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[anthraticus]

Strong disagree here... the Gold Box games (well, at their best: Pool of Radiance, and the fantastic Unlimited Adventures community) feel much more authentically D&D.

That's mainly because they use 2e rules, so they actually handle things like morale correctly (shock a couple of the monsters with a brutal takedown and the rest of them might begin to flee, or even panic depending on the level differences; removing morale checks in battle was one of the worst changes made by 5e).

Having a 2e system also means much more of a "squad tactics" approach; old-school AD&D did not follow the corny approach of the new rules where "every character is a badass." Instead, you have to strategically protect your weaker members, bulid a front wall to your party with the slower but more armored members, move carefully, etc -- because it's guaranteed that even higher level mages can be obliterated easily if a foe reaches them. Different classes of the party absolutely need each other to survive, instead of this nonsense where everyone is tearing through the battlefield.

Pool of Radiance is also more classically sandbox-like, with a huge world of different directions to take and very few pre-set story beats to guide you. This is how D&D modules used to be written. I prefer that over the newer idea that "a module is a narrative and you just get to rearrange the path through that narrative."

Didn't see this post dude. Sounds like you might know about Ray Dyer's 'Realms' series in FRUA, but if not, you or anyone else should def check it out...(especially if that gay elf and bear sex got you down

)

https://www.flopsyville.com/Bravenet-TheRealm/Menu.htm

(Click West, East, South & Final Diamond to see all of the available campaigns of The Realm.)
Recommended levels are listed for each module, in the North, South, East and West (which comprises about 33 of them). Ray also made another concurrent campaign of 7 or so called Realm Adventures that are meant to be played in order. We're talking classic here like Horror on the Hill, the original Ravenloft, Tomb of Horrors etc..!!

There's an entire campaign from level 1 to past 20 you can take the same party through, and he does things like removes the level cap for races and classes, so you can take your own, unique party straight through all the modules.

What you need to do in short is pick either West, East or South to start in, download and complete the campaigns from that list (you can also pick and choose a bit, as you want) and then when done with that head to the Final Diamond (North). Those are your higher level design areas.

 

[Sensates]

The two best next gen RPGS !!!

As soon as I stepped on Alpha Centauri and saw those trees, I'm out. Utterly awful and ppl actually defending that.

 

[anthraticus]

Alpha Centauri ? Amazing game and the much better option over Turdfield

(with Kyrub's amazing patch, of course)

 

[AlphaMale]

Well, if Starfield has shit sales numbers, then expect it to come out on PS5 by Christmas.
(and Microsoft will make it sound like they're being the good guys doing this)

 

[GetInTheRobot]

BG3 is like a good play while Starfield is like a good hike. two different kinds of rpgs...but one is centered around exploration the other is around choices. In bg3 im a power hungry tifling who wants to gain power to help his people seek equality and will screw over anyone to do that. In starfield I'm a bounty hunter looking to make a quick dime after a tough upbringing. Both games deliver to some extent on this role play in very different ways. All in all BG3 is the better game but I don't think its really a slight against starfield. Like BG3 is arguably the best rpg ever made...

Critical Role captures exactly what I hate about newer D&D.

If you watch them play, it's basically "drama club nerds who need their character and acting to be the center of attention."

Classic D&D wasn't a hang-out for drama-class rejects. It was a game borne of guys who loved tactical wargames, and who would recreate battles or historical maps on a table, who knew obscure things about French polearm weapons or loved to debate the stats of mounted attacks on different terrain--mixed with a love of hefty lore from things like Lord of the Rings. That's a totally different demographic than the one playing 5e.

Nah I like the drama nerd rejects, the voices, the immersion...thats what makes it the most fun...good thing about d n d is theres a group that plays in many ways.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I love BG3, but I'm also really enjoying Starfield. I don't think the two naturally cancel each other out. To write an article about it just seems like doing it for the clicks.

Again, everyone is different so experiences may vary. I'd say both BG3 and Starfield are a win for gaming in general.

It's not clickbait bro both hugely anticipated rpg's that came out within a week. It's as natural comparison as someone can make.

 

[Dazraell]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if BG3 will steal thunder from Starfield during awards time, especially in RPG genre category. It's hilarious this is literally the second time it happened to Bethesda. Last time this happened was when they released Fallout 4 in a same year when The Witcher 3 was released

 

[twilo99]

Except I was playing it a month earlier than my PS5-only buddy on PC

I think for a lot of people PC doesn’t exist as a platform, or they just choose to believe that it’s not real, so if it’s not on Xbox or PlayStation, the game simply doesn’t register.

