Support NeoGAF

[Sblargh]

That seems a bit too elaborate to me. I see no reason for them to lie.

The question to me is if they're right to be worried or not.

Any content creator should be worried about how their work will be perceived, what they do with this perception is on them.

The developer of a beach voleyball game about girls in bikinis should know that people will bring the issue of sexism sooner or later, if they want to avoid that by not releasing the game, that's their call. It's not like they are making anti authority games on a fascist state with the risk of a secret police killing the devs. And you can't blame people for criticizing the stuff you do.

My point is, they are right to be worried about it, but anyone who does anything that is reviewable on the internet should be to a certain extent.

 

[Pellegri Testament]

Didn't some of these get censored for the West thought? I'm almost certain criminal girls did.

Most of them did not and even the few that did, you could still tell exactly what the intent was. "Smoke" doesn't hide the lolis you're sexually arousing in CG and adding clothes to 3 loli cgs in DT doesn't change the fact that the majority of girls are still half naked or in suggestive poses.

 

[Mael]

When people complain about the game I rarely hear them complain about any gameplay. If it was just a shitty game it would never garner that much attention.

The T&A is the only reason any even consider this game worthy of any discussion.
I'm not joking, there's nothing to discuss on the DOAX games but the pandering.
No one is buying that for the volleyball and the other minigames.
The pandering is worthy of criticism.
That's a topic as worthy of discussion as the shitty lighting in DarkSouls2, framerate drops in No More Heroes or the feedback loop of Legend of Zelda.
And you can be sex positive while disliking something as crass as a volleyball game whose only justification is the boob physic engine.

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

Uh, here's an idea: ADD MEN. Easy.

Honestly. If they added men to the game, I guarantee so many more people would be okay with the game's existence. I know I would.

Edit: ew 'trannies', really? Grow up.

I doubt that. Part of the backlash is how no change is good enough. The people that criticize the game now will continue to find something to complain about.

 

[Alucrid]

This is utter horseshit.

1. The term was around long before GG. Urban Dictionary has a definition from early 2012.
2. I know nothing of Gamergate and have always seen that term to mean 'a proponent of nasty, point-scoring progressiveness that isn't about the victim but rather about boosting one's social standing'. Those kinds of people certainly exist. I don't see why they can't have their own derisive moniker. They certainly deserve one.

words can be co-opted and this one has

 

[radios shipping overview]

This is utter horseshit.

1. The term was around long before GG. Urban Dictionary has a definition from early 2012.
2. I know nothing of Gamergate and have always seen that term to mean 'a proponent of nasty, point-scoring progressiveness that isn't about the victim but rather about boosting one's social standing'.

1. See above. I'm aware it was around before GG. I never stated otherwise. It has been co-opted.
2. Is this a thing that actually exists? And is it a thing that people actually encounter regularly? Or is it just something people are afraid of?

 

[Sai-kun]

And that in a nutshell is my problem with the backlash and "criticism"; wanting creators to change things, because you don't like it or think it should be different.

The premise that someone should change something, because people are offended and think someone should include something they didn't envision, just to pander is beyond infuriating. And I don't even play these games.

Hey man, he asked how DOAX could evolve into 2015, and I gave him the easiest possible solution. I didn't say the game has to change, I have no control over the game, I'm just being honest with what would get me to think twice about how I view the game.

also what fucking forum do you think you're on where the bolded doesn't apply to every god damn topic on gaming side lmao

I doubt that. Part of the backlash is how no change is good enough. The people that criticize the game now will continue to find something to complain about.

do you have a source for this?

Ever heard of "No Thank You!"? It's a gay visual novel that actually has different body types (gasp!) and options for body hair. You can choose all over, just the crotch, or bare as a baby's bottom. Not everything about it was perfect, but it certainly was very interesting in a genre that feels very "samey" after having played a few.

Anyway, I like the cut of your gib, whenever I get around to becoming rich and opening a game company I'll keep you in mind as an idea guy.

I'm more of a Coming Out On Top kinda guy NTY! was a little too dark/rapey in certain parts and I just didn't really care for the art style/most of the guys in it (aside from that one silver haired hottie), but I definitely appreciate its existence.

