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Official bitching about Hudson abandoning VC support. [VC/WiiWare = lost cause]

P

ph33nix

MWO
jarrod said:
Neither Mario 64 or Mario Kart were an always stable 30 fps, both dropped below it at times. They evidently don't do that anymore... have you played either on the Virtual Console?

Both games definitely have improvements going beyond a simple resolution bump.
Click to expand...

When I played with 4 players, it was still a bit laggy but much improved...doesn't seem like 30 FPS though.
 
N

ninjaurbano

Member
wsippel said:
The Saturn wasn't that powerful, but insanely complex hardware. And complexity is more of a problem than raw performance. Still, Nintendo not only has professional coders working on the emulators, they also have exact design specs of the original hardware, as well as sourcecodes and official SDKs. It's next to impossible for the homebrew emu scene to create comparable emulators.


Care to elaborate? VC emulation is perfect for all systems but N64, there's no more room for improvements. Games look exactly the same, sound exactly the same, and play exactly the same. Online play and such would be nice, of course, but that has nothing to do with the emulation.
Click to expand...


I really doubt Nintendo cares about hardware accuracy. As long as the game plays, it's good enough. I doubt people would notice the difference, anyway.

See how buggy the N64 emulation was on that Gamecube Zelda Collection disk.
 
J

jarrod

Banned
ninjaurbano said:
I really doubt Nintendo cares about hardware accuracy. As long as the game plays, it's good enough. I doubt people would notice the difference, anyway.

See how buggy the N64 emulation was on that Gamecube Zelda Collection disk.
Click to expand...
Zelda Collector's Disc = NST

Virtual Console = EAD

...I don't see the point in really bringing it up even though? Nintendo pretty clearly cares about emulation accuracy given that VC games come with their own uniquely tailored emulator with each download. Plus they're even updating software releases with tweaks after the fact (Mario Kart 64, Military Madness). A bonus disc giveaway 3-4 years back really shouldn't be an indicator for what Nintendo's intentions are for their premium download service today... really, you should just download Mario 64 on your Wii and see for yourself.
 
W

wsippel

Banned
ninjaurbano said:
I really doubt Nintendo cares about hardware accuracy. As long as the game plays, it's good enough. I doubt people would notice the difference, anyway.
Click to expand...
Sure. Then again, maybe not. As far as I can tell, the system installs only one emulator per system, not one per game. So that one emulator binary needs to emulate several games, and therefore needs to be as accurate as possible. And like I said, Nintendo has ressources the homebrew scene simply hasn't: Manpower and (even more important) SDKs, exact specs, and hardware documentation.

See how buggy the N64 emulation was on that Gamecube Zelda Collection disk.
Click to expand...
True. But I doubt it's the same emulator VC uses. It was a quick hack to support a single game, never designed to run lots of different games.
 
J

jarrod

Banned
wsippel said:
Sure. Then again, maybe not. As far as I can tell, the system installs only one emulator per system, not one per game.
Click to expand...
Er... I thought that was disproven already? If not, why not simply preinstall all the emulators out of the box and save on bandwidth? And why then do games take up noticably more space than direct ROM dumps (manuals?)?
 
W

wsippel

Banned
jarrod said:
Er... I thought that was disproven already? If not, why not simply preinstall all the emulators out of the box and save on bandwidth? And why then do games take up noticably more space than direct ROM dumps (manuals?)?
Click to expand...
The fact that system doesn't know up front how many blocks the game will need made me wonder. Oh well, maybe it's really one emulator per game. Makes sense, given that there were specific updates for Military Madness and Mario Kart. I doubt they updated the ROMs, so they obviously updated the emulators for those games. My bad, sorry...
 
N

ninjaurbano

Member
Look, I'm sure that the emulation of Mario 64 and Mario Kart is very good. But both were playable when UltraHLE was released (28th January 1999). They are simple to emulate, unlike a lot of others N64 games.

You cant use this as an indication that Wii can run more complex games at fullspeed. It's not an easy task, even for Nintendo.

The fact that there are only two games available speaks for itself.
 
P

Pikelet

Member
You cant use this as an indication that Wii can run more complex games at fullspeed.
Click to expand...
And you cant use the homebrew scene who have no where near the resources or manpower of Nintendo as an indication that games emulation cant be better than what it is now.
 
