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[speculawyer]

I just wonder how many of these non gamers are going ot buy a wii a few games then throw it in the closet? I mean games sells in NA havn't been that great. Even more so for 3rd parties.

Pretty sure that will happen. That is why they are called 'non gamers'. Nintendo was very wise to sell their box at profit since they were appealing to a lot of 'non gamers' who will not a lot of games. Just look at the console software chart compared to the console hardware chart . . . more Wii games should be selling . . . but it is the more traditional gamers with their 360s & PS2s that are buying console software.

This is why I think it would be a big mistake for 3rd parties to move heavily toward the Wii . . . you want to make software for a platform that sells software, not a platform that sells a lot of hardware but little software (other than 1st party titles). (Some re-allocation toward Wii would be advised but not too much.)

 

[speculawyer]

Exactly. 'Kiddy' games are only viewed as immature amongst certain internet video game forum-goers. In the real world, a 'kiddy' game like Wii Sports draws far less eye-rolling from hot girls than something like Gears of War.

I use the words differently . . . mario, Wii Sports, Banjo-Kazooie, Zelda . . . those are 'all-ages' games.

Happy Feet, Avatar: Last Airbender, Jimmy Neutron, etc. (mostly crappy licensed stuff) . . . those are 'kiddy' games.

Big difference.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Pretty sure that will happen. That is why they are called 'non gamers'. Nintendo was very wise to sell their box at profit since they were appealing to a lot of 'non gamers' who will not a lot of games. Just look at the console software chart compared to the console hardware chart . . . more Wii games should be selling . . . but it is the more traditional gamers with their 360s & PS2s that are buying console software.

This is why I think it would be a big mistake for 3rd parties to move heavily toward the Wii . . . you want to make software for a platform that sells software, not a platform that sells a lot of hardware but little software (other than 1st party titles). (Some re-allocation toward Wii would be advised but not too much.)

The thing is, if they moved heavily towards the Wii, consumers would move heavily towards the Wii.

They want their games.

 

[Deku]

I really don't know. It's such an abstract question about demographics where the entire onus on disproving the claim is on the person making the response. Suffice to say 3rd parties are moving heavily into Wii and they can afford to do so because everything else is doing even worse, especially in Japan.

 

[Jokeropia]

I just wonder how many of these non gamers are going ot buy a wii a few games then throw it in the closet? I mean games sells in NA havn't been that great. Even more so for 3rd parties.

Uh, this is actually completely false on all counts. Wii has a very solid tie-ratio, several third party games have sold well (unlike on the PS3) and the only precedent for non gamers there is (the DS) shows that they don't just throw the system in the closet. (DS has a great tie-ratio for a handheld.)

 

[Saint Gregory]

Pretty sure that will happen. That is why they are called 'non gamers'. Nintendo was very wise to sell their box at profit since they were appealing to a lot of 'non gamers' who will not a lot of games. Just look at the console software chart compared to the console hardware chart . . . more Wii games should be selling . . . but it is the more traditional gamers with their 360s & PS2s that are buying console software.

This is why I think it would be a big mistake for 3rd parties to move heavily toward the Wii . . . you want to make software for a platform that sells software, not a platform that sells a lot of hardware but little software (other than 1st party titles). (Some re-allocation toward Wii would be advised but not too much.)

That couldn't be because the Wii comes with a great game... it just couldn't.

On a side note, I had lunch with a friend today at the local mall and we were sitting across from a Gamestop. He looked over and saw the Wii display in the window and told me he really wants to get one but $250 is too expensive for a game machine. I kid you not.

 

[sprocket]

The thing is, if they moved heavily towards the Wii, consumers would move heavily towards the Wii.

They want their games.

Besides a few big series like Final Fantasy , and GT most of the biggest selling games are always new IPS every gen. Its who ever happens to have those new games.

 

[Deku]

Besides a few big series like Final Fantasy , and GT most of the biggest selling games are always new IPS every gen. Its who ever happens to have those new games.

Well at this rate, Wii will probably get a lot of them.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Besides a few big series like Final Fantasy , and GT most of the biggest selling games are always new IPS every gen. Its who ever happens to have those new games.

The dominant console gets those games (accept for the first party ones, of course).

 

[Bildi]

I use the words differently . . . mario, Wii Sports, Banjo-Kazooie, Zelda . . . those are 'all-ages' games.

Happy Feet, Avatar: Last Airbender, Jimmy Neutron, etc. (mostly crappy licensed stuff) . . . those are 'kiddy' games.

Big difference.

