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[Fourth Storm]

I don't. If the aim is to make the control scheme more inviting, then clicking down on an analog stick to access additional controls is less simple and intuitive than having sticks, a d-pad and face buttons clearly defined and visible all the time on a standard setup. Also, having little help bubbles popping up next to the buttons is only gonna make things marginally easier for a casual player.

To me this seems like more of an expansion on the traditional controller with modern technology than a play for the casual audience.

Most casual players will be fine with just touch controls. The less clutter the better. The Wii U Gamepad is a mess because Nintendo felt compelled to add (nearly) every possible input on the darn thing. They have to make a choice here. Other patents seem to point to a simpler interface this go round, but of course, they're non-limiting. Still, between this and the indicators that NX will be more focused on affordability and power consumption, I'm convinced that they're going for that Wii/DS expanded audience.

 

[Kimawolf]

Most casual players will be fine with just touch controls. The less clutter the better. The Wii U Gamepad is a mess because Nintendo felt compelled to add (nearly) every possible input on the darn thing. They have to make a choice here. Other patents seem to point to a simpler interface this go round, but of course, they're non-limiting. Still, between this and the indicators that NX will be more focused on affordability and power consumption, I'm convinced that they're going for that Wii/DS expanded audience.

But wouldn't the entire SCD thing scream more core just from the seeming complexity of the entire thing?

 

[Elfforkusu]

I want some of those old Project Cafe photoshops.

The elongated gamecube controller with a screen in the middle of it is still my favorite.

 

[Schnozberry]

But wouldn't the entire SCD thing scream more core just from the seeming complexity of the entire thing?

To be fair, we don't even know what that is or if it will end up being an actual retail product as it was described. Same goes for this controller.

 

[Fourth Storm]

But wouldn't the entire SCD thing scream more core just from the seeming complexity of the entire thing?

Not necessarily. The SCD is described as possibly being a low cost and relatively low power device in that patent as well. The SCD itself might be marketed towards core players (still Nintendo fans likely) with more casual players either paying a fee or using points to gain access to a nearby SCD w/out a large initial investment. Casuals may never come into contact w an SCD. And if they did, it seems like the type of thing you could theoretically plug in and forget.

 

[Serenitynow]

Most casual players will be fine with just touch controls. The less clutter the better. The Wii U Gamepad is a mess because Nintendo felt compelled to add (nearly) every possible input on the darn thing. They have to make a choice here. Other patents seem to point to a simpler interface this go round, but of course, they're non-limiting. Still, between this and the indicators that NX will be more focused on affordability and power consumption, I'm convinced that they're going for that Wii/DS expanded audience.

Didn't Takeda say they weren't focusing on power consumption when he made that comment about looking outside of the Japanese market? Also didn't Nintendo patent a system that essentially lets you choose how much power you want to draw depending on how fast you want the system to be?

 

[Fourth Storm]

Didn't Takeda say they weren't focusing on power consumption when he made that comment about looking outside of the Japanese market? Also didn't Nintendo patent a system that essentially lets you choose how much power you want to draw depending on how fast you want the system to be?

Takeda, Miyamoto, and Iwata all made comments over the past year which indicate that power consumption is very much still on the brain. I don't think Takeda referenced it in that one quote you're referring to. The "We can't think that just because we are Japanese that we only should make products for Japan" quote. Still, there's no reason to believe otherwise and a good amount of evidence for a lower power console. Hopefully still able to get PS4 ports though, perhaps running at 720p.

I don't recall a patent like the one you describe, though. Maybe I missed it.

 

[NippleViking]

Hope this tech isn't super costly. Seems cool, and I'd be thrilled if they dropped the second screen and camera, but if the alternative was an orthodox set-up with an OLED screen and more power at a similar cost, I feel like I'd prefer that option before this patent's.

 

[Serenitynow]

I don't recall a patent like the one you describe, though. Maybe I missed it.

