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[Sumio Mondo]

This is something Square/Sakimoto nailed with FFXII. The music of the field was not interrupted by battle, which contrasts pretty starkly with Xenoblade (a game people often consider a similar-playing title). Sakimoto (and co) composed themes that cover the full spectrum of required sentiment...you have your bombastic adventurey parts, the danger/combat, quiet/thoughtfulness/contemplation, etc. Stuff like the Giza Plains, Phon Coast, Ozmone Plains, etc. are really masterful in how they hold up over hundreds of hours of play.

Pretty much. The sound design all over for FFXII was top notch. No battle transitions at all definitely helped in this case, though. Don't get why Xenoblade really needed battle themes when it could just play the beautiful field/dungeon themes instead.

.Hack's way of doing it was cool too, ambient field/dungeon themes that get more pumped up when you're fighting enemies.

 

[Selane]

That feel when someone is complaining about the repetitiveness of Cold Steel's battle music but not the repetitiveness of its combat voice acting.

My turn!
It's my turn!
Here I go!
My turn!
It's my turn MY TURN MY TURN MY TURN jesus christ please kill me



Seriously though, depends on how good the music is. When I played Trails in the Sky SC, I didn't like the battle music so I replaced it with another Falcom tune(First Step Towards Wars) and it had the effect of making me seek out every battle I could just to hear the music.

 

[Not_Mario]

For whatever reason in the first Xenoblade I don't really notice the regular battle music until you get to the point where Mechanical Rhythm starts playing. I guess Time to Fight is just comparatively mellow and your shouting party members drown it out. Or maybe regular encounters are just over really quickly and often other battle music cuts in over it.

 

[dramatis]

FFXIII-2 had this.

It didn't.

What 13-2 had was 'stages' of music.

Field music -> Encounter pops, running music -> Enter battle, battle track

All three tracks are quite different from each other.

The kind of 'adaptive music' used in Resonance of Fate is where the tracks actually use the same 'song' but one is composed to be a different version of the other. The game determines the current state: is there some action going on, or is the player currently slowed down and making decisions? And then the game switches between tracks accordingly.

Listen to 10 seconds of this Back Alley [A] and then 10 seconds of this Back Alley and you'll understand what I'm talking about. Both are used in a fight: when the player is in 'rest state' and assessing the situation without engaging in actions, Back Alley [A] plays. When the player initiates actions, the game segues into the appropriate matching section of Back Alley .

There's an explainer from Game Maker's Toolkit about this.

 

[djtiesto]

I haven't played Cold Steel yet but damn, that battle song is 1000x better than the smooth jazz/elevator battle music from the TITS games.

I do like when games' battle themes are dynamic based on the field area the characters are currently in. Like the Resonance of Fate example for instance. Especially since hearing the same song for 50+ hours gets old fast, no battle theme is THAT good.

 

[KeyChainDude]

I agree completely. I can't stand FFX, to this date that fucking glass breaking effect followed by the trumphets of the battle theme haunts my dreams. NNNNGGGGGHHHH

 

[RK128]

I don't know man, if the Battle Theme is fantastic, then I love having them in my RPG's .

More so if the boss fights or major battle have unique battle themes; that really makes them feel 'important' and 'grand'. But I can understand your point though, they do drown out the main dungeon or field map theme.

 

[Mexen]

I agree completely. I can't stand FFX, to this date that fucking glass breaking effect followed by the trumphets of the battle theme haunts my dreams. NNNNGGGGGHHHH

Best battle theme ever!

 

[Lucky Seven]

All they have to do is have an option to turn off the switch to the battle music. That's all, and probably not that hard to do. Fire Emblem used to have battle themes, until they made the switch to just map themes and a more upbeat map theme during battle.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Oh sweet, a thread where people insist the normal battle music from Trails in the Sky FC and SC sounds is like elevator music despite being way better arranged, instrumented, and composed than your run-of-the-mill Muzak. I bet you're going to about-face when 3rd releases just because Determination of Fight's got cool synths and stuff. None of that means FC and SC's normal battle themes can't be exciting. It's how they're overused in a game that lasts a long time w/o interesting battles outside of a few bosses.

Falcom's not very good at designing structure of game music playback. I think some of their games have cool, punchy sound effects and great tracks which fit context both together and on an individual basis, just not always when you're in the middle of a long play session.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

FC and SC's jazz is good fight music, I will fight anyone who says different.

