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[fabricated backlash]

Nintendos irrelevance in the UK continues. Can't say that I'm surprised. Arrogance and little to no exposure will do that for you.
The WiiU is going to have a brutal uphill battle to do, it's mind boggling that Nintendo believed they would sell regardless.
I guess when they talked about lessons learned, they were talking about sniffing their own farts.
Sony and MS don't even need new consoles, in both sales, support and services, the PS3 and 360 are sure to kick the WiiUs ass for the upcoming year. With no killer must have software and no incentive to buy for a future lineup, I suspect sales will remain tepid to non existant for the most part.

It's like watching the PS3 launch all over again, Market Leader arrogance in full swing. Maybe this serving of humble pie will send Nintendo on a similar path like Sony with the PS3. But as of now I doubt it. Those fumes were pretty potent, and they might not see the trainwreck before it's allready burned out.

 

[Roman]

Valid point but bear in mind what other posters have said re Wii U. You can change your marketing, your price, your first party software, you can upgrade your OS and network features and footprint over time. All these things will help. What you can't do is change the hardware and technical specifications of your system to match what your competitors are doing.

And 'turning the PS3 around' was only possible with severe financial losses, it can't be regarded as successful in hindsight at all.

Nintendo doesn't have unrelated diversified businesses to rely on for revenue, gaming is all they have. With the Wii U they would have to turn around their entire business plan and game development direction, because currently they are offering something very few buyers demanded.

 

[pieatorium]

Tough market, and calling it the WiiU will be Nintendo's biggest mistake ever, even more than the Virtual Boy.

heh hyperbole is fun and all but the WiiU is probably already more sucessfull than the VB after just 2 weeks

 

[Bumhead]

Price drop is coming, better/more exclusives are coming, better marketing? It'll be interesting to see Nintendo kick into high gear in 2013 in response.

Yep. I'm kind of looking forward to my ambassador program for the Wii U. Bring it on, Nintendo.

Clearly though the UK launch has been troubling and I think there's an overflowing melting pot of contributing factors. Some of them are directly Nintendo's fault, some of them aren't, but either way they need to sort it. In the short to medium term the most crucial thing needs to be to greatly increase the value proposition of the product, either by dropping the price or providing a clearly road map of upcoming software; but prefferably both. I also think they either need to discontinue the abysmal Basic pack, or rebrand it as a cheaper entry point system bundled with casual software such as Just Dance, Wii Fit U and Wii Sports U once they launch.

 

[m.i.s.]

Tough market, and calling it the WiiU will be Nintendo's biggest mistake ever, even more than the Virtual Boy.

I take it you aren't comparing it to the Virtual Boy -- which was discontinued in a matter of months -- in a literal sense?

 

[gofreak]

Even in PS3's worst days, it never really had a problem with publisher support. It was a neat partner SKU to 360, and in lagging 360 by only a year it always had a share of the market that couldn't really be ignored. So even whilst sales were slow, the content library kept accumulating and became competitive - they were able to keep the pieces in place for a time when it would be cheaper. There was never really a problem with the product, but the price, and that's why a turnaround was feasible.

Wii U may have far more fundamental product and industry support issues. At least based on what Nintendo has shown to date.

Which isn't to say a turnaround wouldn't be possible, if we are in fact facing a slow start - but it'd be built on different factors than PS3's. Namely, I think, whether Nintendo can find hits themselves and drive with marketing.

 

[Tizoc]

16 on all formats chart

Hmm so it ranked (within) 16th for PS3, 360 and WiiU?

 

[SolarPowered]

Not for the money they spent on it. The VB wasn't released in PAL land, and the GameBoy wasn't killed to make way for it, so it was more of an experiment, no real harm done.

If WiiU goes down in flames it will take Nintendo out of the running for this generation, and maybe the next.

Come on now...

The system will sell at least thirty million when it is all said and done and this is assuming that the Wii U is an absolute catastrophe. Nintendo managed to make things work with a tiny userbase of 22 million on the Gamecube.

 

[liger05]

Hmm so it ranked (within) 16th for PS3, 360 and WiiU?

and vita

 

[DrWong]

Tough market, and calling it the WiiU will be Nintendo's biggest mistake ever, even more than the Virtual Boy.

Ah ah! Fun to read but those comments disqualifies you as a relevant sales poster. But I can understand the - sadistic - pleasure you have when writing this. Life can be tough and human being need some revenge, sometime.

 

[Conrad Link]

:lol this thread.

