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Play-Asia says SJWs to blame for DOAX3 not coming west

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Krabboss

Member
And I mean...

pBWjlkx.png


They know what they're doing and who they're playing to. Whoever's running that account has spent some considerable time on 4chan.

Not that any further confirmation was needed that P-A's community manager is a GGer, but hopefully this clears things up for people late to figuring it out. This confected outrage spun up by P-A has resulted in a collective tantrum from GG bottom feeders and caused a shitty past few days for a few select people on twitter. People have been doxxed over this.

Claiming that anyone who complains about "SJWs" is a GGer is the sort of guilt by association I was talking about. Not thinking that there is anything wrong with the game doesn't automatically mean that you're pro harassment or think that sort of thing is okay. There are opinions other than GGer and "SJW" out there, it's not straight black and white.

There is a post in this very thread calling for a site wide boycott and saying that P-A should be a banned site here.

I totally agree that if someone is coming offended by P-A's tweets they should boycott, I don't buy from P-A myself as I've previously mentioned in this thread.

Have you seen P-A's twitter feed? They've been pandering to GG for days.

You're trying to confuse the issue by talking about the game, rather than P-A's tweets. This isn't about the quality of the game and what people think of it. It's about what you think of P-A pointing at the SJW boogeyman and then continuing to pander to a hate mob in the days following.

To make the point clearer: your desire to play the game has nothing to do with either group. No association existed between either group and this game before P-A gathered the pitchforks. You don't have to attach yourself to GG or to social justice to talk about, play, or sell the game. P-A did though, and in the aftermath we've had the harassment campaign spun up again.

This thread is about discussing the tweet. Now you can feel one of two ways about the tweet: you can agree with it, or you can disagree with it - black and white. There's no grey area here and I'm not sure why you're trying to find one. It would be impossible to not fall into either side here without just removing yourself from it entirely. There's degrees to how invested you will be in either side, sure, but the beliefs of both sides are diametrically opposed.
 

Raggie

Member
I don't really think the reason my behind financial decisions matters as much as the fact that those are my personal decisions. I'm a pretty emotional person, and I could opt to not do something for the littlest, silly reasons (and vice versa), whether they're primary or secondary factors. Criticizing those decisions is fair game, but telling me that I fail in doing something I'm not actually trying to do is just weird.

I guess I could sort of see their point, in that all these different people with their individual reasons for "boycotting" also inadvertently contributes to a some kind of a "cause," and that "cause" is failing. But if none of those people actually subscribe to that "cause," is it really relevant to bring up?

This is what I think. My decision not to use this store anymore has nothing to do with an attempt to hurt them financially, or to make a point. They are going to keep going with or without me. I just won't be financing it.
 

Sblargh

Banned
I don't think GG moves the needle much on game sales and I doubt DOAX3 will shake out that differently.

The games GG has championed have all been pretty big failures while the titles they've decided to take down (including, unbelievably, That Dragon, Cancer) have usually made their goals as they defined success.

They were against a game about a couple dealing with their son's cancer?
 

May16

Member
Certainly not sign-the-petition organized one. Just people here and there...

"People here and there" don't buy beer because they get addicted easily.

"People here and there" don't buy things that don't interest them.

My dad won't step foot into Wal-Mart because of how they treated my uncle when he worked there.

Those aren't boycotts. Those are "people here and there" and there's a fairly huge difference.

Update:
Holy shit, P-A is really embracing this:
pBWjlkx.png

Wow.
 

Palculator

Unconfirmed Member
I don't really think the reason my behind financial decisions matters as much as the fact that those are my personal decisions. I'm a pretty emotional person, and I could opt to not do something for the littlest, silly reasons (and vice versa), whether they're primary or secondary factors. Criticizing those decisions is fair game, but telling me that I fail in doing something I'm not actually trying to do is just weird.

I guess I could sort of see their point, in that all these different people with their individual reasons for "boycotting" also inadvertently contributes to a some kind of a "cause," and that "cause" is failing. But if none of those people actually subscribe to that "cause," is it really relevant to bring up?
I don't think they are telling you personally (or have they tweeted @you? Wouldn't suprise me) you failed in achieving something. They are gloating about people refusing their services over this not affecting their bottom line, therefore what they perceive to be a boycott -- with no assertion of an organised effort -- being meaningless. It's more about effect than cause, because as you say, those are largely irrelevant. Just like nobody's talking about each member of the Montgomery Bus Boycott*'s individual motivation and focuses on the positive effects it had. They are in turn focusing on the lack of effect disgruntled customers they are losing are having compared to the (at least momentary) gain from this controversy.

