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Nintendo looking for Lead Graphic Engineer for Next-Gen Console SoC in Redmond

I'm just happy that you don't speak for the rest of us. Going by sales, the public has thankfully rejected the gamepad.

Stop trying to be quirky and get back to basics, Nintendo!
There's really nothing 'quirky' about the Gamepad. It's input is essentially the same as anything else, with the inherent advantages that two screens offer. It's as basic, un-quirky and reactive as you could possibly get.

Their failures lie with their marketing, messaging and the price:value equilibrium.
 
There's really nothing 'quirky' about the Gamepad. It's input is essentially the same as anything else, with the inherent advantages that two screens offer. It's as basic, un-quirky and reactive as you could possibly get.

Their failures lie with their marketing, messaging and the price:value equilibrium.

The Gamepad is an undesirable product for a major part of the market whatever way you try to paint it. Yes, for some people it might be the best thing ever, it dosn't change that fact. The best thing Nintendo can do is nuke that concept from earth and forget it happened at all.

Time to let it go.
 

StevieP

Banned
There is no bridge. There never was. There never will be. This isn't a land war. There are no troops.

Entrepreneurial software projects have one overriding goal: make money. Exposing product to as large a purchasing audience as possible, as cheaply as possible, is the primary concern. Companies don't care if it's Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, Apple, Valve, or anyone else.

Once upon a time when every console was a vastly different technological proposition, there was more pressure to "choose a platform." Nowadays, as technology becomes more standardized in the console space, you can see how prevalent multiplatform has become. There's still money to be made supporting a single platform, be it by garnering goodwill from the dedicated fans of that platform or through lucrative deals with platform holders, but multiplatform is the rule now, not the exception.

Hardware that is easy to port to is the problem, not corporate brands. Before Wii U was launched, every major developer showed interest, from EA to Activision and on. Reggie got up on stage and talked about how Wii U was going to change Nintendo's presence in western markets with western dev/pub support.

After the hardware was known, those devs/pubs dropped Wii U like a rock. They even laughed about it. But what they laughed about was how weak the hardware was, not the fact that it was Nintendo.

If software is cheap to port and there is any chance at a health profit, that software will be ported. To get there, however, Nintendo will need to rethink their hardware engineering approach and the quality of their development tools.

Ah yes, of course, the publishers are always right mentality. Rogue squadron wii (or almost anything wii outside Ubisoft and a couple years of tiger woods) would like to have a word with you.

Look through opiate's recent post history and find one that discusses how ms and sony have default support while every major publisher has had issues appealing beyond the young male market as of late. and I'm not just talking about nintendo consoles here (because really that ship has sailed). Every other market is poorly represented by many of the major publishers despite the fact that they're making big coin there. As per John Harker (paraphrased) power, architecture - none of these things really matter. They're at the bottom of the total pole in terms of issues. Nintendo could make a 900 dollar Intel based gaming PC, put it up for sale for 300, and these same issues would persist.
 

Renekton

Member
The Gamepad is an undesirable product for a major part of the market whatever way you try to paint it. Yes, for some people it might be the best thing ever, it dosn't change that fact. The best thing Nintendo can do is nuke that concept from earth and forget it happened at all.

Time to let it go.
Are there any statistics / market survey result on that?
 

Jburton

Banned
So next gen handheld in the works, for Nintendo a handheld / home console hybrid is the best option.

Buy game, version for handheld runs at lower graphical fidelity, plug handheld into powered dock and pick up controller and play higher res and graphical fidelity console version.
 
The Gamepad is an undesirable product for a major part of the market whatever way you try to paint it. Yes, for some people it might be the best thing ever, it dosn't change that fact. The best thing Nintendo can do is nuke that concept from earth and forget it happened at all.

Time to let it go.
This is akin to saying that the Kinect is the sole reason that the Xbox brand has struggled to maintain it's popularity, which is nonsense.

