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"Noob Friendly" Fighting game systems
- Thread starter Platy
- Start date
projekt84 said:
First off, do you, are did you live in Florida? Your screen name reminds me of someone.
Secondly, the only thing mentioned in the bolded that could be interpreted as accidental is Wavedashing. L-Cancelling and DI (in a very limited fashion) are in Smash 64.
The initial barrier of Smash is low, because controlling your character is precise and intuitive <----- this is the only element I feel traditional fighters should be aping Smash.
2D fighters (outside Street Fighter 4) are precise, but far from intuitive. 3D fighters tend to be more intuitive, but not as precise. Melee provided the best of both worlds (IMO).
A lot of the spectator trappings in Melee come from the game's overall speed and free-form movement. This allows for its unique set of mind games and creative combo system to flourish, because you will not see elaborate, standard sequences of actions develop as much as you would in 2D or 3D fighters (i.e. a perfect match were one player dominates a round by getting the initial attack/combo -> oki -> and making all the appropriate reads from there).
Simply put, obviously, because of the game's speed and precision, the game is going to require some level of dexterity, which will become impressive at high-levels of play. as people get better. I don't think speed is as much of a barrier as some of these developers seem to think it is. At least, not in fighters that aren't Marvel.
While I don't have a problem with the way games are played now, I think more of an emphasis should be put on smart play, not just memorizing combos. If I want to zone someone with normals and I keep them out 95% of the match, should I really lose to one jump in that takes away half my health?
SmokeMaxX said:
To be honest...yes, I think you should. Zoning characters building tons of meter by just doing what they do, while rush down characters need to take all type of punishment to get in...and not gaining any bar while doing so. Yeah, I know, focus attacks and blocking give a little bar. But really, if I'm a screen away, I'm playing your game. When I'm in your shit, now it's my turn.
Anyways, now that I think about it, I want some sort of bar building feature to make a return....or something to help rush down characters. Look at MVC3, the wide screens on TV have given tons more space to run away characters. Add the fact that zoning characters build meter just by keeping you out and....shit, that's an pretty big advantage, I think. If a rush down characters gets in and makes you hurt, it's your own fault.
....as you can probably tell, I use rush down characters and have already got a nice pre-salt building up for the scrubs keeping me out with bullshit zoning in MVC3.
late edit...holy fuck. Just saw that you said keep people out with normals. Fuck I'm not deleting this
SmokeMaxX said:
Yes, because what zoning with normals is a low risk/low return strategy. Jumping in on someone is considered a high risk/high return strategy. If they read you and know they can jump in on you and take off half of your life, how is that not "smart play" on your opponent's part?
The Faceless Master
Member
i agree with you... zoningpeople out with normals should do 20-40% per hit.SmokeMaxX said:
DryEyeRelief
Member
bandresen said:
You sound like you don't understand why people dislike simple mode. It isn't due to elitism.
DryEyeRelief
Member
The chess analogy I don't agree with. At least as far as describing the execution part of fighting games. Something more appropriate to compare would be...rhythm games actually, like guitar hero. There's a certain performance part of fighting games that beginner/entry players don't appreciate, or actually see.
A good example would be say, if you were fighting an opponent, and your opponent completely misses with a move, and now his character has a recovery animation for it. You now have a window of opportunity to punish him for his mistake, so you have to "perform" your hardest hitting combo. if you mess it up, it's your opponent's reward.
To be honest, people saying fighting games are determined by execution... the idea of these terrible complicated quarter circle motions involving different buttons being too complicated. :lol at an intermediate level, that isn't even an issue. From my perspective, they're just complaints from people with the idea "i could be good at this game...maybe" but they're not because they aren't experienced, or even try to be.
I could be good at guitar hero, if all the colored keys were activated by my mind instead of button presses.
A good example would be say, if you were fighting an opponent, and your opponent completely misses with a move, and now his character has a recovery animation for it. You now have a window of opportunity to punish him for his mistake, so you have to "perform" your hardest hitting combo. if you mess it up, it's your opponent's reward.
To be honest, people saying fighting games are determined by execution... the idea of these terrible complicated quarter circle motions involving different buttons being too complicated. :lol at an intermediate level, that isn't even an issue. From my perspective, they're just complaints from people with the idea "i could be good at this game...maybe" but they're not because they aren't experienced, or even try to be.
I could be good at guitar hero, if all the colored keys were activated by my mind instead of button presses.
Some games are about execution. Some games are about strategy. Fighting games are both. Execution is, and always has been, a part of fighting games. This isn't a bad thing, and I'm not sure why some people in this thread think that it is.
The thing is, Street Fighter isn't a hard game. It's difficulty is entirely based on how skillful your opponent is in both execution and strategy. If you have no interest in getting better at the game, that's fine... just find other beginners who don't care about getting better at the game and just want to mash normals with the occasional special/super. You're not trying to get to a competitive level anyway, so it doesn't matter. It's just in good fun. I just find it odd. Oh, so you can't execute a spinning pile driver? That doesn't mean you can't play Street Fighter. Play without the spinning pile driver.
You don't NEED 1-2 frame links, super moves, FADCs to play Street Fighter 4. It's just one way the game is played... some would argue the correct way, but you can extend this notion to other competitive games as well. In Starcraft, you don't NEED to use hotkeys, or have good micromanagement to play the game. But you'll never be competitive without it. In Halo, you don't NEED to know proper armor ability usage, weapon placement, or have a steady sniping finger... but you'll never be competitive without it.
I don't necessarily have a problem with Easy Operation modes... I just don't really see the point, nor do I like to see wasted effort go into one. Fighting games are about execution. If you don't want to learn execution, play against other people who can't execute moves, or play a different genre.
The thing is, Street Fighter isn't a hard game. It's difficulty is entirely based on how skillful your opponent is in both execution and strategy. If you have no interest in getting better at the game, that's fine... just find other beginners who don't care about getting better at the game and just want to mash normals with the occasional special/super. You're not trying to get to a competitive level anyway, so it doesn't matter. It's just in good fun. I just find it odd. Oh, so you can't execute a spinning pile driver? That doesn't mean you can't play Street Fighter. Play without the spinning pile driver.
You don't NEED 1-2 frame links, super moves, FADCs to play Street Fighter 4. It's just one way the game is played... some would argue the correct way, but you can extend this notion to other competitive games as well. In Starcraft, you don't NEED to use hotkeys, or have good micromanagement to play the game. But you'll never be competitive without it. In Halo, you don't NEED to know proper armor ability usage, weapon placement, or have a steady sniping finger... but you'll never be competitive without it.
I don't necessarily have a problem with Easy Operation modes... I just don't really see the point, nor do I like to see wasted effort go into one. Fighting games are about execution. If you don't want to learn execution, play against other people who can't execute moves, or play a different genre.
DryEyeRelief said:
I couldn't think of anything else. Maybe should of wrote something about competitive PC FPS games like CS or Quake since I have more experience with high level play as opposed to chess, but people will bitch at me because fighting games aren't like them when in fact they are some what similar at high levels. I associate chess with Super Turbo a lot simply because execution isn't a huge factor. Combos are fairly simple, and normals are very good. It's a simplistic but deep fighting game that has lasted for over 15 years. I do one move, you have to do this or x will happen. There's many situations that you can read, and see possible outcomes before they actually happen. Of course ST has a few random factors that chess doesn't have.