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Physical punishment for kids? Does it work?

RDreamer

Member
If you gave your kids lead paint toys and didn't know anything about it you probably weren't a horrible parent. You tried and maybe missed some things. Hopefully your kid still turned out alright despite the tons of research saying lead paint toys were bad.

If you give your kid lead paint toys right now despite all the research, even if you turned out alright with them, just because you want to justify not saying your parents were bad at parenting... well... You're a bad parent.

Same thing with hitting.
 
It's well said, but people will continue to dig their heels in and call you a horrible parent. I assume these are people who have no kids or have never dealt with a situation like this.

I will just accept the fact that I'm a horrible parent even though my kids have everything provided for them, I take countless hours out of my day to play with them, teach them, care for them, they show me love unconditionally as do I, yet the 1 smack on the hand has automatically made me a horrible parent since this conversation has have an absolute answer to one extreme or the other.

I'm all for discussing better ways of doing things including parenting. I do understand those (parents or non-parents)that are strongly against physical (spanking or smack on the butt/hand.) or mental punishment(yelling or isolating the child). The feedback is always welcome positive or negative but, to say I'm horrible parent because of rare occasion(can't even remember the last time) when I went upside my kid's head(I hope it's clear what that means. It's like a bop on the head, literally) is ludicrous.

I think teaching empathy is really important as my son gets older. It's less about the punishment now as much as it is him understanding why the thing he has said or done was really bad.

Jesus I hope that was clear.
 

Laiza

Member
It's always scary to me how many GAF members will come out in defense of physically abusing your children every time we have a thread like this. If you believe that children need to be beaten to become upstanding citizens I feel sorry for you, because your parents clearly didn't treat you very well. That's such a twisted view to have.
Likewise.

Even moreso because I was physically abused as a child just because my older brother was spanked, which lead him to becoming an absolute terror in the home for all of his siblings.

It was total bullshit. 100% preventable.

I now live with social anxiety that neuters my ability to communicate effectively with strangers and a powerful aversion to violence that borders on neurosis.

Thanks for nothing, corporal punishment. I hope each and every one of you folks advocating for this shit take a good, long, hard look at yourselves.
 
It's well said, but people will continue to dig their heels in and call you a horrible parent. I assume these are people who have no kids or have never dealt with a situation like this.

I will just accept the fact that I'm a horrible parent even though my kids have everything provided for them, I take countless hours out of my day to play with them, teach them, care for them, they show me love unconditionally as do I, yet the 1 smack on the hand has automatically made me a horrible parent since this conversation has have an absolute answer to one extreme or the other.

I'm not going to judge someone on whether they are a good parent or not. But I think people should be looking for alternative methods for disciplining their child. What happens if the smack on the hand doesn't stop the child from continuing the dangerous behaviour?

You'd need to try something else. Words didn't work so the solution was a physical punishment. If the physical punishment doesn't work, we'd need to look for a different solution. My argument would be that we should be looking for that alternate solution instead of resorting to a physical punishment.
 

jmizzal

Member
Kids use to get spankings at schools up until the 90s and a lot of states its still not outlawed even tho its not practiced anymore.

Thats pretty crazy, so for a lot of our parents thats what they knew, at home and school, so to call out the parents from back in the day is pretty short sighted
 
I can't count how many times talking to my kids hasn't worked. In one ear, out the other.

Taking away privileges doesn't work on my 8 year old. The patterns and habits keep repeating.

Likewise.

Even moreso because I was physically abused as a child just because my older brother was spanked, which lead him to becoming an absolute terror in the home for all of his siblings.

It was total bullshit. 100% preventable.

.

Sorry to hear about this but , unfortunately, This is not exclusive to children who are spanked. That is an oversimplification to a complicated problem.
 
It was about 20 years ago. Around noon I was playing with my cousin and everyone else were sleeping.my mom,my uncle, her wife,and my dad.

We started running around the house and making loud noises in the process. Then all of a sudden I felt someone is standing behind me, I turned around and my dad was there,with sleepy eyes and all. He didnt say a word,Just BAM, slapped me across my face, then turned around and went back to his room to continue sleeping.

That was the first and the last time my did ever hit me.

Now I am 30, and I respect people, and am always aware of my surronding making sure that I am not imposing any inconvinience on anyone and I think I have that thanks to that day.
 

Cat Party

Member
If you think hitting kids is okay, you didn't "turn out fine."

The thought of striking my kids or having them fear that I might strike them makes me sick. If you can stomach that feeling, you're fucked up.

It's 2017 and we have the benefit of decades of uncontroverted scientific studies to prove that hitting your kids doesn't work. No excuses anymore.
 

