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[AgentP]

Clay Davis is a consumer and should vote with his wallet. Sony does their research via surveys and know a certain percentage of buyers will be lost. They weigh this versus the cost of BC, they know the risk and rewards.

Everyone would love 100% BC, but Sony knows only a small percent of people actually use it.

 

[Durante]

on BC, does anyone know if the cores in the PS4 can run SPU code? Given that the system has 8 cores, if they can, then the PS4 in theory could do backwards compatibility. One core would emulate the PPU, the others would emulate the SPUs.

I don't know that the cores can do that, but it seems plausible with the 8 core design, no? obviously some work would need to be done to get around the GPU being different, but that shouldn't be any worse than Xbox to Xbox 360 BC. IE, it's doable.

Will it be done? Dunno. But I don't see any reason to rule it out yet, unless more tech savvy people can explain how the cpu cores can't emulate or run SPU code.

You don't emulate 7 3.2 GHz cores on 8 1.6 GHz cores with an entirely different architecture. Not happening. Perish the thought.

 

[soundahfekz]

it was more tongue in cheek than an insult. normally, I'd be happy to pay less for newer tech, but this time it's different. there are too many games I don't want to lose access to / want easy access to from my ps4. it's a convenience thing, but it's also about space, sockets.and not having to worry about where I'll get a new ps3 if my current one breaks down.

as I said, I don't mind them releasing a premium sku that offers bc and one that doesn't, so they can cater to everyone or I'll ever accept a bc dongle / accessory, but I do want bc.

there's literally no negotiation on this point for me. it really is as simple as offer bc or fuck off.

Yeah I don't know about all that, you're about ready to pop a vein it seems. PS4 isn't gonna have hardware bc, maybe software if you're lucky, but probably not even then. It's not feasible

 

[astroturfing]

Clay Davis is a consumer and should vote with his wallet. Sony does their research via surveys and know a certain percentage of buyers will be lost. They weigh this versus the cost of BC, they know the risk and rewards.

Everyone would love 100% BC, but Sony knows only a small percent of people actually use it.

but are they really just going to throw away all PSN content just like that? isn't that a huge loss? when we switch to PS4s no one will ever buy Journey again.. or Braid, or Limbo etc, or any of the full retail PS3 games released digitally... all those potential purchases are an acceptable loss? boggles my mind.

 

[AgentP]

but are they really just going to throw away all PSN content just like that? isn't that a huge loss? when we switch to PS4s no one will ever buy Journey again.. or Braid, or Limbo etc, or any of the full retail PS3 games released digitally... all those potential purchases are an acceptable loss? boggles my mind.

Well they could always just do a port. The less the game goes to the metal and uses the SPUs, they easier the port. If there is money to be made, they can re-release it. All it takes is enough new buyers to offset the port cost and all owners of the original get a PS4 version for free.

 

[Spinluck]

No PS3 BC. But that was to be expected, anyway.

Hoping MS doesn't follow this trend for the 360, but I'm not getting my hopes up either.

Looks like Nintendo is the only one who gives a shit now about small stuff like used games or BC from the previous gen. You know...INCONSEQUENTIAL stuff.

Not really that hard to emulate Wii games, lol.

 

[Betrayer of hope]

RIP my beautiful glossy fat with BC.... =[

My launch ps3 is starting to make weird noises. I am getting paranoid day by day.

What's worse is that sony will not fix a 60gb launch console. Instead they will you a gimped console also known as the slim.

 

[Spinluck]

Same. I don't own a PS3 and would rather spend $450 or something for PS4 with PS3 BC than $200 for PS3 (if they drop the price) and $400 for PS4 unless I wait for a price drop. Does not have to be the only SKU, and they could just do an add-on as an option instead.

If Sony has minimal BC then I'll just cave and get a PS3 :/ Not like there'll be many games I want for at least a year or two. Which is why I'd like to be playing PS3 games on PS4 in the meantime.

Why not just get a PS3 now? It's literally the best time to own one?

At the moment you don't even have a library that you'd lose if they didn't have BC. Lol.

 

[onQ123]

You don't emulate 7 3.2 GHz cores on 8 1.6 GHz cores with an entirely different architecture. Not happening. Perish the thought.

but what about emulating 150 GFLOPS of computing power of the 6 SPE's with 400 GFLOPS of computing power of the 4 Compute Units?

 

[DBT85]

You don't emulate 7 3.2 GHz cores on 8 1.6 GHz cores with an entirely different architecture. Not happening. Perish the thought.