The latter part of your post hints at the larger problem, though: That they consistently interpreted this affair as one group versus the other. Which is misguided, but not surprising considering that's the stance they started the conversation with.
This is what I think. My decision not to use this store anymore has nothing to do with an attempt to hurt them financially, or to make a point. They are going to keep going with or without me. I just won't be financing it.
You don't think refusing to give them money is hurting them financially and announcing it multiple times on a forum is making a point? At least assuming you were actually a Play-Asia customer before, or planning on being one. Otherwise there's no change in the financial situation, obviously.

*sorry for kind of insulting the Civil Rights Movement with this comparison. But it's the first boycott that popped into my head, even though the issue is much more important than this ridiculous situation.
 

system11

Member
Have you seen P-A's twitter feed? They've been pandering to GG for days.

Again with this? They're simply trolling some people they disagree with the values and message of. Rejecting group A does not imply support of group B.

I hope you don't work in politics or law enforcement.
 

system11

Member
American McGee posted a longer comment:

CUtYp5FUkAA8XBh.jpg


I agree completely.

Complete agreement. This also reminds me I need to watch the Alice: Otherlands DVD which landed at my door last week. I really thought that Kickstarter was going to fail, so many delays and setbacks.
 
Yup. Queue people reminding everyone that we can still criticise art and it doesn't exist in a vacuum, even though his comment is about suppression, not criticism.
I thought the drama was him 'supporting' gamergate* and not him supporting DOAX3.



*Probably inadvertently; honestly I agree he's probably just directly going off what he sees through a casual look and not harboring some sinister ulterior motive people are quick to assume.
 

Palculator

Unconfirmed Member
I thought the drama was him 'supporting' gamergate* and not him supporting DOAX3.
It was, at least in here it seemed to be about people lumping him in with GG, not sure what the people on Twitter/Facebook were saying to him. Seems like that post of his was more concerned about the possibility of public backlash silencing expression. Whenever someone brings up artistic freedom you usually get a bunch of knee-jerk responses about people also having the freedom to criticise, forgetting the only reason they can criticise and debate is because it has been allowed to exist in the first place. Just wanted to preempt those.
 

raphier

Banned
"There are good and bad elements about this movement that specializes on harassing people whose views they disagree. I am not pro or against this hate group who wishes to shame women and transgenders out of this industry. That makes me neutral and level headed"

Except they are both hate groups. One "hates" women, the other secretly "hates" men and is oppressed by any personal demons/problems.
 

Lime

Member
American McGee posted a longer comment:

CUtYp5FUkAA8XBh.jpg


I agree completely.

Complete agreement. This also reminds me I need to watch the Alice: Otherlands DVD which landed at my door last week. I really thought that Kickstarter was going to fail, so many delays and setbacks.

...

The entire post has absolutely nothing to do with GG and it just obscures the entire topic. Freedom of expression does not have anything to do with GG - GG is about a bunch of neo-conservative nerd bigots who cannot handle their video games being exposed to criticism against the status quo, so they result to conspiracy theories to terrorize women and non-hegemonic identities out of video game culture.

McGee and both of you are absolutely missing the point. Him supporting this has nothing to do with freedom of expression or anything like that - it has to do with the fact that he (and others) are willfully enabling and pandering to a hate movement.
 

raphier

Banned
Haha what

in the end whose fault it is that women are being oppressed or inequal? the men ofcourse, the toys for boys, the color blue. Which is not far off from the reality, so it makes that liking boys/straight seem like a bad deal. Basically tumblr.

you wanna know whats REAL BAD?

i'm incrdedbily drunk

and even i see how fucking awful your post its. think about that.

whatever, I think my point stands.
 
I will say we do have realistic limits on the suppression of art. There are certain games that are dead at retail, thus they don't get made. The biggest storefronts won't offer certain games, console manufacturers won't license games with certain ratings, etc.
 
in the end whose fault it is that women are being oppressed or inequal? the men ofcourse, the toys for boys, the color blue. Which is not far off from the reality, so it makes that liking boys/straight seem like a bad deal. Basically tumblr.

