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[ShockingAlberto]

i belive that was all neogaf drama as i dont remember the press saying anything like this

It was said by a few outlets. Giant Bomb stands out in my mind.

I don't know if that was worse for Nintendo or THQ.

It's especially hilarious because SR3 was a great game. Some might even say Game of the Year.

The problem was that the 3DS game was going to be a port of an XBLA precursor game that ended up getting cancelled and rolled into SR3. I can't imagine the reaction to just the name helped, though.

 

[KAL2006]

Lol indeed.

But on topic, I'd like to clarify where my POV is coming from. I'm glad you broke down how much the devices technically do have in common, but where I worry is the practicality in this shared library approach, if it means the games are going to be exactly the same minus resolution differences. If Nintendo's motto is "the hardware drives the software", then why make two or more pieces of hardware that are virtually the same, and yet expect and have players expect unique software for each version of that hardware?

That was the appealing part about pairings like the SNES/GB, GBA/GC, and DS/Wii; yeah they had the expected similarities but enough differences, technical and otherwise, to drive the need for unique games for those platforms specifically tailored to them. That's probably the biggest reason why Nintendo's been able to justify supporting two platforms per gen. Now, I'm aware how other factors made it easier back then vs. now; game tech was more exotic, and costs were cheaper. There was also less competition from other markets, i.e smartphones and tablets didn't exist. And Nintendo as a whole was in a stronger position in those days, especially w/ DS and Wii.

But I consider those incidental factors, b/c there are still many factors that were deliberately formed as a result of those hardware differences, such as not being able to share engines and assets, that resulted in the unique 1st/2nd party software libraries between their consoles and handhelds of the past few gens. It may've made for difficulties at times (software drought, costs eventually I'm sure), but it also made sure each device had its own unique library worth getting them for.

This is interesting, b/c if people say exclusives don't sell Sony or Microsoft systems, the exact opposite is true of Nintendo devices. They mostly sell on their exclusives. People don't tend to give a shit about 3rd parties on Nintendo and haven't seem to since the Gamecube era, and arguably going back to N64 in some ways as well. So if people just come to accept that Nintendo's own games for the NX family are going to be the exact same across all devices, minus some token features thrown in that may make gimmicky use of one or two features exclusive to that device (and the aforementioned resolution), that's going to give a lot of people less reason to bother getting both or all of the devices, especially if 3rd party support ends up being questionable.

Which is why I honestly think Nintendo means w/ the whole "shared architecture" stuff, is that the devices may share some common engineering features and provide similar programming environments, but the "shared" things will come down to stuff like sound files, graphic files, base code, engine assets etc. I don't think (or feel it'd be a good idea) we'll see Mario Galaxy 3 on both NX console and NX handheld; if it comes down to that, there's no reason to force people to buy it twice. Just let them plug the card-cart or what-have-you into the console and handheld, since aside from resolution it'd be more or less the exact same game, right?

Shared game library. Sounds like a decent idea on paper but it lowers need for getting each particular device in the family in the long run. Hopefully Nintendo can find a balance there. I know why the idea sounds good, but it doesn't lend itself well in being practical, knowing what role exclusive software can have for spurring sales, especially true for Nintendo. It's something to especially consider in the West, where handhelds struggle against smartphones and tablets.

If the library ends up exactly the same between devices it gives their handhelds less appeal to Westerners and out of the two lines their handhelds are the ones that have consistently done well even in face of smartphones and tablets. I don't think Nintendo can afford to let that happen. These things need their own exclusives that justify the unique features of their given device form factor, or there's almost zero reason to get them when you can get the superior device in the family.

Here is the thing Nintendo dont need to sell both devices. Just as long as they sell one they are happy. Apart from die hards majority will either buy only the handheld or the console (Japanese market likely the hamdheld, US market likely get the console). Like you said Nintendo dont have the luxury like they use to with the stiff competition from mobile phones and console competitors. As long as Nintendo can hook a customer to one of their NX devices and have a vast range of software to sell they can succeed. Here is my own personal experience. I only own a 3DS and no Wii U. I would have bought Mario Maker and some other Wii U games. Nintendo have lost game sales as I would have bought a lot of Wii U games if they came out on the 3DS. I don't want to buy another system due to finances as well as having too many devices in my home. If Nintendo had announced an NX where they say all their games come out on it. It would make me a happy customer as I can get all my Nintendo games on 1 system and it would make Nintendo more money as they can sell me more games.

 

[Oregano]

Lol indeed.

But on topic, I'd like to clarify where my POV is coming from. I'm glad you broke down how much the devices technically do have in common, but where I worry is the practicality in this shared library approach, if it means the games are going to be exactly the same minus resolution differences. If Nintendo's motto is "the hardware drives the software", then why make two or more pieces of hardware that are virtually the same, and yet expect and have players expect unique software for each version of that hardware?

That was the appealing part about pairings like the SNES/GB, GBA/GC, and DS/Wii; yeah they had the expected similarities but enough differences, technical and otherwise, to drive the need for unique games for those platforms specifically tailored to them. That's probably the biggest reason why Nintendo's been able to justify supporting two platforms per gen. Now, I'm aware how other factors made it easier back then vs. now; game tech was more exotic, and costs were cheaper. There was also less competition from other markets, i.e smartphones and tablets didn't exist. And Nintendo as a whole was in a stronger position in those days, especially w/ DS and Wii.

But I consider those incidental factors, b/c there are still many factors that were deliberately formed as a result of those hardware differences, such as not being able to share engines and assets, that resulted in the unique 1st/2nd party software libraries between their consoles and handhelds of the past few gens. It may've made for difficulties at times (software drought, costs eventually I'm sure), but it also made sure each device had its own unique library worth getting them for.

This is interesting, b/c if people say exclusives don't sell Sony or Microsoft systems, the exact opposite is true of Nintendo devices. They mostly sell on their exclusives. People don't tend to give a shit about 3rd parties on Nintendo and haven't seem to since the Gamecube era, and arguably going back to N64 in some ways as well. So if people just come to accept that Nintendo's own games for the NX family are going to be the exact same across all devices, minus some token features thrown in that may make gimmicky use of one or two features exclusive to that device (and the aforementioned resolution), that's going to give a lot of people less reason to bother getting both or all of the devices, especially if 3rd party support ends up being questionable.

