This, I'm sure Sony cant be that stupid! If I can't ill never buy a game from PSN again, ever.
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Nikkei: PS4 to utilize Gaikai, have expanded social features, and no "Cell" chip
- Thread starter Soriku
- Start date
This, I'm sure Sony cant be that stupid! If I can't ill never buy a game from PSN again, ever.
Pretty sure you can't have one BC while the other is not. It'll either be full BC or not at all.
SkylineRKR
Member
I really don't give a shit about BC, I almost never used it on PS2 and this time I'll just keep my Ps3. The most essential games will probably see a remaster anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if Uncharted Trilogy 1080p/60fps hits the Ps4 at some point. As for Gaikai, thats an option as well.
It's nice to see someone sane when it comes to the European pricing. Everyone seems to forget all the variables which ends up being the final price, for whatever reason.
HoodWinked
Gold Member
i dont see how BC would even be possible the architectures differ way too much and the clock speeds of this gens consoles way too fast.
It's just PS3 software. There is no distinction between PSN software and PS3 software.
How would it work on PS4 if the supporting hardware isn't there?
mysteriousmage09
Member
No Cell in the PS4.
phosphor112
Banned
It's their design, not mine, they already know. Maybe they don't want to invest in it even if it is cheap, because cheap is still money.
Aquamarine
Member
People get really excited by the promise of fancy graphics, new IPs, and new features.
All of the things which come with new console tech.
No Cell tech in the PS3 from the outset will allow them to slim down the PS4's form factor / bring the price down much more easily. Sony is most likely going to repeat their "You can still buy a PS3 if you want PS3 games, lolol" strategy that they started using around 2008 last gen.
StealthGoblin
Banned
I'm not a technical person, but will the PS4 be able to do decent PS2 emulation properly based on what we know? Ideally I'd want it to do:
PSX
PS2
PSP
PS3 doesn't look like its happening which is a shame. I've got hundreds of PSN and PS3 games.
PSX
PS2
PSP
PS3 doesn't look like its happening which is a shame. I've got hundreds of PSN and PS3 games.
If they dont have a strong launch lineup, then they need BC to hold us over like it did with the PS3. If the launch lineup is great, then Im fine with no BC as Ill be too busy playing the new titles like Uncharted 4, LittleBigPlanet 3, The Last Guardian, and Metal Gear Solid: Ground Zeroes: Next Gen Edition: Revengeance.
Aquamarine
Member
I'm not a technical person, but will the PS4 be able to do decent PS2 emulation properly based on what we know? Ideally I'd want it to do:
PSX
PS2
PSP
PS3 doesn't look like its happening which is a shame. I've got hundreds of PSN and PS3 games.
Well interestingly enough, Sony achieved software PS2 emulation on the PS3...USING PS2 HARDWARE. I would like to think that Sony has been working on a nice software-only emulator (the PS4 would be able to emulate the PS2 / PSP flawlessly), but I really don't know where Sony's priorities lie at the moment.
I have a sinking feeling that we just might see native PS1 emulation on the system and nothing else.
After the early PS3 models, no PS3s had any PS2 hardware.
The PS2 Classics, I think, run on an emulator. Which is purely software, obviously, since it has to work on all PS3s.
If it's fully functional, but performance limited on PS3 and so can only run certain games acceptably, PS4 might be able to offer enough performance with that emulator to cover the whole catalog more or less. Hopefully.
rainking187
Member
I just find it hard to believe there won't be PS3 BC. When I got my PS3 I played primarily PS2 games for the first couple of years. It would have to have one hell of a library and a very low price for me to pick a PS4 up within the first 2 or 3 years of the consoles launch if it didn't have BC.
Aquamarine
Member
Every BC-capable PS3 model had some kind of PS2 tech in it.
You're absolutely right—the PS2 classics are 100% software emulated—but Sony has also optimized the emulation for every release.
Writing a general-purpose, PS2 emulator that could flawlessly run the 12,000+ PS2 games floating around in existence purely on code...that's a bit harder.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
I have committed to keeping my ps3 and x360 because I fully expect BC to be missing from this next generation. My only thought is if the PS4 will act like a pseudo AV receiver and allow you to pass-through PS3 audio/video via one of the HDMI inputs rumored to be on the PS4.
HoodWinked
Gold Member
PS3 doesn't look like its happening which is a shame. I've got hundreds of PSN and PS3 games.
hmm if there only were a simple solution to be able to play your psn/ps3 games...
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Yeah, feel the same way. This generation was very different from previous ones and Sony is going to want to sell PS3s for a long, long time. Unless the PS4 was another $600 all-inclusive monster machine, there's no room in the asking price to include coverage for a previous-gen system that will still be retailing for a couple hundred bucks.
If people want to play PS3 games, they should own a PS3. Less convenient for sure, but that's just how it is gonna be.
I don't want to keep PS3 when the next gen arrives. I want to free that HDMI slot and get some cash for PS4 from putting PS3 and most of the games to ebay. But I don't want to lose ability to play Demon's Souls.
AuthenticM
Member
Is it reasonable to expect a more expensive SKU with the console having a Cell chip for hardware compatibility ? Some people would buy that so there is money to be made there.
I don't think so. That kind of difference in HW-level and support on software side adds complexity that is not easily feasible for reasonable price.
phosphor112
Banned
There are a couple things that still bother me. We know Sony is working on a 22nm fab SOI, which would be perfect for implementing into the APU. I made this post late last month:
The ability to use the current RAM, the current GPU, and the current APU to just implement these 22nm fab units is already there, and maybe it's just cost holding them back, or maybe they just wanted to wait until final silicon is available to implement this.
I still think BC is going to be in, in some way or form. Whether it is just those "compute units" that are SIMD balanced emulating the cell, or this cell chip itself, there is money to be made with that investment.
