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[Finalizer]

Just gonna repost a relevant post from another thread a while back, giving a nice little breakdown of why digital has been able to take off in other industries while console gaming is still largely retail-driven:

[...]video revenue is still primarily driven by discs, and total disc sales aren't shrinking quite yet.

But secondly, games are so far behind precisely because of accessibility, pricing, and convenience issues in their business models -- i.e. exactly the stuff that's wrong with the Xbox One approach. The success of digital distribution in every medium was tied to the arrival of specific platforms that a) competed in an open marketplace and b) provided a concrete, easily understandable sales proposition that was equivalently or more desirable to the physical one.

In music, people got a taste for digital music via Napster, then iTMS drove paid adoption by providing a convenient (and eventually, DRM-free) way to easily download music and then play it anywhere. Now the innovation is in streaming services like Spotify that represent a convenient bargain for heavy-volume users.

In video, the only places that have taken off all offer similar value propositions: iTunes again (and to a lesser degree, Amazon) for permanent sales, and Netflix for a low-price and convenient streaming option.

In books, basically nobody took ebooks seriously until Amazon provided both the physical means to read them and a convenient storefront, while still allowing you to load books from elsewhere onto your Kindle.

On smartphones, apps took off because of their extremely low price, the convenient usage restrictions (any number of devices simultaneously), and the near-guaranteed cross-compatibility that allowed a single purchase to span multiple generations of phones and tablets.

Digital enthusiast games aren't on the level of acceptance that any of these other media have, but the closest they've gotten is via Steam and other PC storefronts, and the reason why is exactly the same as these other platforms: the right combination of openness, convenience, reliability, and price to make digital competitive with physical. To do that effectively for all content, the console manufacturers would have to make some pretty significant changes to their business models, and I don't think either of them is ready to do that seriously yet.

And of course, the ever-relevant Jimquisition video on why PC gaming gets away with all-digital compared to consoles is good viewing for any who haven't seen it yet.

So please, stuff the "digital is inevitable" argument. It will be resisted if it's not on consumers' terms, just look at the Xbone DRM reversal that happened not even half a year ago for the perfect example.

 

[demolitio]

Personally, I don't think it's infuriating. However, I do think it demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding about what went wrong, and doesn't seem to properly accept the amount of responsibility they have for why their vision wasn't met with resounding applause. The sentence "I do feel like we never got a chance to have a rational conversation about what we were trying to do" I think shows a certain lack of humility on their part to understand that the idea may have been fundamentally flawed, and instead there's a desire to spin it as though they were just ahead of their time. Now, does this send me into a rage and have me wanting to call him foul names? No. But it does strike me as a situation where I don't think he truly "gets it."

Exactly. I'm not pissed at them but it tells me they haven't learned anything throughout the whole debacle and it gives me little faith that they won't try this stupid shit again once people are already roped in because they clearly don't get what the problem was.

The conversation didn't exist because MS didn't even allow it to exist. Cancelling all interviews outside of a few PR interviews trying to sell us on the cloud as the reason why it's good? Yea, that's not a conversation if we're forced to listen from what amounts to a propaganda speaker because a conversation involves both sides.

 

[Vashetti]

It's no wonder Hyrb and Penello are acting weird: the platform they're standing on is falling apart.

I guess you could say they're not balancing hard enough.

 

[Nebula]

What is exactly so infuriating he is saying? I'm missing it.

Snatched microphone. Asked the interviewer a dumbass question and his attitude was just shit in general.

 

[Arkanius]

An all digital future with retail isn't going to happen.

Steam would like a talk with you
We are loving it in this camp

 

[HueyFreeman]

"People just weren't ready for an Xbox division" - Microsoft investors

for real. XB needs to be very careful about how they handle this gen, for the sake of their own livelihood. Statements like this don't do anyone any favors.

 

[Midas]

I wish they did go all digital.

It would have taught them how wrong they were in a massive way.

I kind of wanted to see the mess it would've been if they did. I'm glad for gamers that they didn't though.

