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[Honey Bunny]

https://www.pcgamer.com/baldurs-gate-3-has-ruined-starfield-for-me/

Bethesda's latest can't help but feel shallow by comparison.

On the face of it, Starfield's pitch is even more the stuff of childhood daydreams: an RPG where you can jump in a spaceship, fly anywhere in the galaxy, and set foot on hundreds of different planets. A hugely ambitious prospect—but if any studio has the resources and the experience to make something so enormous, it should be Bethesda. What we've got in Starfield, however, is an oddly bland and compromised version of that idea—and where Baldur's Gate 3 is a huge step forward, Starfield feels deeply stuck in the genre's past.

More at the link

 

[Elysium44]

Early on in the game, I discovered a laboratory frozen in ice, taken over by bandits. At first, I assumed I'd stumbled upon something equivalent to one of Fallout's Vaults—a self-contained story to pick through and piece together. Some small elements pointed in that direction—dead scientists scattered around, a series of emails with sinister implications, a fun little joke on the ice machine. But as I delved further, I couldn't seem to find any real depth, any unique items or interactable NPCs, or any kind of end goal to the area, and eventually I gave up a little baffled. Later, I discovered why this laboratory seemed so thin, when I encountered its exact duplicate on another planet. And then again on another planet. It wasn't a Vault, it was a block of content for the procedural generation algorithm to spit out as a backdrop for yet another bandit fight. After that, I started noticing the same phenomenon everywhere—even locations used for main quest missions repeat on random worlds, explaining why they're so uninspired in design.

Sad.

 

[tronied]

I love BG3, but I'm also really enjoying Starfield. I don't think the two naturally cancel each other out. To write an article about it just seems like doing it for the clicks.

Again, everyone is different so experiences may vary. I'd say both BG3 and Starfield are a win for gaming in general.

 

[Gaiff]

Starfield has ruined Starfield because it's incredibly boring.

 

[Thaedolus]

Yeah…dipping my toes into Starfield yesterday and it feels like more of the same, and spread out too thin. It’s not bad, it’s just feels like the same game we’ve been playing for the last 15 years with a bit more polish. BG3 feels like a legit next gen leap forward, and Starfield feels like a step back. I’ll keep playing, but one is definitely living up to the hype and the other isn’t.

 

[Venom Snake]

 

[Mister Wolf]

They are very different experiences. With games like Starfield and other open world/zone games with a lot of artificial padding I mainly just stick to the main quest and compelling side quests so I don't get burnt out.

 

[Dr. Suchong]

Play Stalefield first, then play Baldur's gate 3.
Problem will then be somewhat mitigated.
Or just skip Stalefield.

 

[RoboFu]

Take Starfield's quest design, for example. Though the game is ostensibly all about player freedom, in practice that's only the freedom to choose which thread you want to pull at next—once you've actually started a quest, you're strangely on rails. More often than not, there's only one way to complete whatever task you're assigned, and if that's something you're no good at or don't want to do (such as the many that involve breaking and entering), you're simply out of luck.

I do not disagree with alot of what he said in the article but i do disagree with this, but at the same time I do not blame him for thinking that.

Again the probelm comes from a lot of things being unbalanced. There is alot of different ways to take on a quest and they do have reprocussions down the line in your individual game but a lot of the perks or stats you have to have to do those are locked away for higher levels and most quests can be done simply by running passed or away from most enemies. Yes they will chase you, but not forever. the worlds are so big and you are so fast you can easily outrun anything. Which just keeps you underleveled and never obtaining those stats until much later.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

So silly. They both do very different things. And both can co-exist in their own niches.

Not sure why the hyperbole or negativity is necessary. Starfield is not a top down CRPG, BG3 is not an open-world simulation RPG spanning a galaxy of 1,000 planets.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

Play Stalefield first, then play Baldur's gate 3.
Problem will then be somewhat mitigated.
Or just skip Stalefield.

That's literally what I'm doing with Callisto Protocol and the Dead Space remake. Callisto is going first.

 

[amigastar]

So silly. They both do very different things. And both can co-exist in their own niches.

Not sure why the hyperbole or negativity is necessary. Starfield is not a top down CRPG, BG3 is not an open-world simulation RPG spanning a galaxy of 1,000 planets.

I see it the same way. I can have fun with both games.

 

[GHG]

Yep, said so in the review thread which explains why the PC only/centric outlets have tended to score Starfield on the lower end of the scale:

The PC only outlets are the ones giving this lower scores.