 

[Xenon]

I'm getting Dark Soul/Bloodborne flashbacks...

 

[nowhat]

Baldaurs gate doesn't have the capability of stacking a thousand potatoes in a room and fucking around with them.

No, but you can get a bear in a room and fuck with them. So there's that.

 

[Dice]

It's disappointing compared to a revelatory experience like Baldur's Gate 3, but it's not even really living up to Bethesda's own standards either. 15 years ago, Fallout 3 had more interesting environments than this, full of computers to hack, turrets and robots to take control of, unique notes and audiologs to find, traps to subvert, and factions to side with. I've made fun of Bethesda's approach to environmental storytelling before (we should aspire to greater subtlety than two posed skeletons with a note next to them) but at least it was storytelling. Starfield is a world of repeating rooms full of angry bandits and randomised loot.

This is the point where I stop believing he's actually playing the game. Another clickbait trash article filled with falsehoods from PC Gamer. I mean if you're going the clickbait trash route you could at least add some real flavor to it like Kotaku does. This guy is just bitching at clouds as an excuse to pimp BG3.

 

[FalconPunch]

Makes space seem like a boring, barren expanse

It’s wild how a sentence can at the same time be completely obvious and yet entirely wrong in the context of Starfield.

Starfield is legitimately a boring game especially if you are playing it for space stuff. The voice acting is also low key bad. It’s a poorly designed game with copy and pasted content that for doesn’t respect my time. For me, it’s a 5/10 at best. I already uninstalled from my pc and I purchased baldurs gate 3 on steam.

 

[Chukhopops]

Starfield is legitimately a boring game especially if you are playing it for space stuff. The voice acting is also low key bad. It’s a poorly designed game with copy and pasted content that for doesn’t respect my time. For me, it’s a 5/10 at best. I already uninstalled from my pc and I purchased baldurs gate 3 on steam.

I respect your opinion but it still makes no sense to compare them when they don’t share any design goal or gameplay structure.

The only way to compare them is to choose an arbitrary metric and say one does it more or less than the other.

The purpose of the article is to capitalize on the only two hot topics of gaming at the moment and get clicks.

 

[Black_Stride]

How do these people play any two games in a year?

Play Doom Eternal and every other FPS is ruined.....but I still be playing Battlefield cuz even if they are in the same genre, they play very differently and scratch different itches.

Id argue that Starfield and Baldurs Gate are even further apart and comparing them seems silly..........but you know.

 

[FunkMiller]

Frankly, I’m much preferring Starfield. All that fiddly, endless menus shit in BG3 and the tiny man CRPG stuff put me right off.

 

[simpatico]

Lawl try playing both then

Do the girl bosses become less sassy and shatter less preconceived notions when you play it?

 

[AV]

After 8 hours of Starfield following 150 hours of BG3 it's... quite easy to see why someone might have this opinion. The things the two games have in common are worse across the board in Starfield. Not to say the game is bad, it isn't. It's just been somewhat upstaged.

Still, they're very different experiences, even if both have branching dialogue, extensive VA, loot etc. And it's not putting me off playing at all, I just have to remind myself that not every game is going to be BG3 going forward.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

The two best next gen RPGS !!!

 

[Thaedolus]

Do the girl bosses become less sassy and shatter less preconceived notions when you play it?

Those are the faults you were talking about? JFC I was thinking like…they both have dialogue choices and BG3’s are way more fleshed out and impactful, while Starfield’s are 90% “would you like to know more?”

 

[Orbital2060]

PC Gamer has been trash for a long while now. Shit writing, and the site seem obsessed with trolling Xbox, like so many other sites at the moment.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Do the girl bosses become less sassy and shatter less preconceived notions when you play it?

You know, i can tell you only read/watched some youtuber opinion on the game to say this. Some of the companions in BG3, male or female, will worship the ground you walk on if you raise their approval enough. If they act like ass you can tell it to their faces, sometimes with positive outcomes for that, there's no "girl boss showing the boys how its done" here.

 

[Thaedolus]

PC Gamer has been trash for a long while now. Shit writing, and the site seem obsessed with trolling Xbox, like so many other sites at the moment.

And here I am playing neither of these games on console and not giving a rat’s ass about muh sclusives and thinking yeah BG3 kinda ruined Starfield for me….

 

[Tomeru]

Starfield really damaged a lot of people

I don't know if thats the correct word, but I get the sentiment. Everyone has at least one time when they get baffled with a reception a game has.

Edit:
It happened with D4 too. I'm sure you remember people dismissing reviews and opinion because reasons (like not getting to worlt t3 or t4 thats when the real game starts).