So I've spent the majority of my weekend playing The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel, and it has a lot of great music.

I was in one of the dungeons and it had some pretty incredible, elder god tier dungeon music that I was constantly forced to chop up and stop by the strong B+ of a battle theme the game has.

This is a prevalent issue in many JRPGs, repetitive use of battle themes cutting into a song you'll only get to hear one time (usually cause it's only used in a single area). The constant switching of tone because they need to have a hype battle theme for when you are fighting, even if its the same one over and over. Just about every JRPG has this issue, and I find it infuriatingly easy to fix: just let the dungeon music keep playing, and stop ruining the momentum of your tone.

Tales of Zestiria, localized into english last year, was one of the first games I noticed that made a conscious decision to not play the battle theme over and over in very specific areas in the game, notably only when Go Shiina's music came up (talk about the team shitting on Sakuraba's tunes, geeze). They just let the dungeon music play over battles and not get constantly chopped apart, and they made for my favorite JRPG moments in the past few years. It was that simple, it felt fucking great to not have to listen to a new song every 25 seconds.


All I ask is that games in the future give us an option to not use the battle theme, maybe allow me to feel the grandiose wonder that the dungeon theme inspired for longer than 15 seconds.

A) No.

B) This is Falcom. You go from the frying pan of AWESOME DUNGEON/FIELD MUSIC to the fire of AWESOME BATTLE THEMES.

C) No.

D) This is the game that gave us Atrocious Raid and To Grasp Tomorrow which does just this.

E) Falcom, Atlus, and a few others are great about having eleventy-billion great battle and dungeon themes keeping things fresh unlike alot who have the same battle theme outside "boss fight theme, signifigant boss fight theme, end boss theme"

F) No.

 

[AppleSeason]

I love how FF Tactics rotates between multiple battle themes. It's specially great when you need to grind.

But also, the themes are fairly long and designed for long battles, so it's even better.

 

[butman]

Its depends on the track. I remember when i played FF VIII i grinded the hell out of Laguna's party just because the battle theme was GOAT.

Final Fantasy VIII - The Man with the Machine Gun

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

I think it's a matter of understanding when you've got a great piece of music and not feeling, as the person who gets to decide these sort of things, that you have to be absolutely consistent in placing the importance of having a battle theme above it.

Tales of Zestiria's trial dungeons were perfect, the only real times outside of another few uses of Go Shiina's music that they let his tunes overrule the battle theme. They fucking knew that his music was too godlike to cover it up, that or he had a deal in place that his music was not to be interrupted.

There are a lot of ways to use music in video games. The way a specific track is used can impart a particular feeling or meaning depending on the context of what's happening on screen.

The Trial Dungeons I feel are a good example of this. In normal play when you engage an enemy the field theme cuts to the battle theme, but in these Trials, that have significant story context in terms of you acquiring power to defeat the main antagonist, the music continues to play when engaging enemies in battle. This has the effect of making your journey through the Trials feel more grandiose. It also helps that Go Shiina does amazing work here.

It's the same as when say a game that regularly has music playing in all areas decides to cut all music in one specific area. By disturbing and shaking the precedent, it can emotionally affect the player depending on context.

Another example is Nier, in which the game seamlessly transitions into a battle version of the field song. Again, it also helps that Nier has a in my opinion god tier soundtrack so it feels poignant when these transitions occur.

I think all these approaches are valid, it just really depending on how the music is used for each specific game.

 

[R_thanatos]

FC and SC's jazz is good fight music, I will fight anyone who says different.



A) No.

B) This is Falcom. You go from the frying pan of AWESOME DUNGEON/FIELD MUSIC to the fire of AWESOME BATTLE THEMES.

C) No.

D) This is the game that gave us Atrocious Raid and To Grasp Tomorrow which does just this.

E) Falcom, Atlus, and a few others are great about having eleventy-billion great battle and dungeon themes keeping things fresh unlike alot who have the same battle theme outside "boss fight theme, signifigant boss fight theme, end boss theme"

F) No.

I must admit , i agree with you , here.

 

[mdubs]

Persona: the thread.

BABY BABY BABY BABY

I have listened to this theme for countless countess hours, and it will never cease to be the groviest beat in all of games. Truly the goat normal battle theme of all time

 

[djtiesto]

Oh sweet, a thread where people insist the normal battle music from Trails in the Sky FC and SC sounds is like elevator music despite being way better arranged, instrumented, and composed than your run-of-the-mill Muzak. I bet you're going to about-face when 3rd releases just because Determination of Fight's got cool synths and stuff. None of that means FC and SC's normal battle themes can't be exciting. It's how they're overused in a game that lasts a long time w/o interesting battles outside of a few bosses.

