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NieR: Automata |OT| "I wouldn't expect too much from this game if I were you."

A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
Spirit of Jazz said:
I just feel it makes some elements of the game needlessly convoluted though I suppose a lot of it comes down to me not really liking how technology means magic because the themes could be told without it where as they were key components of the original Nier. For example (endgame spoilers)
I don't think Emil's needed in the story at all. It makes sense that he's a super weapon given that's what he was in Nier but it muddies things when it could have just been war between machines/aliens battling androids/humans. A lot of the more supernatural elements detract from the themes for me, I think the clearest example of it is in the desert building when you witness the machines desperately trying to procreate and it's weird, unsettling, and makes sense as the plot unfolds. Then you have Adam magic himself into existence and it just feels weird for the sake of being weird. It even comes down down to things like the need for YorHa black boxes to be machine core in order to establish that their motivation/failures are the same, which just came across as over-explaining the similar nature of their AI to me and it doesn't mean much when they don't really establish how the other androids AI are different.

Given the nature of how the stories told though there's every chance some things just flew over my head.
Click to expand...


To be fair I honestly feel like
emil's involvement is pretty superfluous to the game and is really meant to be there for the nier fans, but his arc is pretty removed. The implications it has for the world is pretty cool but ultimately removed from the main narrative.

As for the other one
I don't think it's meant to be a magical element, I think it's meant more to show how much the androids, programmed by humanity, devalued what machines are as a being. It does work as a way to question what truly separates an android and a machine in the end, but also shows how similar beings can dehumanise (a real fucking weird word for this, but you get what I mean. :p) each other..

edit: ooh you added a bunch after I quoted.

Regarding Adam
I also think it's a whole bunch a metaphorical bullshit yoko taro came up with and while I like and get it, giving a realistic take would probably make it easier to swallow given that the game does try for a harder sci-fi edge than OG nier. Still, there's a lot of shit in this game that does go for a more metaphorical perspective.
 
S

Spirit of Jazz

Banned
Antiwhippy said:
To be fair I honestly feel like
emil's involvement is pretty superfluous to the game and is really meant to be there for the nier fans, but his arc is pretty removed. The implications it has for the world is pretty cool but ultimately removed from the main narrative.

As for the other one
I don't think it's meant to be a magical element, I think it's meant more to show how much the androids, programmed by humanity, devalued what machines are as a being. It does work as a way to question what truly separates an android and a machine in the end, but also shows how similar beings can dehumanise (a real fucking weird word for this, but you get what I mean. :p) each other..
Click to expand...

I get what you're saying, they just feel like superfluous elements to me when the game goes out of it's way to make you connect the dots yourself in it's storytelling. I think the questions you bring up remain even without it.
 
A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
Hmm i don't feel like the 2nd part is superfluous though,
I think it plays a very important part in 9s's characterisation. While he was showing growing curiosity to the way different machines behave (which i think might be a deliberate thing seeing that he is a scanner type), ultimately he is unable to see machines as anything but the other, and that became even moreso when his breakdown happen. So showing that deep down he and the people he loves are no different from the enemy he is programmed to hate, and the only thing really separating them is the pretty Android skin they wear, ultimately breaks him down further more.

It's just another layer put into the meaninglessness of the war, but it's one i think tied pretty closely to 9s attitude to the machines.
 
J

jett

D-Member
I just realized I gave away 50K during one sidequest on route A, but never completed the rest.

Did I just fucking lose 50k for nothing.
 
killatopak

killatopak

Gold Member
jett said:
I just realized I gave away 50K during one sidequest on route A, but never completed the rest.

Did I just fucking lose 50k for nothing.
Click to expand...

I was drowning in money on route B. No worries. If you're playing on normal, you can make a mob build where there's max drop rate. You'd be swimming in machine cores.
 
M

Moreche

Member
I purchased the game from PSN because of Gaf and I'm loving it. The way it jumps from one play style to another is so fun but I feel the story won't impact me as much as it has others.
Unfortunately I've been hit with the lastest patch bug which I really hope they fix.
But so glad I bought this.
 
H

Hektor

Member
TheDarkLD now has a patreon
https://www.patreon.com/thedarkid

I'd consider tipping him for what he did with Drakengard, but i don't see a reason to throw im >12$ a year personally

Remembrance said:
That was deliberate, wasn't it?