Here's the bit from the patent I am talking about:

Another patent describes a hardware system with multiple operating modes depending on the amount of power the user wants to consume—a full-power mode, an eco-friendly mode, and a very low-power mode that disables all network features:

An information processing system is capable of communicating with an external apparatus via a network. The information processing system is capable of operating in at least three operation modes including: a first mode; a second mode, which consumes less power than the first mode; and a third mode, which consumes less power than the second mode and where the communication via the network is not performed.

http://www.gamnesia.com/news/ninten...-game-chat-low-power-operating-modes-and-more

I don't want to go on about this too much longer for fear of derailing the thread, but for what it's worth I was under the impression they were having less of an emphasis on low power consumption this time.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Here's the bit from the patent I am talking about:



http://www.gamnesia.com/news/ninten...-game-chat-low-power-operating-modes-and-more

I don't want to go on about this too much longer for fear of derailing the thread, but for what it's worth I was under the impression they were having less of an emphasis on low power consumption this time.

Ah yes, I remember reading about that patent now. It's something to think about for sure. I still bet the console ends up using maybe half the energy of the current big boys. But you're right, we're going on a bit of a tangent here.

 

[LegendOfFalcon]

FIG. 10

FIG. 10 shows a further example of the game screen 100. In the game screen 100 shown in FIG. 10, a button image 110 is displayed near the second operation stick 18b. If the button image 110 is touched, for example, according to this, an instruction that is set to the button image 110 is input. Therefore, by assigning to the button image 110 an instruction different from an instruction that is input when depressing the second operation stick 18b, it is possible to input more variegated instructions. Furthermore, if the button image 110 is displayed supplementally (or additionally or supportively) to the second operation stick 18b in a range near the second operation stick 18b and the thumb on the right hand of the player reaches, it is possible to use the second operation stick 18b and the button image 110 as such a push button of the common game controller.

This part is interesting. If im reading this correctly, its suggesting that the onscreen button presses could be registered by pressing down on the thumbstick itself. It sounds as if first you would rest your thumb near the edge of the stick (near the pointy part of the stick in the diagram that is closest to button 110). You would then click down on the stick, but since your thumb overhangs slightly, you'd end up pressing on the touchscreen near the touch button 110. So you'd still get the click feel of a regular button, provided from the click down on the thumb stick, and at the same time be able to press the abxy buttons located around the thumbstick. It would take some getting used to, but that sounds a lot better than regular touch buttons.

 

[Ansatz]

Wait, people WANT this?

That's an example of how Nintendo can keep the Wii U gamepad concept going forward, while getting rid of the tablet form factor. The thing I want is to retain what a touch screen in the controller adds to the experience, how they solve this going forward we'll see but in one way or another it has to happen.

 

[MrCunningham]

Can we stop for a moment to talk about this guy?

He wanders, squats, jumps, takes cover, shoots the dinosaur (which causes the dino to explode) and plays soccer.

He should be the mascot of NX.

Quick! someone copyright/patent this character, then nintendo will have to pay YOU to use it!



Pft, that guy is last gen, he was used for the Wii U announcement!

It's all about Patent man now!

I suggest that we name him NiX.

NiX: The Patent Man.

 

[RomanceDawn]

Wow this looks awesome to me. I'm optomistic.

 

[Jims]

This seems like Nintendo's admission that the Wii U gamepad isn't tablet-y enough for people to use it like a tablet, but also that Nintendo thinks smartphone and tablet controls suck. So it looks like they trying to go for a home run and get the best of both worlds. Could fail spectacularly, could be a game-changer.

Looks intriguing.

 

[Snakeyes]

Most casual players will be fine with just touch controls. The less clutter the better. The Wii U Gamepad is a mess because Nintendo felt compelled to add (nearly) every possible input on the darn thing. They have to make a choice here. Other patents seem to point to a simpler interface this go round, but of course, they're non-limiting. Still, between this and the indicators that NX will be more focused on affordability and power consumption, I'm convinced that they're going for that Wii/DS expanded audience.

And they'll likely be fine with the devices on which they've been playing games with touchscreen controls, without the need for a dedicated gaming device. From the perspective of a consumer who isn't engaged enough with gaming to buy a dedicated game console, there's nothing in this patent that would compel them to change their mind, simplified controls and all. If Nintendo thinks they will attract some of that audience by opting for a controller with a smartphone-like control scheme at the expense of basic physical inputs, then they've learned absolutely nothing from the Wii U's failure.

Besides, touch controls work somewhat adequately on smartphones and tablets because the user is focused on the display, which allows them to gauge the position of their fingers through their peripheral vision and use the on-screen inputs fairly accurately. However, if the user's main focus is a TV screen, it becomes a lot harder to feel out where your thumbs are situated on a flat surface, even with some basic haptic feedback.

 

[Hermii]

A controller with an autostereoscopic touch-sensitive front surface? Yes, please!

