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[charlequin]

The price for the new machine, which will also be equipped with advanced wireless communications functions, is expected to be below 20,000 yen ($189) in Japan, compared with 16,800 yen for the current model, the Nikkei said.

Oh I see what's going on here. This new model is being introduced to let Nintendo raise the DS price a second time.

Probably the GBA compatibility will be removed.

Been over this already. Nintendo can't remove the GBA processor from the DS (it's used by all DS games), can't meaningfully make the system thinner, and wouldn't want to remove the slot without an attendant cost break because an extremely major DS third-party franchise uses it (as does Nintendo's highest selling first-party game.)

If the chip could be cut, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see a DS followup that removed GBA compatibility directly but kept the "expansion slot," but since that's not an option it'll still be there.

I wonder if the major point of this new DS is to ensure incompatability with various flash cards.

It's not impossible, but what a huge waste of money on Nintendo's part if it is. Even in the wildest success scenario this model will never have nearly as many units on the market as existing Phats and Lites, and it's unlikely that the revision would stop the flashcard manufacturers for very long at all.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

It would make me a sad panda if this DS version doesn't see light in the USA.

(which is what the blog was implying)

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Been over this already. Nintendo can't remove the GBA processor from the DS (it's used by all DS games), can't meaningfully make the system thinner, and wouldn't want to remove the slot without an attendant cost break because an extremely major DS third-party franchise uses it (as does Nintendo's highest selling first-party game.)

If the chip could be cut, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see a DS followup that removed GBA compatibility directly but kept the "expansion slot," but since that's not an option it'll still be there.

Excuse me, but I don't see why keeping the Arm7 would automatically imply that the slot cannot be removed.

 

[Starchasing]

Same with Korg DS!. I see no logic for only one to be touchable.

The logis is that when you use the stylus you cover the screen... so having a nother screen makes up for that

 

[Jocchan]

Excuse me, but I don't see why keeping the Arm7 would automatically imply that the slot cannot be removed.

He doesn't say this, and the GBA slot is used by several DS games (including Guitar Hero and Pokemon) and peripherals (RAM expansion, Arkanoid paddle and rumble pak).

 

[Pureauthor]

Excuse me, but I don't see why keeping the Arm7 would automatically imply that the slot cannot be removed.

Not that the slot cannot be removed, but there is no good reason for the slot to be removed.

 

[Mejilan]

I wouldn't worry about a JP-only release. It's extremely likely, at this point, that Nintendo's Oct. 2 event will at least partially revolve around this new DS. And, IIRC, NoA is scheduled to have a similar even on or around the same day, no?

Excuse me, but I don't see why keeping the Arm7 would automatically imply that the slot cannot be removed.

Because removing the slot won't really save any money (since the arm7 must be retained), and would break compatibility with/features of too many truly major games. You have to weigh in cost vs benefits ratios, and in this scenario, there's basically no cost reduction, and definitely no benefit. So why bother? Pokemon and Guitar Heroes are just too damn important.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

He doesn't say this, and the GBA slot is used by several DS games (including Guitar Hero and Pokemon) and peripherals (RAM expansion, Arkanoid paddle and rumble pak).

Mmm. Ok, you got a point here, but actually it still prevents the DS to become thinner. But maybe Nintendo doesn't want this to happen. But keep in mind that if (and only if) Nintendo's plan is to compete with multimedia's players (or sort of), dimensions are an important factor.
Again, a thinner DS would be amazing in this sense. A loss because of this slot actually.

 

[Pureauthor]

Mmm. Ok, you got a point here, but actually it still prevents the DS to become thinner. But maybe Nintendo doesn't want this to happen. But keep in mind that if (and only if) Nintendo's plan is to compete with multimedia's players (or sort of), dimensions are an important factor.
Again, a thinner DS would be amazing in this sense. A loss because of this slot actually.

