Bloodporne
Member
I hope not and I hope self-awareness never arrives at Team Ninja's doorstep as I'm a huge fan of these ridiculous and endearingly PS2 stories/cutscenes xD
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Nioh |OT2| You Can Be My Yojimbo Anytime
- Thread starter mcz117chief
- Start date
I hope not and I hope self-awareness never arrives at Team Ninja's doorstep as I'm a huge fan of these ridiculous and endearingly PS2 stories/cutscenes xD
Augemitbutter
Member
still melting, it's kinda funny. i always blame fire.
(not doing actual damage), hope people don't get the wrong idea.
Girl works hard at her job, can't blame her.
But does she ever make anything I can't get off a random dead corpse?
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Wut?
Augemitbutter
Member
she can make the pre-order armor if you got the recipe. so far the blacksmith is good if you want to optimise your gear. people are using her more in ng+, so it's more of an advanced option.
maybe the dlc will change things around.
The menu has no FPS cap, so it makes the PS4 run loud and hot for no reason. I just wanted to know if they fixed this because my PS4 already sounds like a jet engine frequently enough.
R_thanatos
Member
You can by by in the main game without trouble unless you've found a set that you like and want to keep it.
The black smith is not required untill the final strech of the campaign or if you're overlevel.
It's very usefull if you're underlevel.
However , past that point the black smith is a requirement
In doubt , just make a better gear from the same type of armor/weapon that you like and soul match your current set to the new ones , because after too many soul matching the cost rise quite high.
"Hey, you know what we should do? We should make a boss with an instant death attack. And we should either give it no sound cue or one that is drowned out by the music at default volume. And then we should put in enemies so the player has to turn his attention away from the monster that could fire his instant death beam at any time." - Some asshole at Tecno-Koei
I hate everything about the waterblob fight.
I hate everything about the waterblob fight.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Wut
Turbo Killer
Member
Didn't turn off the torches did you?
You rushed that level i see, the way i see it you probably dont have the shrine closest to the boss open too.
Light the torches and there will be no little enemies.
The boss isnt that hard, everytime that part glows, just dodge to the side, that fight caused me more trouble cause of the water, other than that just buff your weapon with fire and you re good to go, the second phase of that boss is even easier.
I always resent how when people complain about souls games, it's always assumed it's only because the boss is difficult.
No, the torches are lit and I can handle the boss pretty easily in terms of mechanics. What I'm saying, however, is that designing a special enemy that needs to be concentrated on and then distracting the player with secondary enemies is annoying and bullshit design on principle, but especially when it involves an instakill deathbeam that, as far I can tell, doesn't have any kind of sound cue to distinguish it from the the boss's other attacks.
Yeah cause that boss isnt suposed to be fought that way, its kind of a lesson
Then there shouldn't be any enemies to distract you while you fight the boss, which happens even with the torches lit. I'm not sure what you're getting at here, that I need to kill the enemies so I can concentrate on the main boss? No shit. Most Boss battles with Mooks underlings nipping at your heels are designed that you eliminate the nippers first. The best design I've ever seen of this was merely an annoying chore, the worst is a frustrating mess of a fight. I've never seen it actually improve a boss fight and consider it bad design.
If you still have enemies on that boss then
You didnt light up all the torches, you re speaking without truly knowing everything about that boss fight so what you re saying makes no sense, dont complain if you didnt do it right.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
If you have all three bonfires lit, there should be no minions. If you however extinguish one of those bonfires by buffing your weapon with it, than a minion will appear.
So leave them lit. And just use items/magic to buff your weapon with fire. Also that Haytato Mask is really effective.
Turbo Killer
Member
Nier and now Horizon for me.
Oh...I didn't even notice that third bonfire in front. Look's like I'll have to go hunting for that third lamp then.