Gutek

Member
I can't count how many times talking to my kids hasn't worked. In one ear, out the other.

Taking away privileges doesn't work on my 8 year old. The patterns and habits keep repeating.

Have you maybe considered that you are a bad parent and that you should seek outside help?
 

Servbot24

Banned
If you deliberately hurt your children you failed as a parent.
I got spanked and I have great parents who raised 3 successful, joyful and well-adjusted children.

That said I wouldn't spank my kids, because I'm an idealist and naively have hope we can become less barbaric as a species.

Have you maybe considered that you are a bad parent and that you should seek outside help?
You sound completely clueless.
 

Septimius

Junior Member
Look, now I'm not sure what you're getting at because all of psychology is just trying to understand and leverage physiological responses to external stimuli as it relates to human behavior. Punishment is just the human construct of tapping into the same physiological process as touching a hot stove. Again, I agree with you that there may not be much of a place for these techniques these days, but we're mostly going against biological processes for parenting by going against said techniques. That doesn't mean we shouldn't heed current studies, but I'm curious as to how it's changing humanity as a whole, possibly not for the better in some ways.

OK, listen. I've studied physiology and anatomy, and I know the endocrine system rather well. I know physiological processes, and I'm just here to say that the adrenaline and cortisone response as a direct consequence to an action is far removed from the complex social structures of our brains that deals with "social causality". There are no evolutionary processes behind hitting your child for "doing something stupid", which is the correlation you're trying to establish with what you're saying. "Touching the stove is hot -> pain", "doing something your parents object to -> pain". If you touch a stove, you have direct responses to that stimuli. There's no "response to stimuli" in being hit for doing something bad. There's no correlation between the two. There is nothing inherently "human" about being hit by your parents, and I have no idea where you're trying to find that correlation. They have literally nothing to do with a pain response memory. The pain would be your parents hitting you, not the thing itself.
 

Camwi

Member
I haven't read through the thread, so this might have been mentioned already, but to those who think that getting physically punished as a child helped you as an adult - how do you know that you didn't turn out well in spite of the beatings, rather than because of it?

Also, I personally turned out pretty fucked-up in my teens and early 20s, and only managed to readjust things later in life. I refuse to beat my two girls, since my ma used to beat the shit out of me when I was young.
 

Chjemah

Neo Member
I'm all for discussing better ways of doing things including parenting. I do understand those (parents or non-parents)that are strongly against physical (spanking or smack on the butt/hand.) or mental punishment(yelling or isolating the child). The feedback is always welcome positive or negative but, to say I'm horrible parent because of rare occasion(can't even remember the last time) when I went upside my kid's head(I hope it's clear what that means. It's like a bop on the head, literally) is ludicrous.

I think teaching empathy is really important as my son gets older. It's less about the punishment now as much as it is him understanding why the thing he has said or done was really bad.

Jesus I hope that was clear.

I think you nailed it with that last point. I was spanked as a kid but I was never hit before we had sat down and talked about why I was being punished. My mom/dad would never hit me in the heat of the moment when I did something bad, the spanking would always come later after we had sat down and talked about what had happened and I understood the reason for it.
 
Sometimes it works BUT there is a huge chance it makes the child worse

True Story

For example my mom & granny gave me occasional whoopings and it straightened me out. Not too much but as if it was the right amount sometimes I got whipped and sometimes I was just talked to one on one.

Another example would be this guy in high school I knew. He would bully the weak kids for no reason and to find out years later after high school. He revealed to us at our class 5 year anniversary. Saying the reason he did it because as a kid his parents constantly had hit him as a kid basically 4 times a week. And in a way he projected his anger out to the kids in high school. He ended up getting his life together through therapy and is now doing great.
 

Septimius

Junior Member
Sorry to hear about this but , unfortunately, This is not exclusive to children who are spanked. That is an oversimplification to a complicated problem.

Yes, but in the discussion of "should I hit my child", the fact that there are other ways kids are mistreated is just a misdirection. You shouldn't hit your kids, and no, that doesn't complicate the other problems kids have.
 
My parents may have spanked me a few times, but they never once lashed out. It was always preceded by a talk, administered calmly, then followed by another talk, then hugs and making up once they were sure I understood what had happened. Physical punishment can be a calm, rational choice.

If you can talk calmly to a child before and after hitting them, it's doubly pointless to hit them. Really, why would you cold-bloodedly inflict avoidable pain on anyone when explaining things to them is already an option? That's the best you can do. Explain what went wrong, listen to the child's point of view, and encourage them to resolve to do better. It's a bit like, you know, talking to adults.
 