A multitude of reasons exist for why the platform has struggled. It's primary input device is the least of it's issues.
 

jblank83

Member
Ah yes, of course, the publishers are always right mentality. Rogue squadron wii (or almost anything wii outside Ubisoft and a couple years of tiger woods) would like to have a word with you.

wat


Nintendo could make a 900 dollar Intel based gaming PC, put it up for sale for 300, and these same issues would persist.

I'll agree to disagree with you.
 
So next gen handheld in the works, for Nintendo a handheld / home console hybrid is the best option.

Buy game, version for handheld runs at lower graphical fidelity, plug handheld into powered dock and pick up controller and play higher res and graphical fidelity console version.

That powered dock sounds extremely impractical. You're going to have serious latency issues if it's not going to have the components to offload the work from the handheld, and it's going to be too expensive to package with the handheld if it does. Not to mention that it doesn't fit with Nintendo's proposed strategy of the unified architecture anyway.
 

krizzx

Junior Member
Make it PS4 level power with a 720p gamepad in 2016.

A man can dream.

That would be stupid of Nintendo. Why would they make a next gen system on par with last gen hardware? Just having the power that is even debatebly close is getting the Wii U hammered to death in the gaming media. Then on top of that, why release a new console when the old one has yet to reach its peak? That would lead to distrust from people who own their current console and even those who don't.

This is more than likely for their next handheld.
 

AmFreak

Member
This is akin to saying that the Kinect is the sole reason that the Xbox brand has struggled to maintain it's popularity, which is nonsense.

Where did he say the gamepad is the sole reason that the WiiU is struggling?
What he said is that the gamepad (for the wide majority) is no reason to buy one.
 

Thoraxes

Member
I urge people to check out the Factor 5 IGN NVC podcast for some more tidbits on hardware development and Nintendo.

Really good and insightful stuff in there.
 

Dryk

Member
Low power doesn't worry me (yet) considering the current crop of GPUs

No worries. Nintendo harnesses disappointment and channels it into their developers to keep them looking young.
4c3.jpg
 
This is akin to saying that the Kinect is the sole reason that the Xbox brand has struggled to maintain it's popularity, which is nonsense.

A multitude of reasons exist for why the platform has struggled. It's primary input device is the least of it's issues.

The fact is Kinect was quite successful on 360, millions of those were sold, the problem was when it had the side effect of making the Xbox One more expensive that is major competitor, which already had quite an advantage in value (having a more powerful hardware) and image, Kinect was the faster way to eliminate that advantage and focus on the core gamers.

Of course the gamepad is not the sole reason, but I think is a major point why the console is not desirable, and I think the sales speaks by itself. GC had a lot of these reasons or worst reasons, behind their struggling and they were doing better. I think when a platform is struggling like the Wii U is doing, marketing dosn't explain the whole picture, it can't possibly be it, specially since is not "that" bad.

You might really like the gamepad, hell, I think the gamepad off screen option is great, but I also think that not many people will find it that amusing, rather the contrary in a world where bulky devices are dying and being replaced by slick designs.
 
Where did he say the gamepad is the sole reason that the WiiU is struggling?
What he said is that the gamepad (for the wide majority) is no reason to buy one.
Because Nintendo failed to build value in the utility of the Gamepad. Which lies more with their marketing and messaging than the device itself.
 

sörine

Banned
The Gamepad in incredibly conservative, it's practically tailored to core gamers. It really isn't quirky or innovative or fresh, which is exactly the problem with it compared to the Wiimote.
 
Because Nintendo failed to build value in the utility of the Gamepad. Which lies more with their marketing and messaging than the device itself.

Maybe there's not much inherent value in it, for starters.

What kind of value and utility can Nintendo add to the gamepad to make it desirable? Honestly all these new games built around the gamepad aren't really that hot to begin with.
 