I honestly think a body hair slider would be an incredible innovation.

 

[benicillin]

Hahahaha I'm sorry but if you actually use the term SJW unironically I just can't take you seriously, as a person or as a company.

 

[Lime]

Can't wait for a year from now when someone trots out the tweets by PlayAsia as evidence of feminism censoring or taking away their video games and then we all have to spend more time and energy debunking such claims and worldviews.

aka

As I see it the implications from PlayAsia's tweets are:

1. A hate movement feels vindicated by PlayAsia's tweets (cf. Steven Youngblood's example earlier)
2. Ordinary people get the misconception that the SJWs are the reason for why DOAX3 didn't come to the West
3. A hate movement uses this as evidence of the evil feminist illuminati
4. DOAX3 becomes politicized and unfortunately to some extent associated with GG

 

[Kinyou]

I honestly would like someone to walk me through what there is to be worried about. OK, so game comes out that strikes some progressive commentators as objectifying women and they say something bad about it. That very well could happen. So what? I don't understand what would be so damaging about it provided that you're a company that has made games like this in the past and believes in the product.

The facebook post from Tecmo is rather confusing, which probably some awkward translation is to blame for, but it almost sounds like that they fear that if they get criticized in the west it will reflect bad on them in Japan "We do not want to talk these things here"

 

[GuardianE]

Criminal Girls was pretty much the only one. Monster Monpiece was the one last year that was censored.



Wouldn't those relationships have been strained with Last Round and the upcoming Nights of Azure?

I don't think so. As we know, a lot of retailers are ignorant of what's on their shelves until someone makes a stink about it. The cover goes a long way in establishing what a retailer knows about a game. There's no subtlety to what DOAX3 is, nor really should there be. If there's opposition and it's not a giant seller, retailers may simply decide to not stock it.

some of this is based on an interview with Atlus in how they convinced major retailers to stock Catherine.

 

[Fishious]

This is utter horseshit.

1. The term was around long before GG.
2. I know nothing of Gamergate and have always seen that term to mean 'a proponent of nasty, point-scoring progressiveness that isn't about the victim but rather about boosting one's social standing'.

The term has been around longer than GG. But I have read many of the GG related threads on GAF and the term "SJW" has essentially become a one size fits all term to describe anyone who is socially progressive, in any context, to disparage them or shut down discussion. Whatever meaning it may have had at one point has been lost. This is what the term is now.

 

[Valdfellgar]

The facebook post from Tecmo is rather confusing, which probably some awkward translation is to blame for, but it almost sounds like that they fear that if they get criticized in the west it will reflect bad on them in Japan "We do not want to talk these things here"

I don't think it'd reflect bad on them in Japan (I could be wrong.) I think it's just this discussion isn't really happening over there and they simply don't want to be a part of it themselves.

 

[dramatis]

I went to bed when this thread was two pages and when I woke up it was fifteen. Trying to catch up is futile.

As someone who complains about almost everything involving female characters (I get flak for not liking anything), after the DOAX3 trailer went online, I said in a discussion that I am frankly okay with DOAX3, as it is a game that is incredibly honest about exactly what it is and doesn't try to hide under the veneer of art (Blade and Soul) or in-game lore (Star Ocean 5, FF15) or character development (Fatal Frame). I don't particularly like DOAX, but I think that there will be games like it and they will sell like shit. It matters little because I'm already not a consumer of the product, will never be, and otherwise won't be able to influence it like anything else that I am a customer or a potential customer for.

The coverage of DOAX3 has been so scant that I hadn't even been aware that it's Japan/Asia only, I just assumed it was coming over. Criticism of DOA and DOAX is nothing new and didn't stop Tecmo from releasing the previous games.

"The climate has changed?" Yes, but that didn't stop Koei-Tecmo from releasing Deception or Yoru no Nai Kuni (or whatever), etc. There's no extreme social media backlash to those games.