Remember that the DS, whatever iteration is is, still begins and ends as a videogaming device. There is definitely a limit to how small you can squeeze it while still retaining ergonomic features. I remember hating the GBASP because it was so cramped. >_>

 

[Jocchan]

Mmm. Ok, you got a point here, but actually it still prevents the DS to become thinner. But maybe Nintendo doesn't want this to happen. But keep in mind that if (and only if) Nintendo's plan is to compete with multimedia's players (or sort of), dimensions are an important factor.
Again, a thinner DS would be amazing in this sense. A loss because of this slot actually.

Yes, I agree a thinner DS would be amazing, but even on a DS Lite the GBA slot only takes less than half of the machine's whole thickness. So, it's not such an issue after all.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Remember that the DS, whatever iteration is is, still begins and ends as a videogaming device. There is definitely a limit to how small you can squeeze it while still retaining ergonomic features. I remember hating the GBASP because it was so cramped. >_>

Not in my case actually. Anyway, thinner doens't mean necessarily a smaller length or a smaller height. Actually, I meant a smaller width! That's why the GBA's slot is an obstacle: to keep a smooth appearance, the minimum width is given exactly by this slot.

Of course, as you pointed you, changing the other two parameters result only in decreasing the ergonomics. So, we already can conclude that the redesign will be actually more of an internal redesign and that's quite disappointing somehow.

For something different probably we'll have to wait for the formal successor. Quite a loss.

 

[Jocchan]

Now the real question is...

 

[Starchasing]

I wonder if it will have a internet browser built in ... and i wonder about voip too... they could use a special DSconnect24

 

[charlequin]

Excuse me, but I don't see why keeping the Arm7 would automatically imply that the slot cannot be removed.

The point is that there are many different reasons to keep it. You can't save money by removing it and you break a good number existing games, both first and third party -- and the only physical benefit of removing the slot is minimal because you really just can't meaningfully make the DS much thinner than the Lite. If it were a cost-benefit analysis (is it worth the money we save to screw Activision?) I could see either side winning but given that there is no benefit there is no reason to incur the cost.

 

[thetrin]

The question is, can I take upskirt pics with my DS on the train to work?

 

[Mejilan]

The question is, can I take upskirt pics with my DS on the train to work?

Funny story. Some dude try to do that to a woman here in the NY subways, as she was climbing up a set of stairs. She got pissed off, whipped out her own camera, snapped a picture of his face, and reported the incident (with photo evidence) to the police. Dude got picked up a few hours later. :lol

 

[swerve]

I'm getting close to

waiting for October 2nd now.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

Hrmmm...well, with this it seems we WON'T have a new (next-gen) Nintendo portable anytime soon. It seems as much a refresh for competitions sake as it is a prolonging of the current generation NDS. It could also be that they've worked on the firmware to be upgradable and less likely hackable (also a problem for the current NDS as it is), which begs to ask: is the aim of this to be a side option model (like the Q or the GBmini) or as a phase-in replacement (like GBAsp or NDSlite)? We don't know those details.

I'm all for speculation and I'd be happy if this would be the set-up for more multi-media (or DS Channel) features, better WFC gaming/Wii connectivity and the crux for competition: downloadable games (whether DSWare or Virtual Handheld), but again...we don't know, but I guess we'll know more soon enough.

 

[thetrin]

Funny story. Some dude try to do that to a woman here in the NY subways, as she was climbing up a set of stairs. She got pissed off, whipped out her own camera, snapped a picture of his face, and reported the incident (with photo evidence) to the police. Dude got picked up a few hours later. :lol

The amount of paperwork I had to go through that day gave me a migraine. You'd think she would have been flattered about the attention.

 

[Mejilan]

The amount of paperwork I had to go through that day gave me a migraine. You'd think she would have been flattered about the attention.

Live and learn. At least with a DS, your actions would be partially camouflaged. ;p

 

[HK-47]

And? Homebrew should die in Nintendos eyes. But there is also the Nintendo MP3 Player as a GBA Slotcard.
I think they just want to kill all kinds of pirate and homebrew


I can't handle a lite. My hands hurt after 20minutes. The Phat doesn' look that breakable either.

Like they could actually kill piracy.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Been over this already. Nintendo can't remove the GBA processor from the DS (it's used by all DS games), can't meaningfully make the system thinner, and wouldn't want to remove the slot without an attendant cost break because an extremely major DS third-party franchise uses it (as does Nintendo's highest selling first-party game.)

