You knowing only one black person is the problem though right? I am black and because my parents earn a decent wage I live in a area that is 99% white. I had two black children in my school when I was there and 2 middle eastern children. But the large part of POC are grouped together in poorer areas.
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Paris mayor demands black feminist festival that 'prohibits' white people be banned
- Thread starter Shiggy
- Start date
You knowing only one black person is the problem though right? I am black and because my parents earn a decent wage I live in a area that is 99% white. I had two black children in my school when I was there and 2 middle eastern children. But the large part of POC are grouped together in poorer areas.
My question wasn't about the geographical location of the two events, but the underlying philosophy
France isn't the US, we don't have the same laws, we don't have the same culture, we don't have the same level of racism. Why would people react the same way ?
I live in a pretty crappy area in Portsmouth, I'm not really sure why there aren't many black people here, there are plenty of polish, pakistani and indians. Yea I had about 2 black people at my school too, but there were kids at my school whose families could not afford to buy them school clothes, these are white people. From my experience it's always been about class, if you go over the hill into Purbrook it's all toffs who would look at me like scum.
The example I always go back to with stories like this, is my experience with the Black student group at my college.
We had our weekly meetings, and while on one hand we wanted the meetings to be a space where everyone could attend and take part, meet black students and discuss black issues, the openness eventually became a problem. Every fucking week we got groups of white students concern trolling with dumbass fucking questions like "but if you can have a black history month, why can't we have a white history month???" and "what should we do about the violence in your communities??" that would ultimately derail the point of the meetings. Eventually it affected our attendance, because nobody wanted to come to Teach-a-White-Person Tuesdays. But at the same time, we couldn't discriminate, because we were a student organization. It was a pretty big problem.
This is one of those rock and a hard place situations. You can't have an event in public that openly discriminates. But, at the same time...I get it.
We had our weekly meetings, and while on one hand we wanted the meetings to be a space where everyone could attend and take part, meet black students and discuss black issues, the openness eventually became a problem. Every fucking week we got groups of white students concern trolling with dumbass fucking questions like "but if you can have a black history month, why can't we have a white history month???" and "what should we do about the violence in your communities??" that would ultimately derail the point of the meetings. Eventually it affected our attendance, because nobody wanted to come to Teach-a-White-Person Tuesdays. But at the same time, we couldn't discriminate, because we were a student organization. It was a pretty big problem.
This is one of those rock and a hard place situations. You can't have an event in public that openly discriminates. But, at the same time...I get it.
Misogynoir is a different kind of beast.
This, this, this.
I attended a PWI, in a racist conservative enclave. It made the need for these spaces that much more important.
I actually wanted to make a comparison to the Alamo incident, but I felt iffy on it due to it happening in a different country with different laws. Regardless, the argument in favor of the Alamo is that men were not being barred from the same experience as women- they were allowed all of the amenities, services, and access to the same film on the same day that women were; they just couldn't go into one or two screening rooms, which would be no different if they were serving instead a group like veterans or if it'd been booked privately. It's exclusionary, but their rights and dignity were not being violated as much as the special snowflakes cried about it. I mean, it's not like said snowflakes care about shit like sororities and fraternities.
I even made the argument in that thread that you could probably get away with the same thing on the basis of race under the law and do a "Black Panther for Black People" showing even though- because America is racially charged- there's probably less precedence for it for fear of backlash. So, my feelings are the same here, in that if other races were not being barred from the exact same experience at this festival, then I would have less problem with it, particularly when you take into account what social and power dynamics can do to mixed spaces when minorities want to not deal with the bullshit of educating people when they have bigger problems to hash out.
Says the guy who basically started out in this thread selectively quoting people with his offended hot takes. Watch; I bet a dollar you're gonna quote this too and say some other smart-ass thing.
I even made the argument in that thread that you could probably get away with the same thing on the basis of race under the law and do a "Black Panther for Black People" showing even though- because America is racially charged- there's probably less precedence for it for fear of backlash. So, my feelings are the same here, in that if other races were not being barred from the exact same experience at this festival, then I would have less problem with it, particularly when you take into account what social and power dynamics can do to mixed spaces when minorities want to not deal with the bullshit of educating people when they have bigger problems to hash out.
Says the guy who basically started out in this thread selectively quoting people with his offended hot takes. Watch; I bet a dollar you're gonna quote this too and say some other smart-ass thing.
Of course black people have to be 'productive' in every moment in their lives because otherwise you get 10 white guys in your ear yelling at you about how you're setting racial equality back by decades. The longer this thread goes on for the stronger the idea of safe spaces is to me. Maybe people want catharsis or just a place they can express themselves without feeling pressured to conform. Yes, this was a poor way of doing it, but can't people just fucking empathize? People who have no idea of the psychological effects of having to justify every waking movement and action to white people have the gall to be throwing around the R word.