"But the DOA brand is more popular and well-known, and therefore more likely to invite criticism?" Has there been any 'more inflammatory' coverage of the game compared to its predecessors in this post-GG environment?
Polygon has one article with no derogatory statements about the content of the game, reporting the release of a trailer.
Kotaku has one article talking about the announcement of the game and one single-line report about VR for the game.
IGN.com has a whopping 3 articles about DOAX3, reporting the announcement, the release date, and one from today about the confirmation of no western release.
Giantbomb has no news articles about DOAX3 at all. Content there is largely in the form of a fan-edited wiki.
Gamespot has...one article from today, discussing the Facebook post and reporting that KT fears backlash, hence no western release. Largely reporting, no extraneous comments about the contents of the game.
GameInformer has one article about the announcement.

Aside from perhaps one paragraph in the Kotaku announcement article, I didn't see much of anything that criticized the content of the game. Most of the coverage entailed detailing the announcement, the release date, the platforms, and its restriction to Japan and Asia. In comparison to the coverage of the older games, I'd actually say that the biggest difference is in the severe decline of coverage for DOAX altogether. Which is problematic for the brand.

Where is the purported "SJW outrage and criticism"?

 

[LordJim]

Any content creator should be worried about how their work will be perceived, what they do with this perception is on them.

The developer of a beach voleyball game about girls in bikinis should know that people will bring the issue of sexism sooner or later, if they want to avoid that by not releasing the game, that's their call. It's not like they are making anti authority games on a fascist state with the risk of a secret police killing the devs. And you can't blame people for criticizing the stuff you do.

My point is, they are right to be worried about it, but anyone who does anything that is reviewable on the internet should be to a certain extent.

Makes me wonder why there is so much questioning of motives if it can boil down to 'fuck that noise'.

 

[Orayn]

This is utter horseshit.

1. The term was around long before GG. Urban Dictionary has a definition from early 2012.
2. I know nothing of Gamergate and have always seen that term to mean 'a proponent of nasty, point-scoring progressiveness that isn't about the victim but rather about boosting one's social standing'. Those kinds of people certainly exist. I don't see why they can't have their own derisive moniker. They certainly deserve one.

The term was coined by aa blogger who thinks that racism literally does not exist. It's been a joke for as long as it's been around.

 

[Griss]

words can be co-opted and this one has

Co-opted? The vast majority of people have no idea what Gamegate is or what the fuck kind of words they use. How can a hundred subnormal losers in their basements co-opt a term?

1. See above. I'm aware it was around before GG. I never stated otherwise. It has been co-opted.
2. Is this a thing that actually exists? And is it a thing that people actually encounter regularly? Or is it just something people are afraid of?

Of course it's something that exists. I have members of my family who behave in that way. People claiming they'll never buy from Play-Asia again because they used an acronym that's associated with a tiny harassment group most people aren't aware of is a fine example of that kind of behaviour, and you see it online all the time.

The term was coined by aa blogger who thinks that racism literally does not exist. It's been a joke for as long as it's been around.

It gained traction because it described a pattern of behaviour people were encountering more and more. It certainly is intended to be humorous, though.

 

[Mr. Lemming]

While DOAX2 was sort of bad (so disappointed in the jet skiing), the first game was solid and polished. The possibility exists for the gameplay in this one to be decent... Not that much has been shown of it so far.

 

[Lothar]

This is utter horseshit.

1. The term was around long before GG.
2. I know nothing of Gamergate and have always seen that term to mean 'a proponent of nasty, point-scoring progressiveness that isn't about the victim but rather about boosting one's social standing'.

Agreed. It's laughable that there are people who seriously think GG took over the word and own it now. This is as ridiculous as the thread asking gamers if they called themselves gamers and some said no because of GG. To some, they own the word "gamer" and changed the meaning of that word too.

 

[MHWilliams]

I don't think so. As we know, a lot of retailers are ignorant of what's on their shelves until someone makes a stink about it. The cover goes a long way in establishing what a retailer knows about a game. There's no subtlety to what DOAX3 is, nor really should there be. If there's opposition and it's not a giant seller, retailers may simply decide to not stock it.

some of this is based on an interview with Atlus in how they convinced major retailers to stock Catherine.

