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[Jobbs]

This guy man. Wow. I think I'm going to save this post as an example from now on as to how ridiculous society is right now. Offended because a game would dare show something titillating to its core demographic. Mah dude, you see each Quiet cutscene once and you don't even have to use her as a buddy. Offended at a little T&A though.

Titillating isn't the problem. Maybe I should save this post as an example of someone not understanding the objection.

You could have a game with full nudity and fucking with a moneyshot at the end and it could be done in such a way that wouldn't offend me. I doubt that will ever happen, but in theory, it could be done.

 

[Betty]

Titillating isn't the problem. Maybe I should save this post as an example of someone not understanding the objection.

You could have a game with full nudity and fucking with a moneyshot at the end and it could be done in such a way that wouldn't offend me. I doubt that will ever happen, but in theory, it could be done.

What if, in the future, objectification is equal?

As in, there is a DOAX game with guys and realistic, physic based dongs?

Would you be okay with it then?

Because I agree there is too much objectification against women, but if it were more equal across all media I'd have no issue with it.

 

[Jobbs]

What if, in the future, objectification is equal?

As in, there is a DOAX game with guys and realistic, physic based dongs?

Would you be okay with it then?

Because I agree there is too much objectification against women, but if it were more equal across all media I'd have no issue with it.

^ I think this is an overly simplistic view. The marginalization of women in games is an extension of the marginalization of women in real life.

I would think a physics wang all dude DOAX game would be pretty silly, but it's not equal for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is real life context and gender differences. Guys bouncing around in thongs would more than likely be mainly comedic. As far as I know (feel free to correct me) most women aren't primarily looking for games with guys and bouncing thongs.

I don't think anyone should be made to feel excluded or uncomfortable when they play a game, male or female, it just so happens that women face various sorts of gender discrimination in real life, throughout their lives, and having their games so frequently represent them in any of several demeaning tropes is just yet more bullshit for them to deal with.

Because of this, I think it's important for game makers to be proactive about having better female characters in games, and more representation for women in games in general. It's not because I think women deserve more than men, I think it's because they deserve the same as men.

 

[Moon_frogger]

In the future mainstream games will most likely have even more sex positive/sexually emancipated women characters like Quiet.

Perhaps even straight up graphic depictions of romance and sex itself.

I didn't find Quiet to be overtly objectified, and she definitely had more agency than most women ever have in real life.

As a person that studies Sociology and Gender Studies at a post graduate level for going on 13 years now, I have no issues with her, and I'm sure some would even call her a Feminist and strong woman character.

As we move into a less puritanical and more sex-positive society, I hope more people will come to not emotionally react with feelings of shame or embarrassment when they encounter a sexualized female body in a video game.
Personally, I've found that most of the people that find these types of things to be terribly offensive also have compounded radical/extremist views of human sexuality themselves and are mostly looking for an easy target to demonize.

There are much better Feminist causes to support and focus on than a silly fan service shower scene in a video game.

Hahaha yeah anybody criticizing quiet must be a radical extremist. Hahahahahaha

 

[Betty]

^ I think this is an overly simplistic view. The marginalization of women in games is an extension of the marginalization of women in real life.

I would think a physics wang all dude DOAX game would be pretty silly, but it's not equal for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is real life context and gender differences. Guys bouncing around in thongs would more than likely be mainly comedic. As far as I know (feel free to correct me) most women aren't primarily looking for games with guys and bouncing thongs.

I don't think anyone should be made to feel excluded or uncomfortable when they play a game, male or female, it just so happens that women face various sorts of gender discrimination in real life, throughout their lives, and having their games so frequently represent them in any of several demeaning tropes is just yet more bullshit for them to deal with.

Because of this, I think it's important for game makers to be proactive about having better female characters in games, and more representation for women in games in general. It's not because I think women deserve more than men, I think it's because they deserve the same as men.

Well MGS in general does have a ton of female characters, with some, like The Boss, being better than a lot of female characters out there, but sure, I can see how having more progressive female characters than not would be better in the long run.

 

[The Metal Face]

Well MGS in general does have a ton of female characters, with some, like The Boss, being better than a lot of female characters out there, but sure, I can see how having more progressive female characters than not would be better in the long run.