It was about 20 years ago. Around noon I was playing with my cousin and everyone else were sleeping.my mom,my uncle, her wife,and my dad.

We started running around the house and making loud noises in the process. Then all of a sudden I felt someone is standing behind me, I turned around and my dad was there,with sleepy eyes and all. He didnt say a word,Just BAM, slapped me across my face, then turned around and went back to his room to continue sleeping.

That was the first and the last time my did ever hit me.

Now I am 30, and I respect people, and am always aware of my surronding making sure that I am not imposing any inconvinience on anyone and I think I have that thanks to that day.

that story is fucked up.
 

collige

Banned
The "I turned out fine" argument is pretty nonsensical. You could get home fine driving drunk, but that doesn't make it a good idea. The best case scenario is no better than not doing it and the worst case has some pretty serious negative effects, unless you somehow believe that physical punishments are necessary to raise a well behaved child.
 

1044

Member
hose.gif


Can you believe this comic is actually beloved by millions? What kind of sick person can read a comic about this kind of child abuse?
How dare the author show such graphic violence against children so casually? No wonder Calvin ends up with so many mental problems, including talking to a stuffed animal.
#boycottwaterson #hobbes2017
 

SpecX

Member
I'm not going to judge someone on whether they are a good parent or not. But I think people should be looking for alternative methods for disciplining their child. What happens if the smack on the hand doesn't stop the child from continuing the dangerous behaviour?

You'd need to try something else. Words didn't work so the solution was a physical punishment. If the physical punishment doesn't work, we'd need to look for a different solution. My argument would be that we should be looking for that alternate solution instead of resorting to a physical punishment.

I just want to be clear again, I'm not out here spanking or abusing my kids.I said earlier, it's been well over a year since I smacked my daughters hand and it's never gone any further than that.

I agree that you need to find other methods, I'm just disagreeing with the argument that anyone who has ever laid their hands on their kid is a bad parent. If that adult feels that's the only way to get through to their child or is the only way to discipline, then yes they are horrible and need their child taken from them.

As it's been said, there's no guide to parenting and people go through this mostly blind. People make mistakes and it's how you learn from that mistake that makes you a better person/parent.
 
Parents beat their offspring either because they're violent adults or because they had been so soft/loose with their kid that when an incident called for disciplinary action the child wouldn't respond to any non-physical reprimand as the offspring has since failed to perceive or acknowledge the parent as a legitimate disciplinary and authority figure so physical punishment is applied as the last resort.
 

RDreamer

Member
The "I turned out fine" argument is pretty nonsensical. You could get home fine driving drunk, but that doesn't make it a good idea. The best case scenario is no better than not doing it and the worst case has some pretty serious negative effects, unless you somehow believe that physical punishments are necessary to raise a well behaved child.

This this this this this.

It's what I keep trying to say here. Why are people defending hitting so bullheaded? You turning out fine is not a defense, and you wanting to hit your kid is probably a sign maybe you didn't turn out fine but that's beside the point. In literally every other way I can think of we try to mitigate damage to our kids. Even a small percentage chance of something bad happening to them, we don't fucking do it. Why do we insist on hitting them, even though every piece of evidence says it's bad?
 

mrkgoo

Member
I was physically disciplined when I was a child, and I assume I turned out fine.


Thing is you don't really think about this kind of thing fully until you have kids ignore your own. You stare down at your kid when they're little and you cannot fathom how hurting them physically is the answer to anything.

Wen you have kids, you very quickly witness how they will imitate you in every aspect as they develop. You see all your own flaws mirrored back to you.

So then, you can foresee what happens when you use spanking as a form of displine - depending on how early you use it, they will more likely than not then see the correlation of "doing something I don't like? Then I hit you".

Of course, my kids aren't quite yet the age where they can be true terrors, you know, like physically hitting back etc. so who knows maybe I'm wrong and it can get really bad without myself raising a hand, but the idea is they will learn by example. I think one key point is try not to raise a spoiled brat and steer them away from any such behaviour.
 

Laiza

Member
Sorry to hear about this but, unfortunately, This is not exclusive to children who are spanked. That is an oversimplification to a complicated problem.
Sure, but beating the kid sure doesn't help in any way, form, or fashion, which is the whole bloody point.

Really, every time this thread pops up, it makes my blood boil. Piles and piles of research corroborating the negative effects of corporal punishment and it's just post after post after post of "I turned out fine" "I learned my lesson" blah-de-blah-blah. It seems our education system has completely and utterly failed at drilling in that anecdotes are not statistics.
 
hose.gif


Can you believe this comic is actually beloved by millions? What kind of sick person can read a comic about this kind of child abuse?
How dare the author show such graphic violence against children so casually? No wonder Calvin ends up with so many mental problems, including talking to a stuffed animal.
#boycottwaterson #hobbes2017

A+
 
“Don’t ever hit your kids”
“My parents hit me and I turned out better for it”
“Your parents are not good parents”

Always a good way to start a discussion.
 