Then digital release only.

Again, the decision not to release due to potential criticism literally makes no sense. None.

Where is the purported "SJW outrage and criticism"?

There isn't any.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I went to bed when this thread was two pages and when I woke up it was fifteen. Trying to catch up is futile.

As someone who complains about almost everything involving female characters (I get flak for not liking anything), after the DOAX3 trailer went online, I said in a discussion that I am frankly okay with DOAX3, as it is a game that is incredibly honest about exactly what it is and doesn't try to hide under the veneer of art (Blade and Soul) or in-game lore (Star Ocean 5, FF15) or character development (Fatal Frame). I don't particularly like DOAX, but I think that there will be games like it and they will sell like shit. It matters little because I'm already not a consumer of the product, will never be, and otherwise won't be able to influence it like anything else that I am a customer or a potential customer for.

The coverage of DOAX3 has been so scant that I hadn't even been aware that it's Japan/Asia only, I just assumed it was coming over. Criticism of DOA and DOAX is nothing new and didn't stop Tecmo from releasing the previous games.

"The climate has changed?" Yes, but that didn't stop Koei-Tecmo from releasing Deception or Yoru no Nai Kuni (or whatever), etc. There's no extreme social media backlash to those games.

"But the DOA brand is more popular and well-known, and therefore more likely to invite criticism?" Has there been any 'more inflammatory' coverage of the game compared to its predecessors in this post-GG environment?
Polygon has one article with no derogatory statements about the content of the game, reporting the release of a trailer.
Kotaku has one article talking about the announcement of the game and one single-line report about VR for the game.
IGN.com has a whopping 3 articles about DOAX3, reporting the announcement, the release date, and one from today about the confirmation of no western release.
Giantbomb has no news articles about DOAX3 at all. Content there is largely in the form of a fan-edited wiki.
Gamespot has...one article from today, discussing the Facebook post and reporting that KT fears backlash, hence no western release. Largely reporting, no extraneous comments about the contents of the game.
GameInformer has one article about the announcement.

Aside from perhaps one paragraph in the Kotaku announcement article, I didn't see much of anything that criticized the content of the game. Most of the coverage entailed detailing the announcement, the release date, the platforms, and its restriction to Japan and Asia. In comparison to the coverage of the older games, I'd actually say that the biggest difference is in the severe decline of coverage for DOAX altogether. Which is problematic for the brand.

Where is the purported "SJW outrage and criticism"?

THIS.

 

[Kinyou]

The T&A is the only reason any even consider this game worthy of any discussion.
I'm not joking, there's nothing to discuss on the DOAX games but the pandering.
No one is buying that for the volleyball and the other minigames.
The pandering is worthy of criticism.
That's a topic as worthy of discussion as the shitty lighting in DarkSouls2, framerate drops in No More Heroes or the feedback loop of Legend of Zelda.
And you can be sex positive while disliking something as crass as a volleyball game whose only justification is the boob physic engine.

Ok? So doesn't that make it okay to lump it in with Dragon's Crown after all, since both games get criticized for the pandering?

 

[RMI]

Where is the purported "SJW outrage and criticism"?

good post.

 

[prag16]

It was around, being used by the same kind of people who put in with GG. It was always used to shut down discussion via namecalling. The term wasn't helpful in the first place, and now it's further tainted by association.

The world doesn't begin and end with gamergate (or with gaf for that matter). There's a whole world out there, using all kinds of terms. Some people here need to step outside of the echo chamber every now and then. People apparently can't say white knight, or now SJW; so what's next? PC?

This is utter horseshit.

1. The term was around long before GG. Urban Dictionary has a definition from early 2012.
2. I know nothing of Gamergate and have always seen that term to mean 'a proponent of nasty, point-scoring progressiveness that isn't about the victim but rather about boosting one's social standing'. Those kinds of people certainly exist. I don't see why they can't have their own derisive moniker. They certainly deserve one.

Basically this.

The OT for this current season is overall really positive. I also think PC Principal is hilarious

Spoiler

but think having the big season twist be that everything was sponsored content falls limp.