 

[Brandson]

All-digital works for Steam, iOS, and Android, because those platforms have a decent history of maintaining support for older software on newer devices. They don't have a history of terminating their online DRM-riddled services like MS and Sony do (MS and Sony have done this numerous times in fields other than gaming too).

If MS and Sony can both demonstrate going from the current Xbox One and PS4 to whatever comes next while continuing to support existing digital purchases on the next-next gen platforms, then I think we'll be ready for an all-digital console. This might actually be possible next time if they continue to go with X86-based platforms. They all need to earn some good will to instill some confidence that whatever you buy digitally will continue to work for many generations to come. They're certainly not in that position yet.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

So many people are up in arms about this now, and hate Microsoft for saying anything relating to this "future," but it's going to happen whether you complain about it or not. If you continue to want to play and enjoy video games as a hobby, you're going to either have to accept it or find a new hobby, because it is the reality and it is going to happen. And it isn't just games, it's the same thing with all entertainment mediums.

As someone that loves Steam and PC gaming, and digital entertainment, I find all of this drama to be pretty meaningless.

It may be inevitable, but I think companies are going to have to continue to make their case for why consumers are better off. The notion that consumers can't fight city hall isn't necessarily the most constructive sentiment. I think this is particularly true in this industry. It's not as though hardware and software manufactures in the gaming industry are holding all the power here. They very much need consumers more than consumers need them.

 

[LAA]

I do understand what he's saying actually. I still don't quite know what the benefits were to the DRM system. To have a restrictive system like that, there would surely be a benefit to that, and it was something that we don't quite know. Totally MS's fault though, even at E3 they didnt do into the benefits.

Whether it'll happen in the future... It's probably been pushed back now seeing the criticism it has got now, ha ha. I think our internet environments need to improve a lot more before it makes sense to us. Maybe they are right, but they should have done the research and known we werent ready.

I'm actually hoping MS bombs with X1 for one reason (and no not for pettiness), simply because I want to see their dedication to the platform to improve it. Like Sony with PS3, they could have left it there and then and look at it now, turned right around. MS hasnt quite been in that situation yet, and want to see how they will handle it.

 

[PaulExcellent]

Dammit, Albert.
You have to learn that sometimes there are ideas so terrible that aren't worth the hassle.
Hell, Microsoft going with the "all-digital" idea backfired already. Why try again?

 

[Wolves Evolve]

Of course you didnt get a chance to have a conversation about it.

You cancelled 99% of your interviews after you announced the policy! And the only interviews you did give before back tracking included gems like "if you want to play offline we have a product for you, the xbox 360".

Ahaha I forgot about the interview cancellations! What the fuck is he talking about?

 

[Lordwindowlicker]

Steam would like a talk with you
We are loving it in this camp

The difference is that Steam is just one option on an open platform. That's why I use Steam, but I had no intention of buying an Xbox One once their DRM policy was announced.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

If console games become digital only sacrifices will have to be made to the visual fidelity of games. Much like MP3 vs CD and digital movies vs Bluray and I would never want that to happen to games. Right now we have 50gb downloadable games only because there is a choice to buy the disc. But if everyone is forced to download games then the size of games will have to be reduced.

 

[ReDelicious]

See I don't mind that so much.

If everything was 100% digital you could see the benefits for some and the problem for others. More importantly you could just make the choice about how you want to buy your games.

The always online thing was the big problem. That isn't something that improves with infrastructure or gets better with time. That will *always* be a bad idea because your games are at the mercy of Microsoft keeping their servers running, which is not something you can rely on.

So I don't buy the "not ready" argument. Some people are ready for digital and Microsoft can choose to sell to them. Nobody should ever be ready for forced authentication checks to play games and there is no future where I want that to happen.

I'll evaluate where they are at with their console after this generation and see if they have learned.

Yeah as long as we have a choice it's not as much of a problem, I just hope that they don't jump the gun and go 100% digital too soon.

 

[Dang0]

I don't buy this bs that a digital future meqns an always online future. I mean iOS is digital only, and I can still play most of my iOS games offline.

