So by that logic, white nationalist are allowed to hold a "whites only" event for a day because it's just an "event" and not legally enforced. Please. This is blatantly discrimatory.
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Paris mayor demands black feminist festival that 'prohibits' white people be banned
- Thread starter Shiggy
- Start date
So by that logic, white nationalist are allowed to hold a "whites only" event for a day because it's just an "event" and not legally enforced. Please. This is blatantly discrimatory.
travisbickle
Member
About the amount of people who will fit in the 10% of the space they've allocated for people of any race.
I don't see the problem in allowing black women an opportunity to get together and discuss politics, race and gender issues?
how long do you expect that to take? They disagree, that's duly noted. They may think its too controversial, while others may think the controversy is useful and necessary. they don't all have to be in lockstep in order to remain anti-racist.
and here comes the "and by that logic, your situation in the reverse, here is an actual racist instance"
I do believe white people were allowed to attend this event? only some non-mixed areas for specific reasons pertaining to the event were to take place?
but yeah the moment someone tells a white person to do think see or pause for any reason, it becomes discrimination.
Darryl M R
Member
Yea iPhone wanted to change her name badly, but I came in with the edit.
Definitely one of the better YouTubers to listen to when discussing social issues. Much better than any hot take moderate or former video game journalists.
SirRattleBalls
Banned
Nonsense if you ask me, Black people around the world have fought to end segregation .. but here we have a group that want to separate them selfs from the rest of the world. As a Black man this feels like a knock back, would it really be okay if the roles where reversed, i doubt it. Segregation is never the answer
LostMyNarbles
Member
I don't get people saying this is fine and dandy? It's okay to hold feminism events like this but trying to ban racial groups comes across as wrong to me. It's discriminatory but people here seem to be hand-waving that for reasons.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
Uh yeah, they normally do in the US, with police protection.
What gets them in trouble and banned is what they promote in said events.
Which is a HUGE difference between your example and this.
There shouldn't be a problem at all, they created one with the race separation crap.
entremet
Member
Looking that text isn't wasn't about the event itself but the creation of protest spaces demarcated for specific ethnicities.
This could've happened organically. Not sure why they needed to include them. Did the US Women's Marches of this year do this? I don't remember.
Thornton Reed
Member
I don't agrees with this comment. I think it's a tad short sighted. I can be white with black children or have a a black SO. Racist language directed at my family would hurt me just as much as the family members it was directed at. You don't have to be a POC to be deeply offended by racist language. Being of medderranean decent I was on the wrong end of racist abuse growing up in a ignorant northern town of England. Nothing saddens me more than hearing racist language
I think my issue with it comes from using the term "festival" and using public property and public fundings to promote it while 80% of it happens somewhere else and is closed off to non-black and/or non-female people.
Why not just have an exposition on black feminism open to everyone, and then distribute flyers or whatever for a later group talk in your private locals with whoever you want to invite ?
Just feels like a publicity stunt just like their previous "decolonisation camps".
That said I don't think there is anything anyone can do about this legally.
Why not just have an exposition on black feminism open to everyone, and then distribute flyers or whatever for a later group talk in your private locals with whoever you want to invite ?
Just feels like a publicity stunt just like their previous "decolonisation camps".
That said I don't think there is anything anyone can do about this legally.
100% no, people in this thread defending this crap would be going ape shit if it was the other way around.
SirRattleBalls
Banned
Here is a post from reddit that might help you understand french values
I could not have said it better my self, You need to understand that having a no mixing event in 2017 is just wrong on so many levels.
Funyarinpa
Member
Agreed with both of you.
I believe that 99% of people who would attend such a festival in good faith would understand why black women have the spotlight. They'd not intervene, of their own accord.
But when you say "Your race and gender inherently and automatically prevents you from entering", that's on a different level and it gives a different message.
The RNC has a convention every year
GoldenCrow
Member
Don't see why they need to have segregation. These sort of events happen all the time (a friend of mine went to one yesterday in London) without the need to segregate and just by advertising to the target market they usually get the crowd they are looking for and don't break EU law.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
I can see why they did it, even if the attempt is going to get them in trouble.
Black women's non-mixed space (80% of the festival): debates and construction of a political strategy and agenda, groups of words, reflections on Afro-feminist theories and care
In terms of politics, this demo barely gets listened to. So they made a space for them to actually be centered.
Blind space for black people: Reflections around the black community, and the struggles afros
This space is normally black straight male dominated.
Mixed space for racialized women: Exchanges on decolonial feminisms
White/lighter skinned women dominated
Open space for all : round tables, show cases and exhibitions
What normally happens, white male dominated.
I can see it, but them calling it a black feminist festival would have been enough to drive most of those dominating groups away from jump.
LostMyNarbles
Member
And people regularly talk about how racist the Republican Party is so what's your point?
They don't disagree because they think it's controversial, they disagree with the concept
I can definitely understand their point of view and find it hard to just declare as wrong.
I can see points for both sides in this discussion, but I also imagine the smallest damage would be if the festival is just open to everyone.
So if there's a white festival that has a 10% space for other ethnicities it would be better? Come on.
In Paris?
finowns
Member
What rational person would have a problem allowing black women to do those things? And is that what you think the government is doing in this case? Denying them the chance to gather and discuss politics?
LOL and I suppose you think I'm ok with those scumbags?