Yeah, the OT has been mostly positive. Many people also made comments along the lines of "LOL PC principal is basically gaf". So not unexpectedly, when it comes up in other topics, there's a fair bit of negativity. And yeah, the big twist sorta fell flat for me as well. We'll see how they close it out though.

 

[MotionBlue]

Maybe don't use dumb catch-all phrases to represent boogeymen? Maybe talk about people as people?

Good idea!

It was around, being used by the same kind of people who put in with GG. It was always used to shut down discussion via namecalling. The term wasn't helpful in the first place, and now it's further tainted by association.

So you're aware what cognitive dissonance is, right?

SJW was a derogative long before GGers co-opted the term. Its the worst kind of 'slacktivism' in the world today. I agree the term gets thrown around a lot to dismiss dissident opinions, but so do lots of other terms.

 

[Valdfellgar]

Aside from perhaps one paragraph in the Kotaku announcement article, I didn't see much of anything that criticized the content of the game. Most of the coverage entailed detailing the announcement, the release date, the platforms, and its restriction to Japan and Asia. In comparison to the coverage of the older games, I'd actually say that the biggest difference is in the severe decline of coverage for DOAX altogether. Which is problematic for the brand.

Where is the purported "SJW outrage and criticism"?

I don't think there is any, yet, or maybe will even be for DOA Extreme 3. I think it's the fear of "What if we release it and get slammed for it?" Like other games have (Criminal Girls rightly so.) I think they're being cautious because they really don't want to be a part of these discussions.

 

[mikespit1200]

I honestly would like someone to walk me through what there is to be worried about. OK, so game comes out that strikes some progressive commentators as objectifying women and they say something bad about it. That very well could happen. So what? I don't understand what would be so damaging about it provided that you're a company that has made games like this in the past and believes in the product.

I agree, I don't think there'd be any actual consequences, but, to play devil's advocate, if you're the guy or girl in the company making the decision on a middle of the road product with not all that much upside, but the potential downside is you have to spend a day doing damage control on twitter and the higher ups call you into the office because they heard about the negative press you might think twice about putting out the product. It's not about actual sales or lack thereof, it's someone behind a desk making a judgement call about a business decision that might potentially impact their day-to-day. Maybe they just decided it wasn't worth the hassle. That sounds more plausible to me.

 

[GuardianE]

Then digital release only.

Again, the decision not to release due to criticism literally makes no sense. None.

I'm not suggesting it makes sense. I was merely trying to answer "what is the potential negative outcome of some backlash?"

 

[Mael]

But the post wasn't about the games being criticised, it was about its fans being directly insulted. Nor did I say the games can't be criticised.

If there's an issue with some poster insulting other people take to them or the moderation team.
You'll find people who insult other people because they buy games from a company they do not like because said company doesn't cater explicitly to them.
That doesn't mean people buying these games are an oppressed minority or some shit.

 

[Xander Crews]

Again, the decision not to release due to potential criticism literally makes no sense. None.

Aren't they saying releasing the game isn't worth the criticism? That makes sense to me. They aren't expecting sales to be big enough to make up for the western backlash.

 

[Guess Who]

I went to bed when this thread was two pages and when I woke up it was fifteen. Trying to catch up is futile.

As someone who complains about almost everything involving female characters (I get flak for not liking anything), after the DOAX3 trailer went online, I said in a discussion that I am frankly okay with DOAX3, as it is a game that is incredibly honest about exactly what it is and doesn't try to hide under the veneer of art (Blade and Soul) or in-game lore (Star Ocean 5, FF15) or character development (Fatal Frame). I don't particularly like DOAX, but I think that there will be games like it and they will sell like shit. It matters little because I'm already not a consumer of the product, will never be, and otherwise won't be able to influence it like anything else that I am a customer or a potential customer for.

The coverage of DOAX3 has been so scant that I hadn't even been aware that it's Japan/Asia only, I just assumed it was coming over. Criticism of DOA and DOAX is nothing new and didn't stop Tecmo from releasing the previous games.

"The climate has changed?" Yes, but that didn't stop Koei-Tecmo from releasing Deception or Yoru no Nai Kuni (or whatever), etc. There's no extreme social media backlash to those games.