Regardless, you understand that you are not truly arguing against my actual point here, right? That boss minions are BS design. You're just pointing out that there is a way to neutralize the boss minions to make it a conventional boss fight. You're just trying to pull a "git gud nub" by trying to paint it as mastery of the game is the missing ingredient here. I mean, it's not like this is a terribly good boss fight even without the minions.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
Would we have another live stream show on the 20th of this month?
Hopefully to show the new missions and maybe even PvP?
EDIT:
Screencap from the GDC, love this concept art
Hopefully to show the new missions and maybe even PvP?
EDIT:
Screencap from the GDC, love this concept art
I feel you bro. Evn with the torches lit its a stupid as fuck boss.
The ones that follow are waaay easier so hang in there.
nextgeneration
Member
I also hated the minions and they pissed me off as well, but once someone explained to me the way the mechanics worked, it made sense to me and I now think it's actually sort of cool. On your way to the boss, you need to find the torches to light up, so that when you get to the boss, the torches will be lit, so that it scares off the minions and they won't attack you.
As you're fighting the boss, you're not supposed to extinguish the flames to power up your sword because once you do, the flames aren't there anymore to scare off the minions. Thus, they come out to attack you.
My problem with this boss is the water, how easily you can fall into it. That more than anything else really pissed me off about this boss.
R_thanatos
Member
It's not a BS design if the game give you ways to go around it.
Even with the minions, you can still clear them with any fire build , or most fire items ( that are given to you by the NPC at the start of the mission AND found in chests in the level ) , OR any living weapon build.
There is like 4 or 5 ways to deal with this issue , so the BS is somewhere else.
Like , there is a title for clearing this fight with no fire lit and once you understand the mecanics , it's workable and doable.
As for the beam attack, there is a MASSIVE TELL before it happens and it is only a problem in the Hard version of this fight ( Twilight ) Where you can be in a tricky situation thanks to a random behavior in certain scenarios .
Other than that , this fight is anything but unfair.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
I enjoyed Nioh but its bosses frequently had some cheap mechanics (we doing paralysis crap this early on?). One too many levels that had nothing to do with the rest of the game. The prison one being the most shitty.
Koei Tecmo games have always had pretty shitty grab mechanics for instance and the range can get a bit much from bosses and standard yokai. Can be glitchy at times as well (Ninja Gaiden 2 & 3 massively so). For instance the Blob boss people are talking about above unleashed its one hit kill beam with no wind up once or twice. Just straight popped it outta nowhere right in front of me.
The Final True Boss of the game was also just an exercise in learning how to abuse Living Weapon and pop it at the right moments (+ juice it back up with spirit stones and pop again)
Also, the boss before that
, was it mandatory I hit the last one left with projectiles to deplete stamina? Gimmick bosses are always gonna be hit and miss for a game thats been training you on specific humanoids for like 20-30 hours.
Koei Tecmo games have always had pretty shitty grab mechanics for instance and the range can get a bit much from bosses and standard yokai. Can be glitchy at times as well (Ninja Gaiden 2 & 3 massively so). For instance the Blob boss people are talking about above unleashed its one hit kill beam with no wind up once or twice. Just straight popped it outta nowhere right in front of me.
The Final True Boss of the game was also just an exercise in learning how to abuse Living Weapon and pop it at the right moments (+ juice it back up with spirit stones and pop again)
Also, the boss before that
The Yama Orochi
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
I've actually noticed this quite often. People complain without utilizing any of the many tools the games gives you (frankly, gives you to the degree where some of it is just OP). It's not so much "git gud" - rather it should be "git smart"
Again, it's not at all what I am getting at. The point isn't "Can I win this?" It's "is this an enjoyable fight?"
I played, been beaten by, and beat a hundred different "Boss and his minions" fights over the years in gaming. What I haven't done is enjoyed any of them. Any of them. R_thanos's suggestions don't really mean anything to me because I do not enjoy minions nipping on my heels while I'm trying to fight a boss.