Thats just how it is.

 

[Doctor Hades]

I am enjoying Starfield but I also think that I might have had a higher opinion of the game if it had been released months before Baldur's Gate 3.

Starfield does feel dated in aspects of its designs, with inconsistent character faces (some look good, others look dreadful), some god-awful lighting (what's with the horrible washed out colours?) and all those loading screens, even if they are mostly 1-2 seconds at most on my PC. The writing and dialogue also isn't as good in Starfield and there is a lack of interesting personalities among the people you recruit as crew. They have stories and things to tell you and the voice-acting is perfectly competent. They never come across as believable people, just video game characters but that is a problem that all of Bethesda's games have had in my opinion. Most of their writing and characters are completely forgettable.

The Witcher 3 and now Baldur's Gate 3 showcase how good characters, story and dialogue can be in a RPG. Baldur's Gate 3 also gives the player a staggering amount of choice in how to play the game which is what people want from a role-playing game. Not to say that Starfield is a bad game, I have enjoyed it a lot for the 45 hours I've played it so far, but in my honest opinion it looks and plays like a game that should have come out 5-10 years ago.

On the plus side, Starfield does have good combat, which is significantly more enjoyable than any of their previous games. I do prefer the more tactical turned-based combat in Baldur's Gate 3 though as it allows you to stop and think about how to approach each one and makes them more memorable because of it.

 

[Orbital2060]

People should just be happy that we - by way of some weird coincidence - have gotten brand new entries in three different genres of roleplaying games: Diablo 4 (ARPG), Baldurs Gate 3 (CRPG), and Starfield (1st person RPG), at the same time this year.

There is no need to try and pit them against each other. We should just be happy that they all exist, and enjoy them for what they are.

 

[BlackTron]

I'm about to start the massive Starfield download but I'm glad I read all the impressions first so I "know how to play it". I would have gone into a big space exploration RPG game with many planets trying to well...explore everything. Especially coming in with a mindset conditioned by Zelda.

Turns out you are better off keeping the thing "on rails" and not veering too far off what they tell you do in order to avoid boredom and disappointment. The game appears to have merit, but not really at what they postured it to be, which is not good for its reputation, and baffling for a game from this studio, in this genre, about space. I'm ready to take it for what it is though.

 

[Chukhopops]

I'm about to start the massive Starfield download but I'm glad I read all the impressions first so I "know how to play it". I would have gone into a big space exploration RPG game with many planets trying to well...explore everything. Especially coming in with a mindset conditioned by Zelda.

Turns out you are better off keeping the thing "on rails" and not veering too far off what they tell you do in order to avoid boredom and disappointment. The game appears to have merit, but not really at what they postured it to be, which is not good for its reputation, and baffling for a game from this studio, in this genre, about space. I'm ready to take it for what it is though.

Depends what you want really. Going on random planets and visiting random locations to me is the equivalent of just playing FO4 to scavenge stuff and explore the world. Most of the time you’ll get encounters, things to scan etc.

If you want more storylines you should focus on quests (not necessarily the main one) and activities. There are also tons of them and they’re more focused on characters, lore etc.

 

[simpatico]

You know, i can tell you only read/watched some youtuber opinion on the game to say this. Some of the companions in BG3, male or female, will worship the ground you walk on if you raise their approval enough. If they act like ass you can tell it to their faces, sometimes with positive outcomes for that, there's no "girl boss showing the boys how its done" here.

I don't care for any of the video content you're talking about, despite agreeing with the spirit of their arguments. Just not entertaining. Basing my hypothesis on clips I've seen on X. BG3, to be fair, is less jarring since magic exists in their world. I don't know who's who in the videos I've seen, but assuming they're very adept at fighting magic it wouldn't make me eye roll too hard. Starfield on the other hand seems brutal in that regard. Every outlaw ship is captained by a lady. Fallout 4 suffered from this as well, but it's all been modded out thankfully. BG3 and Starfield will both be among the best games of the gen and I plan on buying both at full price. Waiting on a rig upgrade for Starfield and waiting on my winter break for BG3. Bethesda games probably have my highest hour count of any studio working today. Replaying FO4 right now with the pandering modded out and having a great time doing so.



Can you watch this video and still stand by your comment? Does this stuff not make you audibly groan when stumbling across it during gameplay?