"But the DOA brand is more popular and well-known, and therefore more likely to invite criticism?" Has there been any 'more inflammatory' coverage of the game compared to its predecessors in this post-GG environment?
Polygon has one article with no derogatory statements about the content of the game, reporting the release of a trailer.
Kotaku has one article talking about the announcement of the game and one single-line report about VR for the game.
IGN.com has a whopping 3 articles about DOAX3, reporting the announcement, the release date, and one from today about the confirmation of no western release.
Giantbomb has no news articles about DOAX3 at all. Content there is largely in the form of a fan-edited wiki.
Gamespot has...one article from today, discussing the Facebook post and reporting that KT fears backlash, hence no western release. Largely reporting, no extraneous comments about the contents of the game.
GameInformer has one article about the announcement.

Aside from perhaps one paragraph in the Kotaku announcement article, I didn't see much of anything that criticized the content of the game. Most of the coverage entailed detailing the announcement, the release date, the platforms, and its restriction to Japan and Asia. In comparison to the coverage of the older games, I'd actually say that the biggest difference is in the severe decline of coverage for DOAX altogether. Which is problematic for the brand.

Where is the purported "SJW outrage and criticism"?

nothing to add, just want to quote this to give it more attention

 

[GamerJM]

Co-opted? The vast majority of people have no idea what Gamegate is or what the fuck kind of words they use. How can a hundred subnormal losers in their basements co-opt a term?



Of course it's something that exists. I have members of my family who behave in that way. People claiming they'll never buy from Play-Asia again because they used an acronym that's associated with a tiny harassment group most people aren't aware of is a fine example of that kind of behaviour, and you see it online all the time.



It gained traction because it described a pattern of behaviour people were encountering more and more. It certainly is intended to be humorous, though.

It's not that they just used the acronym though. They retweeted GGers and have continued fanning the flames after the negative responses. Their handling of the situation past the original tweet has been really bad. After the initial tweet I was considering not supporting them and now I've made my decision that I'm not.

 

[Silexx]

Probably because they're a primarily Japan based company and this controversy is much more mild in Japan compared to here.

Lol so you think this kind of criticism only happens in the West?

 

[benicillin]

Where is the purported "SJW outrage and criticism"?

There is none. Which is why the only conclusion I've been able to reach is that they're trying to manufacture drama to drum up sales/attention because no one really cares about the series anymore, and invoking the scary spooky SJW mafia capitalizes on the general anti-feminist slant of the Internet and gaming community at large.

 

[Mael]

Ok? So doesn't that make it okay to lump it in with Dragon's Crown after all, since both games get criticized for the pandering?

No.
Dragon Crown was a game that reviewed well and received coverage because the game part was of interest.
Change the art style and the game is still there.
Remove the pandering from DoA X and you can barely sell the product.
Otherwise why don't you lump DoA X with Dragon Crown, GTA and Bloodborne while you're at it.
They can all be criticized for pandering after all!

 

[radios shipping overview]

Of course it's something that exists. I have members of my family who behave in that way. People claiming they'll never buy from Play-Asia again because they used an acronym that's associated with a tiny harassment group most people aren't aware of is a fine example of that kind of behaviour, and you see it online all the time.

I would reserve the same treatment for any business that professed support for any other hate group. Would I be a SJW for - for example - boycotting a sporting goods store that subtweeted support for the KKK?

GG is not tiny or obscure anymore.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

Co-opted? The vast majority of people have no idea what Gamegate is or what the fuck kind of words they use. How can a hundred subnormal losers in their basements co-opt a term?



Of course it's something that exists. I have members of my family who behave in that way. People claiming they'll never buy from Play-Asia again because they used an acronym that's associated with a tiny harassment group most people aren't aware of is a fine example of that kind of behaviour, and you see it online all the time.



It gained traction because it described a pattern of behaviour people were encountering more and more. It certainly is intended to be humorous, though.

If you supposedly never heard of them, how can you know they're tiny?