 

[rudieboy77]

"People just weren't ready for all digital Xbox One"

But they are for an all digital steam box.

 

[Hyunashi]

50GB downloads? Yea I dont think so.

 

[FinalStageBoss]

Oh Albert.

Lol @ people weren't ready to go digital. Why do so many people love steam? More like people didn't want to deal with their piece of garbage DRM riddled console.

 

[silver.tongue]

That settles it.

I like Yusif and the Major.

Not a fan of Pennello or Spencer. :/

 

[Nerfon]

The vision was simple double profits controlling not just sale price but also after sale value of the product

 

[BabeSlayer]

This is the same arguments people have made about "all digital" book sales.

I for one want the all digital future and all my xbox one purchase will be digital. I love how some of you concede that it is "inevitable" yet shout down Microsoft for claiming to be ahead of their time...if it is inevitable and they were going to do it, by definition they are ahead of their time, but I guess it is easier to talk out of both sides of your mouth that actually admit MS might have a point...

Maybe their solution wasn't the best, fine I can live with that...but I still wish it was the goal, I wish PS4 was doing the same. I want the digital future and I want it now.

Haters gonna hate. Adapt or die....

(full disclaimer was totally on the other side of this argument with books...only recently bought a kindle and am completely sold on digital media consumption now)

 

[Killing_Joke]

All digital isn't happening anytime soon. They can spit "future" all they want. But i don't expect it this gen or the next. I can't even imagine the file sizes when 4k becomes norm. As a gamer i always want both options. I have no idea why anyone would be excited about the idea of all digital for consoles.

 

[Shandy]

What's with the lame revisionism? Penello, please. You know it was never about digital vs. physical. Besides, the Xbox One wasn't some high-concept idea that people needed to spend time with to understand. You tried some really unpleasant junk and, surpriiiiiise, people weren't so brainwashed that they'd just suck it up with a smile on their face, asking for more.

 

[Fedele]

For fuck's sake, seriously, Penello... still repeating this "we're too ahead of the curve" PR talk?

I'm feeling lazy about even starting to talk about how many mistakes were made around the

Spoiler

next watercooler

Xbox One. And I was a HEAVY Microsoft supporter since the original Xbox.

Simply put: we may even want to go full digital, but not in the MS way. They deserve every single missed sale, and I honestly hope this console fails hard.

Spoiler

Now I'll just wait for someone to say Microsoft full digital vision = Steam. Give me a fucking break.

 

[SmackAttack]

I don't want a digital only future MS, especially yours with restrictions telling me when and how to play games that I bought. Why is is so hard to have both? I'd much rather buy a physical copy than use up hdd space for no reason but to just have it there. No thanks.

"I do feel like we never got a chance to have a rational conversation about what we were trying to do," Penello told Engadget.

You had literally ANY chance you wanted to say so, but you didn't. That's on you.

 

[Curufinwe]

This is the same arguments people have made about "all digital" book sales.

I for one want the all digital future and all my xbox one purchase will be digital. I love how some of you concede that it is "inevitable" yet shout down Microsoft for claiming to be ahead of their time...if it is inevitable and they were going to do it, by definition they are ahead of their time, but I guess it is easier to talk out of both sides of your mouth that actually admit MS might have a point...

Maybe their solution wasn't the best, fine I can live with that...but I still wish it was the goal, I wish PS4 was doing the same. I want the digital future and I want it now.

Haters gonna hate. Adapt or die....

(full disclaimer was totally on the other side of this argument with books...only recently bought a kindle and am completely sold on digital media consumption now)

EBooks aren't 50 GB and you don't need to be online to read ebooks you own.

Come up with a better analogy.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I for one want the all digital future and all my xbox one purchase will be digital. I love how some of you concede that it is "inevitable" yet shout down Microsoft for claiming to be ahead of their time...if it is inevitable and they were going to do it, by definition they are ahead of their time, but I guess it is easier to talk out of both sides of your mouth that actually admit MS might have a point...