He took the term BS to mean "Unfair" when I already wrote out that I mean "Unfun". But really, the problem is the underlying assumption that you, and others, fall into: That the only way valid way to not enjoy a fight is if it's unfair. And that's not true. Even in my first post, I didn't say that the fight was unfair. True, I didn't realize the thing about the bonfire, but I beat the minions multiple times and 1v1'd the boss until his next phase.
Guess what? Even after the minions were gone, the boss still isn't fun. The mechanics were obvious, hit the glowy bits, dodge his attacks, he's weak to fire. I knew all that. People who are suggesting the to use the elements or living weapons and all that are not telling me anything new. But I'm still not enjoying it because he's aesthetically ugly, his mechanics are not engaging to fight, his arena is a death trap, and I still think he ought to have a sound cue to his death beam.
This isn't to say he's unfair. He's fair. There are ways to beat him, clearly defined. But if that were the only metric to being a good boss, then even Enslaved has great boss battles.
bagandscalpel
Member
The startup to Umi-beamu is still a good 2-3 seconds of him opening up his core to charge up with that yokai realm effect coalescing at the mouth. Dunno how much more tell you need for that move.
Unless, of course, you're referring to the OTHER instance where he uses the beam, as a near-immediate followup to the ship throw. In which case, there you have it, he will only use it as a followup to that move, so be careful from now on.
R_thanatos
Member
I don't understand.
Don't like the minions ? lit the fire.
Want the minions and the hassle , don't lit the fire.
Again , you have ways to make this fight fun or unfun as it suits your tastes.
The game is litterrally giving you the OPTION on how you want to approach this fight.
There is nothing BS about this fight. And Unfun is 200% subjective talk.
This isn't even a matter of "difficulty" or "skill" it's a matter of player preference.
Your critique is about a fight where you are GIVEN the option on how it unfold and neither method is actually right.
Even if you choose to not lit all the fires , you have Again 3, to 4 to 5 options to how you want to approach that fight suiting to all range of tastes. You can be uber agressive, or play a long game with or without boosts.
Like all your other complains are basicly nitpicks , you want a sound cue for that unbeatable attack , when the screen is glowing yellow already.
You complain that the area is a death trap ( that isn't a false statement ) when the area is not smaller than other area for bosses fight with only 2 exceptions in the game. The only difference is the fact that neither side of the area have guard rails so you can fall into the water.... a mecanic that was present in the ENTIRE level meaning that it is only a minor problem since it's not a sudden change of rule for this boss only ..it's something that is teached by the game to the player by just .... playing the level.
And none of that is BS what so ever.
I'm not going to argue the "unfun" part ..who am i to judge your taste. I will however argue on the BS , or the fair aspect of the fight and how the game actually expect you to react to it.
Umi bozu is not my favorite fight of the game , far from it , yet i understand that taking the level and the boss together , there is nothing wrong with it.
Yeah, that's the problem. People have got it in their heads that jsut because a boss is fair, it MUST be fun, and that's just not the case. I specifically stated that the point isn't whether it's possible to deal with the minions and the boss, and you just went on to recite again how I can deal with the minions and the boss.
Anyway, you're really just arguing semantics. It is bullshit, just not in the unfair sense and I've already specified that. I mean, come on, have you never heard the term used not to mean "This is an unfavorable situation" rather than "it's unfair"? Even if you somehow have...well, I already went over several times now that's not what I meant.
And yes, that is totally a subjective feeling. I never argued it's objectivity and I'm not sure where you got the notion (Other than, as stated above, the idea that I am only trying to look for ways to beat him when I'm trying to find ways to enjoy fighting him). From the beginning I stated that this was about me hating it on what it's fundamental design: A boss fight with minion. I hate these things. It's not a question of "Can I manage to kill the minions", I just hate minion boss fights. And even once you get past the minions, is the blob monster himself fun to fight against? Nope. Why would I be happy about having multiple ways to fight a boss that is fundamentally unfun to engage with?