And no, they're not tiny at all. Just take a look on twitter.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I agree, I don't think there'd be any actual consequences, but, to play devil's advocate, if you're the guy or girl in the company making the decision on a middle of the road product with not all that much upside, but the potential downside is you have to spend a day doing damage control on twitter and the higher ups call you into the office because they heard about the negative press you might think twice about putting out the product. It's not about actual sales or lack thereof, it's someone behind a desk making a judgement call about a business decision that might potentially impact their day-to-day. Maybe they just decided it wasn't worth the hassle. That sounds more plausible to me.

Right. The generous interpretation I gave does note that this is something that I guess is remotely plausible. The numbers don't look great. Probably not going to bring in much profit, but maybe they think that "break-even" is a pretty safe bet. Five years ago, maybe they'd have called that good enough and brought it over. But maybe now "break-even or slightly better" isn't good enough to deem this worth the trouble and fears of an annoying conversation nobody is prepared far are the tipping point.

Yeah, I can maybe see that. But some seem convinced that there is a clear market for this title to be a success and now the only thing that stands in the way is concerns over the social climate. I don't buy it.

 

[TurnipFritters]

Yes but you see there was a review of DOA5 where the reviewer criticized the jiggle physics options.

 

[Valdfellgar]

Lol so you think this kind of criticism only happens in the West?

No, but the discussion we're having, and the form it's taking, isn't really happening over there, not to any significant degree.

 

[Griss]

Good idea!



So you're aware what cognitive dissonance is, right?

SJW was a derogative long before GGers co-opted the term. Its the worst kind of 'slacktivism' in the world today. I agree the term gets thrown around a lot to dismiss dissident opinions, but so do lots of other terms.

Top post. The same people who get upset at the use of the term 'SJW' are often the first to throw 'GGer' at anyone whose thoughts don't line up with their own.

It's even stranger because while SJW describes a pattern of behaviour, GGer suggests that a person is part of a particular group, one in which they're surely statistically very unlike to be in.

Both terms are mostly used for shitposting at this stage. I don't understand the latter term but wouldn't use either.

 

[MHWilliams]

I agree, I don't think there'd be any actual consequences, but, to play devil's advocate, if you're the guy or girl in the company making the decision on a middle of the road product with not all that much upside, but the potential downside is you have to spend a day doing damage control on twitter and the higher ups call you into the office because they heard about the negative press you might think twice about putting out the product. It's not about actual sales or lack thereof, it's someone behind a desk making a judgement call about a business decision that might potentially impact their day-to-day. Maybe they just decided it wasn't worth the hassle. That sounds more plausible to me.

But see, even there, the real reason is this theoretical exec hazards that DOAX3 won't sell enough. The reason it's not being release isn't criticism, because if they felt sales would justify a release, they would. It's that it won't sell enough and criticism so for a niche game isn't worth it.

But then you look at this list of other games that released this year without any issue and ask... what criticism?

Best case scenario, they're simply worried it won't sell. Worst case, they're worried it won't sell and they're worried over nothing.

 

[radios shipping overview]

So you're aware what cognitive dissonance is, right?

Sure do! I don't see any there.

SJW was a derogative long before GGers co-opted the term. Its the worst kind of 'slacktivism' in the world today. I agree the term gets thrown around a lot to dismiss dissident opinions, but so do lots of other terms.

But you agree that they've co-opted it, then? Do you think that the term has any valid function in current discourse? Name one constructive use of the term.

 

[Head.spawn]

Hey man, he asked how DOAX could evolve into 2015, and I gave him the easiest possible solution. I didn't say the game has to change, I have no control over the game, I'm just being honest with what would get me to think twice about how I view the game.

Well when you say you aren't okay with somethings entire existence because it isn't geared to you; that takes it to a completely different territory I would think.

Did I misread that?

 

[E-flux]

I just looked up that game, and even though I find some of the stuff like FemFreq a bit annoying, I'm not comfortable with what I've seen at all. Get fucked, Play-Asia.

If you are not comfortable with what you have seen, then maybe just not get the game?
I have never liked DoA games but that whole SJW shit is just ridiculous, people just seem to try and be offended by every single thing.

