting applications and environmental shaders.

Let's give it up for Driveclub foliage

 

[Mr Moose]

Out of F1 2017, pCARS2 and Forza 7...F1 looks the best and is by far the most polished game that i've played so far out of the three!

F1 2017 PC ver. 8k native!

The sky looks like a gradient photoshop.

From what I remember seeing from vids/pics, Forza 7 has much better skies. (I haven't seen much of Project Cars 2, and my memory is shit).

The water looks quite nice to me.

 

[KageMaru]

This thread might be my favorite thing on the internet. Not sure if half these post comparing image quality are serious or not, but arguing about a tire barrier in racing games?

It's a RACING game. When driving a car on a track and the scenery is flying past, who cares what a damn tire barrier looks like, or whether the tires that make up said barrier have worn treads or not?

Now if this was Tire Barrier Simulator 2017, then yeah argue about the tire barriers all you want.

Tire barriers. Police stations. C'mon.

In some kind of twisted way, it is nice that we have so many nice looking games that people are reduced to comparing pointless items like tire barriers.

I'm sorry for the tire barrier thing I brought up and didn't make it clear it was in refrence to someone focused on them in the HDR thread.

Someone got banned in a thread about HDR for their stand on tire walls, and we should salute them.

That dude was acting like a jackass and deserved to be banned. Forza had no place in that thread.

I seen the police station setting funny & asked was it sinking into the ground

Yes, we already know that. Now how about you point out how it looks like the building is leaning in those previous screenshots?

 

[dr guildo]

100% 3D Crowd for that last shot, just impressive watching them move, looks like real !!

@Carsar : Let's make it clear, we do not claim other games have no lighting, we just say GTS has the best one. That being said, it doesn't prevent other driving games from having a good lighting.

 

[vacantseas]

In some kind of twisted way, it is nice that we have so many nice looking games that people are reduced to comparing pointless items like tire barriers.

Very true. Each game really does look good in their own unique way and most can look photorealistic at times.

 

[Stillmatic]

/images

100% 3D Crowd for that last shot, just impressive watching them move, looks like real !!

@Carsar : Let's make it clear, we do not claim other games have no lighting, we just say GTS has the best one. That being said, it doesn't prevent other driving games from having a good lighting.

Very nice!

 

[KageMaru]

Who's @carsar?

 

[John Wick]

I think the funniest part is that he can't even give Forza the marks for IQ without a "but". It's just not possible for him to straight up compliment Forza.

You used to come to GT threads a few years ago waxing lyrical about Forza while in the meantime claiming to be a GT diehard from the PS 1 & 2 era.

 

[onQ123]

Yes, we already know that. Now how about you point out how it looks like the building is leaning in those previous screenshots?

Because it does

 

[John Wick]

Guess it's better than having to strip it in later entries.

Later entry not entries. Also GT Sport will be constantly updated so weather will be added. It might not be dynamic though.

 

[Ehker]

This building controversy never ends. Didn't EvB show why angles wouldn't line up? The only thing confusing to me about lens distortion is I think that lines should curve if a lens is pushing the perspective around.

Still, this is like a mystery that I'm not sure is worth it. Forza 7 buildings look pretty good to me.

 

[TheAdmiester]

You used to come to GT threads a few years ago waxing lyrical about Forza while in the meantime claiming to be a GT diehard from the PS 1 & 2 era.

I claimed to be because I was. Do you want proof of credentials or something? Here, I'll even throw in the PS3 era as a bonus.

Here's my GT6 and GT5 PSN trophy numbers/ranks: https://i.imgur.com/8H9Apyu.png

Here's my GT4 save stats from my most recent playthrough (on an emulator, obviously not counting PS2 saves back in 2005/6): https://i.imgur.com/Fme2sEX.jpg

Here's my GT2 save stats from my most recent playthrough (on the PSP's emulator): https://i.imgur.com/2zySXB0.png


None of those are particularly amazing statistics, but they're ones that clearly show I've played the shit out of the games. I don't think a GT hater would persist through so many of the titles as much as I have - I *was* as huge of a GT fan as I claimed. Am I not qualified to criticise the direction GT has gone in? Just because I don't like what GTS has changed/dropped doesn't mean I'm just a GT hater; I'm allowed to enjoy both series while preferring a particular one.

 

[John Wick]

I claimed to be because I was. Do you want proof of credentials or something? Here, I'll even throw in the PS3 era as a bonus.

