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Nikkei: PS4 to utilize Gaikai, have expanded social features, and no "Cell" chip

S

Soriku

Junior Member
R10Neymarfan said:
I would happily pay $50-100 more for optional hardware BC. But it seems people would rather spend that money for cloud BC which will be worse.
Click to expand...

Same. I don't own a PS3 and would rather spend $450 or something for PS4 with PS3 BC than $200 for PS3 (if they drop the price) and $400 for PS4 unless I wait for a price drop. Does not have to be the only SKU, and they could just do an add-on as an option instead.

If Sony has minimal BC then I'll just cave and get a PS3 :/ Not like there'll be many games I want for at least a year or two. Which is why I'd like to be playing PS3 games on PS4 in the meantime.
 
R

Replicant

Member
metalslimer said:
Ok, then why in the world should anyone ever buy a Sony game digitally?
Click to expand...

Because they're still playable in the machine they're designed for? And realistically, how would anyone facilitate the ever-growing, ever-expanding game library from different generations? You'd require a machine that'd cost twice as much.
 
S

spwolf

Member
Jtrizzy said:
I missed that part, but still many, many people's speed is 2.0 mbps. That is sort of the baseline from what I've seen. Many DSL connections are only 1.0, which is fine for online gaming and surfing the net if you are the only one using the connection.

This will be for games that are 720p30 and under pretty much.
Click to expand...

well those people cant enjoy many other internet features like movie streaming via netflix, etc, etc.
 
K

kuroshiki

Member
I guess that means I have to buy back up PS3 when it becomes cheap.

Guys this is non-issue. Once PS4 comes out, PS3 price will drop fast. You can easily secure one for $149 or cheaper by next year.
 
M

metalslimer

Member
Replicant said:
Because they're still playable in the machine they're designed for? And realistically, how would anyone facilitate the ever-growing, ever-expanding game library from different generations? You'd require a machine that'd cost twice as much.
Click to expand...

It would be a nice building of trust to just have a one generation difference. I guess since PSN games use the exact same hardware it's not feasible to expect only PSN games to transfer, but still I won't be buying their digital games in the future.

Also now that I think about it, if Durango has BC and those people can just buy CoD and play with their friends on 360 that would be a huge deal.
 
U

Unknown One

Member
No BC was going to happen eventually due to switching over to a different architecture. Better now then never. Hopefully they find a way to at least emulate PSN games.
 
R

R10Neymarfan

Member
Is an extra $20-30 dollars for the cell that much of a hit? Especially if you used it as a physics processor or even to run an idle OS.

I mean the only difficult thing would be motherboard integration I guess.
 
A

Averon

Member
R10Neymarfan said:
Is an extra $20-30 dollars for the cell that much of a hit? Especially if you used it as a physics processor or even to run an idle OS.

I mean the only difficult thing would be motherboard integration I guess.
Click to expand...

When you're dealing with mass producing tens of millions of consoles, yes, that extra $20-$30 to the cost of manufacture will add up very quickly.
 
Y

Ydahs

Member
R10Neymarfan said:
Is an extra $20-30 dollars for the cell that much of a hit? Especially if you used it as a physics processor or even to run an idle OS.

I mean the only difficult thing would be motherboard integration I guess.
Click to expand...

$20 - $30 is a lot from a financial perspective, but I think another issue is trying to physically fit it all into the console itself. They probably don't have a lot of room to work with and don't want to make a console much larger than the PS3.
 
R

Replicant

Member
metalslimer said:
It would be a nice building of trust to just have a one generation difference. I guess since PSN games use the exact same hardware it's not feasible to expect only PSN games to transfer, but still I won't be buying their digital games in the future.

Also now that I think about it, if Durango has BC and those people can just buy CoD and play with their friends on 360 that would be a huge deal.
Click to expand...

The best scenario is for Sony to offer both BC and non-BC options. So those who want BC and those who don't want BC can choose. I think the problem here is that PS3 architecture was too different from PS4, which I understand is more closer to PC. Otherwise BC may have been easier. But as it is now, I'm just not willing to foot the bill for something that I know I won't use much.
 
T

toddhunter

Member
R10Neymarfan said:
Is an extra $20-30 dollars for the cell that much of a hit? Especially if you used it as a physics processor or even to run an idle OS.

I mean the only difficult thing would be motherboard integration I guess.
Click to expand...

