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Nicola Sturgeon: 2nd Independence Referendum IS on the table - supported by manifesto

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https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/746291118896123904

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36621030

The manifesto on which the SNP was elected mere months ago stated the below:

"The Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014 such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against its will".

Looks like the #indyref2 will definitely happen.

Full speech - thanks Massivenights

Thank you for joining me this morning after a long night - and a long few months - for all of us.

Yesterday, Scotland - like London and Northern Ireland - voted overwhelmingly to remain in the European Union.

We voted to protect our place in the world's biggest single market - and the jobs and investment that depend on it.

We voted to safeguard our freedom to travel, live, work and study in other European countries.

And we voted to renew our reputation as an outward looking, open and inclusive country.

It is significant - in my view - that we did so after a campaign that was positive about the EU and about the benefits of migration.

Indeed, I want to take the opportunity this morning to speak directly to citizens of other European countries living here in Scotland - you remain welcome here, Scotland is your home and your contribution is valued.

Unfortunately, of course, yesterday's result in Scotland was not echoed across the whole of the United Kingdom.

That UK wide vote to leave the EU is one that I deeply regret.

It remains my passionate belief that it is better for all parts of the UK to be members of the European Union.

But the vote across England and Wales was a rejection of the EU.

And it was a sign of divergence between Scotland and large parts of the rest of the UK in how we see our place in the world.

But this vote wasn't just about the EU - it was also a clear expression of the disaffection with the political system that is felt in too many communities.

Communities taken for granted by Labour for generations and punished with austerity cuts by the Tories for a financial crisis they didn't cause, used this referendum to make their voices heard.

The Westminster establishment has some serious soul searching to do - and I hope that it does it.

But as First Minister of Scotland I have a duty to respond - not just to the outcome across the UK - but also and in particular to the democratic decision taken by the people of Scotland.

As things stand, Scotland faces the prospect of being taken out of the EU against our will.

I regard that as democratically unacceptable.

And of course we face that prospect less than two years after being told that it was our own referendum on independence that would end our membership of the European Union and that only a rejection of independence could protect it.

Indeed for many people the supposed guarantee of remaining in the EU was a driver in their decision to vote to stay within the UK.

So there is no doubt that yesterday's result represents a significant and a material change of the circumstances in which Scotland voted against independence in 2014.

My job now is to act responsibly and in the interests of all of Scotland.

The Cabinet will meet early tomorrow morning to discuss our next steps in more detail but I want to set out some immediate priorities.

Firstly, we have an urgent job to do to provide as much reassurance and certainty as we can.

I spoke a short while ago to the Governor of the Bank of England to discuss his plans to reassure the markets and restore financial stability.

Starting this afternoon Ministers will be engaged this afternoon in discussions with key stakeholders - particularly in the business community - to emphasise that as of now we are still firmly in the EU. Trade and business should continue as normal and we are determined that Scotland will continue now and in the future to be an attractive and stable place to do business. Our resilience committee will meet later this afternoon to oversee these immediate actions.

Secondly, I want to make it absolutely clear today that I intend to take all possible steps and explore all options to give effect to how people in Scotland voted - in other words, to secure our continuing place in the EU and in the single market in particular.

To that end, I have made clear to the Prime Minister this morning that the Scottish Government must be fully and directly involved in any and all decisions about the next steps that the UK government intends to take.

We will also be seeking direct discussions with the EU institutions and its member states, including the earliest possible meeting with the President of the European Commission.

I will also be communicating over this weekend with each EU member state to make clear that Scotland has voted to stay in the EU - and that I intend to discuss all options for doing so.

I should say that I have also spoken this morning with Mayor Sadiq Khan and he is clear that he shares this objective for London - so there is clear common cause between us.

The discussions that take place over the coming days and weeks will, of course, be led by government but I will seek the support and ensure the involvement of the Scottish Parliament at every step of the way.

I intend to speak to all party leaders later today and make a full statement to the Chamber on Tuesday.

I will also make a further statement following tomorrow's meeting of the Scottish Cabinet.

Lastly, let me address the issue of a second independence referendum.

The manifesto that the SNP was elected on last month said this -

"The Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum...if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out the EU against our will.�

Scotland does now face that prospect - it is a significant and material change in circumstances - and it is therefore a statement of the obvious that the option of a second referendum must be on the table. And it is on the table.