Did someone import you from the 1950s
 

PtM

Banned
...

The entire post has absolutely nothing to do with GG and it just obscures the entire topic. Freedom of expression does not have anything to do with GG - GG is about a bunch of neo-conservative nerd bigots who cannot handle their video games being exposed to criticism against the status quo, so they result to conspiracy theories to terrorize women and non-hegemonic identities out of video game culture.

McGee and both of you are absolutely missing the point. Him supporting this has nothing to do with freedom of expression or anything like that - it has to do with the fact that he (and others) are willfully enabling and pandering to a hate movement.
Actually, this thread is about ethics in Public Relations. No, really. The whole GG talk is peripheral name-calling.
 
I don't support the suppression of art but I don't think that applies to this situation so I am unsure why he's bringing it up.
Because he's literally going off what Play-Asia said happened so to him it's 'game gets western release cancelled due to protest' and not 'KT hold off western release due to fears of a potential protest', with the GG-element being incidental.

I don't agree with it given the context of what actually happened here, but if the former idea was what I thought was really happening or if the FB post was just a general statement about games' content then there's nothing really objectionable here. I don't see the point in boycotting McGee at all here, either way.
 

Zaph

Member
[IMG ]http://i.imgur.com/u3cmu3T.jpg[/IMG]

Websites now baaaaasically promising non-low review scores in advance, in return for free review copies.

It's so easy to play people in this industry, I honestly can't blame P-A for trying it
 

Oersted

Member
They have my respect haha. Not giving in too oversensitive bullshit.

Replying out of pity: what oversensitive bullshit?

whatever, I think my point stands.

Your point resembles a failed grasp on reality. So yeah, it stands, in misery.

no, but there's always nutcases where valid problems turn into witchhunts for everything. The whole SJW thing is being taken seriously because people overreach. this thread is an example of that.

The thread is an example how easily Gamergaters are fooled.
 

Sblargh

Banned
I am on the camp that still support the art even if the artist is an asshole. I only played the second Alice game and thought it was cool. Recommend it. Also applaud him for sticking to his guns and releasing his game when there was so much against it.

Having said all that, I don't know what he is on about. Saying he is disinformed is the only thing making sense here as no one is calling for any censorship as has been said, it's just seem like he doesn't know.

I do find issue in his equivalency of GG and Anita. One is a hate group who does try to harm people via doxxing and harassing, the other is just a person exposing certain points of view, which of course you can agree or not.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I find it sad how this #GG is not some wierd isolated 2014 online event, and is instead a tiny group who has instigated an ongoing culture war in gaming (not unlike a small terrorist attack changing society forever). And anti-#GG are just as much to blame, seeing any hint of #GG influence as an evil to stridently crusade against.

And I find it sad how games like DOAX3 have been hijacked by this war... We all know it's now going to be a symbol of pride for some #GGers and a symbol of ire for some anti-#GGers.

I think gaming turned serious last year... And we can't turn back the clock. I wish I could say "I'm not participating in this madness" but that's just idealism. This is happening. Gaming and the content of games is a now a cultural battleground. I just wanted to enjoy some frivolous entertainment...
 

PtM

Banned
I wish I could say "I'm not participating in this madness" but that's just idealism. This is happening. Gaming and the content of games is a now a cultural battleground. I just wanted to enjoy some frivolous entertainment...
Play some games?
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
...

The entire post has absolutely nothing to do with GG and it just obscures the entire topic. Freedom of expression does not have anything to do with GG - GG is about a bunch of neo-conservative nerd bigots who cannot handle their video games being exposed to criticism against the status quo, so they result to conspiracy theories to terrorize women and non-hegemonic identities out of video game culture.

McGee and both of you are absolutely missing the point. Him supporting this has nothing to do with freedom of expression or anything like that - it has to do with the fact that he (and others) are willfully enabling and pandering to a hate movement.