What does auto stereoscopic mean?

 

[The_Lump]

It would be interesting if the grip was a shell and removable.

My thoughts exactly. I think there's at least a chance Nintendo would be considering this sort of thing.

I also don't think the oval shape of the screen is indicative of a final design. Just a hunch.

 

[Rich!]

What does auto stereoscopic mean?

3D without glasses.

Like the 3DS

 

[Thoraxes]

The closer we get to a date reveal, the more we see these patents.

It's all good stuff, and they do file a lot of these, even if many of them never come to fruition.

 

[Orniletter]

Who did this!?
It's weird if they go that way, you will be covering the sides of the screen with your thumbs.

It doesn't take a genius to come up with ideas to save processing power:

Say your left thumb would use the left slide-pad, the touchscreen automatically recognizes where your thumb is and turns the pixels underneath your thumb off to free up ressources for demanding games.

So yes, while you'd still cover screen area with your thumbs, it's doesn't have to a ressource hog or whatever some people in this thread called it.

 

[SlipperyFishes]

You mean... gimmicky? No thanks!

PSVR and HoloLens are equally as gimmicky. Even with the risk involved Sony are playing it incredibly safe with no real innovation or risk we aren't seeing elsewhere (Oculus VR, GearVR, HTC)

 

[Graphics Horse]

It doesn't take a genius to come up with ideas to save processing power:

Say your left thumb would use the left slide-pad, the touchscreen automatically recognizes where your thumb is and turns the pixels underneath your thumb off to free up ressources for demanding games.

So yes, while you'd still cover screen area with your thumbs, it's doesn't have to a ressource hog or whatever some people in this thread called it.

I doubt they'd go that far (normal touch screens could do that too but they don't) But I'd expect that the software can request a mask from the OS which tells it what pixels are outside of the screen shape, which could vary across handheld revisions.

 

[magnetic]

Layman question: Is rendering graphics for a non-rectangular screen as simple as for regular ones? Meaning, is the "processing power per pixel" the same?
I mean, since this is such new technology.

Or does the arrangement not matter at all and it's purely the amount of pixels that need rendering?

 

[Alanood]

Nintendo's gimmicks beats all. Again.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

If the screen supplements a healthy supply of physical buttons (and sticks, digital "sticks" on touch screens are fucking awful) rather than replacing the majority of them outright, it could really be amazing. Revolutionary even. If they skimp on physical inputs though, they'll need to pair it with some pretty damn revolutionary enhancements to touch screen inputs. And seeing how the best Apple money can buy still doesn't quite stack up to real buttons, I don't expect much. Especially with Nintendo still using resistive touch on the Wii U. I fully expect them to cheap out.

 

[ryanofcall]

For one second I was worried that it will be all touch controls. But that could work. Not sure about fast paced stuff like smash though

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

Layman question: Is rendering graphics for a non-rectangular screen as simple as for regular ones? Meaning, is the "processing power per pixel" the same?
I mean, since this is such new technology.

Or does the arrangement not matter at all and it's purely the amount of pixels that need rendering?

Odds are what will happen is they'll render a rectangular frame sharing the same height and width as the irregular screen, with the excess just getting cut off. I imagine some devs might get tricky and render nothing but blackness for the cut off portions though.

 

[Dagobert Duck]

Did we already realize that the Patent Controller Design Looks like the Arcade Controller for Pokken in Japan?

 

[valouris]

I wonder how the no glasses 3D will work when your hands are obstructing part of the screen.

 

[Tempy]

Did we already realize that the Patent Controller Design Looks like the Arcade Controller for Pokken in Japan?

Someone did mention it earlier in the thread.

So much space for a screen...

I realize another interesting thing they can do is to add little screens on/under the buttons itself, much like the Optimus Maximus keyboard:

 

[Boy Wander]

I may be way off here but does this section

FIG. 5(A) shows an example of a case where the touch panel 16 of an electrostatic capacitance system is formed with a notch 34 instead of the hole 32. As shown in FIG. 5(A), the notch 34 has a width somewhat larger than the diameter of the shaft portion 1802 of the first operation stick 18a or the second operation stick 18b, and is formed toward a lower part from a position that the shaft portion 1802 is provided. Therefore, even if it is in a case where the first operation stick 18a and the second operation stick 18b cannot be disassembled into the key top portion 1800, the shaft portion 1802 and the detection portion 1804, it is possible to attach the first operation stick 18a and the second operation stick 18b through the notch 34 of the display panel 14 and the touch panel 16. Furthermore, even if it is in a case where the first operation stick 18a and the second operation stick 18b can be disassembled into the key top portion 1800, the shaft portion 1802 and the detection portion 1804, it is possible to attach these without disassembly.


mean that interchangeable controls are possible?