Besides the extra R&D plus energy use, size limitations and whatever...times that $20-$30 by 70 million odd consoles and you have an issue.
 
J

Jtrizzy

Member
spwolf said:
well those people cant enjoy many other internet features like movie streaming via netflix, etc, etc.
Click to expand...

you can, it just takes longer to cache. You can't pause a game and let it buffer without ruining the experience. Watching nextflix or streaming a youtube video is perfectly fine on a 2.0 mbps connection. You many have to pause it once or twice for a 2 hr movie. I just moved from a place where my max was 2.0 and it's really not that bad, but streaming a game on the other hand. I just hope they can maintain some decent quality is all.
 
J

Jonboy

Member
Still think it would be awesome if they utilize Gaikai to stream PS4 games to the Vita. Basically have the Vita act as a Wii U controller.
 
N

Norml

Member
Ydahs said:
But if it follows the footsteps of Miiverse or Steam Communities then it'll be nothing like Home? The only thing they have in common is the fact that they're social.




Imgur compresses uploaded images, so it's not the best host to use in this case.

That article also proves what I've been saying. I can't imagine many here wanting a cloud based future anytime soon, since it's a step back in IQ and completely removes one out of the game once lag occurs or artifacts start appearing in detailed and fast moving scenes. Imagine playing Gran Turismo, enjoying the scenery as you're in first place only to have the connection hiccup, causing you to steering yourself straight into a wall. How about Uncharted? Running through the jungles on to have artifacts all over the place due to the amount of detail on the screen at any given time?

I dunno man, it's like having 'always on DRM' without the DRM.
Click to expand...

That is true,but the convenience would be great! Imagine going back to play an old PS3 game ,but it has massive updates you need first.
 
G

Game Guru

Member
spwolf said:
because it will be cheaper for you to play it over your PS3 than to pay extra for every ps4 to have backwards compatibility. I am not so sure that there is much different between PSN games and full PS3 games at all.
Click to expand...

You know what else would be cheaper? Playing my digital games on Android and PC. Why should I buy digital games for any of the systems if I can't play them forever and ever and ever?

I have bought only one digital game for consoles (TMNT Arcade right when it was about to be pulled off XBLA) outside of the Wii, and as I said before...

Game Guru said:
I am a damn sucker for Nintendo games.
Click to expand...

I however own tons and tons of games on Steam, GOG, and Desura because they are generally cheaper and will likely work on my PC so long as Microsoft doesn't kill the desktop for Metro.
 
S

Shinta

Banned
deadlast said:
copying miiverse ??
Click to expand...

kazining.gif
 
B

Baconsammy

Banned
metalslimer said:
Honestly why? If it starts off with no BC its not being added back later, so you will always have to keep the PS3 around.
Click to expand...

If one has it and the other doesn't, I go with the one that does at first. Unless of course they're both priced well and I can justify it. I simply have too many games, both digital and retail, on ps3 and 360 to ignore BC. And I have no desire to have more than 3 consoles attached to my TV at a time. Just a personal decision is all.
 
S

Shinta

Banned
badcrumble said:
If people honestly think Gaikai could take care of BC, I'd love to have some of what they're smoking.
Click to expand...

Theoretically it could take care of PS3 BC, and PS5 giving people games stronger than the PS4 system can do by itself at the end of its lifespan. Isn't that the whole point of cloud computing?

The big question mark is how they monetize it, how all the various publishers get their cut and if this is going to be appealing to consumers at all. I'd rather have physical BC, but I'm still kind of curious to see how they utilize Gaikai. They're going to use it for something. Timed trials, PS+, demos, BC? Who knows.
 
S

spwolf

Member
Game Guru said:
You know what else would be cheaper? Playing my digital games on Android and PC. Why should I buy digital games for any of the systems if I can't play them forever and ever and ever?
Click to expand...

my Android games look like shit on my Tab... yours dont? shitload of older games dont play above Win XP either. Thats on expensive devices that you paid 3x more than manufacturing price, while your consoles you got at subsidized price.

and unlike phone or laptop, you dont have to throw away your PS3 after few years.

i have a ton of PS3 games that I play, but at the same time, I am not going to throw my PS3 out of the window. It is very good media device that I will keep for years to come.
 
P

phosphor112

Banned
Shinta said:
Theoretically it could take care of PS3 BC, and PS5 giving people games stronger than the PS4 system can do by itself at the end of its lifespan. Isn't that the whole point of cloud computing?