But this isn't really about gamergate. Yes, gamergate followers will align with P-A's or even McGee's position, but the argument here is a reductio ad hitlerum. Just because gamergate agrees with a position (and I also agree that the triggering comment is uncalled for) does not make it wrong. I cannot see any proof of McGee or even P-A bullying, or harming anyone, which is the reason cited for the strong and absolute positions here towards anyone who is associated with gamergate. If you cannot find proof of them also acting in such a way, it is completely unfair to put them under the same banner you claim to have the explicit reason to exist to bully others. Mind you, P-A's triggering message certainly is appealing to gamergate followers and plays with stereotypes about the feminist movement. I don't think this message was fine. However, this still does not make P-A part of gamergate or even a supporter of gamergate, nor does it make them wrong in the specific situation.

Of course, what is being criticized here is not censorship in the stricter sense, because there are no laws against sexualised content in games. However, in the weaker sense, rallying against production of certain kind of art is striving for a weaker form of censorship, too. Certainly everyone is entitled to his opinion and may freely say that he does not like certain things in a critic, but what I hear around here in the monthly feminism thread goes beyond that. It is political action taken against such products by working in social media to promote social ostracism of such media. The result of this may or may not be that games like DoAX will not get released here, because publisher fear the backlash, which is not worth the amount of money to be gained by a niché product.

Now where the reductio ad hitlerum comes into play is, that the position to be against these organized campaigns against certain forms of art, is one that is also popular with gamergate. Concluding, that because it is something gamergate-followers would agree with, is making the point wrong or the person stating this a lesser person, is inacceptable though. I know that not everyone is arguing like this, but some, especially the ones touting a boycott, do, and it is an intellectual dishonest (or, maybe a bit better from a moral perspective, intellectually limited) position that sadly gets accepted around here.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I have no fucking who you are talking to and what you are talking about, but yeah, play some games.
You don't see it?

"Is the Play-Asia Twitter manager evoking #GG by using the term SJW??? Boo hiss."

"... They said 'trigger'!!! Definitely one of the bad guys(tm)"

This whole thread is about "are they on the bad team?" And the fact that there are even these teams in gaming now is sad as hell.
 
You don't see it?

"Is the Play-Asia Twitter manager evoking #GG by using the term SJW??? Boo hiss."

"... They said 'trigger'!!! Definitely one of the bad guys(tm)"

This whole thread is about "are they on the bad team?" And the fact that there are even these teams in gaming now is sad as hell.

The thread is actually about a literally manufactured controversy and how people are taking advantage of the gullible, angry, and empty to make money.

Good luck
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
The thread is actually about a literally manufactured controversy and how people are taking advantage of the gullible, angry, and empty to make money.

Good luck
The fact that there is faction of "gullible, angry and empty" and those who are against them, is what I'm talking about.

Like most human societies, we have devolved into angry teams. Inevitable, yes. But sad.
 

Oersted

Member
But this isn't really about gamergate. Yes, gamergate followers will align with P-A's or even McGee's position, but the argument here is a reductio ad hitlerum. Just because gamergate agrees with a position (and I also agree that the triggering comment is uncalled for) does not make it wrong. I cannot see any proof of McGee or even P-A bullying, or harming anyone, which is the reason cited for the strong and absolute positions here towards anyone who is associated with gamergate. If you cannot find proof of them also acting in such a way, it is completely unfair to put them under the same banner you claim to have the explicit reason to exist to bully others. Mind you, P-A's triggering message certainly is appealing to gamergate followers and plays with stereotypes about the feminist movement. I don't think this message was fine. However, this still does not make P-A part of gamergate or even a supporter of gamergate, nor does it make them wrong in the specific situation.

You can pander to a hate group more than just bullying. Follow Play Asia for examples.

Of course, what is being criticized here is not censorship in the stricter sense, because there are no laws against sexualised content in games. However, in the weaker sense, rallying against production of certain kind of art is striving for a weaker form of censorship, too. Certainly everyone is entitled to his opinion and may freely say that he does not like certain things in a critic, but what I hear around here in the monthly feminism thread goes beyond that. It is political action taken against such products by working in social media to promote social ostracism of such media. The result of this may or may not be that games like DoAX will not get released here, because publisher fear the backlash, which is not worth the amount of money to be gained by a niché product.

If Koie Tecmo would care so much about the public opinion, they would not have greenlighted a game profitting of Otakus.

And again, you made no point whatsoever why it would be not worth it. Especially in the videogame industry, as immature as it is, controversy is a selling point. As a matter of fact, Play Asia plays into that with its fabricated backlash.
 