Man some of you guys have been waiting all generation to finally use those sharpened knives you had ready for the original Wii haven't you?

GAME OVER MAN GAME OVER

 

[Roman]

:lol this thread.

Man some of you guys have been waiting all generation to finally use those sharpened knives you had ready for the original Wii haven't you?

GAME OVER MAN GAME OVER

One person in here maybe, but this situation really makes me question their external market analysis. Managers/economists much better educated than me coming to the conclusion that these offerings and this price point are going to lead to profit...it's just a bit baffling to me.

 

[Dabanton]

:lol this thread.

Man some of you guys have been waiting all generation to finally use those sharpened knives you had ready for the original Wii haven't you?

GAME OVER MAN GAME OVER

Name names.

I highly doubt anyone is counting the thing off after a week or two of sales. But the excitement is just not their for this machine atm, at the biggest time of the year for electronic sales.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

I think its mostly a result of offering a product thats not compelling for the pricepoint they want.

But doing (probably) ~60k in your first 10 days on the market is emblematic of a severe failure on multiple fronts. Software, hardware, price, marketing, all the U.S launch issues creating a negative image and the mediocre critical response etc.

But we've seen, the PS3 had a lot of these problems, and Sony managed to turn it around. Nintendo is already halfway through that process with the 3DS too. The Wii U launch will be a costly mistake and a squandered opportunity, but long term all bets are still off.

Price drop is coming, better/more exclusives are coming, better marketing? It'll be interesting to see Nintendo kick into high gear in 2013 in response.

Sony sold the PS3 for $399 about a year after release when the production costs were still north of $700. At one stage Sony were losing around $350 per unit, it was only in March 2008 when they got the costs under control and started to break even over the whole ecosystem.

Overall the PS3 lost Sony over $8bn without counting the opportunity costs from not being market leader again. I'm not sure Nintendo have the same kind our resources and wherewithal to enact the same kind of turnaround. Though the scale of losses will be smaller as the Wii U is cheaper to produce than PS3 in 2006/7.

 

[m.i.s.]

Nintendo managed to make things work with a tiny userbase of 22 million on the Gamecube.

Pokemon / merchandising and GBA I would guess would've made the bulk of Nintendo's profits in that era. And Nintendo's handheld fortunes are not as strong in the West as they once were. Just to sound out a note of caution.

 

[Roman]

Overall the PS3 lost Sony over $8bn without counting the opportunity costs from not being market leader again. I'm not sure Nintendo have the same kind our resources and wherewithal to enact the same kind of turnaround. Though the scale of losses will be smaller as the Wii U is cheaper to produce than PS3 in 2006/7.

This would be the worst case scenario, which I think is a bit unlikely, and even then I think they could theoretically handle proportionate losses akin to these. However, you are absolutely correct about the astounding opportunity costs and enormous sunk costs already invested.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Come on now...

The system will sell at least thirty million when it is all said and done and this is assuming that the Wii U is an absolute catastrophe. Nintendo managed to make things work with a tiny userbase of 22 million on the Gamecube.

And a massive DS and GBA userbase...

3DS is no DS or GBA for that matter. It was the handheld division bring home the bacon for a very long time for Nintendo while the home console division was fucking up.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

My girlfriend has bought me a 'gadget' for xmas, and I was worried that she had gotten a Wii U as I had expressed interest in it (initially).

Last night she put the wrapped present under the tree, and going by the weight it can't be anything heavier than a tablet. Relieved!

It's really concerning that once again with a Nintendo platform, software (3rd party) is already an issue.

 

[Shinypogs]

I'm not sure if I should be surprised or amused by wonderbook holding the 22nd spot for the 3rd week in a row. I mean it's not great sales by any means but it's still better than I was expecting it to do.

 

[axisofweevils]

These UK charts still show the Wii has major influence over the casual audience.

Seriously - Just Dance 4 at number 2 and Just Dance Disney Party at number 28.
Makes me think that games like SiNG Party may have an audience.

 

[miksar]

And a massive DS and GBA userbase...

3DS is no DS or GBA for that matter. It was the handheld division bring home the bacon for a very long time for Nintendo while the home console division was fucking up.

GBA sold around 80 mln units worldwide. I don't see why 3DS wouldn't achieve that result in 4 years after the price goes considerably down.

 

[PaulLFC]

I think the "most people don't have a clue what it is" point is the biggest problem for Wii U. Before the Wii came out (and after launch) I had family asking me about it and what it was, and the general hype for it was huge - queues for demo stations, people talking about it everywhere... it was insane.