You know, maybe I'm just a weirdo, but I don't play games to win. Or, well, I do, but that's not the point of why I play them. I play them to enjoy them. I especially enjoy action games, like Nioh mostly is.
What I want, whenever I enter a boss arena, is a good fight. I don't care if the fight takes me 2 tries, 5 tries, 100 tries, as long as it's fun. Similarly, I don't care if a boss takes me 1 try or 100 tries if it's not fun. Having an endpoint and win condition is a fundamental part of making a boss fight enjoyable, but, theoretically, you could have a boss fight that lasts forever and I wouldn't complain if it's fun to play.
The point isn't to win. The point is to play a good game. That is the fundamental problem I see with Waterblob, not that I can't beat it, but that I don't want to fight it.
R_thanatos
Member
LIsten i'm not arguing semantics , i'm arguing simple facts.
No one is arguing about what make the game fun for you or not.
I am discussing this boss fight , his mecanics , the possibilities to the players and the possible methods.
You're talking about some situation unique to you and using broad terms.
Your main complain , the "unfun" part means nothing to me and i can only sympatise that you don't like this boss.
BUt i'm not the one throwing terms like , "BS" and so one implying much more so it's not my fault that what you've stating doesn't do much , since you're continuing to argue things that aren't possible for us to argue about.
Like you haven't talked at all about what make this fight unfun aside from the minions except that unblockable attack that is telegraphed by the game.
What do you want us to answer except "pay attention to the BIG giant YELLOW Glowing thing"
Yeah it's unfun for you ..Aside from your hate of fights with minions , we've got no info at all so your argument , your talk of "unfun" feel flat.
EDIT : People are giving you tips for this fight and you dismiss them... and now you talk of a "fundamental" problem with umibozu yet i've seen NOTHING in term of facts about this boss in your posts
No one is arguing about what make the game fun for you or not.
I am discussing this boss fight , his mecanics , the possibilities to the players and the possible methods.
You're talking about some situation unique to you and using broad terms.
Your main complain , the "unfun" part means nothing to me and i can only sympatise that you don't like this boss.
BUt i'm not the one throwing terms like , "BS" and so one implying much more so it's not my fault that what you've stating doesn't do much , since you're continuing to argue things that aren't possible for us to argue about.
Like you haven't talked at all about what make this fight unfun aside from the minions except that unblockable attack that is telegraphed by the game.
What do you want us to answer except "pay attention to the BIG giant YELLOW Glowing thing"
Yeah it's unfun for you ..Aside from your hate of fights with minions , we've got no info at all so your argument , your talk of "unfun" feel flat.
EDIT : People are giving you tips for this fight and you dismiss them... and now you talk of a "fundamental" problem with umibozu yet i've seen NOTHING in term of facts about this boss in your posts
Game beaten today at level 93. Quite happy with that. Enjoyed it and was a fun diversion but its no Dark Souls or Bloodborne.
What it has done is made me sick of 3rd person for a while and even added to my open world fatigue.
So instead of Horizon going to jump into Tales from the Borderlands for a change.
Nioh for me is 8/10 but i lost conplete track of the story so it faltered a bit.
Ninjitsu OP thouugh!
What it has done is made me sick of 3rd person for a while and even added to my open world fatigue.
So instead of Horizon going to jump into Tales from the Borderlands for a change.
Nioh for me is 8/10 but i lost conplete track of the story so it faltered a bit.
Ninjitsu OP thouugh!
You really are arguing semantics. You're trying to insist on how a very specific usage of the term BS is not applicable when I have already stated I'm referencing an alternative definition. We do not really disagree on the facts in any sense (as evidence by my lack of refutation to your assertions of the fight being fair), you're just disagreeing with my application of the term.