It's definitely better in the long run. But complaining about it and being upset because it's not in whatever game you happen to be playing is ridiculous. Every game can't and shouldn't be for everyone because that's what's ruining games (at least a lot of AAA games) currently. But that's an entirely different discussion.

 

[Jobbs]

Well MGS in general does have a ton of female characters, with some, like The Boss, being better than a lot of female characters out there, but sure, I can see how having more progressive female characters than not would be better in the long run.

It's hard for me to be specific about MGS3 since I haven't played it in a decade, but regardless what else he [Kojima] has done, my strong objection to Quiet remains the same. (Incidentally, I bought and played MGS5 -- Wanting to be part of large events in gaming is often a large factor in such purchases for me. I was a little uneasy with the costuming for Quiet prior to the game's release just due to the fact that it was so over the top, but I gave it a chance anyway)

 

[John Kowalski]

What if, in the future, objectification is equal?

As in, there is a DOAX game with guys and realistic, physic based dongs?

Would you be okay with it then?

Because I agree there is too much objectification against women, but if it were more equal across all media I'd have no issue with it.

You'd have no problem with something that is proven to have serious negative effects on people? For real? Yeah, it doesn't quite matter if sexual objectification impacts women's psychological health, if only men were made to suffer the same everything would be fine.

 

[The Wall]

Haha when does that shit happen. Gotta be filthy with maxed quiet affection? So bad

Good god, it's like Kojima wanted to test his talent at softcore hentai dating simulator. The shower requirements make me think what it takes to get a scared dog in the shower. She's like a pet sidekick. ¬_¬

 

[Polioliolio]

Titillating isn't the problem. Maybe I should save this post as an example of someone not understanding the objection.

You could have a game with full nudity and fucking with a moneyshot at the end and it could be done in such a way that wouldn't offend me. I doubt that will ever happen, but in theory, it could be done.

Wow. Is Quiet really worse than hardcore porn?

.. In an M rated game that's directed toward the male demographic?

.. In a series that previously had boss fights featuring sexy women who crawl toward you in skin right clothes and moan sexually as you are defeating them?

.. And in a series that even from the beginning had a photo mode where you take pictures of the female characters?

I can't speak for everyone, and we all have our own morals, but as a human being, sex is a part of my everyday life and is not secluded to the bedroom, where we are otherwise forbidden to discuss it.

Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Mael]

Wow. Is Quiet really that bad?

.. In an M rated game that's directed toward the male demographic?

Shittiest excuse ever.
Mature games should be...mature but I guess that's not how the industry describe it.
And considering we have 12yo and younger playing stuffs like GTA, we all know how pointless it is to say that kids are not part of the target demographic.

 

[Polioliolio]

Shittiest excuse ever.
Mature games should be...mature but I guess that's not how the industry describe it.
And considering we have 12yo and younger playing stuffs like GTA, we all know how pointless it is to say that kids are not part of the target demographic.

How is it an excuse? It's the same for any R rated movie or tv show, and I assure you, sexuality isn't abandoned in other forms of media, if you haven't noticed.

What's the point of ratings then? Should we abolish anything offensive in favor of saving children from having to see it?

This is all a bit silly.

Quiet is definitely a sexual character. Aside from not being your cup of tea, is there anything wrong with that in mature rated media?

 

[Mael]

How is it an excuse? It's the same for any R rated movie or tv show, and I assure you, sexuality isn't abandoned in other forms of media, if you haven't noticed.

What's the point of ratings then? Should we abolish anything offensive in favor of saving children from having to see it?

This is all a bit silly.

Quiet is definitely a sexual character. Aside from not being your cup of tea, is there anything wrong with that in mature rated media?

I wasn't commenting on Quiet per se but more that being a M rated game is absolutely no excuse for such blatant excuse of a character.
Since you brought up R rated movies or even movies to begin with, do you have an example of a movie actually R rated that features such massive excuse of a stripper in an otherwise tonally serious movie?
I don't mean a shower scene (because god knows shitty director tend to put that to try to stave off boredom in their crappy paced movie shaped sleeping pills) I mean a character that is essentially a pet, T&A for the other characters to gawk at and that's it.
I'll be here all day.