While i completely agree that Nintendo is better off doing their own thing than following the actions of MS/Sony. BUT I would like to argue against the bold. I was working for a Major Western publisher when Nintendo first started talking about the WiiU. With what Nintendo TOLD us we were fully on board and had some serious plans. THEN the box and docs showed up... plans changed fast! We had been told it was more powerful than 360/Ps3 and shouldnt be too hard to port existing products would be easily ported over.... That was pretty much not true. So I would say there is always a chance if the right device/ecosystem was presented.

Well, he said "is dead." Present tense. You're talking about a few years back.

I agree, they could have at least had a chance at making inroads with the Western core market had they made very different choices with Wii U (hardware performance only being part of that, however), but it's far too late now.
 
Basically, I think the only chance for Nintendo to be profitable is to be Nintendo. Basically ? Being their own thing. Their own ecosystem. Their own library. There's no way they'll get multiplat AAA titles. That bridge is dead, and let's face it, never going to be build again.
I disagree. If it's x86 architecture and considerably more powerful than PS4 and XB1, it would get multiplats. They could almost brute force em on there. And if the thing starts selling well, they could optimize them and put out good ports.
"Selling well" could mean XB1 level or even less than XB1 level. It's not gonna take much. The Wii U was such a colossal bomb and the hardware such a joke that they doomed themselves.
 
sörine;135369427 said:
The Gamepad in incredibly conservative, it's practically tailored to core gamers. It really isn't quirky or innovative or fresh, which is exactly the problem with it compared to the Wiimote.

It's a conservative device that Nintendo seems to have convinced itself was forward-thinking and innovative, which makes it even worse.
 
They should incorporate the 'NES' part again.

Perfect or Power NES or something.

Then it could be called P NES

NESSIAH

The one console to save gaming

It's a conservative device that Nintendo seems to have convinced itself was forward-thinking and innovative, which makes it even worse.

IMO

I don't even think that Nintendo had a clear vision when they created the gamepad. Like they didn't exactly knew what they were trying to accomplish.
 

Gleethor

Member
A little from column A and a little from column B IMO.

I think publishers are above "burning bridges": even the likes of EA. If they believe that a manufacturer is buying in to a common vision, or offering them something they can exploit, and if they believe in the manufacturers ability to sell, they'll get their games licensed and continue to develop for them. It's that simple.

The problem for Nintendo is that they do not exist in a bubble. The Wii U is probably the most feature-packed and interesting console that Nintendo have ever developed, I bet there are tonnes of individual developers and artists who actually love the thing and want to see it do well.

It's Nintendo's history, prior form and the buying habits of their userbase that have the publishing houses feeling sketchy. Despite a wealth of evidence and sales successes, it's like they don't know how to sell to Nintendo's audience. When Nintendo gave them a casual audience with the Wii, there were some publishers who 'got it' and jumped on board with the likes of Just Dance etc. But in a normal gaming environment - they just don't know how to do it. Personally? I think its partly Nintendo's fault but also partly the publishers' fault. Again and again, they fail to recognise what the Nintendo audience finds interesting and fun. In my opinion, they should start by listening to what Nintendo say themselves. They say it in all of their investor relations material, and in every interview: they want to surprise and please people.

In 1995/6, with the market interjection of big media companies like Sony, there has been a schism in gaming - whereby narrative, story-based games and bombastic action games have flooded the market, driven the market and sold consoles. Influential, storied-franchises like Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil and Tomb Raider were born in the PlayStation era of gaming. Naturally, powerful media boxes that emphasise the sound and presentation of these games are more suited to the bleeding edge of that kind of content. When Microsoft joined the party and gave the world a successor to SegaNet (Xbox Live), online services began to gain more and more influence too - and this again, is an area that Nintendo has not traditionally dabbled in. Even now, while I would personally consider it an area that Nintendo has recently innovated in and shown great promise, their competitors benefit from all the wealth and experience of developers and publishers who have produced online content on PC for decades.