Ergh Pompey... I live in Southampton ha. 99% white here apart from the poor areas.
My question wasn't about the geographical location of the two events, but the underlying philosophy
The private vs public space makes a little more sense, though the theater is still a public business, and thus theoretically open to all who want to come.
But I know it's legal for the movie theater to have their screening, while it sounds like it may be illegal for this festival to enforce the separation? That could be a key difference as well, I suppose.
I'm pretty sure it's against EU law for public money to be used for explicitly discriminatory practices. Of course there's the cases of police discrimination but, unfortunately, that's not as explicit. If this were allowed it would set a precedent for horrible groups like Le Pen to discriminate in their rallies/gatherings. As for the private/public distinction, Alamo isn't funded by the government and is entirely in the private sector, this event was using public funds and operating in a public space, it's very different even if the two were in the same country.
If I'm not on white people's permanent beck and call to subject myself to concern trolling and "educational opportunities" to help them "understand" a 500 year old problem that has seen refutation from abolitionists, civil rights leaders, and allies for a similar amount of time, then in reality I'm just a weak millennial who can't emotionally handle debate and dissent.
That's not what you did to me? I actually started by making a post and got quoted by some dude who got mad at me calling this segregation, which it totally is.
I knew you'd quote me. Thought I wasn't worth your time.
The same sort of thing happened at the black student group in my school as well. White folk would show up, get all in their feelings, and then derail the conversation for the entire meeting. The same thing would happen with black feminists who wanted to talk about issues affecting black women as well. I completely understand why a event like this would want to be held.
Yaphett Kotto
Member
How is an event for disadvantaged people who just want to be with others with the same experience to discuss or talk about the issues that have to deal with is racist?
This isn't a KKK meeting.
This isn't some Blue Lives Matter fuckery.
This isn't any event that will have some racist undertone to it.
It's no different than the existence of a Black History month or (to a lesser extent but relatable) the black/hispanic culture community threads.
So again, how in the hell is a festival that is meant to be about racial issues black women deal with that only want black women there to discuss it (as those people will be the ones that know the experience best vs. anyone else) racist?
Don't be childish. You weren't worth replying to with your insinuation before, but I will defend myself if you're talking shite about my posts.
Scum-town? I go there to see bands sometimes, nice place. I'm sure there is plenty of unhappy broke white people there though, there's enough here to go around.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
The point was organizing. Really hard to do when you spend most of the time doing regular Teach-a-White-Person sessions.
excelsiorlef
Member
Can you folks stop calling this segregation, it's not even remotely close to that.
Yaphett Kotto
Member
People want to feel like they are oppressed.
Captin Quacker
Member
Segregation
The action or state of setting someone or something apart from others.
Gotdatmoney
Member
It's amazing how much segregation and racism will be thrown out at something which is relatively harmless like this. Words used to describe times when black people had to give up their seats for white people and were massively descriminated againstbin terms of their ability to actually live with the majority.
It's just kinda funny. So much passion to bury such a totally trivial thing.
It's just kinda funny. So much passion to bury such a totally trivial thing.
It doesn't actually prove anything. The one black person you know doesn't add credence to your belief that most of the racism in the UK is directed at Muslims.
Have you ever complained about segregation before this incident?
excelsiorlef
Member
You know full well that word carries a loaded history...
If you want to hold a private meeting and only invite people of your likeness then fine, do whatever you want. But a public gathering with enforced racial and gender segregation? Nope.
Not going to stop applying the definition of something to that thing.
Do not discriminate or segregate against races, genders or sexualities in public spaces.
It's so gods-damned simple.
Promote an activity *for* a specific group if you want, but don't presume to be above the law when it comes to excluding people along the above lines.
Yaphett Kotto
Member
Did you really just go to the Webster dictionary for a word like that...
That was not my point at all, please go back and read it properly.
The bolded is completely irrelevant, I know how GAF works though, always trying to find something to catch you on, I'm sure you've been looking through my post history too haha.
I know it does, but it's literally the definition of segregation, I don't get how you can argue that.
Problem?
Captin Quacker
Member
Serious shit are y'all actively ignoring historical context?
excelsiorlef
Member
Yeah, if people want to have an explicit segregationist event (or part of an event, even 20%), that's fine. They can't do it on a public space or place of bullishness however. If there was an implicitly discriminatory (ie, the topic leads to little or none of a specific part of a group joining), that is fine as well even in public spaces. However, a group in a public space cannot specifically say people of a certain ethnicity, race, gender, sex, creed, etc. are disallowed. That is against French and EU law.
This isn't segregation.
This isn't racist.