Which is why I honestly think Nintendo means w/ the whole "shared architecture" stuff, is that the devices may share some common engineering features and provide similar programming environments, but the "shared" things will come down to stuff like sound files, graphic files, base code, engine assets etc. I don't think (or feel it'd be a good idea) we'll see Mario Galaxy 3 on both NX console and NX handheld; if it comes down to that, there's no reason to force people to buy it twice. Just let them plug the card-cart or what-have-you into the console and handheld, since aside from resolution it'd be more or less the exact same game, right?

Shared game library. Sounds like a decent idea on paper but it lowers need for getting each particular device in the family in the long run. Hopefully Nintendo can find a balance there. I know why the idea sounds good, but it doesn't lend itself well in being practical, knowing what role exclusive software can have for spurring sales, especially true for Nintendo. It's something to especially consider in the West, where handhelds struggle against smartphones and tablets.

If the library ends up exactly the same between devices it gives their handhelds less appeal to Westerners and out of the two lines their handhelds are the ones that have consistently done well even in face of smartphones and tablets. I don't think Nintendo can afford to let that happen. These things need their own exclusives that justify the unique features of their given device form factor, or there's almost zero reason to get them when you can get the superior device in the family.

I'm going to be heading to bed after this post and I've had this exact discussion before so I'll try to keep it short and sweet.

1) Not having to develop NSMB3 and NSMB(whatever) will save a lot of time and money and allow their teams to work other stuff.
2) If you're making to games that look and run the same you're damaging their unique value.
3) Just sharing assets etc wouldn't really match the talk about not making hardware-based relationships with customers.or the comments about the hardware being "brother".
4) It won't really matter if the portable bombs in the west if people are buying the console and the games. Actually it means they're not forced to make games for hardware that limits their sales potential. The same obviously.applies the other way around. At some point customers have to buy some form of Nintendo hardware.


Or think about this hypothetical. If Nintendo could have sold Super Mario 3D World on 3DS as well and sold over 10 million copies like 3D Land would that be worth the loss of hardware sales? I think it absolutely would, software is the real money maker.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

I'm going to be heading to bed after this post and I've had this exact discussion before so I'll try to keep it short and sweet.

1) Not having to develop NSMB3 and NSMB(whatever) will save a lot of time and money and allow their teams to work other stuff.
2) If you're making to games that look and run the same you're damaging their unique value.
3) Just sharing assets etc wouldn't really match the talk about not making hardware-based relationships with customers.or the comments about the hardware being "brother".
4) It won't really matter if the portable bombs in the west if people are buying the console and the games. Actually it means they're not forced to make games for hardware that limits their sales potential. The same obviously.applies the other way around. At some point customers have to buy some form of Nintendo hardware.


Or think about this hypothetical. If Nintendo could have sold Super Mario 3D World on 3DS as well and sold over 10 million copies like 3D Land would that be worth the loss of hardware sales? I think it absolutely would, software is the real money maker.

Agreed. Bottom line is this - Nintendo needs to maximise the capability of their development pipeline. Get as many games out as possible every year and maximise the amount they can sell. Having one 'platform' with several hardware configurations will allow them to do that. It's honestly that straight forward.

 

[Hero of Legend]

Just to give a quick and easy parallel: Developers don't have to develop seperate apps for the iPhone and iPad and there can be iPad-exclusive apps.

That's what Nintendo's trying to be like.

Yepper. I can see stuff like MH5 being made for both (handheld targeted, playable on console, the mian highlight of the feature) and stuff like Assassin's Creed and other AAA hardware pushing games being only playable on the console.

Some like Sega might still just make two games for Sonic as the norm with Dimps on handheld duty again, but I really hope Dimps get to make their own Sonic games again instead of just doing handheld hand-me-down versions.

Also I can see handheld-only games period. Like Game Freak's Pokemon games.

 

[Neoxon]

Yepper. I can see stuff like MH5 being made for both (handheld targeted, playable on console, the mian highlight of the feature) and stuff like Assassin's Creed and other AAA hardware pushing games being only playable on the console.

Some like Sega might still just make two games for Sonic as the norm with Dimps on handheld duty again, but I really hope Dimps get to make their own Sonic games again instead of just doing handheld hand-me-down versions.

Also I can see handheld-only games period. Like Game Freak's Pokemon games.

There's no reason for NX Handheld games to be exclusive to the NX Handheld.

Spoiler

....unless Game Freak is hell-bent on keeping Pokémon handheld-exclusive.

 

[Eolz]

There's no reason for NX Handheld games to be exclusive to the NX Handheld.

Spoiler

....unless Game Freak is hell-bent on keeping Pokémon handheld-exclusive.

At this point, if the port is easy to do, I imagine Game Freak is like that kid throwing a tantrum and rolling on the ground because he is forced to do something.

 

[Deleted member 465307]

There's no reason for NX Handheld games to be exclusive to the NX Handheld.

Spoiler

....unless Game Freak is hell-bent on keeping Pokémon handheld-exclusive.

Are you sure? We don't know if there will be any handheld-exclusive features that could justify some games. As a small example, StreetPass.

 

[Agent Unknown]

Kind of bummed that we probably won't be getting a home/portable hybrid after all. Wish something useful like that was the hook instead of all the chatter over free form displays. Ugh. But if the shared architecture really does help them speed up development overall and allow at least a few titles to be shared that would be awesome.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

There's no reason for NX Handheld games to be exclusive to the NX Handheld.

Spoiler

....unless Game Freak is hell-bent on keeping Pokémon handheld-exclusive.

I think there will definitely be handheld and console exclusives still. Some games just would have to be compromised too much to scale between the two platforms. For instance, a game like XCX (well it's NX equivalent) would simply not be possible on a handheld that would probably be weaker than the Wii U. And of course Gamefreak will keep pokemon hanhdeld only. Plus, as long as 75% of the games are "shared" across both, I think they'll be good

 

[Neoxon]

Are you sure? We don't know if there will be any handheld-exclusive features that could justify some games. As a small example, StreetPass.