Falcom's not very good at designing structure of game music playback. I think some of their games have cool, punchy sound effects and great tracks which fit context both together and on an individual basis, just not always when you're in the middle of a long play session.

I'm just not much for anything jazzy, I guess. I mean some of the 90's Japanese arcade soundtracks which have that jazz/porno/lounge style get some points for nostalgia sake... but I'm a guy who found Kind of Blue Kind of Boring, jazz generally does nothing for me. And of course FC/SC are long ass games too so hearing those battle themes constantly.. *snor*

 

[AcademicSaucer]

I loved what they did in Bravely default where each character was represented by an instrument in the music, so the battle theme changed when something happened in the battle.

 

[Soriku]

People saying they don't like FC's battle theme...I think it's great personally :/ Just the few seconds of the intro is catchy. Video game jazz is pretty good.

Best battle theme ever!

FFX does not even come close to having the best battle theme ever. Even among mainline FF, VII and especially VIII and FF IX murder it.

Persona: the thread.

BABY BABY BABY BABY

Persona 5 really needs to have multiple battle themes like SMT Nocturne or DDS, or at least have an on the fly Persona Radio where you can shuffle between tracks across the series.

 

[Megalosaro]

The best part of rpgs are the battle themes. I love battle themes so so much.

 

[Green Wiggly]

Cutting back to the beginning of the same song after every battle in the first Persona on PSP did weird things to my sanity.

Inside of agony
Those butterflies crying out

Kill me pls.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

So I've spent the majority of my weekend playing The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel, and it has a lot of great music.

I was in one of the dungeons and it had some pretty incredible, elder god tier dungeon music that I was constantly forced to chop up and stop by the strong B+ of a battle theme the game has.

This is a prevalent issue in many JRPGs, repetitive use of battle themes cutting into a song you'll only get to hear one time (usually cause it's only used in a single area). The constant switching of tone because they need to have a hype battle theme for when you are fighting, even if its the same one over and over. Just about every JRPG has this issue, and I find it infuriatingly easy to fix: just let the dungeon music keep playing, and stop ruining the momentum of your tone.

Tales of Zestiria, localized into english last year, was one of the first games I noticed that made a conscious decision to not play the battle theme over and over in very specific areas in the game, notably only when Go Shiina's music came up (talk about the team shitting on Sakuraba's tunes, geeze). They just let the dungeon music play over battles and not get constantly chopped apart, and they made for my favorite JRPG moments in the past few years. It was that simple, it felt fucking great to not have to listen to a new song every 25 seconds.


All I ask is that games in the future give us an option to not use the battle theme, maybe allow me to feel the grandiose wonder that the dungeon theme inspired for longer than 15 seconds.

Haaaa, OP, I fucking knew it. You described the amazing dungeon theme, and I knew it was that one.

It is pretty killer.

I'm okay with battle themes, and I liked Cold Steel's, but I get it. But think about it like this: it breaks up the monotony of one song for an entire dungeon. This theme in particular is incredible, but one might grow sick of it after 45 minutes of hearing it nonstop.

 

[OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun]

Megaman X Command Mission has areas without the battle theme and it had the battle theme changes throughout the game. as well. BOTH!!

The Best Jrpg of all time actually.

 

[JayBabay]

I have to agree but sometimes it evoked so much emotion when you expected a boss or battle theme and the background music continued into the fight. Square used to do this a lot.

 

[Aters]

Persona: the thread.

BABY BABY BABY BABY

It's a good song at least.
Some games have only one battle theme, and the track sucks.

 

[HK-47]

I love how FFXII just kept the overworld music playing, even as it went into battle. Of course this dictated the style of the overworld music, because it had to contain both "low emotion" and "intense emotion" sections woven through each of the overworld music tracks..... but I thought it worked very well.

It really aided my sense of immersion into the fantasy having the exploration and battle themes woven together. Having them separate makes me too aware I am playing a simple videogame. The old school transition into a separate battle theme really kills my immersion.

God tier field music helps.