I thought the speculation was that if it was going to be done without specific hardware then the GPU would be getting all dressed up like the SPEs for the most part?

Something to do with what it is the SPEs on the Cell do being close to what the GPU does or something. It's all gobbleaduke

Spoiler

Anyone who gets that reference gets a cookie

to me.

but are they really just going to throw away all PSN content just like that? isn't that a huge loss? when we switch to PS4s no one will ever buy Journey again.. or Braid, or Limbo etc, or any of the full retail PS3 games released digitally... all those potential purchases are an acceptable loss? boggles my mind.

This is why so many feel there must be something in the PS4 to support the entire PSN library already available. Who knows.

 

[sd28821]

so no backwards compatibility the guess ill wait a few years more after launch or a slim remodel to get it then

 

[Spinluck]

I would pay up to 600 dollars for a LE ver thay did include Cell and full BC with PS3

The last time they did that, it did not work out too well. Even BC couldn't justify that price for most consumers.

I still think we'll see some sort/form of BC.

 

[phosphor112]

but what about emulating 150 GFLOPS of computing power of the 6 SPE's with 400 GFLOPS of computing power of the 4 Compute Units?

Emulation wouldn't be possible through that, only simulation because Cell exclusively uses 128 bit SIMD processes. Not only that but something would have to emulate the PPU, probably multiple jaguar cores to meet the clock speed of the PPU. It's also not directly attached to the CU's (only through the SOC) but it would add latency. We can get BC that way but it would be much slower.

 

[LowerLevel]

Wow, between this and the MS supposed rumor of no used games, this is strongly looking like the FIRST generation I don't get a launch system since the NES/Master System days... and even then I only waited for just under a year for the Master System. Feels kinda sad...

 

[subrock]

Cause it's an expectation most consumers have these days. Why does iPhone 3GS apps work on iPhone 5. Why do most of my software from Windows Vista work on Windows 8.

To be fair, apps that you buy today likely wont work of the iPhone in 7 years. The iPhone 3G was armv6 and we're up to armv7s now. That was just 5 years ago.

 

[Twilight Princess]

why is this bad news? were people really expecting backwards compatibility?

 

[Spinluck]

why is this bad news? were people really expecting backwards compatibility?

I expect some form of BC. I sure as hell didn't think they'd be a Cell in the PS4. Lol.

What I also don't get is the whining for next gen come because they're tired of this one, then people saying they're skipping it if it doesn't play current generation games. Your PS3 ain't going nowhere, and I don't think Sony is done supporting the console.

 

[artist]

If Orbis (or Durango) are $50 cheaper without BC, I'm all for it.

 

[Durante]

but what about emulating 150 GFLOPS of computing power of the 6 SPE's with 400 GFLOPS of computing power of the 4 Compute Units?

Doesn't work that way. It's hard enough to emulate something on an entirely different architecture when you have a large clock/performance advantage per core to work with. You can't parallelize the emulation of a single core.

 

[Zoe]

I should care about BC, but realistically I played 0 PS2 games once the new gen started, I expect the same this time around.

I was the same way (well, actually, I played both GoW's late), but I feel like it will be different this time around because of DD games. I still pick up Super Star Dust and PixelJunk games from time to time.

 

[Cyborg]

My launch ps3 is starting to make weird noises. I am getting paranoid day by day.

What's worse is that sony will not fix a 60gb launch console. Instead they will you a gimped console also known as the slim.

I bought a Slim PS3 just not to use my 60GB phat one even if I dont care about the BC...I just love de design of the first PS3.

 

[AZ Greg]

Here you go Clay Davis:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=8462&seq=1&format=2

Now you can keep everything hooked up!

 

[Jack_AG]

but are they really just going to throw away all PSN content just like that? isn't that a huge loss? when we switch to PS4s no one will ever buy Journey again.. or Braid, or Limbo etc, or any of the full retail PS3 games released digitally... all those potential purchases are an acceptable loss? boggles my mind.

Been saying this for weeks now. Too much content tied into PSN that will simply collect dust when PS4 hits.

What about first-time PS buyers? There is an entire backlog of content... that can never be accessed?

How about PS+? Where is the value for PS4? Surely there will not be tons of free content for download right away. It will take a LONG time to see regularly released stuff.

No BC is suicide. There's just too much money to be had in BC. Even if they threw Cell in without charging for it with a "premium" model - they can easily recoup the costs via PSN.

It is mind boggling for sure.

 

[Beerman462]

People asking for a separate sku with cell realize that just because the chip itself might cost $50 doesn't mean they can just throw one in their $399 model and charge $50 more right? They would have to R&D a whole new board to accommodate the cell.