N

ninjaurbano

Member
Pikelet said:
And you cant use the homebrew scene who have no where near the resources or manpower of Nintendo as an indication that games emulation cant be better than what it is now.
Click to expand...

OK. Time will tell if you are right (but expect to wait a lot).
 
C

CB3

intangibles, motherfucker
jeremy1456 said:
When exactly are new Virtual Console games usually added?

Midnight? Noon?
Click to expand...

I think someone said before that they come in at 9AM Pacific time. So Noon Eastern
 
P

PiccoloCube

Banned
i would like to see the N64 games boosted to 60 fps eventually through an update. maybe when they add stuff to them like online play for MK64.
 
P

Pud

Banned
BatiGOOOOOOL said:
So, is there any chance DKC will be released soon?
Click to expand...

Probably tomorrow. (Well today... 8 hours from now)

60 FPS Starfox (SNES) PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE. I'd pay the N64 price for that.
Click to expand...

You must've enjoyed a taste of that in WarioWare Smooth Moves :lol
 
B

BatiGOOOOOOL

Member
I meant in the US Wii Shop, so I hope you're right Pud. I have 1800 points left and if it doesn't come out tomorrow I'll end up blowing them on Gunntar Heroes, Ristar or CVIV.
 
J

JoshuaJSlone

Member
Pachinko said:
I second that N64 motion, I mean how many games could they possibly want to put up there. That 40-60 number seems way off. You got mario, zelda, mario kart, zelda MM, starfox 64, paper mario, F-zero64, Excitebike 64, 1080 snowboarding, waverace, pilotwings, super smash brothers and possibly diddy kong racing. That's 12 , maybe 13 games tops.
Click to expand...
We live in a world where one update consisted solely of NES's Baseball and Urban Champion. Why would they suddenly go all quality control and only release the very top tier N64 games?
 
MaddenNFL64

MaddenNFL64

Member
Will Nintendo ever 'fix' the way SD cards are used with the Wii? Constantly deleting & uploading to the internal flash mem is just dumb. Why not just read off the sd card for saves, VC games, hell maybe demos one day.
 
P

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
MaddenNFL64 said:
Will Nintendo ever 'fix' the way SD cards are used with the Wii? Constantly deleting & uploading to the internal flash mem is just dumb. Why not just read off the sd card for saves, VC games, hell maybe demos one day.
Click to expand...

Nintendo is too afraid of potential MISHANDLING by dirty pirates to allow such a thing.

The thing is, you cannot download the VC games to the SD and copy them on another Wii and expect them to work as they are tied to the Wii they have been downloaded from, so why are they so afraid of execution from SD is unclear to me. The checks the Wii might do on the content of the SD card before or while copying it to Wii Flash memory could not just be executed WHILE LOADING the content in RAM as you launch the VC game from the SD ?

Bah...
 
N

NintenDonut

Member
So, I've played the Adventure Islands on NES but never New Adventure Island. Is it the same thing (run right and throw hammers, with a dinosaur or two)? How hard is it? (the original was crazy hard)
 
SonicMegaDrive

SonicMegaDrive

Member
NintenDonut said:
So, I've played the Adventure Islands on NES but never New Adventure Island. Is it the same thing (run right and throw hammers, with a dinosaur or two)? How hard is it? (the original was crazy hard)
Click to expand...

It's mostly like the very first Adventure Island. There's no dinosaurs, but there's other minor improvements.

I think it's one of the best in the Adventure Island series, personally.
 
A

angelfly

Member
I'll definitely be getting New Adventure Island, DKC, and Streets of Rage. Anyone here play Legend of Kage? What game plays similar to it?
 
SonicMegaDrive

SonicMegaDrive

Member
angelfly said:
I'll definitely be getting New Adventure Island, DKC, and Streets of Rage. Anyone here play Legend of Kage? What game plays similar to it?
Click to expand...

Demon Sword :)

But seriously, Legend of Kage has aged pretty badly(it was originally released way back in 1986).

I wouldn't even put it in the 'classics' category.

But still, it's a little unique.

If I could describe it...it's 'Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon', with early NES-type graphics and dodgy hit collision/detection.


btw, not related to anyone in particular, but I just want to get this over with.