I think there will definitely be handheld and console exclusives still. Some games just would have to be compromised too much to scale between the two platforms. For instance, a game like XCX (well it's NX equivalent) would simply not be possible on a handheld that would probably be weaker than the Wii U. And of course Gamefreak will keep pokemon hanhdeld only. Plus, as long as 75% of the games are "shared" across both, I think they'll be good

The idea, in theory, is to have one cartridge that can work on both. And I was saying that NX Handheld games should for sure play on both (with the bare minimum of being up-ressed to 1080p). NX Console games I can understand being exclusive for the sake of said game being insanely ambitious & (for whatever reason) unable to be scaled down for NX Handheld use. That doesn't work the other way around. And as for features such as StreetPass, you can always do the n3DS method & unlock those features when you insert the game into an NX Handheld. Hell, give owners of both a benefit of using the extra StreetPass stuff when you insert your game into the NX Console. The only reason that an NX Handheld game should be exclusive is if you're Game Freak & are adamant about keeping your games handheld-only. And even then, it's not exactly a fair justification.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Lol indeed.

But on topic, I'd like to clarify where my POV is coming from. I'm glad you broke down how much the devices technically do have in common, but where I worry is the practicality in this shared library approach, if it means the games are going to be exactly the same minus resolution differences. If Nintendo's motto is "the hardware drives the software", then why make two or more pieces of hardware that are virtually the same, and yet expect and have players expect unique software for each version of that hardware?

That was the appealing part about pairings like the SNES/GB, GBA/GC, and DS/Wii; yeah they had the expected similarities but enough differences, technical and otherwise, to drive the need for unique games for those platforms specifically tailored to them. That's probably the biggest reason why Nintendo's been able to justify supporting two platforms per gen. Now, I'm aware how other factors made it easier back then vs. now; game tech was more exotic, and costs were cheaper. There was also less competition from other markets, i.e smartphones and tablets didn't exist. And Nintendo as a whole was in a stronger position in those days, especially w/ DS and Wii.

But I consider those incidental factors, b/c there are still many factors that were deliberately formed as a result of those hardware differences, such as not being able to share engines and assets, that resulted in the unique 1st/2nd party software libraries between their consoles and handhelds of the past few gens. It may've made for difficulties at times (software drought, costs eventually I'm sure), but it also made sure each device had its own unique library worth getting them for.

This is interesting, b/c if people say exclusives don't sell Sony or Microsoft systems, the exact opposite is true of Nintendo devices. They mostly sell on their exclusives. People don't tend to give a shit about 3rd parties on Nintendo and haven't seem to since the Gamecube era, and arguably going back to N64 in some ways as well. So if people just come to accept that Nintendo's own games for the NX family are going to be the exact same across all devices, minus some token features thrown in that may make gimmicky use of one or two features exclusive to that device (and the aforementioned resolution), that's going to give a lot of people less reason to bother getting both or all of the devices, especially if 3rd party support ends up being questionable.

Which is why I honestly think Nintendo means w/ the whole "shared architecture" stuff, is that the devices may share some common engineering features and provide similar programming environments, but the "shared" things will come down to stuff like sound files, graphic files, base code, engine assets etc. I don't think (or feel it'd be a good idea) we'll see Mario Galaxy 3 on both NX console and NX handheld; if it comes down to that, there's no reason to force people to buy it twice. Just let them plug the card-cart or what-have-you into the console and handheld, since aside from resolution it'd be more or less the exact same game, right?

Shared game library. Sounds like a decent idea on paper but it lowers need for getting each particular device in the family in the long run. Hopefully Nintendo can find a balance there. I know why the idea sounds good, but it doesn't lend itself well in being practical, knowing what role exclusive software can have for spurring sales, especially true for Nintendo. It's something to especially consider in the West, where handhelds struggle against smartphones and tablets.

If the library ends up exactly the same between devices it gives their handhelds less appeal to Westerners and out of the two lines their handhelds are the ones that have consistently done well even in face of smartphones and tablets. I don't think Nintendo can afford to let that happen. These things need their own exclusives that justify the unique features of their given device form factor, or there's almost zero reason to get them when you can get the superior device in the family.

If the games are exactly the same across hardware, then they wouldn't be leveraging the setup properly. Games should have differing features and modes between form factors, based on the capabilities of each. Think of it somewhat like the differences between Smash 3DS and Smash Wii U. Those two games have largely the same content, but the Wii U version has extra features and modes that take advantage of its capabilities. The shared platform would mean that instead of having to develop two Smash games, like they did for Smash 4, they could develop a single one which dynamically scales itself (and enables/disables things like Street Smash, which only work on one of the form factors) based on the hardware its being played on.

 

[Neoxon]

If the games are exactly the same across hardware, then they wouldn't be leveraging the setup properly. Games should have differing features and modes between form factors, based on the capabilities of each. Think of it somewhat like the differences between Smash 3DS and Smash Wii U. Those two games have largely the same content, but the Wii U version has extra features and modes that take advantage of its capabilities. The shared platform would mean that instead of having to develop two Smash games, like they did for Smash 4, they could develop a single one which dynamically scales itself (and enables/disables things like Street Smash, which only work on one of the form factors) based on the hardware its being played on.

He gets it. And as I stated earlier, you can give benefits to those who have both form factors & have benefits for carrying over your Street Smash data over to the NX Console. For example, you get a Crazy Pass or some custom moves if you win Street Smash & carry those wins over to the NX Console.

 

[Pokemaniac]

The idea, in theory, is to have one cartridge that can work on both. And I was saying that NX Handheld games should for sure play on both (with the bare minimum of being up-ressed to 1080p). NX Console games I can understand being exclusive for the sake of said game being insanely ambitious & (for whatever reason) unable to be scaled down for NX Handheld use. That doesn't work the other way around. And as for features such as StreetPass, you can always do the n3DS method & unlock those features when you insert the game into an NX Handheld. Hell, give owners of both a benefit of using the extra StreetPass stuff when you insert your game into the NX Console. The only reason that an NX Handheld game should be exclusive is if you're Game Freak & are adamant about keeping your games handheld-only. And even then, it's not exactly a fair justification.