This is definitely how the term 'kiddy' should be used. As in, games designed for young children and games that adults really wouldn't get any enjoyment out of.

 

[Mar]

I love the mature games / mature consoles argument.

Breasts and explosions = teh mature. OMG guys look how old I am, I'm raping this ho then popping some caps in this white dudes ass! 15 year olds the world over wish they were me!

In other news. God I wish the 360 would get a good price cut soon. Not only do I think it needs it to bolster sales. But I want to damn well buy one.

 

[mj1108]

I don't personally think that this deserves its own thread, so I'll post it here:

Game publishers buffeted by Nintendo's big April

This whole argument is just hilarioius.

First it's "Nintendo needs 3rd party support! They really need it to make their system successful"

Now that 3rd parties are making games for it, it's seen as a bad thing.

Make up your ****ing minds.

EDIT: Why in the hell has the "Kiddy" thing taken on life again?? Is the Sony camp so out of spin that they are grasping at any straws they can?

 

[titiklabingapat]

To further put more fuel into the fire, Infendo made this graph to comapre the first 6 months of this and last gen:
http://www.infendo.com/gamecube/wii-outsells-the-mighty-ps2-for-the-same-period/

Not sure where they got thier data for the others but i'm assuming they used NPD data for the Wii/PS3/360.

 

[Eteric Rice]

I love the mature games / mature consoles argument.

Breasts and explosions = teh mature. OMG guys look how old I am, I'm raping this ho then popping some caps in this white dudes ass! 15 year olds the world over wish they were me!

In other news. God I wish the 360 would get a good price cut soon. Not only do I think it needs it to bolster sales. But I want to damn well buy one.

Even with Halo 3 and a price drop, I have to wonder if it could keep that boost up. I mean, I know it would boost it and beat the Wii sales.

But would it last from then on out?

 

[Dragona Akehi]

To further put more fuel into the fire, Infendo made this graph to comapre the first 6 months of this and last gen:

http://www.infendo.com/gamecube/wii-outsells-the-mighty-ps2-for-the-same-period/

Not sure where they got thier data for the others but i'm assuming they used NPD data for the Wii/PS3/360.

If you don't know where the numbers come from, I wouldn't post it for fear of being ioi's bannable ones. The numbers in the original link's look a little iffy off the top of my head...

 

[Beer Monkey]

The problem with looking at the first six months is that some of the systems were truly supply-constrained during that period, and they may have sold much higher otherwise.

 

[titiklabingapat]

If you don't know where the numbers come from, I wouldn't post it for fear of being ioi's bannable ones. The numbers in the original link's look a little iffy off the top of my head...

Oh, ok, sorry about that. I'll edit my post out.

I edited the picture out, but I left the link if it is permissible. I'll edit it out if it isn't.

 

[Grecco]

I just wonder how many of these non gamers are going ot buy a wii a few games then throw it in the closet? I mean games sells in NA havn't been that great. Even more so for 3rd parties.

What the hell is "games sells"

If your talking about how Software is doing? Its fantastic. Super Paper Mario Did spectacular numbers. Third Parties are being rewarded with numbers superior to their PS3 numbers and this is with minimal investment in development and advertisement. In a couple of months were going to see much larger third party software being released and they will have a much bigger installed base to find sales. Its fantastic. Could be better sure. But its hardly a problem at this point.

 

[Projectjustice]

Japanese hardware sales were down considerably for the week of May 6th through the 13th, especially on the Nintendo DS and Wii fronts. The previous week saw a big boost in DS Lite sales as gamers snapped up the handheld to play Final Fantasy XII Revenant Wings. PSP sales held strong amidst dropping numbers, presumably due to the release of Final Fantasy Tactics: The Lion War.

PLAYSTATION 3 hardware took a hit, stumbling into four-figure sales territory, while the rest of the field performed mostly as it has for months. Here's the sales breakdown, courtesy of Media Create.

* Nintendo DS Lite - 163,785
* Wii - 52,544
* PSP - 34,433
* PlayStation 2 - 10,414
* PLAYSTATION 3 - 8,839
* Xbox 360 - 2,105
* Game Boy micro - 408
* Game Boy Advance SP - 343
Man, I sure hope Japanese PS3 owners hear the good news about this week's Joust trailer hitting the PlayStation Store. That should spur some sales! Michael McWhertor

http://kotaku.com/gaming/only-in-japan/simple-2000-the-japanese-hardware-chart-261717.php

lol

 

[Bildi]

Oh, ok, sorry about that. I'll edit my post out.