Lime

Member
I find it sad how this #GG is not some wierd isolated 2014 online event, and is instead a tiny group who has instigated an ongoing culture war in gaming (not unlike a small terrorist attack changing society forever). And anti-#GG are just as much to blame, seeing any hint of #GG influence as an evil to stridently crusade against.

I don't know about others, but I have zero tolerance for hate movements. I have personally experienced the effects that this shit has caused the industry and culture both online and offline. I don't see why I am to blame for calling it out and condemning it.

And it's not just a tiny isolated group somewhere on some racist board. There are gaffers who are in agreement with them, but they mostly remain silent because of fear of being lumped in with the crazy toxic parts of it. I know that some even monitor the posts and comment on it outside of this forum with the occasional passive-aggressive post in other threads.

a symbol of ire for some anti-#GGers.

no not really, since the game DOAX3 has nothing to do with this. It's just PA and GG.

I just wanted to enjoy some frivolous entertainment...

I also want to play games and enjoy frivolous entertainemt, but I can't because people will harass or terrorize me if I state my opinion about something. Colleagues and I are afraid to speak up online or mention these things with our real names attached. Gamergate has made this shit so toxic that it's directly dangerous to even address some of the political aspects of games. There's been many times where I have had second thoughts about saying something in a public forum because of the potential to be targeted by someone.

But this isn't really about gamergate.

Adopting the same rhetorical language and concepts, retweeting literal Gamergaters, and linking to Breitbart articles. I don't know how this couldn't be related to that hate movement. You're in denial.
 

Oersted

Member
You don't see it?

"Is the Play-Asia Twitter manager evoking #GG by using the term SJW??? Boo hiss."

"... They said 'trigger'!!! Definitely one of the bad guys(tm)"

This whole thread is about "are they on the bad team?" And the fact that there are even these teams in gaming now is sad as hell.

People are against a hate movement. Yes. Deal with it?
 

system11

Member
...

The entire post has absolutely nothing to do with GG and it just obscures the entire topic. Freedom of expression does not have anything to do with GG - GG is about a bunch of neo-conservative nerd bigots who cannot handle their video games being exposed to criticism against the status quo, so they result to conspiracy theories to terrorize women and non-hegemonic identities out of video game culture.

McGee and both of you are absolutely missing the point. Him supporting this has nothing to do with freedom of expression or anything like that - it has to do with the fact that he (and others) are willfully enabling and pandering to a hate movement.

The whole topic has nothing to do with GG, that's only been brought into it by people so invested in their war of ideas that they can only see in SJW vs GG terms, rather than "lots of people are tired of being told what to think and having that message rammed down their throats, so they're supporting a retailer who has exploited that feeling now that the message has been a factor in a game not coming to the West".

This does not make them GG supporters or enablers, a lot of neutral people are really just sick and tired of it now. I'm also tired of the GG people and all their crazy conspiracy drama, but at least they seem to mostly exist in places you have to actively seek out making them exceptionally easy to avoid having to listen to.
 

Oersted

Member
The whole topic has nothing to do with GG, that's only been brought into it by people so invested in their war of ideas that they can only see in SJW vs GG terms, rather than "lots of people are tired of being told what to think and having that message rammed down their throats, so they're supporting a retailer who has exploited that feeling".

This does not make them GG supporters or enablers, a lot of neutral people are really just sick and tired of it now. I'm also tired of the GG people and all their crazy conspiracy drama, but at least they seem to mostly exist in places you have to actively seek out making them exceptionally easy to avoid having to listen to.

To quote a Internet classic, citation needed.
 
That wild tangent American Mc-Gee made shows he has no real idea what GG is about and why people and so upset by his P-A comments. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's not coming from a bad place.
 

Sblargh

Banned
The fact that there is faction of "gullible, angry and empty" and those who are against them, is what I'm talking about.

Like most human societies, we have devolved into angry teams. Inevitable, yes. But sad.

One angry team is a hate group, the other angry team is pissed at hate groups. One angry team wants to exclude people from the hobby, the other angry team wants to include.

There are "teams" and "factions" or whatever? Sure, if you want to see it this way, but the equivalency is false. And it's not neutral. One group is screaming to women "get out of here!" and the other is screaming "stop being insane! They have just as much a right to this as you do!".