There's just no buzz about the Wii U, I find it strange to be honest. I wasn't expecting another Wii, but I haven't had anyone ask me about it or what it is, nobody I know is interested in getting one when many of my friends bought a Wii on day one as I did. Confusion probably plays a big part in that - "is it just a new Wii controller?". The price doesn't help either.

 

[radioheadrule83]

They deserve that poor Paper Mario debut.

They've failed to excite me for it, and I'd consider myself part of their core audience. I'm not really interested in anything on 3DS until February / March.

Wii-U? Still early days, but those drops look precipitous for 2/3 weeks before Christmas... UK might need an ambassador programme!

 

[Pie and Beans]

Absolutely.

Nintendo at least has first party output to potentially turn this around somewhat.

The irony here is that Sony did a much better job of having titles on two platforms (PS3 + PSP) simultaneously than Nintendo has. Vita's launch had some pretty meaty stuff available all round while the PS3's lineup wasn't skipping a beat. Studio expansion and 2nd party dealings: its whats for breakfast.

I would predict that Nintendo is going to go handheld only or something in the future, with convergance of HD graphics on a handheld being good enough for their purposes without needing a box in the living room, offering 2 sizes of the thing: the true portable 3DS/Vita sized variant, and a big ass iPad sized variant more for home use or those with backpacks. Better yet, as their WiiU streaming tech can be downsized, their next all in one handheld can be the reverse of the WiiU and send a signal to a dongle plugged into an HDTV.

 

[Impeccable]

Wii U is a bigger bomb than Vita!

 

[Queen of Hunting]

The lack of placings in the chart are just a reflection of consumer confusion and lack of awareness right now in the UK.
This is a huge event, the Wii's successor, backwards compatible, start of the next-gen, tablet controller included............ yet there is no buzz about it at all.

This should be nintendo's biggest week, when the early adopters make way for the masses who've been eagerly awaiting Nintendo's super-Wii.
Instead no-one has a fucking clue about the thing, the masses aren't talking about it at all, except for the very real anecdotes about people thinking its a new Wii controller and so ignoring the vague adverts.
Thats not getting knives out, thats being realistic.
Sales rarely get better than now during Spring-Summer, people are quite right to be going "What the fuck?!" at this situation.

most people believe its an expansion on the Wii. countless time ive had to tell people its not and its entirely seperate from the Wii.

 

[Majmun]

Wii U is a bigger bomb than Vita!

I don't know if this is parody, or not.

But is the WiiU doing worse that Vita? Compared to the first week, of course...

 

[radioheadrule83]

I think the "most people don't have a clue what it is" point is the biggest problem for Wii U. Before the Wii came out (and after launch) I had family asking me about it and what it was, and the general hype for it was huge - queues for demo stations, people talking about it everywhere... it was insane.

There's just no buzz about the Wii U, I find it strange to be honest. I wasn't expecting another Wii, but I haven't had anyone ask me about it or what it is, nobody I know is interested in getting one when many of my friends bought a Wii on day one as I did. Confusion probably plays a big part in that - "is it just a new Wii controller?". The price doesn't help either.

I've actually experienced the opposite, but going by these sales, that's not the norm...

my mother asked me about ZombiU because of the adverts for example - whereas she didn't know shit about the Wii until I'd already bought it, my brother has had his friends around just to look at my Wii U, and they're all talking about getting one, and I never had that with Wii either. I've got people on Facebook who are dying to get one for Christmas... so I'm actually quite confident its going to have good word of mouth.

One thing that's different among my own, geekier friends though - is that people just don't have the money. I know people who bought Wii, who've voiced interest in Wii U, who've simply said it's too expensive to buy right now, or that there's nothing out right now that they want on it. I think this thing needs E3... which bizarrely, you'd think would do more damage, given new console announcements... but I think that's exactly what it needs. High entry prices of the new consoles, and visible future software for Wii U will put the value proposition in better perspective.

The reason we don't know much about BIG first party releases on this thing is that they're holding back on announcing them strategically. I believe that's a mistake. They need to show what their teams like EAD Tokyo, Retro and Monolith are doing. Or at least HINT at it.

 

[SmokyDave]

I think the "most people don't have a clue what it is" point is the biggest problem for Wii U. Before the Wii came out (and after launch) I had family asking me about it and what it was, and the general hype for it was huge - queues for demo stations, people talking about it everywhere... it was insane.