Clearly, though, there are many discussion to be had before final decisions are taken.

It would not be right to rush to judgment ahead of discussions on how Scotland�s result will be responded to by the EU.

However, when the Article 50 process is triggered in three months time, the UK will be on a two year path to the EU exit door.

If Parliament judges that a second referendum is the best or only way to protect our place in Europe, it must have the option to hold one within that timescale.

That means we must act now to protect that position. I can therefore confirm today that in order to protect that position we will begin to prepare the required legislation to enable a new independence referendum to take place if and when Parliament so decides.

To conclude, this is not a situation that I wanted Scotland or the UK to be in today.

My responsibility in a climate of uncertainty is to seek to lead us forward with purpose.

I know that there is a lot of thinking and talking to be done in the period that lies ahead. These are complex issues that we face.

There are many people who voted against independence in 2014 who are today reassessing their decision.

But I know they will not want me to simply assume their support or to hear me talk about the challenges we face as if they are straightforward - they would want me to be straight and honest with them.

Now is the time for me as First Minister to seek to lead the country forward as one.

The need to act decisively must be tempered with the need to build consensus - and it will be. That is my duty as First Minister.

After a campaign that has been characterised in the rest of the UK by fear and hate, my priority in the days, weeks and months ahead, will be to act at all times in the best interests of Scotland - and in a way that unites not divides us.

And let me also be clear about this - whatever happens as a result of this outcome, England, Wales and Northern Ireland will always be Scotland's closest neighbours and our best friends. Nothing will ever change that.

But I want to leave no-one in any doubt about this.

I am proud of Scotland and how we voted yesterday. We proved that we are a modern, outward looking, open and inclusive country.

And we said clearly that we do not want to leave the EU.

I am determined that we do what it takes to make sure that these aspirations are realised.

I closing let me say just a word or two about the Prime Minister.

David Cameron and I have very many political disagreements - not least over the conduct of this referendum.

But - as I am learning every single day - leadership is not easy. David has been the Prime Minister of the UK for six years. It is a tough job and, whatever our disagreements, he deserves our thanks for his service. I wish him and his family well for the future.
 

Chariot

Member
Without a doubt.

Just look at this:
DQO6jOG.jpg

And this time even Rowling changed her stance.
It was close the last time, but way things are now, it looks pretty bad for England.
 
The referendum in Scotland had a higher turnout and larger gap of votes than the EU referendum.

Stats:

Scottish independence
stay - 55.3%
leave - 44.7%
turnout - 84.59%

EU referendum
stay - 48.1%
leave - 51.9%
turnout - 72.2%


If Scottish independence gets a second referendum, so should the EU referendum.
 

Anth1888

Member
Inevitable it was going to be announced. I voted No but will change mind, it makes me sick that Gove, Farage, May or Boris will be PM. Many of my friends will change as well. One of the BetterTogether pros was EU membership.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
The referendum in Scotland had a higher turnout and larger gap of votes than the EU referendum.

If Scottish independence gets a second referendum, so should the EU referendum.

This doesn't make any sense.

Scotland voted for status quo. Now the status quo changed against their will. Scotland deserves another chance to decide its fate because the conditions have changed dramatically.

Not to even mention that one of the threats against Scottish independence was that they won't be able to (easily) join EU.
 
Seems inevitable given the way the voting went.

I was firmly in the better together camp last time, but I'd be fully in support of leaving this time around.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
I'm voting for independence this time around.

So Scotland will become a independent country and have to negotiate entry into the EU. That would mean that Scotland would have to adopt the Euro.

Fun times.
 

jelly

Member
It sucks, we were in the EU with good terms and now we have left but may get in with worse terms. Fuck sake.
 
The referendum in Scotland had a higher turnout and larger gap of votes than the EU referendum.

Stats:

Scottish independence
stay - 55.3%
leave - 44.7%
turnout - 84.59%

EU referendum
stay - 48.1%
leave - 51.9%
turnout - 72.2%


If Scottish independence gets a second referendum, so should the EU referendum.

Ummm this is wrong.

It was 62-38 last night.
 

kiguel182

Member
It seems like whoever voted to leave the EU didn't think of the consequences this would bring for the UK as a whole.

Scotland totally deserves another vote since England decided to change things like this.
 