 

[RM8]

I went to bed when this thread was two pages and when I woke up it was fifteen. Trying to catch up is futile.

As someone who complains about almost everything involving female characters (I get flak for not liking anything), after the DOAX3 trailer went online, I said in a discussion that I am frankly okay with DOAX3, as it is a game that is incredibly honest about exactly what it is and doesn't try to hide under the veneer of art (Blade and Soul) or in-game lore (Star Ocean 5, FF15) or character development (Fatal Frame). I don't particularly like DOAX, but I think that there will be games like it and they will sell like shit. It matters little because I'm already not a consumer of the product, will never be, and otherwise won't be able to influence it like anything else that I am a customer or a potential customer for.

The coverage of DOAX3 has been so scant that I hadn't even been aware that it's Japan/Asia only, I just assumed it was coming over. Criticism of DOA and DOAX is nothing new and didn't stop Tecmo from releasing the previous games.

"The climate has changed?" Yes, but that didn't stop Koei-Tecmo from releasing Deception or Yoru no Nai Kuni (or whatever), etc. There's no extreme social media backlash to those games.

"But the DOA brand is more popular and well-known, and therefore more likely to invite criticism?" Has there been any 'more inflammatory' coverage of the game compared to its predecessors in this post-GG environment?
Polygon has one article with no derogatory statements about the content of the game, reporting the release of a trailer.
Kotaku has one article talking about the announcement of the game and one single-line report about VR for the game.
IGN.com has a whopping 3 articles about DOAX3, reporting the announcement, the release date, and one from today about the confirmation of no western release.
Giantbomb has no news articles about DOAX3 at all. Content there is largely in the form of a fan-edited wiki.
Gamespot has...one article from today, discussing the Facebook post and reporting that KT fears backlash, hence no western release. Largely reporting, no extraneous comments about the contents of the game.
GameInformer has one article about the announcement.

Aside from perhaps one paragraph in the Kotaku announcement article, I didn't see much of anything that criticized the content of the game. Most of the coverage entailed detailing the announcement, the release date, the platforms, and its restriction to Japan and Asia. In comparison to the coverage of the older games, I'd actually say that the biggest difference is in the severe decline of coverage for DOAX altogether. Which is problematic for the brand.

Where is the purported "SJW outrage and criticism"?

Man, there's no backlash even on GAF, and we're the evil prude SJW feminists of gaming forums, lol. It simply doesn't exist. And games much more pandering will keep releasing with no issues.

 

[Sai-kun]

Well when you say you aren't okay with somethings entire existence because it isn't geared to you; that takes it to a completely different territory I would think.

Did I misread that?

i'm fine with it's existence, i just don't think it's particularly interesting, engaging, challenging, or titillating in any way.

it's pedestrian to me honestly.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

If you are not comfortable with what you have seen, then maybe just not get the game?
I have never liked DoA games but that whole SJW shit is just ridiculous, people just seem to try and be offended by every single thing.

Like so offended they become insane about a backlash that doesn't even exist?

 

[Xander Crews]

I agree, I don't think there'd be any actual consequences, but, to play devil's advocate, if you're the guy or girl in the company making the decision on a middle of the road product with not all that much upside, but the potential downside is you have to spend a day doing damage control on twitter and the higher ups call you into the office because they heard about the negative press you might think twice about putting out the product. It's not about actual sales or lack thereof, it's someone behind a desk making a judgement call about a business decision that might potentially impact their day-to-day. Maybe they just decided it wasn't worth the hassle. That sounds more plausible to me.

This exactly. Whether or not the backlash would matter or not, you know this game is ripe to be Public Enemy #1.

 

[Kinyou]

No.
Dragon Crown was a game that reviewed well and received coverage because the game part was of interest.
Change the art style and the game is still there.
Remove the pandering from DoA X and you can barely sell the product.
Otherwise why don't you lump DoA X with Dragon Crown, GTA and Bloodborne while you're at it.
They can all be criticized for pandering after all!

The point was about why a japanese developer would worry about blackslash, right? So makes sense to bring up another japanese game that had a backslash over sexualized characters.