I edited the picture out, but I left the link if it is permissible. I'll edit it out if it isn't.

The numbers for current gen seem OK and based on NPD numbers which are:

Wii 2.47mil
360 1.51mil
PS3 1.27mil

Their 360 figure looks like 1.4 million or something so it seems too low.

 

[unomas]

As a Wii owner, I love my Wii but am astonished by it's chart performance so far. As a retailer, TO THIS DAY our shipments are sold out minutes/hours after receiving them. Especially when compared to the Gamecube, I'm astonished.

This has all been done without a huge showcase game, at least IMO. There's a couple of great "games," as in Zelda and Super Paper Mario, both of which the controller is an after thought, meaning in all honesty, they could be made on other systems without losing a step (including the GameCube). There's also a few first party games that use the controller's potential, but more in a demo fashion (mini games like Wii Play, Wii Sports, and Wario Ware.)

For me, the nicest feature of the Wii has been the Virtual Console, I love downloading old games and reliving my childhood.

I'm an old school Nintendo fan (ever since the NES) and am enjoying their current wave of popularity... but I have to think that unless they put out something substantial soon, a real AAA game that looks good and plays better and uses the system's features, that their good fortune won't last forever. Right now it feels like neat gimmicks, nostaligia, and Gamecube ports winning the crowds over, but they have to step up to the plate now.

I agree completely with this post. Couldn't have said it better myself, at some point the AAA titles need to start rolling out to keep it going. Without the software whats currently getting it by won't last forever.

 

[Branduil]

The problem with looking at the first six months is that some of the systems were truly supply-constrained during that period, and they may have sold much higher otherwise.

The Wii isn't supply-constrained?

 

[laserbeam]

The Wii isn't supply-constrained?

Im a huge wii fan so its not trolling but im starting to think its not so much supply constrained as it is demand too damn high.

Its shipped a million more then the 360 did in its first 6 months and well we see the gap between it and the PS3.

I think were just truly seeing a System with demand so high Supply is an issue no matter what they pump out I know that can be called constrained supply but overall if demand was as low as the others they'd be oversupplied i think

 

[Juwanna Peezadis]

Im a huge wii fan so its not trolling but im starting to think its not so much supply constrained as it is demand too damn high.

That's totally what supply constrained means. Demand>Supply = Supply constrained/shortage.

 

[Beer Monkey]

The Wii isn't supply-constrained?

Yep, so were the PS2 and the 360. Comparative first-six-month graphs would look very different if all of these systems were in ready supply, and honestly we don't know exactly how they would look other than different.

 

[laserbeam]

Now for something else. Reported Numbers coming out of Germany from a German Website

Hardware sales April 2007:

1. Nintendo Wii - 20,000
2. Playstation 3 -16,000
3. Xbox 360 - 9,500

Total hardware sales:
1. Xbox 360 - 262,000 (Since December 2005)
2. Nintendo Wii - 222,000 (Since December 2006)
3. Playstation 3 - 70,500 (Since March 2007)

http://www.xbox360only.nl/nieuwsitem.php?nid=5834

 

[Popstar]

.

 

[laserbeam]

That would make the German market slightly smaller than the Canadian market even though Germany has around 2 1/2 times the population. Can any Germans comment on if that sounds correct?

Canada:
Wii 42.1k
360 12.8k
PS3 7.2k

numbers are official found a non fansite source

http://de.biz.yahoo.com/18052007/85/nintendo-erfolgreichem-wii-start-deutschland-eurams.html

 

[Eteric Rice]

The Wii is growing.

Nothing can stop it! :O

 

[speculawyer]

I have a HDTV and a PS3 but then again i have a high joint income

Drug dealer?

 

[justchris]

I feel like reviving an old argument, so here goes.

I think the idea that 3rd parties can't compete with Nintendo on Nintendo hardware is specious. For comparison, look at the highest selling game on the GCN, it was SSBM at ~6 million. Now, look at all the games on the PS2 (which had 4+ times the install base) that matched or exceeded it in sales. I'll give you the list:

GTA: Vice City
GTA: San Andreas
Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec
GTA3
MGS2: Sons of Liberty
Kingdom Hearts
Final Fantasy X

Seven games, , one of them first party, and they're the only ones that really compared with Nintendo 1st party titles on the GCN, even though they had a greater install base to sell to.