I did mention it in this post, but before I posted, I edited it down because I didn't think they were terribly important. It started from "The mechanics are obvious" part, and it just combined with the part how I get what the suggestions to counter the boss. But fine, I'll expand:
Without the minions, what are you left with? You have this aesthetically hideous boss (and there are plenty of ways to make it look interesting). You might think this is a nitpick, but I'm big on enemies looking interesting. Similar, the music isn't good. And the death trap arena isn't a cool place to be in. The presentation of the fight is just not that great in general and makes it uninteresting that has merely 4 attacks all of which are pretty easy to dodge because they are EXTREMELY slow. However, he has an extremely long healthbar because the only way to do meaningful damage to him is to hit his glowy bits. But those only appear in situations after he attacks. So, that means you have have to wait on his slow ass to use his pathetically easy to anticipate attacks to do meaningful damage. And since he's a giant blob, his position is entirely stationary aside from when he jumps to one side or another. In a game about fast paced action, this is slamming on the breaks. It means I have to wait on him and be reactive instead active if I want to do effective damage. Fire enhancement only shortens the duration of this dilemma, it doesn't change it that you're either aggressively chipping away at a boulder or you're waiting on him to for those solid moments to inflict big damage. Either way, the fight just draaaags because the interaction with him isn't interesting or engaging, and nothing I see written can really address the problem of this design of the boss.
I hope that answers you're question, but now I have mine: What do you think you're going to do with this information? You now have a more elaborate version of my opinion, but it is still just my opinion. The opening of this discussion when I started it wasn't an argument, it was a commentary. There's nothing for you to prove or disprove. You wanted to know why I thought it was unfun in greater detail, and now you do, but whats the next step? Try to argue how it actually is fun to me? Or maybe how it was fun to you? It's not that you can't or shouldn't, but there's nothing to argue over, as you seem to think. Argument is a part of discussion, of course, but that doesn't mean all discussions are arguments, and this one wasn't. This was me putting down my thoughts and frustration. It's not the same thing as something that I invite you to try an disprove. Or even me, for that matter. Perhaps it's not much for you to work with that all I say "it's not fun", but there isn't an inherent necessity that you have to work with it at all. Worst case scenerio, it just becomes an idle comment that goes unreplied to, like hundreds on this forum, in this very threat probably. I have posts where I want people to come in and argue with me, but that doesn't mean every post is of that nature. Sometimes it's enough for a discussion to go "I thought this fight was BS" "I didn't think so. It's cool because of the approaches you can do with it." "That's cool, but it was still just unenjoyable for me" "That's a shame" and have it end there. (and to be clear, it's not that I'm discouraging discussion. I'm just saying that htis wasn't me trying to make an argument)
if they don't give us dang spotify/media player use by the time the DLC drops than team ninja failed as a staff, a game developer and as a crew. it's too damn grindy/repetitive (especially in the latter half) for me to want to do a new build/play-through or co-op with some bros who are just now playing the game without some jams despite the absolutely amazing combat.
this is still the realissue with this game. wake up sheeple.
this is still the realissue with this game. wake up sheeple.
R_thanatos
Member
WHAT ..?? So here you are on a open forom , stating an opinion but calling it a commentary ..and somehow this is not open to be critisized ?
What's the deal here ? You can only one to state your opinion but don't want to be challenged on it ?
The simple fact that you've written those posts and got answers is the proof that there is a discussion here. So somehow , here in a Nioh thread , you can post your "commentary" but you've got a Special treatment ?
Laughable.
Again , i have every right to disagree with something you've written as long as i've got arguments to back it up. It's fair and should be expected as long as i'm not attacking you.
If you don't want to talk, to argue, if you don't want to provide an information. Then why write here ? If no dialogue is possible , what's different than a drive by post ?
So now this part.
Finally i understand the point you've trying to make for all those posts.
Damn that was hard!!
What am i going to do with your opinion ? Nothing . i accept your opinion. But i couldn't even understand what your opinion was before.
I disagree with it , but i accept it.
If you express your opinion , people can understand it. Those "broad terms" from before meant nothing. I couldn't understand it. Many people answered by giving you tips because they didn't understand your main argument.