Nintendogs uses it?

 

[HK-47]

The point is that there are many different reasons to keep it. You can't save money by removing it and you break a good number existing games, both first and third party -- and the only physical benefit of removing the slot is minimal because you really just can't meaningfully make the DS much thinner than the Lite. If it were a cost-benefit analysis (is it worth the money we save to screw Activision?) I could see either side winning but given that there is no benefit there is no reason to incur the cost.

Fight on GBA Slot warrior. Common sense will win some day!

 

[comedy bomb]

I can see them removing the GBA slot. GBA games are really no longer available at retail, and Guitar Hero isn't a big deal in Japan.

This thing won't make it out in the US until next year, if at all. That's plenty of time for the GH games to sell through.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Fight on GBA Slot warrior. Common sense will win some day!

Actually it wasn't my point either. I was talking about the impact of the slot on the external aspect of the handheld.

 

[Diablohead]

I can see them removing the GBA slot. GBA games are really no longer available at retail, and Guitar Hero isn't a big deal in Japan.

This thing won't make it out in the US until next year, if at all. That's plenty of time for the GH games to sell through.

They could leave the slot on as only an expansion slot, and remove the gba chip inside, imo I would not mind since the only gba games used were sonic advance games.

 

[Mejilan]

The "GBA chip" is the arm7 processor. DS games use both the arm9 and the arm7. The arm7 processor is NOT going to be removed.

 

[BishopLamont]

I would like to know on which sources are based their articles. Anyway, we'll see shortly if this new DS is actually reality.

It's 100% real, don't know why you are still doubting it.

 

[theviolenthero]

The ONLY improvement that they needed to make would be scratch-proof screens.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

They could leave the slot on as only an expansion slot, and remove the gba chip inside, imo I would not mind since the only gba games used were sonic advance games.

You know, the Arm7 is still quite used by almost every game. if I recall it correctly, there are two chips inside the DS: an arm7 and an arm9. The former for the 3D/2.5D and the latter for 2D only. One chip imply one screen. If you remove one of them, I don't think you can visualise both screens in real time.

It's 100% real, don't know why you are still doubting it.

You know, Nintendo going multimedia is not that -normal- actually.

 

[[Nintex]]

The ARM7 is used for the touchscreen and other things like sound, they won't drop it.

Or they could somehow cram a new chip in there that combines both the ARM7 and ARM9 functions and allows for full B/C and a higher resolution for the larger screens... hmm

Edit: They might as well release a new DS if they're going to do a new chipset so the ARM7 and ARM9 will remain I think.

 

[ksamedi]

The point is that there are many different reasons to keep it. You can't save money by removing it and you break a good number existing games, both first and third party -- and the only physical benefit of removing the slot is minimal because you really just can't meaningfully make the DS much thinner than the Lite. If it were a cost-benefit analysis (is it worth the money we save to screw Activision?) I could see either side winning but given that there is no benefit there is no reason to incur the cost.

The lights will not be discontinued though, and I think this model is meant to expand the DS audiance even further (the bigger screens are most definitly for older people). The audiance that wanted the GBA slot probably already ownes a DS in Japan. I have a feeling they will remove the slot and replace it with a sd card slot.

 

[RagnarokX]

Could this mean the return of a beloved GB Camera mascot?

 

[Diablohead]

You know, the Arm7 is still quite used by almost every game. if I recall it correctly, there are two chips inside the DS: an arm7 and an arm9. The former for the 3D/2.5D and the latter for 2D only. One chip imply one screen. If you remove one of them, I don't think you can visualise both screens in real time.

Never realised it was used in DS games.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Perhaps, while removing SLOT-2 and the ARM 7, they'll remove the 240x160 section of screen where GBA games were played.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

The ARM7 is used for the touchscreen and other things like sound, they won't drop it.

Or they could somehow cram a new chip in there that combines both the ARM7 and ARM9 functions and allows for full B/C and a higher resolution for the larger screens... hmm

Edit: They might as well release a new DS if they're going to do a new chipset so the ARM7 and ARM9 will remain I think.

