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Official Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep (PSP) Import thread of Convoluted Nonsense

Dogenzaka

Banned
I'm kind of surprised as to why Pocahontas isn't in the game, and I really think, for how she acted throughout her movies, she has a much purer heart than say, Alice. Who isn't even royalty. Who happened to rebelliously run away from an English lecture and fall down a rabbit hole.

I think her world would be really interesting. Like a mix between Peter Pan and Tarzan. You could have an epic Radcliffe boss battle, like Captain Hook. And Pocahontas would make a really interesting Princess of Heart (what with her hippie sense of care for all people and creatures) with some interesting powers in-battle...

"I WILL PAINT YOU WITH THE COLORS OF THE WIND"
*torrential twister of wind and leaves knocks foes away into oblivion, Team Rocket-style*

I guess it's just too much to ask lol.
 

duckroll

Member
I will honestly prefer it if they simply do away with party members in future KH games. I don't feel they are really required anymore. That's not to saw there shouldn't be battles with AI partners, but make it more event based and unique like in BbS, rather than putting Donald and Goofy to tag along without really helping much. I can totally understand why they were required originally, not only to give a good amount of Disney identity to the gameplay, but also because the game was so ghetto that if you didn't have Donald casting spells and healing you, and Goofy distracting dumbfucks while you ran around them and took them out, the game would be pretty much unplayable. But the series has evolved a lot since then, and it is no longer required. What I would prefer is for every world to have different AI partners instead, which is something they sort of explored in some of the worlds in KH2 and BbS. It makes it a lot more fun and interactive when it feels like you're playing WITH Disney characters in each world, rather than just seeing them in cutscenes. With good character building and a robust mix of skills, there is no reason why the player needs two fixed party members following him around all the time. Let's have some variety!
 
Vrakanox said:
Yeah, ironically enough I've thought of the exact same thing. The only question being who Kairi would be paired up with. Riku and Mickey go well together. Sora, Donald, Goofy. Kairi and....
Stitch? Magic & brawn. And he's supposed to be as popular (or at least sell as much) as the "core" Disney characters, right?

Dogenzaka said:
I'm kind of surprised as to why Pocahontas isn't in the game, and I really think, for how she acted throughout her movies, she has a much purer heart than say, Alice. Who isn't even royalty. Who happened to rebelliously run away from an English lecture and fall down a rabbit hole.
The creators try to choose worlds that would offer different experiences from each other. They already had a "forest" level in the form of Tarzan, and in terms of cast and environment, they might've found Pocahontas to be one of the plainer ones.

Honestly, if they hadn't decided to make her a party member, or decided to follow the movie more closely in the first game, they would have probably picked Ariel as the other Princess of Heart. As it played out, though, they needed another girl and another world, and "Alice in Wonderland" made for a more fun one. The shrinking/growing potions, the oddball physics, the imagery itself, and the colorful cast.
 

duckroll

Member
Dogenzaka said:
Haha what?

I think keeping party members ADDS gameplay variety. Trekking it solo is pretty badass, but also pretty stale in my opinion.

No. It doesn't add any variety because Donald and Goofy always have the same skills. This never changes and you can't do anything about it. They're just fixed characters following you around doing the same thing over and over. And when Donald and Goofy have certain skills, it makes it less appealing for the player to use the same skills because they're already "taking care of it" so to speak. Instead if you remove the party members, the player character's customization becomes much more important and focused. Having a different guest partner in each world will add a lot more variety to battles when the complementary gameplay in each world is different from the last, and the player is also encouraged to experiment with what sort of build to make the main character, and what sort of skills and spells to use.
 
Dogenzaka said:
Haha what?
EDIT: Nevermind, Duckroll explained.

I also kinda like badcrumble's idea. If the "multiple character" thing is done again in the future, maybe Sora could always have Donald & Goofy, Riku could always have Mickey, and Kairi could team up with world-specific partners. To add to what duckroll was getting at, each partner could be given skills that are unique to them, and overall add to the group. So unique spells for Donald, special effects from Goofy, etc.
 