 

[Zoe]

People asking for a separate sku with cell realize that just because the chip itself might cost $50 doesn't mean they can just throw one in their $399 model and charge $50 more right? They would have to R&D a whole new board to accommodate the cell.

How do you know they haven't done that already?

 

[Miutsu]

Sony just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in America where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over in Japan, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the japanese public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase the PS4, nor will they purchase any of the PSN Games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Sony has alienated an entire market with this move.

Sony, publicly apologize and add BC to the PS4 or you can kiss your business goodbye.

 

[kuYuri]

I just hope that the PS4 can easily do PS2 BC the same way the PS3 can easily do PS1 BC, as I still have a backlog of PS2 games to get through. The PS3 was for the most part the best PS2 and PS1 out there, so to speak. Upscales games, virtually unlimited memory card space which means not having to deal with memory cards, and a wireless Dual Shock.

The only PS3 BC that the PS4 really needs is for accessories. Let me use the same controller, cables, etc from my PS3 on the PS4.

 

[Soriku]

Why not just get a PS3 now? It's literally the best time to own one?

At the moment you don't even have a library that you'd lose if they didn't have BC. Lol.

...If there's no indication of BC with PS4 (or very minimal BC), I'll likely get one this summer. But it'd be more convenient to get a PS4, especially since I want a next gen console too, and playing PS3 games while the PS4 library grows would be excellent.

For now, I'll wait and see.

 

[krioto]

Sony just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in America where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over in Japan, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the japanese public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase the PS4, nor will they purchase any of the PSN Games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Sony has alienated an entire market with this move.

Sony, publicly apologize and add BC to the PS4 or you can kiss your business goodbye.

I must admit, I giggle a little every time this comes up.

As for BC - I have no need - I've got plenty of space under the TV!

 

[AstroNut325]

Never cared for BC. I just want next-gen games on next-gen platforms. I haven't touched any of my older systems.

 

[noobasuar]

why is this bad news? were people really expecting backwards compatibility?

I would damn well hope people expected all the money they poured into digital games on PSN to transfer over.

 

[Psychotext]

If there's no BC it'll be a good few years before I pick up a PS4. If there is, I'll likely sell the PS3 and grab one in the first few months.

I have a massive backlog which includes a ton of PS3 games, but I still want access to some of the new titles to play as a break from my slog through the endless backlog!

 

[Hydrogen Bluebird]

Sony just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in America where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over in Japan, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the japanese public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase the PS4, nor will they purchase any of the PSN Games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Sony has alienated an entire market with this move.

Sony, publicly apologize and add BC to the PS4 or you can kiss your business goodbye.

"shot in the foot" is probably the greatest GAF post of all time.

 

[ambientmystic]

Doesn't work that way. It's hard enough to emulate something on an entirely different architecture when you have a large clock/performance advantage per core to work with. You can't parallelize the emulation of a single core.

You don't emulate 7 3.2 GHz cores on 8 1.6 GHz cores with an entirely different architecture. Not happening. Perish the thought.

This man knows whats up. He works with and researches CPU architectures for a living AFAIK.

 

[Sanctuary]

Well we already knew there was no Cell chip but it doesn beg to question how will PS4 run BC for PS3 games and more importantly PSN games? Also, why is all of this info leaking from Japan all of a sudden!?



I didn't know giving opinions about a game was copying Miiverse. Somebody better get on the horn and tell Steam to take down their Community tab too.

Yeah, it's not like Sony or MS copied motion controls or anything.

Oh wait. The Valve comparison is irrelevant. PCs are not consoles.

 

[MarkusRJR]

If there's no BC it'll be near the end of the generation when I pick up a PS4. If there is, I'll likely sell the PS3 and grab one in the first few years.

I have a massive backlog which includes a ton of PS3 games, but I still want access to some of the new titles to play as a break from my slog through the endless backlog!

Altered to fit my view on the situation. While I would love one in the first few months I doubt a launch unit would last beyond the generation. New hardware tends to fuck up pretty fast.

 

[Domcorleone]

Yeah, it's not like Sony or MS copied motion controls or anything.

Oh wait. The Valve comparison is irrelevant. PCs are not consoles.

Have you heard of Live Area?

 

[Cake Boss]

Could care less about BC, other than GTA4 I see no games that I could be playing in the holidays and after that, plus I have a system that can play those games.

 

[Liamario]

I've invested way too much money on PSN games for them to be become locked to my PS3. There needs to be PS3 BC, even if it's only streaming.