I'm pretty sure that games like Denpa Men would be basically impossible to play (or at least play properly) on a home console, since that requires physically going places.

Also, if something relies on both screens being next to each other, then that wouldn't work well on a console.

Also, StreetPass Mii Plaza on a stationary console would be completely useless unless there was a method to sync your tags.

You do have a good point in general, just saying that there are exceptions.

 

[Deleted member 465307]

The idea, in theory, is to have one cartridge that can work on both. And I was saying that NX Handheld games should for sure play on both (with the bare minimum of being up-ressed to 1080p). NX Console games I can understand being exclusive for the sake of said game being insanely ambitious & (for whatever reason) unable to be scaled down for NX Handheld use. That doesn't work the other way around. And as for features such as StreetPass, you can always do the n3DS method & unlock those features when you insert the game into an NX Handheld. Hell, give owners of both a benefit of using the extra StreetPass stuff when you insert your game into the NX Console. The only reason that an NX Handheld game should be exclusive is if you're Game Freak & are adamant about keeping your games handheld-only. And even then, it's not exactly a fair justification.

I think another reason is for Nintendo to push more consumers into buying both variants of the hardware, especially in regions where one form factor will be heavily favored over another. I'm not saying this would be received very well by fans (depending on which games are exclusive, how many, and why), but it is possible. Your proposed method of providing benefits to people who own both seems like the minimum of what Nintendo will do to make both systems attractive. However, I think it's possible, not guaranteed or even necessarily likely, that they'll go beyond that.

I'm pretty sure that games like Denpa Men would be basically impossible to play (or at least play properly) on a home console, since that requires physically going places.

Also, if something relies on both screens being next to each other, then that wouldn't work well on a console.

Also, StreetPass Mii Plaza on a stationary console would be completely useless unless there was a method to sync your tags.

You do have a good point in general, just saying that there are exceptions.

Agreed. There is creative potential in games that allow portability. For some of those (and future ones) where movement and location are at the core of the mechanics, the "home console" version would have to essentially be a side mode. One thing I will say is that Nintendo's presence in mobile could mean their "portable-exclusive" game concepts could be placed there if they do not require buttons.

 

[James Scott]

Yepper. I can see stuff like MH5 being made for both (handheld targeted, playable on console, the mian highlight of the feature) and stuff like Assassin's Creed and other AAA hardware pushing games being only playable on the console.

Some like Sega might still just make two games for Sonic as the norm with Dimps on handheld duty again, but I really hope Dimps get to make their own Sonic games again instead of just doing handheld hand-me-down versions.

Also I can see handheld-only games period. Like Game Freak's Pokemon games.

I think if they can provide a cross play system I don't see them being opposed to it.
Also, how big is Dimps? Could they handle a 3D Sonic game? Lost World 3DS felt pretty good it just lacked the budget to make it a full game

 

[Neoxon]

I think if they can provide a cross play system I don't see them being opposed to it.
Also, how big is Dimps? Could they handle a 3D Sonic game? Lost World 3DS felts pretty good it just lacked the budget to make it a full game

lolwut? Lost World U was at least decent, the 3DS version was basically hot garbage. As for Dimps as a whole, I think the bulk of the group is busy with Street Fighter V right now.

 

[KAL2006]

Yepper. I can see stuff like MH5 being made for both (handheld targeted, playable on console, the mian highlight of the feature) and stuff like Assassin's Creed and other AAA hardware pushing games being only playable on the console.

Some like Sega might still just make two games for Sonic as the norm with Dimps on handheld duty again, but I really hope Dimps get to make their own Sonic games again instead of just doing handheld hand-me-down versions.

Also I can see handheld-only games period. Like Game Freak's Pokemon games.

I'd be opposed to this and so should Nintendo. NX should be like PC have all games work on multiple settings 2 on this occasion which should be easy for developers. It would be better for marketing and to avoid confusion of some games only work on 1 system etc. There should be only one section in a games shop simply called the NX section where customers have full confidence that the game will work on whatever NX platform they have. If they release both handheld and console. They should be called the exact same thing. Console called NX and handheld also called NX. If someone says you should try this game it's out on the NX they are referring to either console, just like when i say you should buy Angry Birds on iPhone i can be talking about iPhone 6 or iPhone 4. The only time you would differenciate the naming would be when you go to buy a specific system, the sales man would be like "which version do you want, the portable one or the one that works on your TV".

 

[Ogodei]

I had a thought on Zelda U: them making it cross-gen wouldn't be about up-porting it to NX, but simply about highlighting how the NX can play full Wii U level games (downscaled) on the go. That way the Wii U version remains the highlight, and the NX Home benefits are both minimal and downplayed, while Gamepad features still set the U version ahead.

 

[MR ARCADE FOREVER]

There is nothing unique about playing on handhelds in comparison to a console. I can easily imagine a Monster Hunter or Pokemon working well on a console. And vice versa, a game like Donkey Kong Country Returns Tropical Freeze can work on a handheld. Zelda Majoras Mask and Star Fox 64 were originally console games and there ports work well on handheld. We can also have the quick pick up and play games habdheld have on Console especially with sleep mode feature that next gen consoles have nowadays. And if you feel a game just would work on a handheld you can simply not buy it and continue to buy a game like Pokemon and play the game on NX Handheld. This is the advantage of cross platform it's flexible to the user, play on handheld have a wide variety of games some deep some pick up and play, play on the big screen play on the handheld on the go. This flexibility is the advantage here.

When I say unique I mean a different game or a game that is not available on consoles. I don't see the appeal of having a portable device to play what you already have on your console. Also, there is some uniqueness to handheld devices, the Nintendo ds introduced touch screen controls and 3ds glasses free 3d how can it not be unique? It's true that console games can be ported and played on handhelds like the games you mentioned but having a device just to replay what is on consoles just sound boring and dull...