 

[RK128]

I wouldn't say she is the most embarrassing character but that is she is very baffling :l.

I mean, she is strong and gets stuff done in addition to being a great partner for Snake during missions (many on Gaf say she is one of the best partners to bring into the field with you). But, her outfit is just odd to me. She is naked more or less and while reason for this is explained

Spoiler

she breaths through her skin

, that is still silly. You don't see nose-holes all over our bodies after all.

If Quiet wore a less revealing outfit and had a voice (her not talking is just....odd too), people would have been more open to her and appreciating her character arc. But considering her design, not talking and her odd reasoning for her outfit, she was just distracting instead of interesting.

I recall that you can unlock a standard army outfit for Quiet and that should of been unlocked early in the game. Would of went a long way in making her character stronger in terms of design.

 

[Crossing Eden]

This guy man. Wow. I think I'm going to save this post as an example from now on as to how ridiculous society is right now. Offended because a game would dare show something titillating to its core demographic. Mah dude, you see each Quiet cutscene once and you don't even have to use her as a buddy. Offended at a little T&A though.

Sexualization during torture and rape scenes are what constitutes as "little" now. 95% of a character's scenes being sexualized is "little" now?
Also this shit:

It's definitely better in the long run. But complaining about it and being upset because it's not in whatever game you happen to be playing is ridiculous. Every game can't and shouldn't be for everyone because that's what's ruining games (at least a lot of AAA games) currently. But that's an entirely different discussion.

Games being more inclusive is in no way shape or form ruining video games.

You do realize some women really love being "gawked" at or "leered" at as the totalitarian extremists say and, in fact, become empowered by it, right?

It's purely foolish and unethical to sex shame both men and women because they enjoy the character portrayal of Quiet or the fanservice she provides.

And to stoop so low as to categorize all male sexual interest of Quiet's character in a broad fictional universe like MGS as "leering" or "almost raped" is just flat out unacademic and reactionary.

Might as well start a crusade against prostitution, webcam girls, twitch.tv streamers that sexualize themselves and flirt with their users for tips or anything else that you find personally offensive and uncomfortable due to whatever skewed ideas you have of academic sociological concepts that you never actually studied and whimsically decided to appropriate from pop social media like Tumblr.

Appropriation of feminist intersectionality concepts in unacademic ways like sex shaming has only served to push back feminism and reinforce toxic gender norms that were established by patriarchy in the first place.

Not only that but the young woman that was the model for the character of Quiet is probably deeply saddened and frightened by the backlash as well.

And that's not Feminist.

IMO, most of the posters in this thread need to stop obsessing about the faux feminist issues of the character of Quiet and worry about real issues like SEX TRAFFICKING, or HIV IN AFRICA, or, MICRO LOANS ONLY TO WOMEN IN POVERTY, etc.

If she wasn't an enjoyable character thematically or didn't contribute to the story that's a personal opinion and it doesn't need to be attached to a moral crusade. Many people loved her simply for the fanservice and if that's all she was in the end and the actress that portrayed her is fine with that then I'm just going to be happy with another great MGS game and not waste my time on a reactionary extremist minority opinon when bigger more important Feminist issues can be tackled.

My life partner really liked Quiet and she roleplays her quite often in the bedroom

I don't know where to start with this post...

 

[captainpat]

I wasn't commenting on Quiet per se but more that being a M rated game is absolutely no excuse for such blatant excuse of a character.
Since you brought up R rated movies or even movies to begin with, do you have an example of a movie actually R rated that features such massive excuse of a stripper in an otherwise tonally serious movie?
I don't mean a shower scene (because god knows shitty director tend to put that to try to stave off boredom in their crappy paced movie shaped sleeping pills) I mean a character that is essentially a pet, T&A for the other characters to gawk at and that's it.
I'll be here all day.

I could name quite a few. but the problem with your question is that most of the people who don't have issues with her design don't consider her to be a "pet".

 

[Henkka]

This is absolutely the grossest ever right?

That badass shot is undercut by the camera lingering on her boobies just before, though. Those other games are honest about what they're doing. Kojima expected you to actually feel something towards Quiet, making it more embarrassing.