It's prounced "KAH-GAY". Not "Cage".

Thanks.
 
G

Glass Joe

Member
not to sound like a complainer, but Nintendo's release strategy confuses me. First they release a bunch of shooters at once, and now a bunch of platformers. It seems mixing genres on a weekly basis would be more effective than having a game like New Adventure Island pitted against Donkey Kong Country and the newly released Super Mario World.

How has Streets Of Rage aged? As a SNES-guy back in the day, I'm somewhat interested. Does it feel somewhat essential or rather generic?
 
SonicMegaDrive

SonicMegaDrive

Member
Glass Joe said:
not to sound like a complainer, but Nintendo's release strategy confuses me. First they release a bunch of shooters at once, and now a bunch of platformers. It seems mixing genres on a weekly basis would be more effective than having a game like New Adventure Island pitted against Donkey Kong Country and the newly released Super Mario World.

How has Streets Of Rage aged? As a SNES-guy back in the day, I'm somewhat interested. Does it feel somewhat essential or rather generic?
Click to expand...

Essential.

At heart, it's a Final Fight rip-off, except...better.

No SNES beat-em-up can match it...'cept maybe Turtles.
 
J

jarrod

Banned
ninjaurbano said:
Look, I'm sure that the emulation of Mario 64 and Mario Kart is very good. But both were playable when UltraHLE was released (28th January 1999). They are simple to emulate, unlike a lot of others N64 games.

You cant use this as an indication that Wii can run more complex games at fullspeed. It's not an easy task, even for Nintendo.

The fact that there are only two games available speaks for itself.
Click to expand...
The thing is, it's not that these games are just emulated well... they're basically perfected. They run better than on N64, on day one... they might be among the simpler N64 projects to get up and running, but that in itself doesn't imply any sort of incapability for Nintendo to get more complex titles up and running either. Considering the documentation, resources, hardware and key people available to the Virtual Console service, there's not too much room to doubt they could probably get about any N64 title running flawlessly on Wii... even titles using complex compression techniques or microcode (Battle for Naboo, Resident Evil 2, etc).

The fact that there's only 2 N64 games available (4 planned by the end of Q1) speaks more to Nintendo's scheduling more than anything I'd say though.
 
B

brandonh83

Banned
I need to get caught up on my VC games... I did get Kid Icarus and Contra 3 but I still need Mario Kart and Super Mario World. But fl0w and Tekken: Dark Resurrection are hitting the PSN this week so I'll probably get those first before getting DKC or Streets of Rage (only because I've played both of those to death).
 
C

Conrad Link

Member
VC KICKS ASS! :D

<3 <3 <3

Adventure Island!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To be honest I could have just done with that this week and saved DKC for next week to get excited over, but I guess I can just pretend its been delayed another week. :lol

I was planning on skipping SOR1 and waiting for 2, but this update has made me happy so maybe I'll end up getting all 3.

Adventure Island!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now time to go back to anticipating Dragon's Curse and Devil's Crush!
 
N

NintenDonut

Member
What I really want is that 4 player SNES beat-em-up, Peace Keepers. I never had the 4player adapter, so never experienced its full glory.

665494.jpg


And speaking of Multi-Tap games (list here)... Looney Tunes B-Ball is the greatest basketball game evar

665083.jpg
 
B

beelzebozo

Jealous Bastard
in case anyone representing nintendo is reading this, i'll be more than happy to buy every single beat 'em up you would be so kind as to throw up on vc. this includes streets of rage, final fight, simpsons, x-men, tmnt, etc.--even more than the point and click adventure squad who keeps begging for its return, i weep for the fate of the arcade beat 'em up.
 
G

gkryhewy

Member
beelzebozo said:
simpsons
Click to expand...

I don't think there's a console version of that, unfortunately. But I've already done my part in buying Golden Axe. You can add those sweet capcom D&D games to your list as well (at least I think they were beat-em-ups; they're more legend than memory for my part).
 
S

Shard

XBLAnnoyance
SonicMegaDrive said:
Essential.

At heart, it's a Final Fight rip-off, except...better.

No SNES beat-em-up can match it...'cept maybe Turtles.
Click to expand...


Indeed though the sequels are so much better and make the first game feel so stiff and outmoded by comparison.
 
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