Funny what can happen when you have gone into reviewing Starfield off the back of BG3 which is a legitimate GOTY/game of the forever contender and you don't give a shit about propping up a console platform.

It's been hilarious witnessing the worth a buy youtube channel getting spammed with comments claiming he's a "Sony pony" or words to that effect.

 

[Raven117]

I think the two are very different and not quite comparable.

But hey, they did come out at roughly the same time, and if one prefers one or the other… then i guess the temptation to compare the two is there.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

I see it the same way. I can have fun with both games.

Right?! Like you go to both games expecting very different things. As you should.

 

[feynoob]

I need my bethesda to stay rpg. They strayed away from the path of rpg.

 

[Dr. Suchong]

That's literally what I'm doing with Callisto Protocol and the Dead Space remake. Callisto is going first.

Good plan.
That was my intention too. Callisto has fallen in price considerably lately, so I'll pick it up for around £10, then play the real deal afterwards

 

[Thirty7ven]

Games don’t exist in a vacuum, specially in similar genres. Fallout 4 suffered a lot because of Witcher 3, and now Starfield suffers because of BG3.

Maybe Bethesda should try to evolve.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

It’s a great way to capitalize on clicks at one game’s expense, and drive traffic to your site.

I think what annoys me the most about it is how cynical the whole thing seems.

 

[damidu]

pretty fortunate/unfortunate (however you look at it) for this to release in same month.
it pretty much highligted how dated everything about bethesda formula is by ten fold.

 

[Atrus]

Starfield is mass market drivel aimed at squeezing out money from the lowest denominator whereas BG3 was from an independent studio that still has a passion for evolving its hobby.

People talked about how Diablo 4 was not respecting player time or investment and in Starfield it’s basically the game. Run 7 minutes in one direction to get to a point of interest, get told that there’s a bounty near by and an npc needs my help. “Near” as it turns out is a 10 minute run in a different direction.

In a game with points of interest and empty procedurally generated terrain in between, there is no method to cut down on the mindless running across empty terrain. Even in real life we built rovers for that. Odds are that is gated behind some future paid for dlc because that would make business sense.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

Good plan.
That was my intention too. Callisto has fallen in price considerably lately, so I'll pick it up for around £10, then play the real deal afterwards

I got it as a gift and bought the DLC on a steep sale. Which I hear has the real ending. So I'll experience it all. I'm a few hours in and liking Callisto.

 

[Low Moral Fibre]

Starfield has ruined BG3 for me. I doubt I'll go back to BG this year.

 

[mrcroket]

They are totally different games, I don't like BG3 (I know is a great game, just not my type) but I love all the bethesda games and I'm enjoying starfield like a kid.

 

[The Cockatrice]

I reckon BG3 will ruin a lot of upcoming RPGs. If I were a company I'd be ashamed to call my game an RPG if its not as close as BG3. It's not a perfect game but it's certainly the top dog when it comes to its choices/rpg mechanics.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

This is a can of worms that never should've been opened.

 

[Schnauzer]

Personally, I was most excited about Starfield due to all the hype. I found myself putting it down after 4 hours and going back to BG3.

 

[NickFire]

It’s a great way to capitalize on clicks at one game’s expense, and drive traffic to your site.

I think what annoys me the most about it is how cynical the whole thing seems.

I've got no issues with big games getting compared when they release close in time. But the article title kind of suggests it was written for clicks instead of a true face off IMO,.

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

What a dumb take.

 

[Chukhopops]

What a weird comparison to make, aside from both being RPGs they are completely different from a game design point of view. That’s like saying Cyberpunk ruined Pathfinder.

Gotta make clicks I guess, with both coming out at the same time.

 

[KXVXII9X]

I know people say not to compare games, but I found myself feeling similarly when playing games like Baldur's Gate 3, and other games where I feel they set a new standard. This is a personal, subjective stance and it doesn't mean the other games suck. I also feel Zelda BotW/TotK ruined other games for me. Funny enough, I think it took some inspiration from Bethesda. All of these games seem to push and influence each other.

Bethesda probably started working on Starfield at a time when more people wouldn't have burnt out on the formula. I even remember back in Fallout 4, which I did enjoy, that people were already pointing out limitations and shallowness and wanting more depth like in Baldur's Gate 3. I got so annoyed at them back then, but now since I played more games, I understand their stance more. I remember that whole discourse was the start of me discovering CRPG's (aside from Deus Ex HR).