Putting them in the same area just before the point of no return.

And you just assume you need to proceed to some other new area for the next step...
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be surprised it is. Most people got hit by that hehe
 
H

Hektor

Member
KO Traveling Hobo said:
Hm. I've never used patreon before. Is it possible to make a one-time donation, or does it have to be a subscription?
Click to expand...

It's a subscription, tho you can cancel anytime. If you'd want to tip precisely 3$ for example you'd have to take a 1$ subscription and leave that running for 3 months basically.
 
F

Ferrio

Banned
jett said:
I know about the first, but I can't say I understand what is it good for. :p

Don't know what pod throw is, I have to press jump+shoot at the same time? Guess I'll try it out, thanks.
Click to expand...

You can also use your launcher to traverse terrain too since it gives you more height than a regular jump.

Launcher is jump->heavy attack unless
you're 9S then it's jump->light
 
B

BumRush

Member
Finished Route A last night.

Definitely enjoying the game but I think the hype in here hurt the experience a bit. I'll continue for sure though.
 
K

KO Traveling Hobo

Member
Antiwhippy said:
Does it? I didn't really know much of nier lore before playing automata though I'm pretty familiar with drakengard, and coming away from it i feel like the ties are tangible but not exactly necessary for the overall theme.

If anything reading impressions here it feels like some people who played nier beforehand had some baggage of expectations to what it should be?

Like the world of automata works incredibly well for what it's trying to convey but people prefer the cozy nature of the original.
Click to expand...

When I use the word "cozy", it might not be in the way you think. For example, the Aerie and the Junk Heap were both very stark locations, but they were still cozy. It's not a very helpful way to describe the design, I suppose, but it's the most accurate word to describe the feeling that the overall world created.

Getting into Automata spoiler territory here:
I think some of it has to do with how well the environments fit with the characters and the premise in Nier. In Automata, we're to believe that Earth has been at war with the aliens and machines for ten thousand years, and yet it feels more like the Earth hasn't been touched since before the original Nier took place. Everything looks like it's just naturally degrading.

The only places we really see remnants of conflict are the piles upon piles of android corpses outside of Adam and Eve's boss chambers. And yet, of all places, this is where it makes the least sense because 9S specifically comments at one point that he and 2B are the only YoRHa units operating in the area, and they are continually surprised by the existence/evolution of Adam and Eve.
 
A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
KO Traveling Hobo said:
When I use the word "cozy", it might not be in the way you think. For example, the Aerie and the Junk Heap were both very stark locations, but they were still cozy. It's not a very helpful way to describe the design, I suppose, but it's the most accurate word to describe the feeling that the overall world created.

Getting into Automata spoiler territory here:
I think some of it has to do with how well the environments fit with the characters and the premise in Nier. In Automata, we're to believe that Earth has been at war with the aliens and machines for ten thousand years, and yet it feels more like the Earth hasn't been touched since before the original Nier took place. Everything looks like it's just naturally degrading.

The only places we really see remnants of conflict are the piles upon piles of android corpses outside of Adam and Eve's boss chambers. And yet, of all places, this is where it makes the least sense because 9S specifically comments at one point that he and 2B are the only YoRHa units operating in the area, and they are continually surprised by the existence/evolution of Adam and Eve.
Click to expand...

I think that speaks more about how weirdly fractured the machines are starting to get.
I mean even the resistance is trading with Pascal, and 2 major factions of robots just wanted to fuck off in their own part of the world and do their own thing. I think those 3 areas are meant to show that the war is not as it seems from atop the bunker.

Also the Android corpses don't necessarily have to be fresh. 2a and 9s were freshly deployed also. I also think it's natural to be surprised at Adam and Eve. They're unlike any other machine after all and is meant to show where the machine consciousness is at in their part of their own evolution.
 
K

KO Traveling Hobo

Member
Antiwhippy said:
I think that speaks more about how weirdly fractured the machines are starting to get.
I mean even the resistance is trading with Pascal, and 2 major factions of robots just wanted to fuck off in their own part of the world and do their own thing. I think those 3 areas are meant to show that the war is not as it seems from atop the bunker.