Sure, but beating the kid sure doesn't help in any way, form, or fashion, which is the whole bloody point.

Really, every time this thread pops up, it makes my blood boil. Piles and piles of research corroborating the negative effects of corporal punishment and it's just post after post after post of "I turned out fine" "I learned my lesson" blah-de-blah-blah. It seems our education system has completely and utterly failed at drilling in that anecdotes are not statistics.

i agree. wish you nothing but the best. we very much live in a "get in line" heirarchy that has persisted longer than it had any right to. all in good time.
 

Gutek

Member
hose.gif


Can you believe this comic is actually beloved by millions? What kind of sick person can read a comic about this kind of child abuse?
How dare the author show such graphic violence against children so casually? No wonder Calvin ends up with so many mental problems, including talking to a stuffed animal.
#boycottwaterson #hobbes2017

What’s next? You’re gonna show me pictured of beloved Minstrel shows and claim you don’t understand what the fuss is about?
 

Laiza

Member
”Don't ever hit your kids"
”My parents hit me and I turned out better for it"
”Your parents are not good parents"

Always a good way to start a discussion.
It's just a distraction. Whether or not someone is a good parent is completely irrelevant. What matters is what happens to the children afterwards.

Frankly, this whole bullshit surrounding the bruised egos of parents in this thread is super annoying. You don't need to defend your parenting from random strangers who know nothing of how your child has turned out. Your children can speak for themselves.

What we can talk about is the fact that the research absolutely does not corroborate any claims that hitting is a good disciplinary tool. Instead we're just tossing out stupid anecdotes like those actually matter somehow. No wonder humanity is constantly in such dire straits.
 

Gutek

Member
It's just a distraction. Whether or not someone is a good parent is completely irrelevant. What matters is what happens to the children afterwards.

Frankly, this whole bullshit surrounding the bruised egos of parents in this thread is super annoying. You don't need to defend your parenting from random strangers who know nothing of how your child has turned out. That is entirely on your children.

What we can talk about is the fact that the research absolutely does not corroborate any claims that hitting is a good disciplinary tool. Instead we're just tossing out stupid anecdotes like those actually matter somehow. No wonder humanity is constantly in such dire straits.

Yup. It’s just a deflection tactic. “Are you telling me MY PARENTS are bad parents?”. That’s why I just give them what they want and move on.

There is no upside to hitting your child. You have no leg to stand on.
 

Laiza

Member
Gutek’s post wasn’t wrong or offensive, if you need third party help it’s not something to be ashamed of, heh.
Yeah, this is just kind of funny to watch. I mean, there is a condescending tone to it, but at the same time everyone has to seek out assistance with something at some point - even (or rather, especially) for something as fundamental as parenting.

If you've tried everything you could think of and it didn't work, mayhaps you need to look to other sources for ideas instead of resorting to the most base option available to you?
 

Red

Member
mary_worth_spanking.jpg


Can you believe this comic is actually beloved by millions? What kind of sick person can read a comic about this kind of domestic abuse?
How dare the author show such graphic violence against women so casually?
.
 

WillyFive

Member
If you gave your kids lead paint toys and didn't know anything about it you probably weren't a horrible parent. You tried and maybe missed some things. Hopefully your kid still turned out alright despite the tons of research saying lead paint toys were bad.

If you give your kid lead paint toys right now despite all the research, even if you turned out alright with them, just because you want to justify not saying your parents were bad at parenting... well... You're a bad parent.

Same thing with hitting.

My feelings on the issue.

My parents hit me, but I'm glad that I have not hit any child whatsoever. Generations should improve upon the previous.
 
Here are the main points of frustration I have when it comes to this topic and people getting overly defensive about it.

The scientific consensus should matter.

I see so many people just hand-waving or outright ignoring the fact that the overwhelming consensus of research into this subject says that not only does corporeal punishment carry a bevy of negative psychological effects but that it's also ineffective at achieving the desired disciplinary results.

”It's a very controversial area even though the research is extremely telling and very clear and consistent about the negative effects on children," says Sandra Graham-Bermann, PhD, a psychology professor and principal investigator for the Child Violence and Trauma Laboratory at the University of Michigan. ”People get frustrated and hit their kids. Maybe they don't see there are other options."