This doesn't make any sense.

Scotland voted for status quo. Now the status quo changed against their will. Scotland deserves another chance to decide its fate because the conditions have changed dramatically.

Not to even mention that one of the threats against Scottish independence was that they won't be able to (easily) join EU.

oh come on. The call for a second referendum is not a new thing that is caused by this referendum.

London has a bigger population than scotland and also voted to stay, should they gain independance? No of course not. We are in this together.

The thing that has annoyed me most about david cameron is not that he allowed the referendum to happen, or even that he caused the result due to his goverments inability to listen to people. It's that he is now abandoning us. Now scotland wants to do the same thing.

I get why Scotland would want to leave, as someone who lives in a district that voted remain sometimes I wish you would and take us with you. But that is not the best thing to do and becoming more divided is a bad idea.

Ummm this is wrong.

It was 62-38 last night.

Im talking about overall, not in scotland.
 
Ireland is still the UK's largest trading partner and it hasn't been a part of the UK in almost 100 years. For a long, long, long time to come, rUK will be Scotland's largest trading partner thanks to a combination of shared culture, shared language, a shared land border and established trade already in existence. I'm not entirely sure that it's in Scotland's best interests to leave a UK where they have free access to this and join an EU where they do not. That said, as with the last referendum, I don't really give much of a shit either way so whatever floats their boat I guess.
 
oh come on. The call for a second referendum is not a new thing that is caused by this referendum.

London has a bigger population than scotland and also voted to stay, should they gain independance? No of course not. We are in this together.

The thing that has annoyed me most about david cameron is not that he allowed the referendum to happen, or even that he caused the result due to his goverments inability to listen to people. It's that he is now abandoning us.

I get why Scotland would want to leave, as someone who lives in a district that voted remain sometimes I wish you would and take us with you. But that is not the best thing to do and becoming more divided is a bad idea.


Your percentages were wrong. The vote to remain in the EU was a traditional political landslide.
 
The referendum in Scotland had a higher turnout and larger gap of votes than the EU referendum.

Stats:

Scottish independence
stay - 55.3%
leave - 44.7%
turnout - 84.59%

EU referendum
stay - 48.1%
leave - 51.9%
turnout - 72.2%


If Scottish independence gets a second referendum, so should the EU referendum.

But one of the main arguments given during the Scottish Referendum was that staying in the UK would mean staying in the EU.
 

Hagi

Member
Looking forward to the pure schadenfreude of a Boris led "Better Together" campaign. Think the prevailing answer will be

tumblr_npea1oWM3Z1qkom91o1_400.jpg
 

Fliesen

Member
it should be on the table, but let's not jump to the conclusion that Scotland loves the EU so much that they'd secede from the UK over it.

Both times, the scottish voted "let's not change the status quo".

The scottish majority voted for "Stay in the UK, stay in the EU"
That tells us nothing about what they'd vote when it's "EU vs UK", essentially.

But yeah, another referendum should at least be on the table.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
it should be on the table, but let's not jump to the conclusion that Scotland loves the EU so much that they'd secede from the UK over it.

Both times, the scottish voted "let's not change the status quo".

The scottish majority voted for "Stay in the UK, stay in the EU"
That tells us nothing about what they'd vote when it's "EU vs UK", essentially.

But yeah, another referendum should at least be on the table.


I live in Scotland. If there is another vote then we are definitely going to vote for independence. It's only a matter of when not if.
 
Nicola Sturgeon's full speech:

Thank you for joining me this morning after a long night - and a long few months - for all of us.

Yesterday, Scotland - like London and Northern Ireland - voted overwhelmingly to remain in the European Union.

We voted to protect our place in the world's biggest single market - and the jobs and investment that depend on it.

We voted to safeguard our freedom to travel, live, work and study in other European countries.

And we voted to renew our reputation as an outward looking, open and inclusive country.

It is significant - in my view - that we did so after a campaign that was positive about the EU and about the benefits of migration.

Indeed, I want to take the opportunity this morning to speak directly to citizens of other European countries living here in Scotland - you remain welcome here, Scotland is your home and your contribution is valued.

Unfortunately, of course, yesterday's result in Scotland was not echoed across the whole of the United Kingdom.

That UK wide vote to leave the EU is one that I deeply regret.