 

[Dot-N-Run]

As previously mentioned, Fire Emblem Awakening & Fates have songs with both a map and battle version, and they flow seamlessly into each other as you enter and leave combat. This isn't the case 100% of the time though, some bosses get their own unique battle themes. There are also are some maps where a single unchanging song plays throughout, the most notable of these being chapter 10 in Awakening. The song here is a more emotional piece, and it was a great choice to have it be the only music that plays (link here, watch for spoilers of course). Sadly there was one huge misstep here. Of all things, they left the upbeat level up jingle in. This dang thing is fairly loud when it plays, interrupting the song and killing the mood.

 

[Airgetlam]

Battle themes are ok but I really like it if they somehow incorporate the music of that particular dungeon or field you're exploring into it. The only game I can remember that did this off the top of my head was in .hack. They'd have the music of the area playing and when you face an enemy the music would ramp up into something more fitting for a battle and then it would transition back to the field theme when it was over.

 

[Steel]

I wish they did it like Muramasa: Rebirth.

Like this is the atmospheric music for an area:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZb0k_-z00g

And when you go into battle it will seamlessly(without dropping a beat) transition to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t_IdRMe4CE

 

[Spiritwalker]

One of the many reasons I love FFXII. It feels so seamless and perfect when you're in the field, plus there's still a kickass battle theme for bosses. It's a shame FFXV is going back to battle themes.

Somewhat related, I wish FFXIV had a toggle for battle music. It's not bad by any means (in fact I love it), but it really ruins the mood and atmosphere of the world.

 

[psynergylover]

Has never been an issue for me...

 

[dickroach]

Mother 3 does this right. there's like 50 battle themes

 

[Lindsay]

As always FF7 did it right. Straight from the beginning of the game you're thrown into a battle yet ya don't get the regular battle theme, instead it continues right on with the dramatic music thats playing! An thats not a one-off either, its the norm for 'em ta drop the regular battle theme during dramatic segments. Exiting a battle also resumes the world/area theme from where it left off prior to entering combat rather then restarting it!

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

No, there's nothing wrong with this.

 

[pancakesandsex]

I find the repetition in battle themes to be important. There's a set of feedback loops that occur within the context of playing an RPG: Normal battles, boss battles, special boss battles for example, might all have different themes which act as an audio cue to help hype you up. Entering an encounter and having different audio than expected, or a character specific battle theme or something really presses the right buttons for me. I also like when the main battle theme changes after flagging an important event. You have to establish the baseline though for the changes to really hit home.

 

[Fandangox]

At least the overworld themes resume where they left off after a battle in XCX. The fact that the flight theme resets them and you lose the ability to jump in your Skell really annoyed me.

That's the most annoying thing, the overworld themes are all actually pretty good, BUT NOPE! I hope you like the first 20 seconds of each overworld theme!

 

[Nekuphones]

although the battle theme is usually one of the better ones, i have to agree with you OP.
they could always just make a medly of ~10 battle tracks and have a random one play.

i will never get this song out of my head X_X
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkPphjv63E4

 

[pLow7]

I feel you OP, although many battle themes are insanely good they get repetitive.

I remember fondly the Part in FFX where you get to Zanarkand and "Someday the Dream will end" starts and the fights don't interrupt the theme. Simply amazing and it worked pretty well.

Found a walktrough where you can see it :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kUed_LqH1g

 

[eyeball_kid]

Totally agree, OP. I really don't need to be "hyped" in order to fight a trash-tier mob. I can do that just fine myself. I generally like battle music in boss fights, but for the rest it just becomes grating, no matter how good the song is. I wouldn't mind if they played up-tempo or remixed versions of whatever area music I was already in, but not necessary for me at all. Given the frequency of battles in most JRPGs, please just give me something that doesn't assault the ears.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Totally agree, OP. I really don't need to be "hyped" in order to fight a trash-tier mob. I can do that just fine myself. I generally like battle music in boss fights, but for the rest it just becomes grating, no matter how good the song is. I wouldn't mind if they played up-tempo or remixed versions of whatever area music I was already in, but not necessary for me at all. Given the frequency of battles in most JRPGs, please just give me something that doesn't assault the ears.

Citation needed.

 

[SixMachine]

I like how the new Fire Emblem does its battle music. There is the map music that is playing normally, then when a battle is initiated it zooms on in, then the battle theme is seamlessly transitioned into since it is a variation of the map theme. It doesn't feel like the music does a stop and go since they basically pick up where it is left off.