The big question mark is how they monetize it, how all the various publishers get their cut and if this is going to be appealing to consumers at all. I'd rather have physical BC, but I'm still kind of curious to see how they utilize Gaikai. They're going to use it for something. Timed trials, PS+, demos? Who knows.
Click to expand...

That would end with PS3 server clusters around the world that are practically useless and outdated.
 
ULTROS!

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
So... Is digital game BC still possible?

I'm guessing PSone emulation (PSN) is going to be around though.
 
S

spannicus

Member
Its another Vita scenario. Sony will use Gaikai to stream ps3 games to the PS4. Every month they will add games to the service the same way they did the Vita with PSP games instead Gaikai will be getting ps3 games here and there. makes sense to me. mark my words it just smells like sony.
 
S

spwolf

Member
Shinta said:
Theoretically it could take care of PS3 BC, and PS5 giving people games stronger than the PS4 system can do by itself at the end of its lifespan. Isn't that the whole point of cloud computing?

The big question mark is how they monetize it, how all the various publishers get their cut and if this is going to be appealing to consumers at all. I'd rather have physical BC, but I'm still kind of curious to see how they utilize Gaikai. They're going to use it for something. Timed trials, PS+, demos? Who knows.
Click to expand...

i dont think PS3 BC through Gaikai is possible at all... not just because all of that - publishers, rights, cost of servers/bandwith/maintainance, etc, simply because it would require PS3 for every instance of game being played. Thats just too big of a cost to start with for a service that doesnt have a future.

I bet what they will do for Gaikai is PS4 games and remastered PS3 games as a service not to just PS4 owners but to PS3, Xperia, Vario, Bravia owners who dont want to buy PS4, just want to play games.

If I was Sony, I would build it into every TV that they sell, every Vaio, every Xperia... and they sell a lot of those things, a lot more than just their consoles.

They will probably "re-master" most popular PS3 games for PS4 though, add better textures, better resolution, basically make them perfect and sell them at reduced price and offer them via Gaikai.
 
yurinka

yurinka

Member
Regarding Gaikai, I wouldn't use it for BC. I think PS1 and PS2 can be emulated as they are done decently in a Pc. Gaiikai should stay for PS4 games and demos, streamed to PS4, or other devices like PS4 (where you'd be able to play them localy) or other platforms like PC or Vita. And to stay under PS+.

I'd use their patent to emulate by hardware PS3 chips instructions even if I think it may not be enough, but at least would be cool to detect the games you own and let you download these PS3 games recompiled for PS4 (like they did with PS2 PSN games but allowing to download for free the ones you already own at least from PSN). Or maybe they have optional BC for PS3 with an add-on as they also patented. The article says no Cell included, which doesn't mean that it lacks BC.

deadlast said:
copying miiverse ??
Click to expand...

The article says 'social feature where you can exchange opinions among your friends while playing games'. It can be Vita's Live area, in-game voice or text chat, Home, Twitter or web browser based forums.

All of them available in Sony platforms before miiverse was announced. But since it's a new generation, they would be evolved, maybe adding multitask due to having more memory.
 
P

pantsmith

Member
So, I'm wondering: could the PS4 be strong enough to sloppily/brute force PS3 emulation? Sort of like the limited xbox bc on the 360, where it did a bunch of the easier games, but not everything?

I'm sure they have the people who'd know how to do that, since they designed the PS3 architecture in the first place. Just wondering if the cell architecture is so complicated that its definitely impossible.
 
P

plutoknight

Member
RoboPlato said:
There's a patent for it but I wouldn't take that as any real evidence. Sony patents a ton of random crap that they never use. I hope that happens though. It would be a good solution.
Click to expand...

I would.....actually be okay with buying a BC dongle for an extra 50-100 bucks. I think that's a perfect solution -- it doesn't mark up the console to astronomical heights (OHHAIPS3 at launch!), and the people who care about it, which number many but not -enough-, can pay a premium to get it.

That would be uncharacteristically smart of Sony.
 
C

CorrisD

badchoiceboobies
It's not really unexpected at all, but that doesn't mean it isn't a shame, sure my PS3 isn't going anywhere but after getting a PS4 I would want to use it; and having a whole backlog from a previous generation ready to go, well, it would have been a plus to me.

I would be quite happy to buy a dongle if that patent of theirs comes to fruition in an actual accessory.
 
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