The conclusion is, you're competing against Nintendo, whether you release your game for a Nintendo system or not. Unless you're the newest phenom on the block (GTA), Nintendo is always going to beat you. Hell, the DS has a little over 1/3 the userbase of the PS2, and it's already got 1 game that's outsold any one of those, and a few others that are right around in that area of ~6 million. Nintendo's 1st party games just have greater appeal than the majority of games made by anyone else. Not selling your games on the Wii is not going to change that, and your sales on the Wii aren't going to be cannibalized by Nintendo games any more on the Wii than they would be if you released them for any other system.

 

[Eteric Rice]

I feel like reviving an old argument, so here goes.

I think the idea that 3rd parties can't compete with Nintendo on Nintendo hardware is specious. For comparison, look at the highest selling game on the GCN, it was SSBM at ~6 million. Now, look at all the games on the PS2 (which had 4+ times the install base) that matched or exceeded it in sales. I'll give you the list:

GTA: Vice City
GTA: San Andreas
Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec
GTA3
MGS2: Sons of Liberty
Kingdom Hearts
Final Fantasy X

Seven games, , one of them first party, and they're the only ones that really compared with Nintendo 1st party titles on the GCN, even though they had a greater install base to sell to.

The conclusion is, you're competing against Nintendo, whether you release your game for a Nintendo system or not. Unless you're the newest phenom on the block (GTA), Nintendo is always going to beat you. Hell, the DS has a little over 1/3 the userbase of the PS2, and it's already got 1 game that's outsold any one of those, and a few others that are right around in that area of ~6 million. Nintendo's 1st party games just have greater appeal than the majority of games made by anyone else. Not selling your games on the Wii is not going to change that, and your sales on the Wii aren't going to be cannibalized by Nintendo games any more on the Wii than they would be if you released them for any other system.

I think another problem is price. Games like Okami get released for $39.99, but things like "The Godfather" which is a PORT (well done one, though), cost $49.99 when I can get it on the PS2 for like $19.99.

 

[koam]

It seems like stores here are FORCING Wii bundles. Futureshop only sells the Wii in bundles now which include their shitty 3 year warranty. Why would someone buy a warranty on a nintendo console?

I noticed they have three bundles, didn't pay attention to the pricing but i saw that it was a Wii, a Controller, a $59.99 game and the warranty.

They've increased the price by $10 on their website (this has been for a while though) and it's always sold out:
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/pr...D0D0B5C62CBDE&sku_id=0665000FS10080745&catid=

 

[Sharp]

I'm also confused about the "Wii software doesn't sell" argument, except possibly in Japan. Even ignoring the first-party software dominating the top of the charts this month, it doesn't seem like any third-party games but Spider-Man 3 (whose Wii version was officially a huge steaming pile of shit) and Guitar-Hero 2 (which doesn't have a Wii version) were in the top ten. I think the new audience Nintendo is going for does not care inherently whether the titles it buys are from Nintendo or another developer, so long as they look entertaining.

One could argue that "the PS3 doesn't sell software," but that would be beating a dead horse and we know the reason for that: the install base. And one could easily argue "the 360 sells a crazy amount of software," which is true, and a good point to focus on: third parties aren't going to be abandoning the 360 anytime soon. But neither does it make sense for them to turn a blind eye to the Wii, especially companies like EA for whom the opportunity to keep working in SD for another 5-6 years and still sell better than ever is like mana from heaven.

 

[Eteric Rice]

I'm also confused about the "Wii software doesn't sell" argument, except possibly in Japan. Even ignoring the first-party software dominating the top of the charts this month, it doesn't seem like any third-party games but Spider-Man 3 (whose Wii version was officially a huge steaming pile of shit) and Guitar-Hero 2 (which doesn't have a Wii version) were in the top ten. I think the new audience Nintendo is going for does not care inherently whether the titles it buys are from Nintendo or another developer, so long as they look entertaining.

One could argue that "the PS3 doesn't sell software," but that would be beating a dead horse and we know the reason for that: the install base. And one could easily argue "the 360 sells a crazy amount of software," which is true, and a good point to focus on: third parties aren't going to be abandoning the 360 anytime soon. But neither does it make sense for them to turn a blind eye to the Wii, especially companies like EA for whom the opportunity to keep working in SD for another 5-6 years and still sell better than ever is like mana from heaven.

*shrugs*

All I want are JRPGs. Maybe the occasional adventure game and platformer.

 

[SouthernDragon]

On the JRPG note, I would have been so happy with Odin Sphere on the Wii. It looks so nice.

 

[Eteric Rice]

On the JRPG note, I would have been so happy with Odin Sphere on the Wii. It looks so nice.