Also the Android corpses don't necessarily have to be fresh. 2a and 9s were freshly deployed also. I also think it's natural to be surprised at Adam and Eve. They're unlike any other machine after all and is meant to show where the machine consciousness is at in their part of their own evolution.
Click to expand...
That doesn't really explain
how relatively untouched everything is. Even though some machines have opted out of the conflict, there should still be scars left from thousands of years of war between armies of ultra hitech bioweapons.

That's not to say that the Amusement Park or the cities are inherently a problem. I'm not saying that the planet should be glassed. But given the premise and the thematic importance of being locked in a seemingly endless cycle of conflict, that conflict should have a presence in the environment.

And what I meant with Adam and Eve is that YoRHa seems to have no intel on them or the Copied City despite losing a hundred of their own troops to them.
 
A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
KO Traveling Hobo said:
That doesn't really explain
how relatively untouched everything is. Even though some machines have opted out of the conflict, there should still be scars left from thousands of years of war between armies of ultra hitech bioweapons.

That's not to say that the Amusement Park or the cities are inherently a problem. I'm not saying that the planet should be glassed. But given the premise and the thematic importance of being locked in a seemingly endless cycle of conflict, that conflict should have a presence in the environment.

And what I meant with Adam and Eve is that YoRHa seems to have no intel on them or the Copied City despite losing a hundred of their own troops to them.
Click to expand...

I mean realistically even the concrete should have been reduced to dust after that amount of years, but hey. :p I think I've heard a theory that the city ruins were lived in and maintained by androids until they got vacated by machines recently but it's not supported by anything in game.

I mean, one of the missions have us defending the ship coming from somewhere. Who knows what's going on in other parts of the world other than this weird microcosm where apparently there's a desert, a forest with a castle, and an amusement park all within walking distance.

I thought in the copied city it was implied that the androids were dragged there just to unsettle 2B? It doesn't necessarily mean that they are killed in the copied city.
 
A

Akainu

Member
Weird design decision to have someone who can run in six inch heels with no problem to stumble over crap.

So I decide to go back to the area where you fight birthbot only to get blindsided by screaming robot awesome.
 
K

KO Traveling Hobo

Member
Antiwhippy said:
I mean realistically even the concrete should have been reduced to dust after that amount of years, but hey. :p I think I've heard a theory that the city ruins were lived in and maintained by androids until they got vacated by machines recently but it's not supported by anything in game.

I mean, one of the missions have us defending the ship coming from somewhere. Who knows what's going on in other parts of the world other than this weird microcosm where apparently there's a desert, a forest with a castle, and an amusement park all within walking distance.

I thought in the copied city it was implied that the androids were dragged there just to unsettle 2B? It doesn't necessarily mean that they are killed in the copied city.
Click to expand...
That's an interesting take on
the corpses of the androids in the Copied City, given how Adam does make a point of fucking with 9S. Fair point. Even so, it calls into question where he got all those corpses from. Again, there are so few traces of conflict, that it's hard to imagine there were ever enough YoRHa troops running around to amass that body count. This normally wouldn't bother me at all, because it's an effective emotional trigger with solid character motivation, but it ties into bigger problems.

I don't buy that theory on the city ruins, since everything is empty and being reclaimed by nature. And the point about the ship actually reinforces my point: there is a war being fought with full fleets of ships and huge fuck-off missiles. Shit should be pretty fucked up.

To clarify, I'm not the type to flip out over "muh realism", and it conjures up a very strong, consistent atmosphere that complements certain parts of the game. It's just the way it also needlessly clashes with such important parts of the setting and themes that bugs me.
 
A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
True, i don't particularly buy that reason as to why the environments have very little battle scars, more to illustrate that we don't really know what's happening in this area. We're sent down presumably to sort the resistance in their war effort, but we instead land into an area that is occupied mainly by machines, most of the machines don't even really seem to want to be part of the war really, and the resistance don't even seen that interested in fighting them. Things aren't how they seem.

Also we don't know if Adam killed them all. For all we know adam is just the latest iteration from the machine consciousness. I don't even think it's implied that he killed them? They are android bodies so they don't degrade that quickly, and as we've seen with the black box file they are ultimately considered disposable.
 
killatopak

killatopak

Gold Member
the android's core are made with machine cores. Given how advanced they are, there's no stopping the machine consciousness from making their own androids.
 