There's just no buzz about the Wii U, I find it strange to be honest. I wasn't expecting another Wii, but I haven't had anyone ask me about it or what it is, nobody I know is interested in getting one when many of my friends bought a Wii on day one as I did. Confusion probably plays a big part in that - "is it just a new Wii controller?". The price doesn't help either.

The conversations I've overheard in my office invariably go like this:

"Have you seen that Wii-U?"

"Yeah, what is it?"

(I pipe up and tell 'em it's the new Wii)

"Huh".

The disinterest is palpable.

 

[Miles X]

Halo at about 550k~ then, wonder if it can crawl to 1 mill lifetime.

 

[Averon]

The conversations I've overheard in my office invariably go like this:

"Have you seen that Wii-U?"

"Yeah, what is it?"

(I pipe up and tell 'em it's the new Wii)

"Huh".

The disinterest is palpable.

Sounds like people moved on from the Wii brand, confusing name or not.

 

[Miles X]

Sounds like people moved on from the Wii brand, confusing name or not.

The majority of the people nintendo lured in were not 'real' gamers as it were, maybe I should say dedicated ... anyway, they were never going to be loyal and stick around.

 

[electroplankton]

So, Wii U stumbles and the UK market is dying?

I know UK sales have been down dramatically this year, but let's be honest, Wii U was never going to be the console to stir up the excitement again.

Anecdotally perhaps, but people are genuinely eagerly anticipating 720/PS4 news here. It's been too long between generations, and we're seeing the results of that in sales slumps across the world.

I'm not saying 720/PS4 will fix everything, but they'll definitely get the ball rolling. That coupled with a Wii U price drop + a likely barrage of must-have Nintendo games late 2013 and the industry will finally start to pick up again.

Did I mention Wii U?

 

[madmackem]

Wait people expected wii u titles to chart into the second week? haha never going to happen not with the small install base and titles going on sale of late, not to mention the big titles like cods and fifas eating up large numbers of sales like always in the uk.

 

[Acheteedo]

Wii U needs marketing full stop. Infomercials aren't working at all, Wii U needs imagination in advertisement. Something like the "U" in the US ads, that's a great imaginative thing to show in an ad.

The WiiU's problems can't be solved with marketing alone, the system itself simply lacks appeal, it's not an exciting enough product, and we're seeing that reflected here.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Sounds like people moved on from the Wii brand, confusing name or not.

The "remember that box we went mental about, paid £200 for, and then never touched beyond Christmas" stigma is going to work against the insanely plump audience Wii enjoyed when people used their PS3's and 360's on a nightly basis ever since. The fish in the pond have begun to doubt that Mario shaped hook in the water too.

The majority of the people nintendo lured in were not 'real' gamers as it were, maybe I should say dedicated ... anyway, they were never going to be loyal and stick around.

Stick around for...? The Wii died a goddam software death worse than the Gamecube despite the fact it was still selling. Totally endemic of the "Nintendo cant do 2 platforms at once" situation.

 

[electroplankton]

The Wii U problem is one: it's out since 10 days or so.

 

[neoanarch]

I don't really follow PAL that closely but I always got the impression that UK was not a huge market for Nintendo. The smallest market share from the big5 in europe I thought. or second behind italy?

 

[PaulLFC]

The Wii U problem is one: it's out since 10 days or so.

By that logic every new product ever also has a "problem" after 10 days on sale.

 

[michaelius]

The lack of placings in the chart are just a reflection of consumer confusion and lack of awareness right now in the UK.
This is a huge event, the Wii's successor, backwards compatible, start of the next-gen, tablet controller included ............ yet there is no buzz about it at all.

Except that's not working.

Wii craze is over and 2 years of nearly nothing have probably shaken consumer faith at least a bitand they changed controller which made Wii succesfull in first place.

BC is hardly important when you need additional controlers to enjoy it or directly upgrade from Wii.

Next-gen is questionable as you can't see any advantages over current gen consoles in games
released so far and in online it's behind both Microsoft and Sony.

Tablet controler would help if there weren't already bazilions of tablets in homes.

 

[radioheadrule83]

I don't really follow PAL that closely but I always got the impression that UK was a huge market for Nintendo. The smallest market share from the big5 in europe I thought. or second behind italy?