I just want Atlus and Square-Enix to support the Wii. I hear they're busy on a PS3 project right now, though.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I'm also confused about the "Wii software doesn't sell" argument, except possibly in Japan. Even ignoring the first-party software dominating the top of the charts this month, it doesn't seem like any third-party games but Spider-Man 3 (whose Wii version was officially a huge steaming pile of shit) and Guitar-Hero 2 (which doesn't have a Wii version) were in the top ten. I think the new audience Nintendo is going for does not care inherently whether the titles it buys are from Nintendo or another developer, so long as they look entertaining.

I'm confused about it because it's not true. The Wii has two million "sellers" (Wii Sports and Zelda), Wii Play is at 900k, Rayman, Wario, Super Paper Mario and Red Steel are all above 300k, Madden, Monkey Ball, and Call of Duty are all around or just below 300k, and I've got 9 other games above 100k.

19 games out of ~60 above 100k is certainly not terrible, especially when the bottom end is made up of Disney licences and World Series of Poker.

 

[laserbeam]

I'm confused about it because it's not true. The Wii has two million "sellers" (Wii Sports and Zelda), Wii Play is at 900k, Rayman, Wario, Super Paper Mario and Red Steel are all above 300k, Madden, Monkey Ball, and Call of Duty are all around or just below 300k, and I've got 9 other games above 100k.

19 games out of ~60 above 100k is certainly not terrible, especially when the bottom end is made up of Disney licences and World Series of Poker.

Red Steel and Rayman are both approaching million seller status with both over 900K i do believe

 

[Deku]

To all those bitter about the Wii sales in relation to the 360 or PS3: you're creating your own drama. It was your choice to pick up a 360 or PS3 so early on. Either you can enjoy what you have and what you're getting, or you can whine because you weren't thinking clearly. Again, it's your choice.

 

[Father_Brain]

Red Steel and Rayman are both approaching million seller status with both over 900K i do believe

I believe those numbers are worldwide, though. Still not bad.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Red Steel and Rayman are both approaching million seller status with both over 900K i do believe

We're discussing American numbers, not worldwide. Rayman and Red Steel are both above 300k and below 400k in the US.

 

[SouthernDragon]

Atlus is working on the PS3?

Damn it. I like Trauma Center, so I'm willing to give Odin Sphere and their other products more of a chance.

Actually, it'd be more accurate to say I am -very- impressed by Trauma Center and would gladly purchase another quality product from them.

 

[Sharp]

I think Atlus said that it didn't have enough money to work on the PS3 at the moment, so unless they're doing a PSN game I doubt it. Atlus tends to work best with platforms with high install bases, like the PS2 and DS.

 

[justchris]

I think another problem is price. Games like Okami get released for $39.99, but things like "The Godfather" which is a PORT (well done one, though), cost $49.99 when I can get it on the PS2 for like $19.99.

In any buying decision, there are three things that an general consumer considers. Price, Value & Brand. (An enthusiast considers the same things, but for an enthusiast, they are not rated equally, they are for a general consumer.)

If two of those are equal, the 3rd becomes the deciding factor. At the moment, the Wii Brand is strong, it has the Price advantage, and it has a greater perceived value due to the Wiimote. In the case of the Godfather, brand is equal (Wii is popular but PS2 won last generation), Value is equal (because they're the same game, even if they're played differently, all people really see is the name of the game), so Price becomes the determine factor. Had EA advertised the Wii version in preference to the PS2 version (like they did with Tiger Woods 07) it would have made a difference in the value perception, and it might have done better. There's a limit to how much marketing $ you can expect to be spent on a port, though.

 

[Feep]

Posting in legendary thread.

Also showing not-as-important Japanese Hardware Sales for the week, because I wrote the post at the following link, and since GAF decides if things fail or not, I was curious.

Japanese Hardware Sales: Office Space edition

 

[fernoca]

Again, we have to remember:

SPIDER-MAN 3 WAS RELEASED ON MAY 3RD

The charts are from April, which means that the few SM3 sales that made it to the top 10 are mostly from preorders..

The Wii version was confirmed at 36,000 copies sold in those charts from April (by IGN)...which is not bad at all, consisiting merely in preorders.

 

[Xavien]

Posting in legendary thread.

Don't do that, we know you are posting in this thread, you don't have to proclaim it for all to see.

 

[Feep]

It was more like weak justification for promoting my own work, which is rather lame.

 

[marvelharvey]

It was more like weak justification for promoting my own work, which is rather lame.

Promoting your own site AND using the phrase 'posting in a legendary thread' on GAF = thin ice