 

[Eolz]

for KAL2006:
You can't force publishers to make games for two separate platforms with a different format (especially if the power difference is too big). It's just extremely practical for small devs/pubs, those wanting to expand their handheld audience (aka, really useful for japan), and those wanting to cover even more easily when it's possible (aka western games that should be everywhere, ala CoD or FIFA).
While there might some confusion if not handled well, this would make no sense to port everything everywhere, and might even alienate some devs/pubs up to the point they'd prefer to not port anything.

It would be already be pretty awesome if the ports were easy to do, and with incentives from Nintendo to do so.

 

[KAL2006]

When I say unique I mean a different game or a game that is not available on consoles. I don't see the appeal of having a portable device to play what you already have on your console. Also, there is some uniqueness to handheld devices, the Nintendo ds introduced touch screen controls and 3ds glasses free 3d how can it not be unique? It's true that console games can be posted and played on handhelds like the games you mentioned but having a device just to replay what is on consoles just sound boring and dull...

Well if the controller for the NX Console has a touchscreen they would have that covered. Also why the need for having 2 systems why not just purchase 1 system and get all your games their. You don't have to buy both a handheld and a console. It's dull for you as you want to buy both systems and want a reason too. But alot of people don't like buying so many systems and would want all games on 1 system.

 

[KAL2006]

for KAL2006:
You can't force publishers to make games for two separate platforms with a different format (especially if the power difference is too big). It's just extremely practical for small devs/pubs, those wanting to expand their handheld audience (aka, really useful for japan), and those wanting to cover even more easily when it's possible (aka western games that should be everywhere, ala CoD or FIFA).
While there might some confusion if not handled well, this would make no sense to port everything everywhere, and might even alienate some devs/pubs up to the point they'd prefer to not port anything.

It would be already be pretty awesome if the ports were easy to do, and with incentives from Nintendo to do so.

Yes you can force publishers to make games on both platforms that can be a requirement. And the power difference doesn't have to be significant between handheld and console. Handheld can be as powerful as a Wii U. And console can be slightly more powerful. Games on console will be 1080p with extra bells and whistles and games on handheld will be 540p with low graphics. The minimum requirement though if developers wanna be cheap is have games just be 1080p on console withought graphics enhancements. Small developers won't have issues as it would practically be the same architecture. They do it with PC and iOS all the time where the indie scene is huge. Hell they do it with PS4 and Vita and the architecture is different between those systems.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Yes you can force publishers to make games on both platforms that can be a requirement. And the power difference doesn't have to be significant between handheld and console. Handheld can be as powerful as a Wii U. And console can be slightly more powerful. Games on console will be 1080p with extra bells and whistles and games on handheld will be 540p with low graphics. The minimum requirement though if developers wanna be cheap is have games just be 1080p on console withought graphics enhancements. Small developers won't have issues as it would practically be the same architecture. They do it with PC and iOS all the time where the indie scene is huge. Hell they do it with PS4 and Vita and the architecture is different between those systems.

1) 3rd parties won't make games for a console slightly more powerful than the Wii U.
2) A console slightly more powerful than the Wii U is likely going to have trouble running Wii U quality games at 1080p.
3) Forcing support for the lowest common denominator in the platform is a good way to scare away developers, and limits the games which can be made.

 

[MR ARCADE FOREVER]

Well if the controller for the NX Console has a touchscreen they would have that covered. Also why the need for having 2 systems why not just purchase 1 system and get all your games their. You don't have to buy both a handheld and a console. It's dull for you as you want to buy both systems and want a reason too. But alot of people don't like buying so many systems and would want all games on 1 system.

You answered the question I want a separate handheld device to have a different game experience!!! I don't want to play what I already have on my console!

 

[Diffense]

In the not too distant past we had a situation where handhelds focused on 2D sprite based graphics while contemporaneous consoles were 3D machines. By the time NX launches portable and console hardware will be quite similar in terms of graphics capabilities (they already are) even if the portable will be less powerful. So it's inevitable that development processes for both will start to converge as well since devs will need similar tools, skill sets and techniques.

From Nintendo's perspective, they'll be supporting both so it makes sense to take advantage of the similarities as much as possible. IMO, what they're trying to ensure is that most of the codebase can be identical between console and portable versions. Seems likely that they're using Vulkan, for example, rather than separate console and portable custom graphics APIs. While this will make it easier to make console and portable versions of the same game it does not necessarily mean that *every* game will be playable on both. The unification has advantages in terms of human resource allocation and training as well.

This is unrelated to the above, but assuming Nintendo is providing both portable and console kits this could be the source of the confusion in some "leaks". A portable that's a slight bump over the Wii U would be quite impressive but nothing spectacular if you're thinking they're home console target specs. Nintendo may not have planned this but having multipe machines under the same codename is a great way to make unofficial informatioin even more unreliable.

 

[KAL2006]

You answered the question I want a separate handheld device to have a different game experience!!! I don't want to play what I already have on my console!

Then simply ignore games that you don't want to play on the handheld and feel it would be better on consoles. Continue to buy your Pokemon, Monster Hunter and Phoenix Wright for your NX Handheld. Then buy Mario 3D Platformer and 3D Zelda for your NX Console. You will still have the same thing you have now. Let us peiple who don't care about buying 2 systems and enjoy all our games on 1. The game output from Nintendo will continue to be the same and you don't lose out, other fans just get access to more games without the need for buying 2 systems

I really don't want Nintendo to fail again. Having a handheld library and a separate console library will make Nintendo have software draughts again. If they leveraged both libraries and had consistent game releases due to the combined studios they can be successful. In a market where smartphones are dominating the handheld market, and PS4 is dominating the console market. I think this is the right path for Nintendo to combine their efforts.

 

[TLZ]

If I recall, Matt said something along the lines of the handheld being a higher resolution than we're expecting, but lower than we're hoping. Am I remembering that correctly?

I'd take that as 720p since most people these days expect 1080p on everything handheld related from phones to cameras etc. The reasonable ones expect 540p and it's higher than that so 720p fits the bill.