Dogenzaka

Banned
duckroll said:
No. It doesn't add any variety because Donald and Goofy always have the same skills. This never changes and you can't do anything about it. They're just fixed characters following you around doing the same thing over and over. And when Donald and Goofy have certain skills, it makes it less appealing for the player to use the same skills because they're already "taking care of it" so to speak. Instead if you remove the party members, the player character's customization becomes much more important and focused. Having a different guest partner in each world will add a lot more variety to battles when the complementary gameplay in each world is different from the last, and the player is also encouraged to experiment with what sort of build to make the main character, and what sort of skills and spells to use.

Having 3 different members in battle is more varied than having 1 person in battle.

You also play the same main character that has the same skills for the entirety of the game's length. Would you argue that that is also stale? :l

I think it works the way it is. Party members + guest party members per world...as usual. The game already has "guest members" from each world. Since the first game.

What you're essentially asking is that they unnecessarily remove Donald and Goofy to add "variety". :lol :lol
 

duckroll

Member
Dogenzaka said:
Having 3 different members in battle is more varied than having 1 person in battle.

You also play the same main character that has the same skills for the entirety of the game's length. Would you argue that that is also stale? :l

I think it works the way it is. Party members + guest party members per world...as usual. The game already has "guest members" from each world. Since the first game.

What you're essentially asking is that they unnecessarily remove Donald and Goofy to add "variety". :lol :lol

No, you don't understand what I'm saying at all. There isn't really any "variety" in having Donald and Goofy follow you around in the entire game with the same attacks, and because they're using those attacks you'll generally only use certain attacks as Sora to complement it. It becomes repetitive after a while, and you're just doing the same thing over and over.

CoM and BbS completely changes this dynamic by empowering the player with TONS more options in terms of attacks, spells, abilities, etc with the only limitation being an equipped deck. Which means you pick from a pool of skills to determine how your single character fights at any given time, and you can keep changing it up as the game progresses depending on your play style and what new abilities you have gained. With a fully customizable player character, there is no need for a permanent party.

Instead the "party" would change with each world, with different Disney characters partnering you in certain worlds or certain battles, and they would have attacks and special skills would be unique and not attainable normally. This keeps the gameplay pace much more varied and interesting, and makes the interaction in each world unique and more fun. It means you don't have to manage a "party" at all in terms of levels and equipment, and just focus on the character you control, while letting the game automatically handle what partners you get in the story.
 
Dogenzaka said:
Having 3 different members in battle is more varied than having 1 person in battle.
It really depends on the skill set. Donald is a good example: his only skills are his magic, but they're exactly the same as your magic. I think he's even limited to Fire, Blizzard, Thunder and Cure family spells in the second game. This unfortunately means that while the character itself is fun, his role in gameplay can be kinda redundant.

Goofy, meanwhile, only has three unique skills, and their effectiveness could be questionable.

For the two to stand out, Donald would need useful, unique spells, and the same goes for Goofy. And they would need to grow and evolve significantly more then they do now.

You also play the same main character that has the same skills for the entirety of the game's length. Would you argue that that is also stale? :l
Well, the difference is that if you're a single player, your skills are going to change. You'll pick up more spells, more special attacks, etc. Your combat skills continue to become more varied. It doesn't get stale the same way action games don't (or at least, aren't supposed to) get stale.
 

Dogenzaka

Banned
duckroll said:
No, you don't understand what I'm saying at all. There isn't really any "variety" in having Donald and Goofy follow you around in the entire game with the same attacks, and because they're using those attacks you'll generally only use certain attacks as Sora to complement it. It becomes repetitive after a while, and you're just doing the same thing over and over.

CoM and BbS completely changes this dynamic by empowering the player with TONS more options in terms of attacks, spells, abilities, etc with the only limitation being an equipped deck. Which means you pick from a pool of skills to determine how your single character fights at any given time, and you can keep changing it up as the game progresses depending on your play style and what new abilities you have gained. With a fully customizable player character, there is no need for a permanent party.

Instead the "party" would change with each world, with different Disney characters partnering you in certain worlds or certain battles, and they would have attacks and special skills would be unique and not attainable normally. This keeps the gameplay pace much more varied and interesting, and makes the interaction in each world unique and more fun. It means you don't have to manage a "party" at all in terms of levels and equipment, and just focus on the character you control, while letting the game automatically handle what partners you get in the story.

OH I see what you're saying. I thought you meant like, remove the party system altogether and just add in a new Disney character everytime you go to a Disney world.