I'm really having difficulty trying to make sense of this.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Of course digital is the future. What MS execs have done wrong was to force it on people rather than letting the people decide. Why is it so hard for them to see that?

Excellent summary; I fully agree. Sadly after months of this fiasco going in circles, it really doesn't sound like they understand.

"Infrastructure just isn't ready" would be more accurate

Yeah, considering how much of a clusterfuck the whole thing has been so far, including probably server issues on launch day when hundreds of thousands of people try to DL the patch, 180s on just about every major feature or decision bar Kinect, a clear lack of focus and cringeworthy overly defensive marketing, would they really have been ready to have some kind of bar code scanning machine in Games and GameStops of the world so you could trade a game in and have it deactivated from your account, as well as the whole Family Sharing idea in place so that friends and family could effectively access your account if permitted?! Considering the console is as it stands looking like it would have been better with a 2014 release, there's no goddamn way they would have had the DRM infrastructure in place for launch.

 

[DBT85]

He is completely right.

I don't like it. But we don't have a choice.

Of course you have a choice. We exercised that choice when thousands of us were tweeting about DRM, when the Xbone got shitty pre order numbers so bad that they had no choice but to flip the switch.

That IS choice.

 

[ChryZ]

They still think that the consumers are the problem?! FFS

 

[GSG Flash]

Penello said Microsoft hasn't given up on a fully digital future. "We just think that's the way the future's gonna go," he said. "We may have been right. What we were wrong about was that it's just too soon. People just weren't ready to make that leap right away."

Looks like I'm never buying a Microsoft console....

 

[Skilletor]

So many people are up in arms about this now, and hate Microsoft for saying anything relating to this "future," but it's going to happen whether you complain about it or not. If you continue to want to play and enjoy video games as a hobby, you're going to either have to accept it or find a new hobby, because it is the reality and it is going to happen.

If there is another generation of consoles, Sony will do the exact same thing, and they'll be doing plenty of it this generation as well as it goes on. And it isn't just games, it's the same thing with all entertainment mediums.

As someone that loves Steam and PC gaming, and digital entertainment, I find all of this drama to be pretty meaningless.

Nah. I'll never stop talking about and defending my consumer rights.

 

[Kenai]

It may be inevitable, but I think companies are going to have to continue to make their case for why consumers are better off. The notion that consumers can't fight city hall isn't necessarily the most constructive sentiment. I think this is particularly true in this industry. It's not as though hardware and software manufactures in the gaming industry are holding all the power here. They very much need consumers more than consumers need them.

So well said.

They have to make us want it by being an attractive purchase in general, not basically demand we buy it or else because we have no choice in the matter. To claim otherwise is so laughable...

 

[Fox Mulder]

I dont disslike a digital future. I do have an issue with anti consumer BS. Like DRM, online check ins, no used games and selling digital games for almost the same price as we pay for a physical copy.

Get rid of all that above, sell me the game at a very reduced price then I might be fine with it

They don't seem to get why people accepted digital mp3's and ebooks, even digital movies through netflix. It was convenient, priced right, and were fresh ideas consumer embraced.

For MS to act like their ideas were too far advanced for the stupid masses is laughable. Consumers were going to get fucked hard with the xbox one and rightfully rejected it. MS also did a shitty job of explaining any benefits consumers would see through their vision.

I don't even get why they want to dig this shit back up anyways right before the console comes out. Talk about a house full of fucking morons.

 

[erawsd]

Just gonna repost a relevant post from another thread a while back, giving a nice little breakdown of why digital has been able to take off in other industries while console gaming is still largely retail-driven:



And of course, the ever-relevant Jimquisition video on why PC gaming gets away with all-digital compared to consoles is good viewing for any who haven't seen it yet.

So please, stuff the "digital is inevitable" argument. It will be resisted if it's not on consumers' terms, just look at the Xbone DRM reversal that happened not even half a year ago for the perfect example.