Saying both groups of angry people are the same makes me angry. The only reason this anger is "recent" is because then women and gays "knew their place" that videogame is a male heteronormative hobby and dared not to intrude or learned to "grow a thick skin", i.e., accept abuse to not rock the boat.

The bullies and the people angry because they are tired of being bullied are not the same type of angry.
 

Lime

Member
The whole topic has nothing to do with GG, that's only been brought into it by people so invested in their war of ideas that they can only see in SJW vs GG terms, rather than "lots of people are tired of being told what to think and having that message rammed down their throats, so they're supporting a retailer who has exploited that feeling".

This does not make them GG supporters or enablers, a lot of neutral people are really just sick and tired of it now. I'm also tired of the GG people and all their crazy conspiracy drama, but at least they seem to mostly exist in places you have to actively seek out making them exceptionally easy to avoid having to listen to.

If you create a scenario out of blue air about some non-existing feminist boycott in order to make money that directly confirms the conspiracy theory fears by Gamergaters and insecure gamers (quoting Steve Youngblood "This is it people! This is not a drill! We knew this day would come! They kept trying to tell us that they weren't trying to take our games away from us but look! It happened! Everyone to your battle stations! Social Justice Warriors have just blocked Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball from releasing in the West!"!"), all the while using the same rhetoric, retweeting gamergaters, and linking to fucking Breitbart, then I would say that by implication, you associate yourself with that hate movement.

Also, for the millionth time, no one is telling people how to think about their games! You enjoy titillation in your games? Perfect, you do you, there's nothing wrong with that.

That wild tangent American Mc-Gee made shows he has no real idea what GG is about and why people and so upset by his P-A comments. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's not coming from a bad place.

Yeah I just think he's misinformed and that he hasn't actually figured out what he's doing. He inserted himself in a topic he didn't properly educate himself about, although I have no idea how he could have avoided the reporting on the whole harassment thing.
 
Now where the reductio ad hitlerum comes into play is, that the position to be against these organized campaigns against certain forms of art, is one that is also popular with gamergate. Concluding, that because it is something gamergate-followers would agree with, is making the point wrong or the person stating this a lesser person, is inacceptable though. I know that not everyone is arguing like this, but some, especially the ones touting a boycott, do, and it is an intellectual dishonest (or, maybe a bit better from a moral perspective, intellectually limited) position that sadly gets accepted around here.

This is very on point. Concluding that because PA is doing something that a so called "hate" group would agree with, makes them akin to a hate group is really a form of ad hominem. We should be addressing ideals and facts and not taking shots at character to prove a point.

And even beyond that, I am sure gamegate has some fine people. You can't judge a group by its extreme members. It is becoming very intolerant around here for some people. This is potentially very bad. You don't want to live in a space where only like minded individuals are capable of speaking their minds. This is not a good environment for real discussion where people with opposing viewpoints can hash it out. You really just get people agreeing with each other. Demonizing GG shouldn't be so readily accepted.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I don't know about others, but I have zero tolerance for hate movements. I don't see why I am to blame for this.

And it's not just a tiny isolated group. There are gaffers who are in agreement with them, but they mostly remain silent because of fear of being lumped in with the crazy toxic parts of it. I know that some even monitor the posts and comment on it outside of this forum with the occasional passive-aggressive post in other threads.



no not really, since the game DOAX3 has nothing to do with this. It's just PA and GG.



I also want to play games, but I can't because people will harass or terrorize me if I state my opinion about something. Colleagues and I are afraid to speak up online or mention these things with our real names attached. Gamergate has made this shit so toxic that it's directly dangerous to even address some of the political aspects of games. There's been many times where I have had second thoughts about saying something in a public forum because of the potential to be targeted by someone.
Make no mistake, I think #GG are the instigators. I've written essays on #GG and I consider it very problematic. I compared them to a terrorist attack, right? But like a terrorist attack, the rest of society becomes drawn into this back and forth battle that is just lamentable. America and 9/11 etc.

It's just sad we've been divided, and that us on the non-#GG side have been drawn into a conflict that doesn't seem to be coming to any kind of end.

People are against a hate movement. Yes. Deal with it?

And isn't it tragic that we're embattled and constantly fighting hints of evidence of solidarity with this movement?

How could you not agree with "this is sad"? Gaming was not like this until the last 2 years.
 
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