You just want a different set of allies everytime you visit a new world? I can deal with that.
 

duckroll

Member
Dogenzaka said:
OH I see what you're saying. I thought you meant like, remove the party system altogether and just add in a new Disney character everytime you go to a Disney world.

You just want a different set of allies everytime you visit a new world? I can deal with that.

Basically what I'm saying is, while the concept of the "party system" is sound (having other characters fight with you in battles), the way it is applied in KH and KH2 is just not that great. It's really hard to express how well I feel something like BbS works without some of you playing it first. Whether you agree or disagree will of course depend on how you feel about the battle system in the game.

I think to put it in crude terms, yes I think that Donald and Goofy suck balls as party members, and they make the game more boring than it should be because they hold Sora back and make him boring to play too. BbS shows that when you strip all that out and rethink about how "partners" can work. Let's be honest, in KH and KH2, pretty much NO ONE would take out Donald or Goofy and put in the guest characters, because a) it takes effort to go into the menu, b) you want the permanent party members to gain all the exp, c) they weren't that great anyway.

To me, playing with Donald and Goofy feels like I'm being forced to take siblings out with me when I go shopping or something, and I would probably be able to do things faster and better without them around since I don't have to "hold back". At the same time, I have no problem with going shopping with friends who I know can keep up with me, and actually provide meaningful interaction. Damn, I'm really starting to sound like a Donald and Goofy hater now, I better stop before Mickey revokes my Disney fan card. :(
 

seady

Member
O man this is the best official game thread ever. :lol

I beat the first game and the Gameboy game. The first game made some sense, but the GBA game made me "huh?".

Then I played the Kingdom Hearts 2, first 3 hours of it with the kids part and a little into Sora. Then I just had to give up with its nonsense.

The gameplay wasn't that fun to begin with - mostly button smashing. When the story is just as bad, you know you shouldn't waste time on it. But apparently many people disagree with me as the sale of the series is still so high.
 

MAtgS

Member
Party A: Sora, Riku, Kairi
Party B: Mickey, Donald, Goofy

I mean, duh that should be fairly obvious.
 
duckroll said:
Basically what I'm saying is, while the concept of the "party system" is sound (having other characters fight with you in battles), the way it is applied in KH and KH2 is just not that great. It's really hard to express how well I feel something like BbS works without some of you playing it first. Whether you agree or disagree will of course depend on how you feel about the battle system in the game.

I think to put it in crude terms, yes I think that Donald and Goofy suck balls as party members, and they make the game more boring than it should be because they hold Sora back and make him boring to play too. BbS shows that when you strip all that out and rethink about how "partners" can work. Let's be honest, in KH and KH2, pretty much NO ONE would take out Donald or Goofy and put in the guest characters, because a) it takes effort to go into the menu, b) you want the permanent party members to gain all the exp, c) they weren't that great anyway.

To me, playing with Donald and Goofy feels like I'm being forced to take siblings out with me when I go shopping or something, and I would probably be able to do things faster and better without them around since I don't have to "hold back". At the same time, I have no problem with going shopping with friends who I know can keep up with me, and actually provide meaningful interaction. Damn, I'm really starting to sound like a Donald and Goofy hater now, I better stop before Mickey revokes my Disney fan card. :(

I never cared for my ai character in kh games, whether it's donald/goofy or world secific characters. can you heal them if you want? because I never care when they're dead or in critical hp. I just let them die, they'll wake up later eventually.

the way I see it, Nomura can just discard party system altogether or really rework the party mechanic to make it more useful.

personally, I think the way the party is handled in kh 1&2 is a bit too hands off. I'd appreciate it if I have more control so I can throw specific command to them. maybe order them to target specific enemy. or watch heal my main character. or, for the rare moment where you have to protect a guest character, told Donal and Goofy to protect the guest character instead while I just tear through the enemy.

also, having their own unique skill set or even skilltree will be great so I can decide how they grow. maybe I want Donald to be offensive mage with lots of powerful offensive spell, or maybe have him as support mages with buff / debuff spell ready at the start of battle.

that kind of thing.
 

duckroll

Member
I just had a thought. Since Re:CoM and BbS were by S-E Osaka, and since they did such a good job. If they ever handle a KH game set in the Sora era which spans multiple worlds, I would like for them to revamp the Gummi Ship concept into a horizontal shooter ala Einhander. The routes between worlds would be fixed stages with bosses. Wouldn't that be awesome? :eek:
 