D

Dragon1893

Member
The Gathering Mementos sidequest still appears under active quests even though I've done everything. The NPC isn't saying anything new. Can anyone tell me what I'm missing?
 
killatopak

killatopak

Gold Member
Dragon1893 said:
The Gathering Mementos sidequest still appears under active quests even though I've done everything. The NPC isn't saying anything new. Can anyone tell me what I'm missing?
Click to expand...

you'd have to finish the quest where you find flowers for emil. The next step of the quest would be you going the shopping mall and using the key emil gave you to go down the elavator. That where the final part of the quest is.
 
D

Dragon1893

Member
killatopak said:
you'd have to finish the quest where you find flowers for emil. The next step of the quest would be you going the shopping mall and using the key emil gave you to go down the elavator. That where the final part of the quest is.
Click to expand...

Haven't reached that part yet. Thanks.
 
B

Baalzebup

Member
killatopak said:
the android's core are made with machine cores. Given how advanced they are, there's no stopping the machine consciousness from making their own androids.
Click to expand...
I mean, they more or less already did that. [Late route C spoilers, I guess]
Adam and Eve are very much their versions of the most advanced YoRHa models. They have blood-like internal fluids, a layer that very much at least looks like skin etc and all the various individualistic machines show that they can create beings with very humanlike egos.
 
killatopak

killatopak

Gold Member
Dragon1893 said:
Haven't reached that part yet. Thanks.
Click to expand...

It'd actually a quest restricted to route a and b. Probably. So if you don't have chapter select yet, you'd have to do over the quest. I think. Lol

Baalzebup said:
I mean, they more or less already did that. [Late route C spoilers, I guess]
Adam and Eve are very much their versions of the most advanced YoRHa models. They have blood-like internal fluids, a layer that very much at least looks like skin etc and all the various individualistic machines show that they can create beings with very humanlike egos.
Click to expand...
That's true. I just pointed it out as a response to show the possibility of where adam might have gotten the adroid bodies in the copied city from.
 
M

Menome

Member
So, I started on Route C yesterday and realised I accidentally went through all of Route B without Pod Programs. Didn't realise they were auto-unequipped at the start and figured 9S just couldn't use them because he's not a combat model.

It was only when I went to use them again in Route C that I realised my mistake.
 
G

Golnei

Member
Ferr986 said:
Random thought, I really dislike the credits theme. It's nothing compared to Ashes in Dreams IMO. I dunno, it's pretty bland sounding, like a random FF vocal track.

Meanwhile this one destroys me everytime I hear it lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EFAtLADokQ
Click to expand...
It works well for what ending E's going for, but it doesn't fit the rest of the game that well - I wonder if that was the intention. For the whole game, it feels kind of off, and then you realise why the song was written that way.
I do agree that it's not much of a highlight among the rest of the soundtrack on its own merits, though.

edit: Maybe that should be spoilered to be safe.
 
T

TheHolyTurnip

Member
So I just lost a 47 hour save file from a bug n the Steam version. It seems if you let someone else play the game through family share on your PC the game doesn't read the file for the person who first played the game. Anyone know if there's a fix or workaround to get the game to read the lost save?
 
F

Ferr986

Member
Golnei said:
It works well for what ending E's going for, but it doesn't fit the rest of the game that well - I wonder if that was the intention. For the whole game, it feels kind of off, and then you realise why the song was written that way.
I do agree that it's not much of a highlight among the rest of the soundtrack on its own merits, though.

edit: Maybe that should be spoilered to be safe.
Click to expand...

hmm, you know, I think you're right with that
it does work well when you get the help of other player's save and the chant starts.

I guess it's just that it doesn't hold up as a single track when listening to the OST.
 
H

His Majesty

Banned
I think I'm done with the game, route C. I just started playing as
A2
but I am not really feeling very compelled to move forward. While I like the characters the combat is just not for me, much too simple and weightless and there are too many frustrating moments in the game for me to fully enjoy it right now.

Also saving bugs setting back my progress is pissing me off.
 
D

Dragon1893

Member
Just did the boss fight in the desert on route C with
A2.
Is it me or is
Berserk Mode useless? It drains health insanely fast, in such a hectic fight all it did was getting me killed.
 
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