It remains my passionate belief that it is better for all parts of the UK to be members of the European Union.

But the vote across England and Wales was a rejection of the EU.

And it was a sign of divergence between Scotland and large parts of the rest of the UK in how we see our place in the world.

But this vote wasn't just about the EU - it was also a clear expression of the disaffection with the political system that is felt in too many communities.

Communities taken for granted by Labour for generations and punished with austerity cuts by the Tories for a financial crisis they didn't cause, used this referendum to make their voices heard.

The Westminster establishment has some serious soul searching to do - and I hope that it does it.

But as First Minister of Scotland I have a duty to respond - not just to the outcome across the UK - but also and in particular to the democratic decision taken by the people of Scotland.

As things stand, Scotland faces the prospect of being taken out of the EU against our will.

I regard that as democratically unacceptable.

And of course we face that prospect less than two years after being told that it was our own referendum on independence that would end our membership of the European Union and that only a rejection of independence could protect it.

Indeed for many people the supposed guarantee of remaining in the EU was a driver in their decision to vote to stay within the UK.

So there is no doubt that yesterday's result represents a significant and a material change of the circumstances in which Scotland voted against independence in 2014.

My job now is to act responsibly and in the interests of all of Scotland.

The Cabinet will meet early tomorrow morning to discuss our next steps in more detail but I want to set out some immediate priorities.

Firstly, we have an urgent job to do to provide as much reassurance and certainty as we can.

I spoke a short while ago to the Governor of the Bank of England to discuss his plans to reassure the markets and restore financial stability.

Starting this afternoon Ministers will be engaged this afternoon in discussions with key stakeholders - particularly in the business community - to emphasise that as of now we are still firmly in the EU. Trade and business should continue as normal and we are determined that Scotland will continue now and in the future to be an attractive and stable place to do business. Our resilience committee will meet later this afternoon to oversee these immediate actions.

Secondly, I want to make it absolutely clear today that I intend to take all possible steps and explore all options to give effect to how people in Scotland voted - in other words, to secure our continuing place in the EU and in the single market in particular.

To that end, I have made clear to the Prime Minister this morning that the Scottish Government must be fully and directly involved in any and all decisions about the next steps that the UK government intends to take.

We will also be seeking direct discussions with the EU institutions and its member states, including the earliest possible meeting with the President of the European Commission.

I will also be communicating over this weekend with each EU member state to make clear that Scotland has voted to stay in the EU - and that I intend to discuss all options for doing so.

I should say that I have also spoken this morning with Mayor Sadiq Khan and he is clear that he shares this objective for London - so there is clear common cause between us.

The discussions that take place over the coming days and weeks will, of course, be led by government but I will seek the support and ensure the involvement of the Scottish Parliament at every step of the way.

I intend to speak to all party leaders later today and make a full statement to the Chamber on Tuesday.

I will also make a further statement following tomorrow's meeting of the Scottish Cabinet.

Lastly, let me address the issue of a second independence referendum.

The manifesto that the SNP was elected on last month said this -

"The Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum...if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out the EU against our will.”

Scotland does now face that prospect - it is a significant and material change in circumstances - and it is therefore a statement of the obvious that the option of a second referendum must be on the table. And it is on the table.

Clearly, though, there are many discussion to be had before final decisions are taken.

It would not be right to rush to judgment ahead of discussions on how Scotland’s result will be responded to by the EU.

However, when the Article 50 process is triggered in three months time, the UK will be on a two year path to the EU exit door.

If Parliament judges that a second referendum is the best or only way to protect our place in Europe, it must have the option to hold one within that timescale.

That means we must act now to protect that position. I can therefore confirm today that in order to protect that position we will begin to prepare the required legislation to enable a new independence referendum to take place if and when Parliament so decides.

To conclude, this is not a situation that I wanted Scotland or the UK to be in today.

My responsibility in a climate of uncertainty is to seek to lead us forward with purpose.

I know that there is a lot of thinking and talking to be done in the period that lies ahead. These are complex issues that we face.

There are many people who voted against independence in 2014 who are today reassessing their decision.

But I know they will not want me to simply assume their support or to hear me talk about the challenges we face as if they are straightforward - they would want me to be straight and honest with them.

Now is the time for me as First Minister to seek to lead the country forward as one.