Kingsora

Would rather have no penis than have to show his to a medical professional
duckroll said:
I just had a thought. Since Re:CoM and BbS were by S-E Osaka, and since they did such a good job. If they ever handle a KH game set in the Sora era which spans multiple worlds, I would like for them to revamp the Gummi Ship concept into a horizontal shooter ala Einhander. The routes between worlds would be fixed stages with bosses. Wouldn't that be awesome? :eek:
No gummi ships sucks =P

Btw I always wondered why you had to switch a party member in a new world, why couldn't the Disney character just be the 4 party member...

Anyhow is BBS just as censored as KH2? If you have seen the Potc movie and then played the Pirates level in KH2, you'll know what I mean.
 
You know, I'm interested in picking this one up. How does it stack up to the other games in the series? KH 1 was always my favorite. So easy and simple to understand compared to KH II :lol
 

duckroll

Member
Kingsora said:
Anyhow is BBS just as censored as KH2? If you have seen the Potc movie and then played the Pirates level in KH2, you'll know what I mean.

I have no idea what you're talking about. There are totally guns in the PotC world in my KH2! :lol
 

Jangaroo

Always the tag bridesmaid, never the tag bride.
duckroll said:
I have no idea what you're talking about. There are totally guns in the PotC world in my KH2! :lol
They totally censored KH2 for the American release. Not that they were that big of a deal.

Wikipedia said:
Besides typical English translation and localization, the English version of Kingdom Hearts II differs from the original Japanese version in the content of gameplay and several scenes. The Hydra boss in the Hercules-themed world Olympus Coliseum had its green blood from the original Japanese version (which was taken from the film) changed into black and purple smoke in the English version. There is also a scene in Disney Castle where, after chasing Donald around for missing a date, Daisy Duck pounds him on the backside in the Japanese version while she merely tells him off inaudibly in the English version.

Xigbar's telescopic sight was changed from a crosshair and black shading around the sides to three glowing circles.[7] An attack animation was also altered; in the Japanese version, Xigbar combined his two hand-held guns to create a sniper rifle, which was used to shoot the player's party during the telescoping sight sequence. In the English version, Xigbar does not combine his guns, but twirls them around and shoots at Sora with a single gun. The death of Organization XIII member Axel was slightly edited; in the original, he burst into flames during his suicide attack, while in the English version he simply faded away after using up all of his power.

Port Royal, based on Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl, contains the most content edits. Cutscenes were edited to remove some of the violence, such as William Turner threatening to commit suicide while aiming a gun at his head, as in the film.[7] Unlike the Japanese version, the undead Pirates do not catch fire when affected by Fire magic and their muskets were modified to resemble crossbows,[32] though the crossbows still fire with an audible musket shot sound effect. Also, in the Japanese version of the game, blood remains on the medallion throughout the game, while in the edited cutscenes, the blood is only shown when Barbossa drops it into the chest. In another instance, when Jack Sparrow is stabbed by Barbossa, Barbossa's sword is seen sticking out of his chest as he stumbles backwards into the moonlight, but the sword is removed in the English version.
 

Dogenzaka

Banned
Btw I always wondered why you had to switch a party member in a new world, why couldn't the Disney character just be the 4 party member...

Balance.

seady said:
O man this is the best official game thread ever. :lol

I beat the first game and the Gameboy game. The first game made some sense, but the GBA game made me "huh?".

Then I played the Kingdom Hearts 2, first 3 hours of it with the kids part and a little into Sora. Then I just had to give up with its nonsense.

The gameplay wasn't that fun to begin with - mostly button smashing. When the story is just as bad, you know you shouldn't waste time on it. But apparently many people disagree with me as the sale of the series is still so high.

Yeah um dude the story isn't that hard to understand, lol.

I never cared for my ai character in kh games, whether it's donald/goofy or world secific characters. can you heal them if you want? because I never care when they're dead or in critical hp. I just let them die, they'll wake up later eventually.

the way I see it, Nomura can just discard party system altogether or really rework the party mechanic to make it more useful.

personally, I think the way the party is handled in kh 1&2 is a bit too hands off. I'd appreciate it if I have more control so I can throw specific command to them. maybe order them to target specific enemy. or watch heal my main character. or, for the rare moment where you have to protect a guest character, told Donal and Goofy to protect the guest character instead while I just tear through the enemy.

also, having their own unique skill set or even skilltree will be great so I can decide how they grow. maybe I want Donald to be offensive mage with lots of powerful offensive spell, or maybe have him as support mages with buff / debuff spell ready at the start of battle.

that kind of thing.