I like to think of it like this: What did the developer intend for me to feel during this scene? Dead or Alive Extreme probably accomplishes what it sets out to do. It's casual, dumb titillation.

Now, what did Kojima want me to feel during the rain sequence? I have no idea. I mostly felt incredulous and yeah, a bit embarrassed. That probably wasn't the intention at all. Quiet is a failure of a character.

 

[Roubjon]

I don't know where to start with this post...

Yeah, it made my blood boil. I don't think there is a point in saying anything considering they will never listen. They have all those degrees and post-graduate education, they can't be wrong.

 

[captainpat]

That badass shot is undercut by the camera lingering on her boobies just before, though. Those other games are honest about what they're doing. Kojima expected you to actually feel something towards Quiet, making it more embarrassing.

That's hardly "lingering".

 

[Mael]

I could name quite a few. but the problem with your question is that most of the people who don't have issues with her design don't consider her to be a "pet".

I don't know I have a very cute pet that strangers always gawk at because he's so cute, he doesn't talk (truth is he barely bark to begin with) and he's trying to please me however he can.

Spoiler

Do I really need the /s tag?

 

[Henkka]

That's hardly "lingering".

Well I guess not, but it's such an out-of-place thing to put in there. I was pretty into the action sequence. It was violent and brutal. There's a very dark tone to the sequence, since it starts off with an attempted rape.

But then the tone suddenly goes from dark to goofy with the boob shot. It's just weird. I'm not saying it's like sexist or immoral or whatever, I don't really care. It's just pixels on a screen. But it didn't work for me at all.

 

[Betty]

Now, what did Kojima want me to feel during the rain sequence? I have no idea. I mostly felt incredulous and yeah, a bit embarrassed. That probably wasn't the intention at all. Quiet is a failure of a character.

Seriously?

She takes down a group of guys with ruthless vengeance and steps out rocking a pair of gigantic weapons, before HANDING you one to take on an army.

And you didn't know how to feel about that?

I felt like Quiet was a fucking badass and got my psyched up for the pretty damn tough mission that followed.

 

[RM8]

Lol I see we're already at the point of "if you don't like this impossibly tacky piece of fanservice you're an offended, extremist, misguided feminist". Nope, you can't possibly genuinely dislike Quiet! Fans of fanservice are terrible at dealing with different opinions.

 

[Henkka]

Seriously?

She takes down a group of guys with ruthless vengeance and steps out rocking a pair of gigantic weapons, before HANDING you one to take on an army.

And you didn't know how to feel about that?

I felt like Quiet was a fucking badass and got my psyched up for the pretty damn tough mission that followed.

I was talking about the rain sequence. That part isn't so bad, the out-of-place boob shot was just a bit weird.

 

[captainpat]

Lol I see we're already at the point of "if you don't like this impossibly tacky piece of fanservice you're an offended, extremist, misguided feminist". Nope, you can't possibly genuinely dislike Quiet! Fans of fanservice are terrible at dealing with different opinions.

The first post in this very thread basically said if you like Quiet you're a basement dweller.

 

[Endo Punk]

People are using some horrible false equivalences to justify Quite. Yes Konami sucks but that doesn't mean Koj didn't fuck up with the depiction of women in the game when he represented them far better in the past. Context people!

 

[Mael]

The first post in this very thread basically said if you like Quiet you're a basement dweller.

Good thing the 1rst post is the Trump of Gaf saying loudly everything we all thought but were too afraid to say, amirite?

 

[captainpat]

Good thing the 1rst post is the Trump of Gaf saying loudly everything we all thought but were too afraid to say, amirite?

???

 

[KJRS_1993]

Excruciating how some people can think that a mid-torture scene zoom titty shot could ever be considered "appropriate as the game is M Rated" or described as "harmless titillation".

It's not a question of taste. That shit is obscene.

 

[RM8]

The first post in this very thread basically said if you like Quiet you're a basement dweller.

So let's dismiss all criticism of Quiet!

 

[Crossing Eden]

Lol I see we're already at the point of "if you don't like this impossibly tacky piece of fanservice you're an offended, extremist, misguided feminist". Nope, you can't possibly genuinely dislike Quiet! Fans of fanservice are terrible at dealing with different opinions.

We were at that point a long time ago. You missed the terribly misplaced use of the word puritan.