Why was it so freaking hard ?
Aside from your tastes , your argument now is about the flow of the fight and how it's not what you expect from this game. perfectly understandable. ( That's at least how i understood it ). I'm fine with that. What that so wrong to ask for more specifics ?
cryptosporidium
Member
Game still awesome. Keep thinking of ideas for a sequel. hows this
Anjin has a son who took his name in real life I believe, and in the 1630s theres a large scale jesuit/catholic rebellion in Japan. I think the lead up to that and the Dutch's involvement could lead to some really cool stuff.
Anjin has a son who took his name in real life I believe, and in the 1630s theres a large scale jesuit/catholic rebellion in Japan. I think the lead up to that and the Dutch's involvement could lead to some really cool stuff.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
I'm sorry, but you don't understand at all. You are as far as can be from understanding.
Discusions don't necessarily equal arguments. I wasn't making an argument. I was expressing my sentiments.
You didn't 'ask' for specifics, you demanded them because you didn't understand the 'argument' I was making. You came off as upset that you weren't getting them, angry that I wasn't providing them, and even this post has an frustrated air of exasperation. That you're still calling my posts an argument means you don't understand the basic purpose of my writing it down, let alone the fact that you seem to think I was trying to silence criticism of my posts by pointing out that this wasn't the kind of discussion I was looking for.
And the fact is that you're left in the same position as before I gave my specifics: Nothing except accept my displeasure at the boss. But you were going to have to do that anyway, even if I hadn't given the specifics because this was just me idly bitching about a boss I didn't like, not me trying to convince you that was bad boss. That's the difference. If this was an argument, you'd be entitled to those details because I was trying to convince you, and you need details to be convinced. That's not what I was doing, and it wasn't a call for help to try and beat the boss easier either.
You understand why I feel about the boss better now, but you don't understand why I wrote them.
The fundamental purpose of it was just expressing myself. You don't need to know why I feel felt this way about the Waterblob, just that I do. Because either way, you're just going to go along your way now because there was nothing to argue over in the first place. And it's not that you can't have a discussion about that, but it helps to know what it means when people say they are just writing down their thoughts instead of making an argument. It'll save you the feeling of feeling constipated about other people's lack of information.
BuckRobotron
Member
Probably a lot of players splitting time between Nioh and Nier A, such as myself. Itching to get back to Nioh but also holding off a bit waiting for DLC and the pre-ordered strategy guide. Game should get a second wind then.
R_thanatos
Member
Wait , was i supposed to heal you and change your worldview overnight ?
Sorry , i don't that that power ( maybe in a dlc ).
@the bolded , that's not how discussion work.
Such given this set of events , i'll just quit this exchange, Why bother ? you've declared that specifics don't matter when you're talking.
IMO, an opinion that can't be challenged or expressed/detailled is worthless. But let's agree that this discussion lead to nowhere. because hey.... Umibozu boss is such "BS" /s
You're not supposed so much as try since that wasn't the time and place for it.
Sure, so long as I have the final word emphasizing that you do not get the sentiment here. You're confusing disinterest with defensiveness. You're free to challenge my opinion and that's what you did and I'm fine with that. If I wasn't, I'd have, ironically enough, tried to disprove your assertions about the pro's of Water Blob since they contradicted with my own sentiments. If my opinion was supposed to be unquestionable, I wouldn't have been able to allow myself to sit by and let you try to dismantle it.
What you didn't understand was my disinterest in meeting your challenge, so you kept dogging me until you got the details you wanted that don't actually give you any kind of edge in the discussion at hand. Which is why I am trying to communicate to you that while discussions and arguments often overlap with each other, they are not one and the same. Refusal to disclose details I don't feel are pertinent, even if they're requested, is discussion, contrary to what you might believe.
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
When are dragon of tohoku news going to get teased y_y I'm ready for more.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
Is there still a live stream every 20th of each month? They had one last month to reveal info about the DLC after all...