There was a rumor (that ended up being false) about FFVersusXIII's battle system. Where you and your party battle in real-time like Kingdom Hearts, and your party members are controlled by AI. However, at any time, you can switch to control one of your party members, and the last character you were now becomes AI.

So you can switch seamlessly between your party members and the other 2-3 become AI characters.

I think that's a pretty cool idea to give more control...in theory...but the AI would need a ridiculous overhaul in intelligence to not make it frustrating.
 
Jangaroo said:
They totally censored KH2 for the American release. Not that they were that big of a deal.

Which is weird since one of the roulette spins during the Oogie Boogie boss battle in KH1 involves shooting you with completely uncensored guns.
 

duckroll

Member
Fimbulvetr said:
Which is weird since one of the roulette spins during the Oogie Boogie boss battle in KH1 involves shooting you with completely uncensored guns.

I think the problem is mostly with human characters using firearms. It's probably more related to attaining an E10+ rating, rather than Disney not wanting certain things to be seen. Disney just doesn't want a KH game to be rated T.
 

Kingsora

Would rather have no penis than have to show his to a medical professional
My EU KH2 version is 12+ but is still censored o_O Anyhow it looked so stupid when Barbossa stabbed Jack with a sword and you didn't see anything, also when Will said, "You'll need me Barbossa" and instead of pointing his gun to his head, he points it at Barbossa and then no one :lol

Also are their more NPC characters in KH: BBS? It really bugs me that worlds in KH and KH2 were often so empty, I am replaying KH2 right now and almost in every world that problem is there.

e.g. the Mulan world, how difficult can it be to add maybe 15 extra soldiers. the maybe you have an army of 22 soldiers but it still is more than an army than 7 soldiers.

Agrabah: Where are the people?? Agrabah is a gigantic city and their are only living 3 or 4 people. Yet again how difficult can it be to add some NPCs

Twilight Town, Traverse Town, Radiant Garden: Yes I know that their are NPCs but in one section is the highest 3 humans, I am not asking for AC crowded, but FF crowded can't be that difficult to add.
 

duckroll

Member
Kingsora said:
Also are their more NPC characters in KH: BBS? It really bugs me that worlds in KH and KH2 were often so empty, I am replaying KH2 right now and almost in every world that problem is there.

That's just how the games are designed. They're action RPGs, so most of the worlds are filled with combat and enemies. BbS is the same.
 
duckroll said:
I will honestly prefer it if they simply do away with party members in future KH games. I don't feel they are really required anymore. That's not to saw there shouldn't be battles with AI partners, but make it more event based and unique like in BbS, rather than putting Donald and Goofy to tag along without really helping much. I can totally understand why they were required originally, not only to give a good amount of Disney identity to the gameplay, but also because the game was so ghetto that if you didn't have Donald casting spells and healing you, and Goofy distracting dumbfucks while you ran around them and took them out, the game would be pretty much unplayable. But the series has evolved a lot since then, and it is no longer required. What I would prefer is for every world to have different AI partners instead, which is something they sort of explored in some of the worlds in KH2 and BbS. It makes it a lot more fun and interactive when it feels like you're playing WITH Disney characters in each world, rather than just seeing them in cutscenes. With good character building and a robust mix of skills, there is no reason why the player needs two fixed party members following him around all the time. Let's have some variety!
I missed out on this discussion, but I do like the sound of this (unless, as I said earlier, they could have Sora+Riku+Kairi as your party and have them each be fun to control rather than half-powered assistants). KH2's ending DOES leave things open for this sort of possibility, given that Donald and Goofy went back home to Disney Castle. I don't know what Riku or Kairi will be doing in the next game, but it's quite possible that they could make Sora journey out on his own a bit more as he becomes a Keyblade Master (weak parallels with Star Wars here, I suppose?)

Removing leveling/equipment from the assistant characters if they were guest-only would be nice, too - it'd really simplify things in a positive way, I feel.