They can make a PS2 emulator that works perfectly on PS4. PS3 couldn't do it because it severely lacked in bandwidth compared to it.
phosphor112
Banned
Yep.
test_account
XP-39C²
Full retail games will probably be available. Probably some demos and trailers too.
phosphor112
Banned
An anemic list for a brand new console that has a digital store. They need to be competitive and offer as much as they can on the store. My thoughts.
phosphor112
Banned
You believed your own hype!
It's all there. Maybe the money isn't.
phosphor112
Banned
I doubt we'll get full tech specs on the 20th, probably most information, but certainly not all. They certainly have target specs in, and final silicon coming. Not sure if they'll talk about final silicon just yet.
Goldrusher
Member
Could it be a poorly translated "cross-game chat" ?
Betrayer of hope
Banned
It will be amazing and amusing to see kaz hira, jack tretton, andrew house and yoshida telling consumers that all their digital psn games and all their ps3 retail games will not carry over to the next generation playstation.
Which means if you want to play your hundreds of dollars worth of games you bought either from PSN or retail for the past 6 years you need to have a fully functional ps3 console. If it breaks just buy another one.
It's like telling people to keep their old pentium pcs if you want to play their old mp3 songs. Truly remarkable. Not just from folks at sony but those who see nothing wrong with this bullshit.
Which means if you want to play your hundreds of dollars worth of games you bought either from PSN or retail for the past 6 years you need to have a fully functional ps3 console. If it breaks just buy another one.
It's like telling people to keep their old pentium pcs if you want to play their old mp3 songs. Truly remarkable. Not just from folks at sony but those who see nothing wrong with this bullshit.
test_account
XP-39C²
Sure, i agree with that. The digital only stuff will most likely be quite scare at launch. I just quoted you since you had striked over "quite", which only left "empty", and i wanted to out that there would be content in the store at launch
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Uhh, not really. MP3 is a universal format. PS3 games are PS3 games, they are intended to run on a PS3. When you purchase a PS3 game there's no built-in guarantee it's going to work on a PS4, PS5, etc.
It's not over till it over, so who knows? Chin up is always the best philosophy. Except maybe possessing the ability to adapt to the latest rumours.
It was/is a sound argument, but contradictory, in my mind, to the perceived design philosophy of the rumoured ps4:
* Simplicity
* Price Concious
* off the shelf/semi custom.
I don't think it's as simple as chucking a cell in. It takes a lot of blood, guts and sweat to even get the cell into a SoC on it's own. As I was reminded earlier this week, this hasn't happened yet. To then ask engineers to incorporate it into next gen design is an added layer of difficulty I presume.
Betrayer of hope
Banned
There is nothing different from a ps3 psn game and a retail one except delievery mechanism.
They are all using ps3 hardware specs
Lagspike_exe
Member
I think there's a decent chance of Sony offering a $9.99/month unlimited PlayStation 3 gaming via Gaikai. That would be a good way to popularize the service while boosting revenue.
Why do you believe that a PSN game (marked as being a downloadable title for the PS3) will work on the PS4? Where did you form that expectation?
I wouldn't be surprised if they used Gaikai to stream something to you, but do you think that this was actually supposed to happen? If you bought the same game on disk for Box A, why do you assume it'll work on Box B?
badcrumble
Member
The PS2 classics use a wrapper, like WINE. This is why, in non-BC systems, the downloadable PS2 classic works but the disc doesn't.
plagiarize
Banned
on BC, does anyone know if the cores in the PS4 can run SPU code? Given that the system has 8 cores, if they can, then the PS4 in theory could do backwards compatibility. One core would emulate the PPU, the others would emulate the SPUs.
I don't know that the cores can do that, but it seems plausible with the 8 core design, no? obviously some work would need to be done to get around the GPU being different, but that shouldn't be any worse than Xbox to Xbox 360 BC. IE, it's doable.
Will it be done? Dunno. But I don't see any reason to rule it out yet, unless more tech savvy people can explain how the cpu cores can't emulate or run SPU code.
I don't know that the cores can do that, but it seems plausible with the 8 core design, no? obviously some work would need to be done to get around the GPU being different, but that shouldn't be any worse than Xbox to Xbox 360 BC. IE, it's doable.
Will it be done? Dunno. But I don't see any reason to rule it out yet, unless more tech savvy people can explain how the cpu cores can't emulate or run SPU code.
It's not over till it over, so who knows? Chin up is always the best philosophy. Except maybe possessing the ability to adapt to the latest rumours.
It was/is a sound argument, but contradictory, in my mind, to the perceived design philosophy of the rumoured ps4:
* Simplicity
* Price Concious
* off the shelf/semi custom.
I don't think it's as simple as chucking a cell in. It takes a lot of blood, guts and sweat to even get the cell into a SoC on it's own. As I was reminded earlier this week, this hasn't happened yet. To then ask engineers to incorporate it into next gen design is an added layer of difficulty I presume.
And cost! I'd bet a lot of people wouldn't be willing to fork over another 100+ on the console for BC; it'd put it at a price disadvantage.
Would you rather pay 499 for a non-BC console (a reasonable price for a next-gen console at launch), or 599 for one with BC? Remember what 599 did last time around?
If that really ends up happening, it'll really just make the entry for standardized console future more possible with Steambox showing Sony/MS how its done.
I think we'll get there eventually anyway. Open systems mostly always win in the end. Depending on how Steambox does, next-gen just might be the final closed-box generation of consoles.
Why would no Cell = no digital BC?
I would be very surprised if they didn't at least do what they did with the PSVita, which if it happens, I better start playing the shit out of all my disc based games.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
No BC means no BC, it doesn't matter if the game is on disc of DD. Why are people hung up thinking DD games are different?
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