Yeah, if they did that they might as well make a DS2, because that is too much effort for a redesign.

 

[lyre]

Perhaps, while removing SLOT-2 and the ARM 7, they'll remove the 240x160 section of screen where GBA games were played.

The battery also doesn't effect gameplay at all! That should be removed as well.
Also get rid of the speakers as well, since EVERYONE uses headphones anyway.
And since all DS games sound terrible, everyone will be better off with silent DS games. Both the volume switch and headphone jack plus mic port can be removed.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

The battery also doesn't effect gameplay at all! That should be removed as well.
Also get rid of the speakers as well, since EVERYONE uses headphones anyway.
And since all DS games sound terrible, everyone will be better off with silent DS games. Both the volume switch and headphone jack plus mic port can be removed.

Greatest consul EVAR!!!!1111

:lol

 

[lyre]

And don't get me started on archaic face and shoulder buttons; voice commands are the future of gaming.

And if it weren't for the fact that voice commands are a gimmick, the mic is out as well.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

And don't get me started on archaic face and shoulder buttons; voice commands are the future of gaming.

Future hardcore gamers = Opera singers

 

[HK-47]

Actually it wasn't my point either. I was talking about the impact of the slot on the external aspect of the handheld.

Not much.

 

[charlequin]

The lights will not be discontinued though

You know this based on... what, exactly?

 

[HK-47]

I can see them removing the GBA slot. GBA games are really no longer available at retail, and Guitar Hero isn't a big deal in Japan.

This thing won't make it out in the US until next year, if at all. That's plenty of time for the GH games to sell through.

So Nintendo wants to screw over GH and Pokemon. Insignificant games amirite?

 

[Regulus Tera]

And don't get me started on archaic face and shoulder buttons; voice commands are the future of gaming.

And if it weren't for the fact that voice commands are a gimmick, the mic is out as well.

What I wouldn't give for a voice-driven Parappa the Rappa portable game...

 

[ksamedi]

You know this based on... what, exactly?

Well its pretty obvious they will raise the price of this new DS model. I think that's reason enough to keep the DS Lite as a cheaper alternative.

 

[charlequin]

Well its pretty obvious they will reaise the price of this new DS model.

...like they did with the DS Lite when it was announced?

 

[ksamedi]

...like they did with the DS Lite when it was announced?

You think they will raise the price again?

 

[MoogPaul]

Lite at an even 100 and new model for 150.
I could live with that.

 

[Stumpokapow]

You know, the Arm7 is still quite used by almost every game. if I recall it correctly, there are two chips inside the DS: an arm7 and an arm9. The former for the 3D/2.5D and the latter for 2D only. One chip imply one screen. If you remove one of them, I don't think you can visualise both screens in real time.

I'll elaborate on this.

When you boot a DS game, the ARM7 processor boots first. All current DS games have an ARM7 executable. Removing the ARM7 will render all DS games unable to boot.

When one screen is 3D and one screen is 2D, the ARM7 is powering the 2D screen. When both screens are 3D (several games do this; there is a framerate cost associated), the ARM7 is not powering any active screen. Removing the ARM7 will render all DS games with a 2d screen (80%+ of the library) unable to display.

When you touch the touch screen, the ARM7 handles your input. Only the ARM7 can do this in the current architecture. Without the ARM7, no past DS game can access the touch screen, and if future games used the ARM9 given a new hardware architecture, no past DSs could access the touch screen using the ARM9.

Any time your DS uses local ad-hoc Wifi or Nintendo WFC, the ARM7 is driving this connection. Without the ARM7, download play, wireless games, and WFC all cease to work.

The ARM7 also constitutes just under one third of the DSs general processing power. Removing it will not only break existing games, it will kneecap the DS on a go-forward basis. I guess the bright side would be instead of being video-constrained in terms of gameplay opportunities, it'd be processor constrained. Yippie!

I hope people continue to reply to the thread suggesting that the ARM7 will be removed.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

Lite at an even 100 and new model for 150.
I could live with that.

This new model will likely retail for $200