If they REALLY wanted to make things interesting, they'd make each world play pretty dramatically differently based on your partner - have Aladdin involve a lot of cooperative platforming, having your partner leap out and grab your arm or leaping out to grab theirs, for example, so it wouldn't just be Peter Pan (with flying) that played differently (assuming we never, ever go back to a playable Atlantica). That'd require a good bit of extra polish and imagination, but it'd do a lot to make the Disney portions of the game far more memorable. I suspect Nomura cares a whole lot more about the Kingdom Hearts plot side of things than the Disney bits, though.
 

duckroll

Member
Pureauthor said:
Okay, most of it wasn't that bad. Except for Under the Sea. Ow, my ears.

.....I...... liked it...... :(

In my defense, I think I'm tone deaf, or maybe even completely deaf...
 
Pureauthor said:
Okay, most of it wasn't that bad. Except for Under the Sea. Ow, my ears.

LIES!

Finny Fun was dumb and the final song was abysmal.

Who thought it was a good idea to have Sora and crew sing?
 

duckroll

Member
I have an illness. Instead of playing something else, I started a new game with Terra on Proud Mode. I'm 2 hours in now, and after skipping all the cutscenes I've cleared 3 worlds, almost at lvl18, maxed all the d-links so far, and I found every single chest. Looks like replays are going to be much faster than I imagined, I might actually complete the entire game in Proud Mode and unlock the Secret Ending properly! :lol
 
Is all that simply because you know the game that much better?

If skill matters as much to your progression as stats, that's an excellent sign.
 

duckroll

Member
Maybe? Honestly I have no idea. When I play this game, I no longer feel like I'm playing a game. I feel like I'm in a virtual cage created by Nomura filled with tiny crumbs all over which I'm compelled to go after for no reason. Save me... :(
 
duckroll said:
I will honestly prefer it if they simply do away with party members in future KH games. I don't feel they are really required anymore. That's not to saw there shouldn't be battles with AI partners, but make it more event based and unique like in BbS, rather than putting Donald and Goofy to tag along without really helping much.

I agree. Especially in Kingdom Hearts II, I never really needed Donald or Goofy. I always focused on making Sora as strong as possible. I would give strong spells to Donald or good equipment to Goofy, but I usually just let them go off on their own. I think just having AI partners for each world, such as Auron in the Underworld, would be best. I'd rather just focus on the main player character, anyway.
 

duckroll

Member
So, Kingdom Hearts Coded has officially ended with Episode 8. As expected, the ending ties in with BbS, especially the secret ending of BbS. The direction the next KH game is going to take is really obvious now.
 
duckroll said:
So, Kingdom Hearts Coded has officially ended with Episode 8. As expected, the ending ties in with BbS, especially the secret ending of BbS. The direction the next KH game is going to take is really obvious now.
Post spoilers for those of us who won't get to play it please!
 

duckroll

Member
badcrumble said:
Post spoilers for those of us who won't get to play it please!

Well, I'll break it down like this:

358/2 days - Covers Roxas entire back story, his relationship with the Organization, and all the missing gaps from KH2 regarding his story. I'm sure it covers some other shit too, for those who could withstand the gameplay to keep playing. :(

Birth by Sleep - Covers the origin of the current Kingdom Hearts continuity, explains the motivations of the villain, the nature of Kingdom Hearts, the conflicts set up long before KH1 started, the nature of the keyblade, and various nudgenudgewinkwinks on the direction of destiny.

Coded - Covers Mickey's story between the main ending of KH2 and the final scene in KH2. Basically it explains Mickey discovering some inconsistencies in the Journal, and then exploring into it digitally to discover something which results in him writing the letter to Sora.


All 3 games fill in important gaps in the KH world mythology which are probably important to enough to have to be explained before the next KH game. Kinda like how Nomura felt the need to introduce Castle Oblivion and the Organization XIII in Chain of Memories before KH2. That doesn't mean the next game is KH3 though, it just means that at the point of writing KH2, Nomura's brain was so overwhelmed with ideas (mostly bad) that he could not express them in just one game, but needed 5 games over the span of 7 years to complete the story. :lol


It's not really worth spoiling Coded though, because it just confirms what BbS' secret ending already implies very strongly. Spoiling one would spoil the other! :lol
 
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