For N64, Gamecube and Wii, Nintendo have played catchup on all fronts. They have kept themselves afloat with a sound (and beautiful) philosophy of crafting everything they do around charm and fun. It works for them, but it doesn't work for their third party partners, who have grown accustomed to selling certain kinds of content. When it HAS been attractive to third parties, there has still been a wealth of bad-PR, and other roadblocks in the way. Purely due to bad planning really - hardware limitations, storage limitations etc.

I think to tackle Software buying habits, you have to tackle the content, and the nature of the software itself. Tackle the question: is this actually marketable to a Nintendo audience? If not, can that audience be changed over time? Is there anything Nintendo can do to help me?

Sony and Microsoft consoles play home to high-quality, gameplay-mechanic-focussed games every bit as much as Nintendo consoles, but in their eco-systems, third party games do not have to compete with Nintendo games. When a person walks in to Gamestop, they do understand that Uncharted is a Sony exclusive. They will understand that Forza and Halo are Microsoft exclusives. Only the hardest of the hardcore will appreciate the difference between a Naughty Dog and Sony Bend version of Uncharted. Only a few will know which Halo games came from Bungee, Ensemble Studios or 343 Industries. When a Nintendo console owner walks in to a store, they probably don't know the exact development teams involved either. But the distinctive Nintendo logo is like a seal of quality in and of itself. Their characters and brands are so friendly to all ages, and so powerful, that games sitting alongside them struggle for attention. They have been making console games since the 1980s, so their hardcore fans include a contingent who have been around just as long. Some of them are so old that they are rearing their own children on the Nintendo brand. Is it so radical to think that these people have been buying Nintendo consoles alongside PlayStations and Xboxes for the last 15-20 years because Nintendo actually offers something different? And if that is the case, what sense was there in the first place of trying to sell them the exact same games that are available elsewhere?

I don't believe there has EVER been a sound logic in throwing Watch_Dogs, Call of Duty, or FIFA on Nintendo consoles and expecting automatic sales. Dedicated versions with dedicated features might work, but late, feature-deficient versions? Historically, Star Wars, Disney, Sonic the Hedgehog, Rayman, arcade games, puzzlers, platformers and art games have all done well. That is the kind of thing that Nintendo and others have cultivated an audience for, so I'm often puzzled to not see more of that kind of activity. The recently revealed Rogue Squadron game for Wii would have been an incredibly easy sell, but for some reason (LucasArts?) it never materialised.

I might be projecting here, but I also suspect Nintendo fans are more market savvy than publishers give credit for. They are open to offerings on other consoles. Publishers might suspect they don't really know how to exploit the Nintendo audience properly, but maybe they already are - on other consoles! EA, Activision and others have certainly sold me games on 360/PS3 and Xbone that I would have otherwise bought on Nintendo consoles. Some fans just KNOW when a Nintendo version ISN'T the version to get.


The current trajectory of the Wii U probably leads a lot of people to err on the side of pessimism, but some of the things they have attempted - Miiverse, TVii, etc. - show a Nintendo wanting to embrace positive, unique, online services and change. Their more open development environment is resulting in a lot of indie content (good and bad). Maybe having a situation in which there are no mainline-AAA games bombing on the console might actually be a good thing. In the absence of huge failure stories on a struggling console, maybe we will be able to zone in on what DOES sell as opposed to what doesn't.

I personally feel like their fallout with EA has been hugely detrimental to the Wii U. The absence of EA games has been like a black-hole that has been sucking in other publishers. It may owe a lot to a difference in vision - we can also observe EAs relationship with Sony is a lot different to their current relationship with Microsoft (EA Access). I would love to know what truly happened between Nintendo and EA.

EA is still the biggest power-player in town, especially thanks to their partnership with Disney. If Nintendo want to succeed in creating a good environment for big third parties next time around, I think they need to extend an olive branch and acquiesce somewhat with EA. Following that, Disney and Warner Bros are hugely influential players who are both big enough (outside of videogames) that they do not need to curry favour with the console manufacturers. If there are interesting new deals and Western exclusive deals to be done, I would suggest they should try and do them there. Ubisoft and Activision seem Nintendo-friendly to me. They want to continue to do business, they just need to see the receipts so to speak.