 

[dose]

Say your left thumb would use the left slide-pad, the touchscreen automatically recognizes where your thumb is and turns the pixels underneath your thumb off to free up ressources for demanding games.

How would it do this? It wouldn't know exactly what you were obscuring from your view.

 

[flkraven]

This looks like a nightmare.

 

[Starchasing]

How would it do this? It wouldn't know exactly what you were obscuring from your view.

It will not obscure much if you put the stick or buttons close to the edge. Go ahead and hold your phone sideways and imagine there are two sticks close to the edge.

I think this "gimmick" is intended to make a smaller device with the same screen size. Plus you can have virtual buttons around the sticks just like the game cube.

This looks like a nightmare.

It may look bad in drawings but it becomes really nice once you hold a screen and imagine there are two sliders on the edges of the screen acting as sticks, with virtual buttons around it.

Virtual buttons would work because you will have a point of reference to press them, and probably some kind of haptic feedback when you press them

 

[The_Lump]

I may be way off here but does this section

FIG. 5(A) shows an example of a case where the touch panel 16 of an electrostatic capacitance system is formed with a notch 34 instead of the hole 32. As shown in FIG. 5(A), the notch 34 has a width somewhat larger than the diameter of the shaft portion 1802 of the first operation stick 18a or the second operation stick 18b, and is formed toward a lower part from a position that the shaft portion 1802 is provided. Therefore, even if it is in a case where the first operation stick 18a and the second operation stick 18b cannot be disassembled into the key top portion 1800, the shaft portion 1802 and the detection portion 1804, it is possible to attach the first operation stick 18a and the second operation stick 18b through the notch 34 of the display panel 14 and the touch panel 16. Furthermore, even if it is in a case where the first operation stick 18a and the second operation stick 18b can be disassembled into the key top portion 1800, the shaft portion 1802 and the detection portion 1804, it is possible to attach these without disassembly.


mean that interchangeable controls are possible?

Potentially. But reading around it it seems it's probably more relevant to their own assembly and maintenance rather than a consumer related feature.

 

[E-Cat]

Looks terrible but so did the Wii U and I still ended up with one of those.

And it ended up both a commercial and technological failure. Hope Nintendo won't go underpowered due to this expensive screen stuff. It's the Wii U all over again.

 

[The_Lump]

A tact switch 1240 is mounted on the circuit board 1230 so as to form a line in the first operation stick 18a on a straight line of the thickness direction of the housing 12. In fact, the circuit board 1230 is provided to be slightly separated from the bottom using a spacer etc. As mentioned above, if the first operation stick 18a is pushed down toward the rear side of the housing 12, the detection portion 1804 is brought into contact to the tact switch 1240, and the tact switch 1240 is turned on. Since circuit components such as a CPU 50 described later are also mounted on the circuit board 1230, a signal (signal of a depression input) that the tact switch 1240 is turned on is given to the CPU 50.

Translation: CLICKABLE STICKS! Praise the lord.

 

[KevinCow]

It will not obscure much if you put the stick or buttons close to the edge. Go ahead and hold your phone sideways and imagine there are two sticks close to the edge.

I think this "gimmick" is intended to make a smaller device with the same screen size. Plus you can have virtual buttons around the sticks just like the game cube.



It may look bad in drawings but it becomes really nice once you hold a screen and imagine there are two sliders on the edges of the screen acting as sticks, with virtual buttons around it.

Virtual buttons would work because you will have a point of reference to press them, and probably some kind of haptic feedback when you press them

Virtual buttons have not worked, would not work, and will never work.

Good thing this thing won't have virtual buttons. It's a patent drawing. It's not supposed to show the final design, it's just supposed to show off the thing they're patenting.

 

[Turrican3]

I think it's pretty clear Nintendo are courting casuals again w/ NX. We should accept it.

I agree with the conclusions, and I'm totally fine with that, as long as they keep making stuff relevant to core users like they did last time (Wii is by far my favourite home console, go figure...)