For the people who aren't as interested in CRPGs, or that kind of depth and like the open world action/RPG hybrid, will probably enjoy Starfield a lot more. Those other things won't be as much as an issue such as repeated content. For me, I think BG3 achieved my childhood dream of playing a video game where I have all of this freedom with all of these reactions and interactivity. I don't think all games should have this or be like BG3, but I think with games trying to incorporate roleplaying and choice could benefit from more dynamic systems and less static worlds and NPC.

 

[VideoGameEnjoyer]

They aren't very similar so it's not been a big deal for me. Though even with enjoying Starfield I've had to go back to BG3 a few times already.

Both fun games that don't detract from eachother for me. BG3 is in another league though.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I'm really glad I'm playing starfield first. My plan is playing out.

Cant wait to play bg3 soon. Its going to be glorious.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Why? How? They are completely different games.

 

[AV]

Frankly I'm surprised this headline didn't appear sooner. Not agreeing or disagreeing with it but this was always gonna happen.

 

[Punished Miku]

Frankly I'm surprised this headline didn't appear sooner. Not agreeing or disagreeing with it but this was always gonna happen.

Developers called it out months ago and everyone gave them shit. This just proves them right.

 

[GHG]

Developers called it out months ago and everyone gave them shit. This just proves them right.

Imagine sympathising with developers who don't want the bar to be raised out of fear of it making them look bad.

 

[Mortisfacio]

My plan was Starfield > CyberPunk expansion > BG3 maybe sometime later. Friends convinced me to get BG3, now I love BG3 so much and haven't finished so I haven't checked out Starfield yet. Might end up being for the best. Maybe some patching/mods to fix minor issues by the time I get my first Starfield impression.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

I've got no issues with big games getting compared when they release close in time. But the article title kind of suggests it was written for clicks instead of a true face off IMO,.

Absolutely. Clearly seemed like it wasn’t written up in good faith to me.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Why? How? They are completely different games.

Games media is dying, so gotta come up with creative ways to drive clicks to your site, including silly hyperbole and copy pasta nonsense.

 

[Topher]

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Play Stalefield first, then play Baldur's gate 3.
Problem will then be somewhat mitigated.
Or just skip Stalefield.

. I assume you haven’t actually played Starfield.

 

[diffusionx]

Early on in the game, I discovered a laboratory frozen in ice, taken over by bandits. At first, I assumed I'd stumbled upon something equivalent to one of Fallout's Vaults—a self-contained story to pick through and piece together. Some small elements pointed in that direction—dead scientists scattered around, a series of emails with sinister implications, a fun little joke on the ice machine. But as I delved further, I couldn't seem to find any real depth, any unique items or interactable NPCs, or any kind of end goal to the area, and eventually I gave up a little baffled. Later, I discovered why this laboratory seemed so thin, when I encountered its exact duplicate on another planet. And then again on another planet. It wasn't a Vault, it was a block of content for the procedural generation algorithm to spit out as a backdrop for yet another bandit fight. After that, I started noticing the same phenomenon everywhere—even locations used for main quest missions repeat on random worlds, explaining why they're so uninspired in design.

I just can't play games that are set up like this anymore. It's not worth the time.

 

[Wildebeest]

Developers called it out months ago and everyone gave them shit. This just proves them right.

The developer complaining makes games with 8-bit graphics that don't compete even vaguely compete with the original Fallout in terms of budget and scope, and BGS had a large budget and track record even compared to Larian. If anything, this proves the opposite of the point he was making.

 

[Punished Miku]

The developer complaining makes games with 8-bit graphics that don't compete even vaguely compete with the original Fallout in terms of budget and scope, and BGS had a large budget and track record even compared to Larian. If anything, this proves the opposite of the point he was making.

Thats really not the point. The perfect is not the enemy of the fantastic. Its an incredibly reductive and juvenile way to look at anything. Your loss. Wait around for Larian's next game then since thats all you can stomach playing.

 

[GymWolf]

I usually laugh when people say this, but in this very case i can fully understand, unless you really hate turn based combat or isometric view.

Not a jab at starfield but it is what it is.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Starfield really damaged a lot of people

 

[Adam_802]

Lol people fall for clickbait so hard.

 

[Wildebeest]

Thats really not the point. The perfect is not the enemy of the fantastic. Its an incredibly reductive and juvenile way to look at anything. Your loss. Wait around for Larian's next game then since thats all you can stomach playing.

I care more about ideas than graphics and voice acting, so I always eat well, I'm never content starved.