 

[Guilty_AI]

I don't care for any of the video content you're talking about, despite agreeing with the spirit of their arguments. Just not entertaining. Basing my hypothesis on clips I've seen on X. BG3, to be fair, is less jarring since magic exists in their world. I don't know who's who in the videos I've seen, but assuming they're very adept at fighting magic it wouldn't make me eye roll too hard. Starfield on the other hand seems brutal in that regard. Every outlaw ship is captained by a lady. Fallout 4 suffered from this as well, but it's all been modded out thankfully. BG3 and Starfield will both be among the best games of the gen and I plan on buying both at full price. Waiting on a rig upgrade for Starfield and waiting on my winter break for BG3. Bethesda games probably have my highest hour count of any studio working today. Replaying FO4 right now with the pandering modded out and having a great time doing so.



Can you watch this video and still stand by your comment? Does this stuff not make you audibly groan when stumbling across it during gameplay?

Keep in mind i'm refering to BG3 specifically, can't say much for Starfield.

But you can't tell me a game with a scene like this is throwing around "girl bosses" for the sake of "shattering expectations" or any other shit like that.



And then this is one of the main villains:



Women who can show vulnerability just as well as men who can be badasses and leaders, and of course, you'll also find plenty of moments where the opposite also happens, often coming from the very same characters, aka normal people with both their strong and weak moments.

I don't know who the hell started this bullshit idea BG3 writing is woke, but they sure as hell didn't play it, are extremely oversensitive or bare-faced liars. All you'll find here is just perfectly normal - and good - storytelling.

 

[simpatico]

Keep in mind i'm refering to BG3 specifically, can't say much for Starfield.

But you can't tell me a game with a scene like this is throwing around "girl bosses" for the sake of "shattering expectations" or any other shit like that.



And then this is one of the main villains:



Women who can show vulnerability just as well as men who can be badasses and leaders, and of course, you'll also find plenty of moments where the opposite also happens, often coming from the very same characters, aka normal people with both their strong and vulnerable moments.

I don't know who the hell started this bullshit narrative BG3 writing is woke. Its just perfectly normal - and good - storytelling.

Glad to hear it. Like I said, the magic makes it less jarring. It's not just female characters in general. Morrigan in Dragon Age, Jesse in Control, Alyx in Half Life, all great stuff. Seems like I was off base on the BG3 impressions after giving it more thought and seeing some more clips. Been trying to limit that to save it all for my playthrough. I guess these days I'm expecting the worst.

 

[cartman414]

Another one of those mile wide, inch deep deals. * shrugs *

 

[ANDS]

Some of these posts where folks just can't quite figure out why these games are being compared are weird. There are any number of things that you can compare the two games on but I'll list the big two: narrative and player agency. BG3 utterly embarrasses SF. This is from someone with 100HRS in both, but only having reached "Act II" in BG3. The amount of choice and variance in the first act alone (hell the first few hours of the game), puts anything in SF to shame. There's literally NOTHING on this level in SF. You can't talk about having an engaging open-world without discussing the actual world building and SF fails spectacularly hard in areas that BG3 makes it look effortless.

Like I remember finally dragging my crew in BG3 (whom I actually grew to like - even the annoying ones) to Act II but deciding at the last minute to do Lazeal's quest. This was a character I fully intended to bin; the Creche turned out to be one of my favorite sidequests in the game and Lazeal totally grew on me with their believable character growth from annoying see-you-next-Tuesday to "Oh shit, this chick is carrying some weight!" All in the span of ONE sidequest. . .that I haven't even seen the end of.

Contrast with any of the one-note companions you find in SF, who all wear their tropes on their sleeves, offer zero surprises as you get to know their characters and do not meaningfully interact with one another. There's a sequence in the game that's all about comradery and the shared fellowship of Constellation and I'm like "When did all this happen?" The game TELLS you this is a tight knit team with deep interpersonal relationships, but it sure as shit didn't show it to you.

. . .PC Gamer is for sure up its own ass with, well ANYTHING else they report out on, but a broken clock is right twice a day. BG3 eats SF's lunch in any way that matters (and is reasonably measured between the two).

 

[Catphish]

Some of these posts where folks just can't quite figure out why these games are being compared are weird. There are any number of things that you can compare the two games on but I'll list the big two: narrative and player agency. BG3 utterly embarrasses SF. This is from someone with 100HRS in both, but only having reached "Act II" in BG3. The amount of choice and variance in the first act alone (hell the first few hours of the game), puts anything in SF to shame. There's literally NOTHING on this level in SF. You can't talk about having an engaging open-world without discussing the actual world building and SF fails spectacularly hard in areas that BG3 makes it look effortless.