I would just put up signs that say "please non-brown people, consider not entering this room because after centuries of tension we would like to create a brown safe space within this festival. you can still enter because no one has the power to stop you, but please, please for the sake of this event and what we are trying to accomplish, do not enter."
I can see points from both sides, but again, I don't agree with the European anti-racist groups that an all black or brown space within the greater festival has no place and no value. I would say they don't get it.
and I wonder...
What exactly would be taking place in the whites only room of the white festival...
Is this fictional White only event in Ghana? Bangladesh? Or some other country where these White People holding the fictional event are the minority and marginalized and have the need of a safe space?
Do they ban people of different races tough, not saying that republicans don't have a lot of racists just that they don't break any laws or say no coloureds or do they?
LinkAndEpona
Banned
Shutting it down is completely justified if they were indeed prohibiting by race.
Many other events that were to promote anything resembling a safe space have never actually, literally made it solely for a single group, turning away people based on race.
Many other events that were to promote anything resembling a safe space have never actually, literally made it solely for a single group, turning away people based on race.
entremet
Member
You bring up good points. I'm not familiar with these events, but are they usually co-opted by other demos? I can see the point from the organizers here if that's the case, but it is tricky given how the law is written.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
French values sound like a whole lot of marginalized voices being overshadowed and erased.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
If France's non-brown people, hell, even their brown males, are in anyway like the US' or UK's...
That sign will be responded with a "Challenge Accepted".
Their values also include plundering poor countries like Haiti. That colorblind shit doesn't fly when they're proven to be pretty racist, and stopped just short of showing their ass in their election. I'm sleep tho
Doctor_Thomas
Member
Are they discriminating against people because of their race?
If the answer is no, then there's no issue.
If the answer is yes, then it's racist.
If people were to hold an event that is open to whites only event we, rightly, call it what it is.
Edit: I also don't think it should be banned though.
If the answer is no, then there's no issue.
If the answer is yes, then it's racist.
If people were to hold an event that is open to whites only event we, rightly, call it what it is.
Edit: I also don't think it should be banned though.
live and learn amongst them.
And imagine what we would miss out on if Eric Andre was banned from going because he's​ black.
On topic, I'm not a fan of this sort of thing. I see it more and more, this desire to ban the 'oppressive class' from events/parties. I don't think it ever actually works out well... Because when you do this sort of thing, not only do you start to lose mindshare with individuals who fit the bill of oppressive class that day (because no one should be expected to feel good about having their ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation etc singled out and banned), not only do you start to cause a large divide within the community you are trying to protect (because there is going to be significant disagreement on something like this), you also just fundamentally start to implement the same broken ass process that was the thing much of the world grew up learning to hate and look down on - segregation.
It's a fucking steep uphill battle convincing people that it's different when you do it.
White women aren't included in this (maybe jews and romani). It'll be heavily dominated by black and arab women.
They also don't allow non-black maghrebis in their organisation or in the black-only space.
GhostTrick
Banned
For the record, the way I read it in French, 80% of the festival is reserved for black women. It's not black and white. There are also arabs/asians/jewish or anything.
In 2017?
The most passionate anti-racists will show up from out of nowhere to tell us how that's wrong.
Phoenix RISING
Banned
Ugh safe spaces. This kind of segregation is never the answer, even if the group has it tougher than the other, we need to come together and all that good stuff.
It's complicated. Having done some real life activism, spaces where the marginalized group wants to discuss things will almost always have well meaning and sometimes not so well meaning people who are typically not apart of the marginalized group the org is centered around come in and make the space about them and their questions. Essentially instead of discussing some strategies of how to organize you become someone else's race therapist. I can see the appeal of wanting a space where you don't have to deal with that.
Edit: of course explicitly banning people isn't the way you go about it.
From what I've gleaned, the spaces are supposed to be workshops to help WOC deal with toxic racist environments. It's supposed to be an educational safe space, a sanctuary. My money is on this being overblown by the racist political right who want to put those black/poc in their place. This just seems like white reactionary bait.
n00bsauce87
Member
But white people are allowed to attend. It says there is space open for everyone.
Unless I'm reading something wrong.
Why would white people want to be shoehorned into panels that focus solely about black women? It's not about them. Why would the people running said panels accommodate and change the focus and topics for white people? They have the "open space for all" for those issues that would require everyone to come together to exchange ideas and​ find solutions.
Am I getting the gist of how this festival should work?
Unless I'm reading something wrong.
Why would white people want to be shoehorned into panels that focus solely about black women? It's not about them. Why would the people running said panels accommodate and change the focus and topics for white people? They have the "open space for all" for those issues that would require everyone to come together to exchange ideas and​ find solutions.
Am I getting the gist of how this festival should work?
And there were black people there. While few there were allowed to attend
I thought he was making a joke
Hard to tell on this forum some times lol.
Yes, but sometimes you want a "safe space" to talk about your groups issues and concerns with people of the same group without criticism/your discussions being "hijacked" by others who don't fully understand your concerns or can't relate to them. Example, Black Feminist may want to talk about issues they have as Black Feminist within the overall Feminist movement that may include criticisms of the Feminist movement as a whole and how they can improve things without non Black Feminists criticizing them within their gathering and having to be on the "defensive".
excelsiorlef
Member
That one isn't...
entremet
Member
They are allowed. It's the demarcation of physical spaces to specific ethnities that got them in trouble with EU law.