 

[Violet_0]

in hindsight, I probably shouldn't have bought a WiiU in 2015

I'm getting close to abandoning consoles entirely

 

[AzaK]

Well, don't forget that holiday 2016 is when 3DS would be due for a replacement anyway, so a hardware release then would be a normal schedule. If efforts to replace the Wii U and 3DS are united, and given that Nintendo's portable and home console divisions are now unified, I could see 2016 being okay. I mean, their full R&D staff working together on a closely related product line? I could see 2016 happening.

I wasn't arguing against 2016 release; I believe it will be a 2016 release for both systems. I'm just unsure whether they could pull off something like in the patent. That is, an extensible system that has the option to share it's processing power amongst various hardware units. Not only does it require the hardware development but it would need specialised firmware and all the surrounding API support. Not to mention any extra work required by developers to take advantage of it.

There are of course first steps they could take to alleviate having a full fledged offering from the get go.

 

[MR ARCADE FOREVER]

Then simply ignore games that you don't want to play on the handheld and feel it would be better on consoles. Continue to buy your Pokemon, Monster Hunter and Phoenix Wright for your NX Handheld. Then buy Mario 3D Platformer and 3D Zelda for your NX Console. You will still have the same thing you have now. Let us peiple who don't care about buying 2 systems and enjoy all our games on 1. The game output from Nintendo will continue to be the same and you don't lose out, other fans just get access to more games without the need for buying 2 systems

I really don't want Nintendo to fail again. Having a handheld library and a separate console library will make Nintendo have software draughts again. If they leveraged both libraries and had consistent game releases due to the combined studios they can be successful. In a market where smartphones are dominating the handheld market, and PS4 is dominating the console market. I think this is the right path for Nintendo to combine their efforts.

Looking through this perspective it makes more sense I just don't understand how current generation games will run on the portable device how powerful will that have to be?

 

[Pokemaniac]

I wasn't arguing against 2016 release; I believe it will be a 2016 release for both systems. I'm just unsure whether they could pull off something like in the patent. That is, an extensible system that has the option to share it's processing power amongst various hardware units. Not only does it require the hardware development but it would need specialised firmware and all the surrounding API support. Not to mention any extra work required by developers to take advantage of it.

There are of course first steps they could take to alleviate having a full fledged offering from the get go.

It's not that different from existing Cloud infrastructure. All they really need is ways to move data around. Everything else will take care of itself.

 

[Kimawolf]

Looking through this perspective it makes more sense I just don't understand how current generation games will run on the portable device how powerful will that have to be?

In my mind its no different than a PC game going from high settings, to low settings. PC games do it all the time. A handheld would be the low settings, the console/SCD enabled device would be the high settings.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Looking through this perspective it makes more sense I just don't understand how current generation games will run on the portable device how powerful will that have to be?

"Console Exclusive" will logically be a thing. Nintendo would be setting themselves up for failure if they don't allow that.

EDIT: Also a bit of this:

In my mind its no different than a PC game going from high settings, to low settings. PC games do it all the time. A handheld would be the low settings, the console/SCD enabled device would be the high settings.

 

[KAL2006]

Looking through this perspective it makes more sense I just don't understand how current generation games will run on the portable device how powerful will that have to be?

Well Nintendo have managed to match or nearly match their previous home console power with their next handheld

After SNES
They released GBA

After N64
They released DS

After Gamecube
They released 3DS (if they didn't include 3D they could've got closer)

Lets skip Wii as that's pretty much a slightly more powerful GameCube

So we have Wii U
It makes sense their next handheld is near Wii U level power. As long as they don't have a resolution higher than 540p the graphics can be pushed to Wii U level. Perhaps they can have XL size as the default size if they feel they need to pack more power.

So where does console NX come in this. The console NX can be 1.5 times more powerful than handheld NX to support 1080p minimum for lazy developers. But for other developers who want to add extra bells and whistles they can use the extra power for better graphics just like PC games look better on higher end PCs. Here is the thing you may think well that's still not as powerful as PS4. But who cares. Everyone who wants to play 3rd party games like COD already have a PS4 and will buy those games on that system. There is no point trying to get those games on the NX, they should have their own crop of developers interested in the NX. Also having ARM architecture they can easily undercut the PS4 Price for the NX Console which can be big for Nintendo. Nintendo have learnt from expensive 3DS launch and expensive Wii U price that they can't sell at a high premium price.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Well Nintendo have managed to match or nearly match their previous home console power with their next handheld

After SNES
They released GBA

After N64
They released DS

After Gamecube
They released 3DS (if they didn't include 3D they could've got closer)

Lets skip Wii as that's pretty much a slightly more powerful GameCube

So we have Wii U
It makes sense their next handheld is near Wii U level power. As long as they don't have a resolution higher than 540p the graphics can be pushed to Wii U level. Perhaps they can have XL size as the default size if they feel they need to pack more power.

So where does console NX come in this. The console NX can be 1.5 times more powerful than handheld NX to support 1080p minimum for lazy developers. But for other developers who want to add extra bells and whistles they can use the extra power for better graphics just like PC games look better on higher end PCs. Here is the thing you may think well that's still not as powerful as PS4. But who cares. Everyone who wants to play 3rd party games like COD already have a PS4 and will buy those games on that system. There is no point trying to get those games on the NX, they should have their own crop of developers interested in the NX. Also having ARM architecture they can easily undercut the PS4 Price for the NX Console which can be big for Nintendo. Nintendo have learnt from expensive 3DS launch and expensive Wii U price that they can't sell at a high premium price.

With that level of difference, they'd be lucky to even manage the resolution bump. This setup really can't shine without something closer to a generational gap between the two form factors. By making a super weak home console, they'd be going after a vanishingly small market. It's not a coincidence that microconsoles haven't caught on. Even Apple has seemingly failed at that.

 

[KAL2006]

With that level of difference, they'd be lucky to even manage the resolution bump. This setup really can't shine without something closer to a generational gap between the two form factors. By making a super weak home console, they'd be going after a vanishingly small market. It's not a coincidence that microconsoles haven't caught on. Even Apple has seemingly failed at that.