Not really. Dixons group, which owns some of the most highly visible consumer electronics stores on the UK highstreet, nearly stopped carrying the Gamecube altogether, along with Argos -- which is a huge catalogue / store collection place here. The original DS phat model got minimal shelf space compared to PSP, which at launch even had shelves just for UMD releases. It wasn't until the Wii and DS lite that they got on a good footing again, but that's been over here since about 2010.

The malaise is Nintendo's fault. They need to show what they've got cooking for Wii U if they want people to be excited about it. I know people who want to want one.

 

[neoanarch]

Not really. Dixons group, which owns some of the most highly visible consumer electronics stores on the UK highstreet, nearly stopped carrying the Gamecube altogether, along with Argos -- which is a huge catalogue / store collection place here. The original DS phat model got minimal shelf space compared to PSP, which at launch even had shelves just for UMD releases. It wasn't until the Wii and DS lite that they got on a good footing again, but that's been over here since about 2010.

The malaise is Nintendo's fault. They need to show what they've got cooking for Wii U if they want people to be excited about it. I know people who want to want one.

oops left out a really important NOT up there.


But that was what I thought. Even during the wii/ds craze I don't think it did very impressive UK numbers comparatively.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I think people need to consider that the 2 years of nothing at the end of the Wii's life (well, Skyward Sword, XenoBlade, Last Story, and Just Dance) really turned off consumers who would have lined up day one for Nintendo's new console. As said above, when MS murdered the Xbox, the 360 was right there. Consumers may feel burned and are taking a wait and see approach. Or, worse yet, they've already upgraded to PS360 during the Wii drought, and Nintendo has lost them as customers for at least 4-5 years.

It's one way to explain the soft launch even in the presence of NSMB U, which is supposed to be one of their heavy hitters.

oops left out a really important NOT up there.


But that was what I thought. Even during the wii/ds craze I don't think it did very impressive UK numbers comparatively.

Wii still has a higher LTD than PS3 or 360 in the UK, I think it is close to PS2. Story is similar to the US though, it fell off hard.

 

[Graphics Horse]

oops left out a really important NOT up there.


But that was what I thought. Even during the wii/ds craze I don't think it did very impressive UK numbers comparatively.

I think the Wii and DS at their height were enormous in the UK, but they were the exceptions so far.

 

[Miles X]

oops left out a really important NOT up there.


But that was what I thought. Even during the wii/ds craze I don't think it did very impressive UK numbers comparatively.

DS did over 12m in the UK,

 

[axisofweevils]

As I posted in the Wii U Sold Out thread, according to Eurogamer's Nintendo UK interview, their strategy seems to be:

Soft launch now.
Get the enthusiasts to buy it.
Enthusiasts will show it off to friends & families over holidays.
Lure the mainstream in 2013 with games like Sing Party and Wii Fit U.

 

[electroplankton]

By that logic every new product ever also has a "problem" after 10 days on sale.

We don't have any info about hardware sales. We don't have exact numbers about software sales. Nor about tie-ratio. We have scarce information about Europe in general. UK has a Top 40, many other countries have barely a Top 10. I don't think it's good to overreact and say the Wii U is a failure basing on a UK chart.

 

[m.i.s.]

I think the Wii and DS at their height were enormous in the UK, but they were the exceptions so far.

Right.

Wii LTD is approaching 10 million in the UK. Like everywhere else, it was a phenomenal success.

DS / Lite / DSi / XL have accrued sales of over 12 million LTD in the UK alone. I'll try to hunt down the figures.

Wii / DS saw a huge surge in Nintendo's popularity here - and they let it slide to near irrelevance. That's quite a feat, even by Nintendo's standards.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Lure the mainstream in 2013 with games like Sing Party and Wii Fit U.

Well if thats their tactic, theyre fucked. The mainstream still has their original Wii Fits, and the GamePad isnt going to offer much beyond the board, and SingStar is a free download on the £130 PS3, never mind all the countless compilations to be found in bargain bins across the country.

The real truth is Nintendo were hoping NintendoLand would be Wii Sports all over again. Thats not happened.

We don't have any info about hardware sales. We don't have exact numbers about software sales. Nor about tie-ratio. We have scarce information about Europe in general. UK has a Top 40, many other countries have barely a Top 10. I don't think it's good to overreact and say the Wii U is a failure basing on a UK chart.

It is not selling out and infact floundering at Christmas with a New Super Mario Bros at release. Its in trouble, theres no spinning it. Wonderbook is selling more in the UK charts. WONDERBOOK.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Wonderbook keeping it steady.