So yeah, I'm not feeling doom and gloom at all. Building a new architecture that finally severs itself from the Gamecube/Gekko/Flipper lineage is the perfect time to renew what a Nintendo console is, and what a Nintendo console means. Its the perfect time to re-establish relationships and try to come up with some kind of new Nintendo revolution.

I like this post.
 

Zero²

Member
The Gamepad is an undesirable product for a major part of the market whatever way you try to paint it. Yes, for some people it might be the best thing ever, it dosn't change that fact. The best thing Nintendo can do is nuke that concept from earth and forget it happened at all.

Time to let it go.
As I think they will probably will, regardless if it was a success or not.
I mean look at the Motion Plus, used for HD Wii Sports and as a second controller for some games. Hardly close to the spotlight it had on the Wii days
 

rjinaz

Member
The Wii Z ?

Maybe they can get Lil Wayne to do the commercials to attract some dudebros. "Wii-Z F baby"

Cough cough, sorry my asthma is acting up, it's why I sound Wii Z. :p

I honestly hope they stay away from the Wii name entirely. Time to move on IMO.
 

NolbertoS

Member
I'm hyped. Can't wait to see the QOL philosophy in 2-3 years time. Nintendo seems to have realized that the market has shifted to the entertainment genre more than gaming genre. Hopefully there new unfied console + portable can be a homerun success.
 

Chmpocalypse

Blizzard
As far as naming is concerned, I honestly can see them going with wii2, just because the large audience knows what a wii is (and generally doesnt know what a wiiu is with its damaged brand) and because they are just stubborn enough to do theire own thing, as the past has proven, to think it may work as if wiiu never existed.
If that is a good idea remains to be seen, but dont count it out completely; many may see it as that wii with the remote successor from years past they had fun with.

They would obviously need to capture the gaming community, but honestly, I dont think those will give a shit about the name if more important aspects are ok to them, such as graphics, unified account, online, etc. My point is; dont count out the wii brand entirely as it may still prove valuable for people who made the wii a succes and have absolutely no awareness of there being a wiiu and its struggle.

As for new hardware, I think both the 3ds successor as the wiiu successor are at least 3 years further away from release. My thoughts are they wanna ride this one out, get every penny out of these systems that are left and wait a little longer for the technology to be there to realise theire vision, instead of "gambling" again. New hardware takes huge risks as you start over from scratch regarding installed base. (allthough rumours say they want to alleniate that problem).

That casual audience is long gone. Chasing after it would be pointless - that crowd does f2p on their phones and tablets, not paying $300+ machines for Nintendo's lineup. We saw that with the Wii (masses came for Wii sports, bought MK etc to have other games to play once WS lost its wow factor, then abandoned ship).
 

Chmpocalypse

Blizzard
Today everyone and their mother have a set-top box/microconsole, while the media capabilities are amazing the gaming front is still lacking, I think how Nintendo would fare if they released a 4DS TV. They totally have the games to attract the audience and even though it would lack an iTunes/Play Store/Kindle store, the ability to stream their own files and watch Netflix/Hulu and the likes would be good enough for some people. The main problems would be Nintendo making a more simple handheld (input wise), so it would not have game compatibility issues like the PSTV, and capable of outputting at least native 720p.

If their games still attracted an audience, the Wii U wouldn't be the failure it is. They need much more than just their own games.
 
They should incorporate the 'NES' part again.

Perfect or Power NES or something.

Then it could be called P NES

Ok I loled hard.

It will be interesting what path Nintendo decides to choose.

Also yes last Gen machines were so power hungry, I remember by the second year I think it was they disabled 2 of the 4 USB ports in the launch units via fw update. Launch PS3 heat levels were brutal and I'm really glad Sony is taking this more eco-friendly approach a la Nintendo with the PS4. One of the reasons I like revisions and always make the switch when the improvements are good, hoping PC in this regard grows exponentially within this 2 years I want to have a slim unit already.
 