Here's my GT6 and GT5 PSN trophy numbers/ranks: https://i.imgur.com/8H9Apyu.png

Here's my GT4 save stats from my most recent playthrough (on an emulator, obviously not counting PS2 saves back in 2005/6): https://i.imgur.com/Fme2sEX.jpg

Here's my GT2 save stats from my most recent playthrough (on the PSP's emulator): https://i.imgur.com/2zySXB0.png


None of those are particularly amazing statistics, but they're ones that clearly show I've played the shit out of the games. I don't think a GT hater would persist through so many of the titles as much as I have - I *was* as huge of a GT fan as I claimed. Am I not qualified to criticise the direction GT has gone in? Just because I don't like what GTS has changed/dropped doesn't mean I'm just a GT hater; I'm allowed to enjoy both series while preferring a particular one.

Boom! Exactly. You used to always demean GT while always being positive about Forza. See the irony???

 

[TheAdmiester]

Boom! Exactly. You used to always demean GT while always being positive about Forza. See the irony???

Being critical of GT6 and GT Sport isn't demeaning GT, so no, there is no irony there.

I don't see how anything I said in that quote warrants a "boom exactly" as if I contradicted myself?

 

[VinFTW]

Is there anybody who's played both the GT:S demo and Forza 7 mind if I send them a few PM's w/ questions regarding how they play?

I know this isn't really the thread to ask since it's about graphics, so I didn't want to crowd the "discussion".

 

[thelastword]

Forza is one of the worst games I've seen in terms of in-game reflections management and I think it stays the same in F7? AI cars do not reflect the environment in real-time, which gives them that cut-out aspect, and the player's car, the only one that does reflect in real time from the external camera, also omits many basic reflections and what it reflects while playing has very little precission. Playing from the cockpit view is much worse since the car body also does not reflect the environment in real-time. All this is very evident when passing under bridges or when entering or leaving some tunnels.

One of the things that make GT reflections unique, apart from looking great in-game, is that they accurately wrap the world over the car, and I mean that you can place the car in a point of the circuit and get an accurate representation of the same real car at that point of the circuit. I also have not seen that in Project Cars where the in-game reflections over the car are weird. People think that by passing under a streetlight and being reflected in the car or when approaching a sign and seeing in detail reflected in the body is already a sign that has good reflections but there are more parameters that shows the attention of detail and quality, aside of resolution and framerate.

There was a similar problem with the sun position and sun shadow projections regarding the real world tracks that does not match in some games. That is a thing that GT games always represent acurately, with limitations but trying to do it well.

Well I spoke about the reflections in a recent post a few pages back and that was my conclusion as well. Forza's reflections off cars or off light sources in tunnels et al, leave alot to be desired....Notwithstanding, it's reflection quality is already running at half refresh and even then it's higher resolution is not maintained whist a pack of cars race in the environment/tracks. Resolution drops off when there are many cars on screen or at certain locations on track with higher detail or spotlights...It's looking like resolution scales based on load. That on top of the game missing many details like no headlights as soon as it gets dark or in tunnels...This just shows Forza does not have a Dynamic TOD going on at all...

Those tire walls are great. More detail in the used tires compared to the ones in GTS.

Seriously though, nice PCars2 pics.

Absolutely not. Are you guys watching these shots at full resolution? The tires in PC2 have clear polygonal edges compared to GT and of course I'm pretty sure such tires with good enough treads, would not necessarily be in a wall but rather at the used tire shop...In any case, GTS gives the most accurate presentation here on both counts...

Also, looking at these pics, PC2 cars trackside detail is just awful in many cases, even the shot with the tirewall...and the other shots.....Lots of low rez textures it's really several steps below the other games tbh.......IQ wise PC2 is really not that great. Lots of visual noise on fences, lots of shimmering and aliasing on consoles as well.

What game is that? I wants it.

Come on now.....

F1 is a much better looking game than PC2, it's not even funny. I'm impressed with the GPGPU and fp16 work these guys did on consoles. A great looking game at 60fps, lots of cars on screen. A model for other multiplatform devs....

My goodness, I played so much stunts on PC back in the day. That and Scorched Earth.....I think this game was what got to me to like car games apart from GT1 on PS1. Still remember that ferrari/red car in stunts...

Good enough?

https://youtu.be/fukUHb9r0Ug?t=8

Funny, that all the persons who were talking about car shake missing in GTS, said nothing about this video. So much movement both in cockpit view and on the car body itself. The movement of the aero flaps on that tomahawk was really well done too...Overall such a fast car....

 

[Tripolygon]

This thread might be my favorite thing on the internet. Not sure if half these post comparing image quality are serious or not, but arguing about a tire barrier in racing games?

It's a RACING game. When driving a car on a track and the scenery is flying past, who cares what a damn tire barrier looks like, or whether the tires that make up said barrier have worn treads or not?