And I think it also makes sense: this controller/handheld apparently is both going back to the roots with its minimal (physical) interface, but could also be appealing to nowadays people used to touch controls and the like... that is, assuming they put a capacitive touch there and handles can be removed, as per some of the patent pictures.

Nothing revolutionary nor groundbreaking like the wiimote by the way, but at least that does NOT seem an obvious trainwreck like the WiiU gamepad.

 

[Hibiki Kurosawa]

I'm open to whatever Nintendo wants to try, but until I see or try the real deal, I'm not sure I'm a fan of this.

 

[Starchasing]

Virtual buttons have not worked, would not work, and will never work.

Good thing this thing won't have virtual buttons. It's a patent drawing. It's not supposed to show the final design, it's just supposed to show off the thing they're patenting.

There are virtual buttons in the patent and they work because they are next to the sticks.

 

[Graphics Horse]

It may look bad in drawings but it becomes really nice once you hold a screen and imagine there are two sliders on the edges of the screen acting as sticks, with virtual buttons around it.

They are tilt sticks, at least in the part I just read.

Translation: CLICKABLE STICKS! Praise the lord.

I'm interested in these being used as primary button inputs, I don't see why they couldn't be, I guess Valve has come closest to this so far.

 

[Trevelyan9999]

I think it's pretty clear Nintendo are courting casuals again w/ NX. We should accept it.

Even if they are, it seems they already have Square-Enix convinced so at least as we have been hearing the architecture will most likely be easy to port/easy to develop for to get Third Party back. This patent is for the handheld correct? I wonder how they will get those games playable on the home console if these games will be able to work on both?

 

[ElFly]

FIG. 10

This part is interesting. If im reading this correctly, its suggesting that the onscreen button presses could be registered by pressing down on the thumbstick itself. It sounds as if first you would rest your thumb near the edge of the stick (near the pointy part of the stick in the diagram that is closest to button 110). You would then click down on the stick, but since your thumb overhangs slightly, you'd end up pressing on the touchscreen near the touch button 110. So you'd still get the click feel of a regular button, provided from the click down on the thumb stick, and at the same time be able to press the abxy buttons located around the thumbstick. It would take some getting used to, but that sounds a lot better than regular touch buttons.

I think it is saying that the button 110 can be pressed without the user's finger leaving the stick 118b, just by reaching a little.

It'd be awfully confusing if the touch screen buttons meant "press the touch screen" or "press the thumbstick" depending on some small ui change. It is still possible, but changing contextually what the stick itself does seems to go against the idea.

If you check figure 13, you will see how they are labeling the push on the sticks.

Virtual buttons have not worked, would not work, and will never work.

Good thing this thing won't have virtual buttons. It's a patent drawing. It's not supposed to show the final design, it's just supposed to show off the thing they're patenting.

Let's hope you are right, but right now the info we have says they really like touchscreen buttons that can be changed on the fly.

 

[Gnilres]

Are patent application drawing only indicative of what's relevant for the actual patent? This isn't what the final controller will look like, probably. It'll also probably have more buttons.

 

[GDGF]

Even if they are, it seems they already have Square-Enix convinced so at least as we have been hearing the architecture will most likely be easy to port/easy to develop for to get Third Party back. This patent is for the handheld correct? I wonder how they will get those games playable on the home console if these games will be able to work on both?

This patent could be for the handheld or the console controller.

I'm thinking it's both.

 

[Davey Cakes]

Are patent application drawing only indicative of what's relevant for the actual patent?

Yes.

 

[Nicko]

FIG. 10

This part is interesting. If im reading this correctly, its suggesting that the onscreen button presses could be registered by pressing down on the thumbstick itself. It sounds as if first you would rest your thumb near the edge of the stick (near the pointy part of the stick in the diagram that is closest to button 110). You would then click down on the stick, but since your thumb overhangs slightly, you'd end up pressing on the touchscreen near the touch button 110. So you'd still get the click feel of a regular button, provided from the click down on the thumb stick, and at the same time be able to press the abxy buttons located around the thumbstick. It would take some getting used to, but that sounds a lot better than regular touch buttons.

Absolutely! With a little more detail, that's almost exactly what I was surmising from this as well back in post #468. Haven't seen a lot of people discussing it, so happy to see others coming to the same conclusion.

Will certainly certainly be interesting to see this thing when it's finally time!

 

[Disorientator]