Also yes last Gen machines were so power hungry, I remember by the second year I think it was they disabled 2 of the 4 USB ports in the launch units via fw update. Launch PS3 heat levels were brutal and I'm really glad Sony is taking this more eco-friendly approach a la Nintendo with the PS4. One of the reasons I like revisions and always make the switch when the improvements are good, hoping PC in this regard grows exponentially within this 2 years I want to have a slim unit already.

I can't remember the exact details off the top of my head but each new console revision last generation brought greater power efficiency which I guess is probably obvious. I am kind of curious though how later PS4 and XB1 revisions stack up power consumption-wise to later PS3/360 revisions. I think they'll get quite good in that vein tbh
 

Snakeyes

Member
If their games still attracted an audience, the Wii U wouldn't be the failure it is. They need much more than just their own games.

I think the Wii U is such an undesirable, convoluted and poorly positioned product that no amount of appealing software would drastically improve its sales. You could make GTA 6 and FFXV exclusive to it tomorrow and the system still wouldn't take off.
 
I think the Wii U is such an undesirable, convoluted and poorly positioned product that no amount of appealing software would drastically improve its sales. You could make GTA 6 and FFXV exclusive to it tomorrow and the system still wouldn't take off.

Whatever you say buddy.
 

Apt101

Member
If I was the architect I'd go all in. SoC from Nvidia. Aim for at least 1400 CUDA cores, 10 GB of RAM (so at least 7 would be usable), and a SSD. Use Nvidia's streaming tech to a 900p tablet-like controller with a K1 in it. 2016 for $500 because fuck it - go big, the Xbox One sold 1.2 million in a few months at that price. Oh a man can dream.
 

sörine

Banned
If their games still attracted an audience, the Wii U wouldn't be the failure it is. They need much more than just their own games.
3DS has done 45m+ on mostly the back of just Nintendo games. Nintendo's titles still have mainstream pull, potentially more than any other single publisher and certainly more than any other 1st party publisher (even the one that bought Minecraft). This isn't really what's holding Wii U back.
 
I think the Wii U is such an undesirable, convoluted and poorly positioned product that no amount of appealing software would drastically improve its sales. You could make GTA 6 and FFXV exclusive to it tomorrow and the system still wouldn't take off.

It's heaps good, but.
 
Hardware that is easy to port to is the problem, not corporate brands. Before Wii U was launched, every major developer showed interest, from EA to Activision and on. Reggie got up on stage and talked about how Wii U was going to change Nintendo's presence in western markets with western dev/pub support.

And the reason those major EA, Activision, and UBI franchise's a bombed on wiiu is because those games are not established on Nintendo console's, and they never will be as long as we have Sony and Microsoft have consoles.
 

jblank83

Member
And the reason those major EA, Activision, and UBI franchise's a bombed on wiiu is because those games are not established on Nintendo console's, and they never will be as long as we have XB1 and Ps4

Half-hearted, full priced ports of games released on other consoles 6-12 months earlier do not prove a point.

Nor does it take into account a demographic shift were Nintendo to fundamentally change its hardware engineering approach.

Given the "Wii" style generational lag approach has bottomed out, worse than anything they've ever done before except the Virtual Boy, there is no reason for them not to completely rethink their hardware engineering tactics.
 

Snakeyes

Member
And the reason those major EA, Activision, and UBI franchise's a bombed on wiiu is because those games are not established on Nintendo console's, and they never will be as long as we have XB1 and Ps4
It's probably a mix of two factors; what you said and the fact that the Wii U versions of those games did not offer enough of an upgrade over the PS360 versions (and in some cases were even worse) for the early adopters to care. The type of consumer that's interested in next-gen ports of AAA multiplats is likely aware of the Wii U's unimpressive hardware as well and will either not buy the console at all or opt for the last gen versions.
 
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