What then it's when you want host festival in public space and limit access by color of persons skin and gender? Badly thought out... "thing"?
Early post suggesting different name for event could have worked or just renting out e.g. local arena and then focus marketing event to people you want take part in your event. I can understand why mayor of Paris could see this as problematic and set precedent that could be problematic in future.
Yaphett Kotto
Member
This. Is. Not. Discrimination. Nor. Segregation.
How many times will that have to be said in this thread?
So how are these people wrong since that is out of the way?
there's no point in arguing this. The #wellactually brigade is going to come in here on some law-and-order type shit. Others are going to try to explain why oppressed groups sometimes want exclusive spaces. Figuratively spinning tires here.
As long as people believe that ALL segregation is wrong in EVERY context, there's no getting through to them
As long as people believe that ALL segregation is wrong in EVERY context, there's no getting through to them
What has that to do with anything?
We use other words with a lot of historical context as well and it does not change the meaning of the word.
Racial separation then? Whatever word you're comfortable with here isn't going to change the underlying issue.
Yes. It. Is. Hold. Your. Racially. Separated. Gatherings. At. A. Private. Invite. Only. Setting. If. You. Must.
I understand the need to gather like-minded people to discuss sensitive issues without the fear of concern trolling or disruption but if you truly believe that the only like-minded people are those of your same gender and race then don't hold this segregated gathering at a openly advertised public venue.
LostMyNarbles
Member
HOW is it not discrimination? How is it not segregation? The event is opening advertising that if you aren't black you won't be allowed in certain areas and if you aren't a black woman then areas are walled off to you.
If this were a thread about white feminists not allowing woman of any other race to enter certain areas those labels would be applied. It discrimates against white woman, muslims, asians and hispanics among others.
Well that's the only knowledge of segregation some of these people have. Well that and these horrible black feminists.
That was your point and it is exactly what you wrote.
It is quite relevant. This is the first time you have had issue with segregation, no?
No one gives a shit about your silly ass post history. Who are you?
Interesting that you brought it up though, must be some horrible shit.
I'm only as childish as the person talking to me.
You got pissed at my first post in this thread lamenting the fact that it inevitably, like clockwork, devolved into a shitfest against black people who express intent to meet and discuss strategies for furthering our causes and vent about our frustrations with other black people regardless of whether it was done privately or not, even though the incident in question was an open-and-shut case apparently based on French law that people who get hate boners over this kind of thing from black people could've easily jacked off in peace to had they not seen fit to go down the road of accusing black people of being weak-minded and the real racists, and all because I mentioned white people by name. Your response to my post was this:
Such maturity deserved a response equally fitting, so I piggybacked off of Enzom's sentiment where he called you out for only knowing one black person- a saintly thing!- with a hot take of my own. You then responded that I'm not worth your time.
If you were as mature as you're suddenly implying, that right there should have been the end of this nonsense regardless of whether or not I responded. But clearly you can't stand by your own conviction that I'm not worth your time (of which you didn't clarify that it was only based on the insinuation that your posts are shit) when I noted that you were making shitposts like this earlier in the thread:
Now, you are right that you didn't start out quoting anyone. Congrats! You were right on a pedantic technicality that you didn't start out shitposting by quoting anyone with hot takes. So thus, I amend my argument that you, well, started out by shitposting. If you have a problem with that, well, don't shitpost, or at least don't expect people to take you seriously when you immediately devolved the decorum of the thread of your own accord. If you can't stand the heat and all that.
By the way, I won the bet. I want my dollar by tomorrow.
Captin Quacker
Member
What pisses me off is this idea that everything should fair and equal when it's never been that way ever
What is it then ? What do you call an event where you restrict access to people based on the colour of their skin and their gender ?
This thread is actually a good example of the sort of shit you deal with when you try and talk about black issues at one of these sorts of meetings in a mixed environment.
My chef friend had nothing to do with the point about muslims getting the most shit from racists. And yea please look, it's truly awful, and a bit nerdy.
Phatosaurus
Member
Did Kid Kamikaze10 hire you to reply to me on his behalf? The lines between what is and isn't sarcasm is extremely blurred on NeoGaf.
Yaphett Kotto
Member
That is because you are using the word loaded with historical context to use against the people throwing this festival who would have been/are the oppressed in that historical context.
There is no equality in nature, that is definitely true.
The fact is the only way we can progress, in a society, is if there is equality before the law.
That means on public land, in public venues, nobody should be able to exclude someone else based on their race.
Your one black friend had dick all to do with the conversation other than "Look a black feels the same way I do. See I am right."
So have you complained about segregation in the past? Any issue with it before these horrible "blacks" did it?
So the solution would be more inequality for everyone and we are all happy? Or because somebody else was like this, I reserve now the right to be like this myself?