Well then 2x or 3x or 4x I guess. Basically enough horse power for a resolution bump from 540p to 1080p. And from low settings graphics to ultra settings graphics like you have on PC. Again I don't expect PS4 level graphics. Something between Wii U and PS4 for the console NX. Nintendo can't compete in the power game. It would just be another GameCube with the odd 3rd party games ported with the poorest sales. It's would be a better idea to keep the power parity between handheld and console not too different. Lets take a look at the NVIDIA Shield TV. Here in the UK you can buy that system at £150 in comparison to a PS4 which is £250 to £300. They can release a console more powerful than NVIDIA Shield TV this fall for a competetive price. The argument that it's a microsconsole is mute. This would be marketed as Nintendo's next console with proper games and not android game ports

 

[-Horizon-]

I need more rumors/leaks.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

Ahhh speculation threads how I miss thee.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Well then 2x or 3x or 4x I guess. Basically enough horse power for a resolution bump from 540p to 1080p. And from low settings graphics to ultra settings graphics like you have on PC. Again I don't expect PS4 level graphics. Something between Wii U and PS4 for the console NX. Nintendo can't compete in the power game. It would just be another GameCube with the odd 3rd party games ported with the poorest sales. It's would be a better idea to keep the power parity between handheld and console not too different. Lets take a look at the NVIDIA Shield TV. Here in the UK you can buy that system at £150 in comparison to a PS4 which is £250 to £300. They can release a console more powerful than NVIDIA Shield TV this fall for a competetive price. The argument that it's a microsconsole is mute. This would be marketed as Nintendo's next console with proper games and not android game ports

Personally I'd argue that a larger power gap is actually beneficial. It allows the home console to differentiate itself further (since if you do just enough for the resolution bump, that's all the advantage the console will ever have), and give people an incentive to buy both.

 

[KAL2006]

Personally I'd argue that a larger power gap is actually beneficial. It allows the home console to differentiate itself further (since if you do just enough for the resolution bump, that's all the advantage the console will ever have), and give people an incentive to buy both.

I don't get this fascination of buying both. Nintendo's main aim is to get you in the NX. Infastructure and get you buying a ton of NX games. I personally wouldn't buy both. Maybe down the line I'd buy a NX handheld. But a console is all I want where I can play all Nintendo games.

 

[orioto]

Everyone is still focused on how Nintendo can bring back big third party games and how it's an obligation to "survive" next generation.

I really think with strong Nintendo soft, innovative, that creates new communities (like splatoon), big Japanese exclusives (they should try to not let Sony win that battle. They could have had shenmue if they decided to, and lot more cult ips...) and using the strength of their portable market, they can come out strong.

They don't need something crazy. Just a good strategy, playing on their strengths, securing that jrpg market, the kid's market, the anime fans market...

I'm really looking forward to that new portable and i think it can be a strong drive. Cause it's been several years that the Nintendo portable is the default platform in Japan, but it was frustrating cause of the big limitations. First with the NDS, then even the 3DS. But the next one will really be enough for any kind of game, of any scope, of any genres. It could have a really strong library of gorgeous games, just in the range of what the average japanese devs can output now.

Then they need strong software. Splatoon could have done 3x more i it was a portable game. Mario Maker will certainly be present at some time on their new portable.. When you think about it, it'll be probably the first generation where they could actually release a "main" original 3D Zelda on portable, that would have bigger chances to begin with. It seems like more of the same thing but let's say i think their strategy could blossom on a good ecosystem with the portable being able to expand as a home console.

 

[LewieP]

I do think Nintendo need to make their platforms more appealing to third parties.

But I don't think that needs to take the form of appealing to the big Western publishers. I think to an extent that is a lost cause: Those large publishers are only coming back to Nintendo in a big way if Nintendo achieve a significant market share.

They should focus on appealing to indies, top tier mobile devs, smaller Japanese publishers, and larger publishers/studios that they can make strategic collaborations with.

The indie games that have release on the 3DS have typically sold quite well, the issue is that there are significant technical barriers to releasing there. Many indie games can't really run on the 3DS, at least not without significant work/compromises.

There's a bunch of great games on mobile, some of them don't really make sense on a console, but some of them do. Offering a well curated selection of the best of mobile games would be a smart idea. Especially alongside their own games for mobile, which should have console versions too.

A lot of smaller Japanese publishers have been prioritizing the Vita with their games. Nintendo could theoretically offer another platform for these types of studios to release their games on, and the amount of sales needed to break even for ports of this nature is far lower than for the big Western publishers.

Collaborations like those Nintendo have had with Platinum, Koei Tecmo, Capcom, Sega and the likes of Next Level Games & Monster Games outside of Japan seem to work pretty well. They could do with more of these, especially outside of Japan.

If they can execute in all of these areas, in addition to increasing their internally developed output, I think they'd be able to have a strong library for the NX.

Big Western publishers aren't entirely a lost cause, and no doubt certain games will make it over to NX (at least the likes of Rayman/Just Dance from Ubi, and maybe Call of Duty from Activision), but aside from building a platform that is easy to develop for, the next challenge in this area is install base. If they can make NX a hit, the publishers will come, but they are not going to dedicate huge amounts of resources to it at launch.

 

[Terrell]

I know many people have amply answered these questions, but I will through in my contribution anyways.

I don't like the idea of having the sames games coming out for the console and portable devices. What I like about handheld is the unique experience of playing games designed exclusively with its characteristics in mind. I want to play console games on consoles not on handhelds, that's why I have a big TV to sit down and enjoy it. When I am on the go I want a difference experience not just replay what I already have on my console....just my opinion

If the hardware on console and handheld have matching characteristics aside from the power envelope, there's no need for a differentiation. In fact, it seems that the only differentiation that Nintendo wants moving forward is the way you play and what the device can visually and computationally achieve.

And I'm sorry, I'd argue that in some instances, you potentially are already playing the same game at home and on the road, just paying for that game twice because there wasn't a means to adequately bridge the gap between them. See: Mario Kart 7 and Mario Kart 8, the NSMB series, MH3.