Yeah, it made my blood boil. I don't think there is a point in saying anything considering they will never listen. They have all those degrees and post-graduate education, they can't be wrong.

And ofc a wife.

 

[Radical Edward]

Quiet is definitely fanservice but she is a pretty strong character who can hold her own. I missed her when she was gone and I thought her final scenes were really well done. Wasn't particularily offended by her and neither were any of my girl friends. Some thought she was badass and others thought her outfit was silly but took no offense. Itwould be interesting to see how much of this argument is a North American thing and how many of the people saying Quiet is the worst are men vs women. Not slamming anyone's opinion, just think it would be interesting. Personally, I find the typical Disney Princess or damsel in distress far more embarrassing and so do most of my women friends.

 

[kamineko]

My life partner really liked Quiet and she roleplays her quite often in the bedroom

congrats on the sex, dude

 

[sensui-tomo]

I've completely lost where this thread is at, are we talking about worst character in gaming or complaining that some individuals in this thread can't be civil and resort to name calling / creepers? Again I put my vote for that one female in Deus ex human revolution in Detroit as the most embarrassing thing ( that I've seen, dumb fan service in a series that's excelled in fan service didn't pull me out like it did in deus ex, but I can see how it pulls some people out.)
Or the cast of custards revenge.... But that game isn't serious. Also I'm surprised "that game" on the last page was even referenced... Hell it was banned in Japan iirc recently.(4 years ago I think)

 

[Cipherr]

So I haven't play this game yet, but she looks ridiculous.

https://youtu.be/VQvyv8iHGkQ

Did anyone post this video of Quiet showering in a cage as men moan and make sexual comments about her? That is probably the most objectifying thing I've seen in a game.

Holy christ I am laughing myself into a fit over here.

 

[Polioliolio]

Can you imagine if the gender roles were completely swapped about this situation.

Imagine what it would be like if groups of women on the internet were judging the camera angles on a sexualized male character, which were doing a lingering focus on the underside of his pectorals or thighs, and how it's just the most embarrassing character they've ever seen, and actually worse than porn, because at least then they would know what they were getting into, but the idea of such a character showing up in mature rated entertainment is simply too inappropriate. Meanwhile other women are saying 'What exactly is the big deal? I think he's an attractive and strong character.. Not hiding any sexiness, but I like him'.

Suddenly the idea seems deflated.

I too would like to know if this outrage is carried on more by men or women.
Seems like a bunch of guys are overly worried, with most women just shrugging it off.

I could be wrong, but that's the impression I perceive here. Most of us are men, right? Any women in this thread?

It would be interesting to know anyway.

 

[kamineko]

Can you imagine if the gender roles were completely swapped about this situation.

Imagine what it would be like if groups of women on the internet were judging the camera angles on a sexualized male character, which were doing a lingering focus on the underside of his pectorals or thighs, and how it's just the most embarrassing character they've ever seen, and actually worse than porn, because at least then they would know what they were getting into, but the idea of such a character showing up in mature rated entertainment is simply too inappropriate. Meanwhile other women are saying 'What exactly is the big deal? I think he's an attractive and strong character.. Not hiding any sexiness, but I like him'.

Suddenly the idea seems deflated.

I too would like to know if this outrage is carried on more by men or women.
Seems like a bunch of guys are overly worried, with most women just shrugging it off.

I could be wrong, but that's the impression I perceive here. Most of us are men, right? Any women in this thread?

It would be interesting to know anyway.

Maybe you could find a comparable AAA release that contains a scene like the one you describe. Then we could compare apples to apples.

 

[Mael]

Most of us are men, right? Any women in this thread?

It would be interesting to know anyway.

This is very revealing...

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Can you imagine if the gender roles were completely swapped about this situation.

Imagine what it would be like if groups of women on the internet were judging the camera angles on a sexualized male character, which were doing a lingering focus on the underside of his pectorals or thighs, and how it's just the most embarrassing character they've ever seen, and actually worse than porn, because at least then they would know what they were getting into, but the idea of such a character showing up in mature rated entertainment is simply too inappropriate. Meanwhile other women are saying 'What exactly is the big deal? I think he's an attractive and strong character.. Not hiding any sexiness, but I like him'.