 

[Myshkin]

God damnit, I want this guy's job! Cause massive consumer uproar, taint your product's image, and then you can blame the customers!

Why hasn't Penello gone the same way as Orth? What's the difference? Is it just that it wasn't Orth's job to be the one to insult the customers?

 

[DangerMouse]

They just can't fucking stop talking about it.

They must resent their so-called faithful customers and all consumers so much to keep saying that we were too stupid to understand their vision.

Enlighten us then Penello. Share this magic future that we were all too fucking prehistoric to understand.

Agreed. It's amazing, they're mere weeks away from launch (with PS4 about to launch this very week) and they've lead us back to talking about one of the things that almost buried their console before the forced 180s and those apparently absolutely horrid preorder numbers got through since their customers' feedback sure as hell didn't.

It's like they're basically telling us they're going to try to bring it back, and probably sooner than we think.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Too bad because whether or not MS does it, it's gonna happen.

Not any time soon considering Microsoft had to run off with their tail between their legs. It'll only happen if people let it.

 

[Wille517]

You had literally ANY chance you wanted to say so, but you didn't. That's on you.

No they said exactly what they wanted to say #dealwithit

 

[boredandlazy]

I live in Australia. We wont be ready for Pennelo's vision for another decade. My monthly cap is 150 gb. I am lucky to ever get a meg a second down the line.

If he wants to kill retail, declare a war and make it happen.

I also live in Australia less than 10km from a capital city and I only get around 300KB/s. This sort of bullshit attitude from Microsoft makes me proud that I've never purchased any of their consoles.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I don't think a Steam to Xbox One comparison is apt, either. They're completely different ecosystems with completely different markets.

That said, I don't think even gamers who have positive Steam experiences really believe Xbox Live was really going to function the way Steam does.

 

[Moosehole]

Good lord. Can't say that I'm surprised, though...

 

[xxracerxx]

No they said exactly what they wanted to say #dealwithit

Obviously not if we are 2 weeks away from launch and they are drudging up this shit again that it was the consumer's fault.

 

[Spwn]

Didn't read through the whole thread, but still going to throw my opinion out here. It's the Internet so why wouldn't I...:

Digital future has too many uncertainties. What if service provider ceases to exist? I think having a physical product has a chance to give more freedom to the consumer in the long term. While I believe in the convenience of digital products, I don't share the view of having nothing but digital as my option.

 

[terrisus]

Yeah, apparently people only want all-digital, DRM-locked games if they're through Steam's DRM.

 

[boredandlazy]

This is the same arguments people have made about "all digital" book sales.

I for one want the all digital future and all my xbox one purchase will be digital. I love how some of you concede that it is "inevitable" yet shout down Microsoft for claiming to be ahead of their time...if it is inevitable and they were going to do it, by definition they are ahead of their time, but I guess it is easier to talk out of both sides of your mouth that actually admit MS might have a point...

Maybe their solution wasn't the best, fine I can live with that...but I still wish it was the goal, I wish PS4 was doing the same. I want the digital future and I want it now.

Haters gonna hate. Adapt or die....

(full disclaimer was totally on the other side of this argument with books...only recently bought a kindle and am completely sold on digital media consumption now)

And Microsoft did adapt, out of desperation so their XBox brand wouldn't die.

 

[SRTtoZ]

I have a feeling the XB1 will regain its DRM as time goes on. Can't do much when you own the console and they flip the switch.

Yeah, apparently people only want all-digital, DRM-locked games if they're through Steam's DRM.

What DRM lock? I can DL on steam, take my laptop in the middle of the desert and play games.

 

[PierrePressure]

it's happening.gif

Seems apt.

 

[daman824]

Not any time soon considering Microsoft had to run off with their tail between their legs. It'll only happen if people let it.

Microsoft didn't run off with their tail between their legs. They learned a lesson. Everyone learned a lesson by looking at the reaction to the Xbox One drm. Everyone is just going to be more subtle when moving toward all digital now. Everyone wants digital to take over as soon as possible, Microsoft just showed their hand too soon. Which was idiotic.