The need to act decisively must be tempered with the need to build consensus - and it will be. That is my duty as First Minister.

After a campaign that has been characterised in the rest of the UK by fear and hate, my priority in the days, weeks and months ahead, will be to act at all times in the best interests of Scotland - and in a way that unites not divides us.

And let me also be clear about this - whatever happens as a result of this outcome, England, Wales and Northern Ireland will always be Scotland's closest neighbours and our best friends. Nothing will ever change that.

But I want to leave no-one in any doubt about this.

I am proud of Scotland and how we voted yesterday. We proved that we are a modern, outward looking, open and inclusive country.

And we said clearly that we do not want to leave the EU.

I am determined that we do what it takes to make sure that these aspirations are realised.

I closing let me say just a word or two about the Prime Minister.

David Cameron and I have very many political disagreements - not least over the conduct of this referendum.

But - as I am learning every single day - leadership is not easy. David has been the Prime Minister of the UK for six years. It is a tough job and, whatever our disagreements, he deserves our thanks for his service. I wish him and his family well for the future.


http://www.snp.org/statement_on_euref_result_and_it_s_implications_for_scotland
 

wrowa

Member
You have to pay your respect to the Brits that they potentially destroyed both the United Kingdom and the EU with just a single referendum.

Really makes you wonder how this day will be remembered in the history books.
 

Anung

Un Rama
You have to pay your respect to the Brits that they potentially destroyed both the United Kingdom and the EU with just a single referendum.

Really makes you wonder how this day will be remembered in the history books.

The history books weren't going to look to fondly on Cameron anyway but now? shiiietttt.
 
I live in Scotland. If there is another vote then we are definitely going to vote for independence. It's only a matter of when not if.

I think we should at least wait to see how the UK leaving pans out before calling a referendum. We will likely have to have a physical border between the two countries so we should definitely see how that works out in Ireland beforehand. I'm angry about this result no doubt but we should not be making a knee jerk reaction and make a bad situation worse.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
So the vote will happen before the UK exits the UK. So within the next 2 years then.
 

Tenebrous

Member
Never liked the idea of a second referendum for Scotland, but in this case, it's almost definitely needed. They'll host, and they'll win their independence from us... Lord knows if NI will follow or not, but Scotland, to me, is as good as gone.
 
I live in Scotland. If there is another vote then we are definitely going to vote for independence. It's only a matter of when not if.


Yep my entire social circle was in the No camp, mostly due to me sadly, I fucked up, that is changing completely, my phone hasn't stopped ringing and people are very angry. It's the England always telling us what to do part thats pissing folk off and the lies used to protect the Union regarding Europe, telling us you vote for indy you lose EU, what a disgraceful outcome, it's a big gamechanger.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Yep my entire social circle was in the No camp, mostly due to me sadly, I fucked up, that is changing completely, my phone hasn't stopped ringing and people are very angry. It's the England always telling us what to do part thats pissing folk off and the lies used to protect the Union regarding Europe, telling us you vote for indy you lose EU, what a disgraceful outcome, it's a big gamechanger.

Yep. I've spoken to quite a few folks on this who voted no and they have changed their minds. It's a done deal at this point. The only question is the timing.
 

theaface

Member
I'd hate to see Scotland go, but I'd have a damn hard time trying to convince them of good enough reasons why they shouldn't. Such a dark day for the UK.
 
I voted Yes the last time and I absolutely will do so again. By the sounds of it I may even be able to convince my no voting parents.
 
Count me as an unapologetic NO voter in the last Independence referendum based on 3 things:-

1. Insecurity regarding EU status in the event of a YES vote
2. Campaign based on retaining the Pound and the Monarchy did not sit well with me
3. No Plan B on Currency

Number 1 is off the table and this in itself would push me to vote YES next time round.

It remains to be seen how my other two issues will be addressed (Euro? i'd be ok with that), but the economic impact of number one was the prime factor.

And there are MANY like me that had the same view.
 

Hedrush

Member
I'm voting for independence this time around.

So Scotland will become a independent country and have to negotiate entry into the EU. That would mean that Scotland would have to adopt the Euro.

Fun times.

I voted for stay in the UK during the last referendum. If there is another referendum then I'll be voting for independence this time also. If we win independence I guess we would need to adopt the Euro, there's no way we could use the pound after that.

Fun times indeed.
 
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