But spanking doesn't work, says Alan Kazdin, PhD, a Yale University psychology professor and director of the Yale Parenting Center and Child Conduct Clinic. ”You cannot punish out these behaviors that you do not want," says Kazdin, who served as American Psychological Association president in 2008. ”There is no need for corporal punishment based on the research. We are not giving up an effective technique. We are saying this is a horrible thing that does not work."

The global trajectory should matter.

More and more countries are banning corporeal punishment as a form of child discipline. Three years ago it was only 30 and now we're up to 49. Nearly every country in South America has banned it. This isn't just a case of a few liberal countries in the first world west complaining about different cultures being 'backwards'.

We should not treat our pets better than our children.

I can't remember the last time I heard someone on GAF defend hitting dogs or cats as a form of training/discipline. Everybody knows the right way to train a dog but when it comes to your children suddenly physical violence is back on the table.

Anecdotes don't trump science.

'It snowed this winter therefore global warming isn't true' is the same thing as 'I got hit and I turned out ok'. That's putting aside the fact that self-evaluation is probably the worst way to get an objective result, or that the relevant question is whether you would have turned out even better if you hadn't been hit.

Accept that your parents can do wrong and so can you.

People seem psychologically unwilling to accept the fact that their parents (or themselves) may have done something wrong. That doesn't mean you can't love them or that they didn't love you. It doesn't mean they or you are evil people who need to be locked up. But it does mean admitting that it would have been better for the children involved for different choices to have been made.

Your parents didn't have the advantage of a scientific consensus telling them it was both ineffective and harmful. They didn't have the benefit of living in a world where you could look up and research alternative techniques and forms of discipline from the comfort of your home. They didn't live in a world where they could be aware that the global trend was moving towards the banning of corporeal punishment.

But you do. You have all those tools at your disposal and you have the power to make a different and better choice for yourself and your children.
 

fin

Member
I can't imagine being a child and NOT being afraid of your dad. I was careful around him that's for sure!!!
 

Stiler

Member
Growing up in a divorced family, one side was abusive and would hit me, the other would ground me/take away my computer/game for a bit if I did something bad.

I grew to resent the one that physically beat me, and these weren't simple whuppings, these were "go grab a hickory switch off the tree" and then proceed to whip me til I had marks on my legs and welts kind.

Violence/anger didn't help me at all, in fact it led to me NOT wanting to tell the truth if I did do something wrong because the punishment was enough that I'd rather not face up to it and take a beat vs lying and then hopefully not getting a beating.

Meanwhile the one that grounded me had a policy if I told the truth, etc then if it wasn't something superbad I wouldn't lose my privileges/ my allowance for as long then if they found out on their own. So I ended up confessing to most things when asked.

I knew well enough once I was a teenager that if I ever had kids that was NOT something I ever wanted to do to them, violence doesn't help and I never want my kid to fell like they should lie to me or can't trust me.
 

1044

Member
What’s next? You’re gonna show me pictured of beloved Minstrel shows and claim you don’t understand what the fuss is about?

The author has outright said that he agrees with Calvin's parents.

Watterson defends what Calvin's parents do, remarking that in the case of parenting a kid like Calvin, "I think they do a better job than I would." Calvin's father is overly concerned with "character building" activities in a number of strips, either in the things he makes Calvin do or in the masochistic eccentricities of his own lifestyle. For example, Calvin's father is shown coming home from an early morning run in the snow, which he follows with a bowl of plain oatmeal.
 

RDreamer

Member
The author has outright said that he agrees with Calvin's parents.

I'm not sure I understand where this is going.

We should take all our advise from cartoonists and not from overwhelming scientific consensus and almost every psychologist alive right now?
 

mcrommert

Banned
I haven't read through the thread, so this might have been mentioned already, but to those who think that getting physically punished as a child helped you as an adult - how do you know that you didn't turn out well in spite of the beatings, rather than because of it?

Also, I personally turned out pretty fucked-up in my teens and early 20s, and only managed to readjust things later in life. I refuse to beat my two girls, since my ma used to beat the shit out of me when I was young.

Sounds like she over did it
 
. You don't need to defend your parenting from random strangers who know nothing of how your child has turned out. Your children can speak for themselves.

I am open to a discussion which is why I am interested in the responses in this thread. Nothing you say here, however, absolves anyone from calling strangers out and making leaps of logic. That isn't helping anyone or their child. How you frame a point is just as important as what you're saying. Good parents CAN and WILL make mistakes. That doesn't make them bad parents. Mistakes and parenting are not mutually exclusive. Bad parents are people who dont' give a shit. Period.

No one is laughing off the idea of family therapy here. Another leap some are making.
 
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