Like I remember finally dragging my crew in BG3 (whom I actually grew to like - even the annoying ones) to Act II but deciding at the last minute to do Lazeal's quest. This was a character I fully intended to bin; the Creche turned out to be one of my favorite sidequests in the game and Lazeal totally grew on me with their believable character growth from annoying see-you-next-Tuesday to "Oh shit, this chick is carrying some weight!" All in the span of ONE sidequest. . .that I haven't even seen the end of.

Contrast with any of the one-note companions you find in SF, who all wear their tropes on their sleeves, offer zero surprises as you get to know their characters and do not meaningfully interact with one another. There's a sequence in the game that's all about comradery and the shared fellowship of Constellation and I'm like "When did all this happen?" The game TELLS you this is a tight knit team with deep interpersonal relationships, but it sure as shit didn't show it to you.

. . .PC Gamer is for sure up its own ass with, well ANYTHING else they report out on, but a broken clock is right twice a day. BG3 eats SF's lunch in any way that matters (and is reasonably measured between the two).

100% agreed on all points. The depth of the characters and the complexity of the decision branching are, in my experience, unprecedented in video gaming, and completely refreshing. Going from that to what's on offer in Starfield is, well, disappointing, to say the least.

 

[twilo99]

I think the main difference between the two games, besides the obvious, is that if you are going for multiple playthroughs with BG3 you can certainly pick different characters, and every time there will some different things that you discover, but ultimately you can’t really deviate from the main trajectory/path, so experiencing the same chain of main events, where with Starfield you can have a very different experience by picking different questlines, discovering new locations, etc.,

But maybe I’m wrong since I haven’t finished either game, it’s just from what I’ve seen thus far.

 

[Ivory Samoan]

Starfield has ruined BG3 for me. I doubt I'll go back to BG this year.

I've never heard this one, how has it achieved this for you?

 

[Low Moral Fibre]

I've never heard this one, how has it achieved this for you?

I'm not sure I understand the question.. I'd much rather play Starfield so I'm playing that. It's not that Starfield is the greatest game of all time but it's just want I wanted, another Bethesda exploration heavy game that lets you mess around in a million different ways.

BG3 has the same problem all Larian games have. Really strong start then gets more and more rushed and incomplete the further you go. Act 1 was honestly one of the best things I've ever played in the entire time I've been gaming. Act 2 was mediocre but with a some real 10/10 moments mixed in and what I've played of Act 3 I don't want to play any more. I'll wait for the Director's Cut they normally release.

Part of the problem is if you are used to CRPGs then BG3 is so mechanically simple thanks to D&D 5e that there are no much point making builds as everything is a cakewalk even on the hardest difficult - it makes a combat focused section like Act 2 really boring as you are just walking through hordes of enemies with zero effort. I'm at a point where every fight goes the same way and I don't have to rest or use consumables. Some people seem to love Act 2 but I would guess they are CRPG novices who find the combat challenging and who found found Act 1 had too much talking. For me it's the opposite - Act 2 really put me off the game as I found it a slog.

Starfield has no peaks that compare to Act 1 BG3 - not even close - but it's just consistently doing it's thing so doesn't have any troughs like I found BG3 Act 2 to be.

 

[Sensates]

I think there's very few gamesa that can rival against the depths of BG3. Starfield is unfortunate to release right after so comparison is inevitable.

Problem for me is how after years of development Bethesda releases something so lazy and outdated and people celebrated it. BG3 is a sign of progression, SF not even tried.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

Didn't see this post dude. Sounds like you might know about Ray Dyer's 'Realms' series in FRUA, but if not, you or anyone else should def check it out...(especially if that gay elf and bear sex got you down

)

https://www.flopsyville.com/Bravenet-TheRealm/Menu.htm

(Click West, East, South & Final Diamond to see all of the available campaigns of The Realm.)
Recommended levels are listed for each module, in the North, South, East and West (which comprises about 33 of them). Ray also made another concurrent campaign of 7 or so called Realm Adventures that are meant to be played in order. We're talking classic here like Horror on the Hill, the original Ravenloft, Tomb of Horrors etc..!!

There's an entire campaign from level 1 to past 20 you can take the same party through, and he does things like removes the level cap for races and classes, so you can take your own, unique party straight through all the modules.

What you need to do in short is pick either West, East or South to start in, download and complete the campaigns from that list (you can also pick and choose a bit, as you want) and then when done with that head to the Final Diamond (North). Those are your higher level design areas.

In fact, this is what I've been playing the past month : )

It's a pure joy, and each time I start a campaign I download the corresponding original module PDF from archive.org, so that I can read along just after each area and compare his faithfulness to the source material. Playing it that way, it's also a fantastic source of prep if you want to run some of these old modules as DM.