I'm not too sure if they'll do dual screens, mainly for the sake of control parity with the NX Console. The way I'm seeing it is that the NX Handheld could have one big free-form screen, which is emulated with the NX Console's controller (albeit with handles on the NX Console controller's version).

Assuming we won't get another Gamepad, I see, albeit one with better costing.

Lol indeed.

But on topic, I'd like to clarify where my POV is coming from. I'm glad you broke down how much the devices technically do have in common, but where I worry is the practicality in this shared library approach, if it means the games are going to be exactly the same minus resolution differences. If Nintendo's motto is "the hardware drives the software", then why make two or more pieces of hardware that are virtually the same, and yet expect and have players expect unique software for each version of that hardware?

Nintendo has already stated they don't want their consumer relationship to be tied to specific hardware units/form factors. If the object is moving software, as long as a consumer is buying ANY Nintendo hardware, they're still going to sell near the same amount of software without developing the game twice. So there is very little to be lost in this approach.

How 3rd-parties will approach it is an unknown, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that some of them would find the approach enticing.

If the games are exactly the same across hardware, then they wouldn't be leveraging the setup properly. Games should have differing features and modes between form factors, based on the capabilities of each. Think of it somewhat like the differences between Smash 3DS and Smash Wii U. Those two games have largely the same content, but the Wii U version has extra features and modes that take advantage of its capabilities. The shared platform would mean that instead of having to develop two Smash games, like they did for Smash 4, they could develop a single one which dynamically scales itself (and enables/disables things like Street Smash, which only work on one of the form factors) based on the hardware its being played on.

No, I'm sorry, but the idea should be that the only thing that separates the devices to the consumer is their own gaming habits and preferences with Nintendo treating their form factors as equal. Lock-outs of features smacks of the "hostage situation" we had with SFxT's on-disc DLC debacle.

When I say unique I mean a different game or a game that is not available on consoles. I don't see the appeal of having a portable device to play what you already have on your console. Also, there is some uniqueness to handheld devices, the Nintendo ds introduced touch screen controls and 3ds glasses free 3d how can it not be unique? It's true that console games can be ported and played on handhelds like the games you mentioned but having a device just to replay what is on consoles just sound boring and dull...

This seems like a purely psychological issue.

If you don't want to play console games on a handheld, that essentially only becomes an issue if you only own the handheld, and is easily resolved by not buying games that you arbitrarily assign as a "console" game.

 

[TLZ]

There's no reason for NX Handheld games to be exclusive to the NX Handheld.

Spoiler

....unless Game Freak is hell-bent on keeping Pokémon handheld-exclusive.

That line from Nintendo's press (Iwata?) about how new hardware created a disconnection with customers, is very important to understand and take in as it reveals a lot imo. He's basically saying it's not about the hardware anymore as it's more about the OS. Keeping the customers connected no matter what hardware they introduce obviously points towards an iOS/Android like environment. Release a ton of different looking hardware and it won't matter. It'll still play your games and use your account. You won't have to recreate anything. It's a very smooth transition, if any transition at all. All you have to do is sign in using your account on any device and there you are, all familiar. Only difference of course would be that games would play a bit differently to the strength of each hardware.

Maybe Nintendo are securing their future with this when in a decade hardware wouldn't matter much and we slowly transition to streaming services. This means them already having more than enough experience with this until that happens, that other hardware manufacturers will use Nintendo's OS for their systems whether it be TVs, tablets, phones(?) or whatever new tech we get later.

My opinion of course.

 

[Neoxon]

That line from Nintendo's press (Iwata?) about how new hardware created a disconnection with customers, is very important to understand and take in as it reveals a lot imo. He's basically saying it's not about the hardware anymore as it's more about the OS. Keeping the customers connected no matter what hardware they introduce obviously points towards an iOS/Android like environment. Release a ton of different looking hardware and it won't matter. It'll still play your games and use your account. You won't have to recreate anything. It's a very smooth transition, if any transition at all. All you have to do is sign in using your account on any device and there you are, all familiar. Only difference of course would be that games would play a bit differently to the strength of each hardware.

Maybe Nintendo are securing their future with this when in a decade hardware wouldn't matter much and we slowly transition to streaming services. This means them already having more than enough experience with this until that happens, that other hardware manufacturers will use Nintendo's OS for their systems whether it be TVs, tablets, phones(?) or whatever new tech we get later.

My opinion of course.

That's exactly why I'm saying that there shouldn't be any NX Handheld exclusives. The transition between devices when moving the game cartridge should be seamless & confirm to the device in question.....at least in theory.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Hey remember when this thread was about whatever some analysts said? Yeah me neither.

 

[Rubixcuba]

Hey remember when this thread was about whatever some analysts said? Yeah me neither.

Shhh, you'll ruin the speculation.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Shhh, you'll ruin the speculation.

NX threads always devolve into the same group of people (including myself mind you) going around in circles debating the same old set of topics while the mods are laughing at us.

 

[Anth0ny]

If Nintendo doesn't get the big western third parties on board, they aren't going to sell consoles. Period.

It's all well and good that they are going around funding projects like Bayonetta 2 and releasing niche titles and JRPGS... seriously the Wii U library completely shits on the PS4 and Xbone's imo. But it didn't sell, and the NX being a first party box once AGAIN will not sell.

Oh, and a first party box that gets some Japanese third parties and indies on board won't sell either. The stuff they did with Platinum on the Wii U was really cool but sold FUCK ALL. More partnerships like that will do little to nothing for Nintendo.

They need to target the masses if they want to get out of the Gamecube/Wii U ghetto. They need the shooter crowd. They need the sports crowd. They need the open world Ass Creed/GTA/Watch Dogs crowd. Whether that's through the third parties or through Nintendo itself developing its own exclusive sports or realistic M rated shooters to create interest, completely ignoring the largest portion of the console and traditional game buying audience is insanity to me.

I am certain that if Nintendo releases yet another underpowered first party box with a gimmick the NX will be a failure. The appeal is just NOT there for the masses, no matter how great their games are.