Now if this was Tire Barrier Simulator 2017, then yeah argue about the tire barriers all you want.

Tire barriers. Police stations. C'mon.

You glossed over the original post that made the claim about the tire barriers and quoted mine that is simply commenting on the comparison shots.

If you are above engaging in this thread, you can simply GTFO, this is a graphics comparison thread, i don't know how many times this needs to be pointed out. We've been discussing environmental details in these games since the thread was created. And that includes everything to even the freaking trees, grasses, sparks, dirt on the windscreen and yes freaking sand textures on the side of the road.

FYI the purpose of this thread is to keep such discussions contained in one thread rather than having people derail the respective games OT.

 

[KageMaru]

Because it does

Just because you say it does doesn't make it so. How about you put the least amount of effort and visibly point it out. You took screenshots and circled my posts before with the thought that you caught me in some contradiction. So how about you put the same effort in pointing out what you see?

Being critical of GT6 and GT Sport isn't demeaning GT, so no, there is no irony there.

I don't see how anything I said in that quote warrants a "boom exactly" as if I contradicted myself?

Didn't you know? You can't criticize certain games without being labeled as a fanboy.

 

[Mr Moose]

Absolutely not. Are you guys watching these shots at full resolution? The tires in PC2 have clear polygonal edges compared to GT and of course I'm pretty sure such tires with good enough treads, would not necessarily be in a wall but rather at the used tire shop...In any case, GTS gives the most accurate presentation here on both counts...

It's the same with GTS, the same with Forza 7. They all look like that (not fully round). Maybe to a lesser extent but it's there.

I agree that GTS looks better in the wall though (though I tire of this topic... *cough*).

...

I'll see myself out.

 

[Darkdeus]

A few more Pcars 2 screens from some of my flickr contacts. GTS is looking really good but it's too bad it's console only. Playing at 4-8K on the PC with full LOD models would be fantastic.

 

[BBQ_of_DOOM]

A few more Pcars 2 screens from some of my flickr contacts. GTS is looking really good but it's too bad it's console only. Playing at 4-8K on the PC with full LOD models would be fantastic.

If there was ever a temptation to build a PC...

 

[Tripolygon]

A few more Pcars 2 screens from some of my flickr contacts. GTS is looking really good but it's too bad it's console only. Playing at 4-8K on the PC with full LOD models would be fantastic.

Gorgeous shots but these are my favorite.

 

[flipswitch]

How many polygons are in the full LOD models on PC? I have it running on pc, and yeah they’re very impressive, super detailed.

 

[Head.spawn]

This thread might be my favorite thing on the internet. Not sure if half these post comparing image quality are serious or not, but arguing about a tire barrier in racing games?

It's a RACING game. When driving a car on a track and the scenery is flying past, who cares what a damn tire barrier looks like, or whether the tires that make up said barrier have worn treads or not?

Now if this was Tire Barrier Simulator 2017, then yeah argue about the tire barriers all you want.

Tire barriers. Police stations. C'mon.

What it I like crashing into the barriers and watching the tires shake around?

Let me live my life!

 

[Darkdeus]

If there was ever a temptation to build a PC...

The BEST thing about racing on the PC is playing in VR. It's so natural and easy to drive in VR compared to a TV or monitor. You have to play downsampled from 4K though with the highest settings or it'll look blurry in the distance.

It's too bad the PS4 doesn't have enough power for a full grid and high AA in PSVR. It still will probably look fairly good and be a lot of fun but it has a lot of room for improvement.

 

[TheAdmiester]

How many polygons are in the full LOD models on PC? I have it running on pc, and yeah they're very impressive, super detailed.

This is the guideline that pCARS' vehicle modelers had to follow, as per WMD:

LODX = 200-300k - (only used for GUI, photomode and with player car when Ultra detail is set)
LODA = 60k - High detail LOD (~0-10 metres from player)
LODB = 25k - Mid distance LOD (~10-30 metre)
LODC = 3.5k - Far distance LOD (~30-80 metre)
LODD = 0.7k - Furthest distance (~80-800 metre)
CPIT = 60k - 1st person cockpit (basically similar detail level as LODX, but optimized for game use)


Another interesting bit of info is that some cars are modelled over official manufacturer CAD models, which are incomprehensibly detailed in some cases. For example, the original CAD data they used for the Mercedes SLS AMG GT3 was 19.5 million triangles, and one of the vehicle artists was fighting 3DS Max to even be able to open it.

 

[flipswitch]

Thanks for the info, I had trouble finding the numbers. Does this game have 24hr day/night cycle for every track? I haven’t had a chance to check yet.