Calm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BOcdhaYTQQ

Battle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95sgwli5oVg

 

[Lynx_7]

I like battle themes but I agree that they should be better implemented depending on the situation/location at hand. Sometimes ditching the battle theme can be used to great effect and enhance the atmosphere of a specific part of the game.

An example I'll always remember is Reach out to the Truth playing over Heaven on that specific dungeon of Persona 4. If there was a single moment in that entire game where they really should've just let the dungeon music play over everything else then that was it. Having the regular battle theme there for the billionth time doesn't add anything of value to the situation. In fact, it actually detracts from what you're supposed to be feeling at that particular dungeon, so it ends up being somewhat jarring to still have this upbeat song consistently showing up at a dramatic event. Twilight Princess is not a JRPG but, as someone else previously mentioned in this thread, it also features a similar case where the battle theme overrides a dramatic song in a dramatic moment when it really shouldn't. It makes me question why some designers neglect to pay attention to stuff like this considering it's an important aspect of immersion.

 

[Ra1den]

100% agreed with OP. I'm not saying there shouldn't be battle themes altogether, but you should not have to hear the same damn theme hundreds of times. Given how frequently battles pop up in JRPGS, more tracks should be composed for battle themes, even if it means less unique tracks for cutscenes etc.

And yes, the background dungeon music should just stay playing during battles a lot of the time, why not? It's always refreshing when that happens.

Basically, anything would be better than the current status quo.

 

[brad-t]

Battle themes are ok but I really like it if they somehow incorporate the music of that particular dungeon or field you're exploring into it. The only game I can remember that did this off the top of my head was in .hack. They'd have the music of the area playing and when you face an enemy the music would ramp up into something more fitting for a battle and then it would transition back to the field theme when it was over.

Came here to post about .hack! This video is a nice example of how the music transitions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StFz7JuRBGE

 

[Fou-Lu]

What I've always wanted for battle music was to just warp the current area music into something more intense. But there are some AMAZING battle themes in RPGs so I don't regret their existence.

 

[eyeball_kid]

Citation needed.

It's too shrill and staccato; all the instrument parts are in the upper frequency range. That song basically says to the listener, "It's time to be stressed!!" No thanks.

I think maybe something like Kenji Niinuma's The Moon and the Prince or Disco Prince (from Katamari Damacy and We Love Katamari) are probably the only songs I could listen to during battles that much. Persona 3's is pretty good, but after a thousand battles any song can become annoying.

I like how the new Fire Emblem does its battle music. There is the map music that is playing normally, then when a battle is initiated it zooms on in, then the battle theme is seamlessly transitioned into since it is a variation of the map theme. It doesn't feel like the music does a stop and go since they basically pick up where it is left off.

I like the idea of this, but that theme is complicated musically, which creates cognitive load on the brain as it tries to follow the music and the shifting parts. The instruments are played like the notes are being fired at the user. Again, stressful, and tiring for the brain. It's okay if boss music is stressful, however normal battle music should basically have a groove but be something your brain can push to the background, because your mind should be focused on the battle.

p.s. that Fire Emblem Fates battle music reminds me quite a bit of Soul Calibur battle music.

 

[Lynx_7]

I like the idea of this, but that theme is complicated musically, which creates cognitive load on the brain as it tries to follow the music and the shifting parts. The instruments are played like the notes are being fired at the user. Again, stressful, and tiring for the brain. It's okay if boss music is stressful, however normal battle music should basically have a groove but be something your brain can push to the background, because your mind should be focused on the battle.

Considering you listen to the battle variations of these pieces for just a few seconds at a time throughout the entirety of a map, which can take anywhere from tens of minutes to an hour or more, I'd say it's not a big deal really.
Unless you're not speaking specifically about the way they're implemented in FE but rather a general assessment of whether it'd work in the context of a full-fledged RPG, in which case there's more of an argument to be had. Personally I'd like to see it done on special occasions to accentuate the importance and/or grandeur of the situation, but not as an outright replacement of battle themes.

 

[Kouriozan]

But he missed an i.
International Zodiac Job System.

Back when international version were Japan only :lol

 

[WrenchNinja]

I always want to Reach out to the truth though

 

[RedToad64]

I am playing through Persona 3 right now and had to take a break for a few weeks because the battle theme is so grating.

To all of those who mentioned Fire Emblem Awakening / Fates soundtrack, yes, I agree that those games have the perfect style of keeping things consistent, exciting, while not being repetitive.

Alternatively, EarthBound also did a good job at assigning specific songs to enemies that are higher or lower levels than you are.