Suddenly the idea seems deflated.

I too would like to know if this outrage is carried on more by men or women.
Seems like a bunch of guys are overly worried, with most women just shrugging it off.

I could be wrong, but that's the impression I perceive here. Most of us are men, right? Any women in this thread?

It would be interesting to know anyway.

No way in hell a male version of Quiet would have ever made it past the gate in a high profile game like this. It would have automatically made the entire game be deemed "vulgar" and/or "gay." There probably wouldn't even be a nearly large enough defence force for it to make room for this debate in the first place if the tables were flipped like that.

As covered previously in the thread, I just wish they owned up to what the super obvious intentions with Quiet are, instead of pretending. Would have made it all feel way less forced and contrived.

 

[Zaptruder]

If the ladies want to perv on some fan servicey male, then all the more power to them.

I'd think it was hilarious, and a great change in the norm of things.

This thread by and large though... that's the real embarassment. Basically a bunch of people trying to convince everyone else that the character is vile embarassing, evil shit that shouldn't be tolerated in this day and age.

I can get that some people won't like it... but the whole moral crusade to normalize that opinion is to me pretty fucking gross.

 

[Polioliolio]

Maybe you could find a comparable AAA release that contains a scene like the one you describe. Then we could compare apples to apples.

Well what is this about exactly. Is it just too edgy for you and crossed the line?

I haven't played these next games, but I've seen cutscenes.. Dragon Age, Witcher 3... now that looks like sex for sex sake (actual intercourse, not just titillation), and boy does it look awkward and embarrassing. Quiet might be eye candy, but she's sexy because she's also a strong and interesting character, also, Kojima and team are just good at mo-cap and emotions.

Dragon Age and Witcher 3 look a lot like those books I used to see lying around my grandma's house, except with puppets. It looks ridiculous. Not that I'm offended. I'm just not impressed.

 

[Mental Atrophy]

I can make my horse take a shit on my face in this game. Some torn up lingerie means nothing to me.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

Here's some food for thought for the "anti-PC", "don't censor my games", "it's just titties, are you prude or what", etc. crowd here. While Quiet is decried by evil "SJWs" and co., Bayonetta isn't nearly as much despite being a lot more overtly sexualised. Why would that be?

EDIT: Also, what's up with the word "offended" being used in about half of the posts? Do people not know what that word means anymore, or is it just a weak attempt at destroying the credibility of opposing viewpoints?

 

[Radical Edward]

Here's some food for thought for the "anti-PC", "don't censor my games", "it's just titties, are you prude or what", etc. crowd here. While Quiet is decried by evil "SJWs" and co., Bayonetta isn't nearly as much despite being a lot more overtly sexualised. Why would that be?

Because Bayonetta also sucks a lollipop

 

[captainpat]

Here's some food for thought for the "anti-PC", "don't censor my games", "it's just titties, are you prude or what", etc. crowd here. While Quiet is decried by evil "SJWs" and co., Bayonetta isn't nearly as much despite being a lot more overtly sexualised. Why would that be?

Because the games she's in sold like shit.

 

[TatteredHat]

I'm actually playing MGS5 now, and it's kind of a shame because Quiet's actual character is pretty interesting, but the outfit is so out of place.

 

[Mael]

Because the games she's in sold like shit.

That didn' t stop Polygon.
And seeing how now she's part of the biggest fighting game you would think that if she was a problem they would act now or something.
That is if the SJW censors are as powerful as they claim.

 

[Jobbs]

No matter how many times I explain "the context and treatment of female characters within a game is what is potentially offensive, not the mere existence of a sexy outfit" no one seems to understand or listen, so I won't further the discussion here. I give up.

 

[Radical Edward]

I'm actually playing MGS5 now, and it's kind of a shame because Quiet's actual character is pretty interesting, but the outfit is so out of place.

There is an option to change it. I wasn't offended by her in the slightest but I liked her other costumes more.

 

[Tain]

Because the games she's in sold like shit.

Ask anybody writing thinkpieces on gender in games if they're familiar with Bayonetta.

They are.

edit:

it's kind of a shame because Quiet's actual character is pretty interesting, but the outfit is so out of place.

this is where I'm at