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[thelastword]

nah.

why on earth would you want your CPU/RAM/GPU to downclock when playing a game? i don't overclock my CPU to 5.1GHz for it to dip down to 5.0/4.9/4.8/4.7GHz! i don't overclock my GPU because i want it to drop down the clock/memory speeds when playing a game. shit why did i even bother overclocking my RAM?

you want it running as fast as possible when playing a game. there is no excuse for PS5 to downclock at all next gen unless the game can easily go over whatever the display is capable of. i mean, there is no benefit to running a game at 4k 120fps if your tv is only 60hz. there is no benefit at running at 5K 240fps if the TV is only capable of 4K 120hz!

Sony most likely downclocks because it reduces heat. it's always why the made the PS5 beefy as heck because they let people who cried "BUT MUH PS4 SOUNDS LIKE AJET ENGINEN!!11!!!!" get into their head. mark my words they will regret it and 3-4 years from now when someone posts a Digital Foundry video and cries that PS5 performs worse than XSX ... well you can blame Sony for half assing it.

A console is not a PC. All that overclocking, maxing out clocks has never been a console's domain. Your full tower PC, your elaborate water loop, the huge heat sink on your space heater Intel cpu and your 2080ti, cannot be maintained in a console form factor..... Of course, let's not forget your 1600w gpu for when you are pushing these Intel/NV systems to the max and pushing up power draw to energize an island.....

There's a reason Sony went with AMD, they are the best when it comes to APU's, they are on the lowest node, meaning more power per watt, less heat. Cerny knew he had to mitigate lots of bottlenecks and design some unique pathways to make this dedicated gaming device as fast and as efficient as he could make it. The devs are already impressed, I guess we will see even more as the months and years go what these exhilarated devs will deliver.

I think it will be an interesting gen, for just that. A dev who goes bonkers on the cpu; ai, physics, draw distance... A dev who goes crazy on detail with two fighters on screen due to the ssd, background details, multi-tiered levels in fighters can really take another level since DOA. A dev going with some unique game play and level design because the system has no glaring bottlenecks......in truth, hardware can impact the software or the vision devs have for software and I think you will see so many unique ideas, so many cool implementations as a result of the ssd, the controller, the sound unit and the balancing act of the variable clocks with smartshift....

 

[Virex]

Has Hellpoint Dev confirmed any of this?

 

[Explosive Zombie]

In an ideological war hard proof isn't your concern, you can use theories and assumptions to say a system performs worse than well... literally anyone with hands on it says it does. What really upsets people about getting banned over this is it's literally all the ammo they have until we find out price differences and that can go either way. You might say to me, but at peak performance it still isn't at the TFLOPs of Series X, it's true but for some people that's not enough and they need you to believe it's a much worse situation. Why? What's their investment? Do we have actual investors in this forum? Possibly, some like to claim money is the only reason someone would "shill" so hard for one side but honestly as I stated at the start this has become ideological, the console war is more aggressive than American politics at the moment though maybe still lagging behind when it comes to the amount of FUD. If you asked someone on gaming side who they're voting for in November they might accidentally say Sony/Microsoft instead of a Presidential candidate.

 

[Iamborghini]

If the salesman has to constantly remind me how amazing the product is, then it probably isn’t that amazing.

In France we have a very small car named Renault Twingo, and you know what? In advertisements they will always talk about how enormous space you have in it. Or another manufacturer with a big car (monospace) they will constantly tell you how easy it is to park and agile to drive. They always try to erase the « flaws » inherent of the product.

So maybe that is why they talk about this variable frequency.

 

[Journey]

I love the 9.2 TERAFLOPS cry.

9.2 TERAFLOPS! Ahaha Sony you are shit, go home! You suck!

Oh and btw, all next gen Xbox games will also have to run on 4TF hardware! But THAT DOESN'T MATTER! Sony 9.2 TERAFLOPS ahahah!

By this same logic, since all PC games run on a GTX 1050, there's just no point in buying an RTX 2080 since it will have no benefit at all

 

[ZywyPL]

By this same logic, since all PC games run on a GTX 1050, there's just no point in buying an RTX 2080 since it will have no benefit at all

That's not a valid logic for PC where everyone can decide at what resolution and refresh rate he want's to play, whereas comsoles are set to a certain framerate/resolution above which any extra power is indeed being wasted.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

That's not a valid logic for PC where everyone can decide at what resolution and refresh rate he want's to play, whereas comsoles are set to a certain framerate/resolution above which any extra power is indeed being wasted.

Didn't they specify PS5 will always have a performance and fidelity option for games? So that's at least the two options.

 

[Journey]

That's not a valid logic for PC where everyone can decide at what resolution and refresh rate he want's to play, whereas comsoles are set to a certain framerate/resolution above which any extra power is indeed being wasted.

I know right? Xbox games like Panzer Dragon Orta play at 480p and muddy textures on my Xbox One X, there's no point

Oh wait!

 

[Hendrick's]

It doesn't need to boost from anything. A game will use what it needs, as long as it hits it's target. No need for extra heat and extra processing, till it's needed.....It's a smart design and it will help with cooling and the longevity of the machine.

So it's boosting from nothing to whatever it needs. Makes perfect sense.

 

[Psykodad]

So it's boosting from nothing to whatever it needs. Makes perfect sense.

It's boosting by default.

 

[Hendrick's]

It's boosting by default.

Boosting from what? What are the base clocks?

 

[Psykodad]

Boosting from what? What are the base clocks?

I don't know. Ask Cerny.

I think you're too hung up on the word "boost".

 

[Amiga]

I don't know. Ask Cerny.

I think you're too hung up on the word "boost".

base clock is the one announced, 10+. it's better to describe what happens as throttling down occasionally.
even in the PC market some GPUs are sold clocked higher than the reference. some are clocked lower than reference for laptops. so base clock is whatever the hardware seller sets it to be.

 

[Psykodad]

base clock is the one announced, 10+. it's better to describe what happens as throttling down occasionally.
even in the PC market some GPUs are sold clocked higher than the reference. some are clocked lower than reference for laptops. so base clock is whatever the hardware seller sets it to be.

Yeah, I know.
But since I'm not familiair enough with PC, I wasn't sure how to say it correctly, since some people will undoubtly nitpick posts to divert the discussion.

 

[longdi]

Yup, that's how it works.

10.3, 9.7, it's still +-10, who cares.

Actually, it's very easy to prove, because we have Cerny's own words to back it up, the PS5 lead architect - we know from Cerny himself that the clocks aren't fixed but variable, and capped at 2230MHz, but he or Sony never said anything if/what the minimum clock is, so based on that we can assume that PS5 GPU operates at anything between 1-2230MHz. And actually as per the so-called "race to idle", again explained by Cerny himself, the GPU tries to minimize the clock/thermals depending on the workload, so technically, there is a scenario where the GPU will be operating at 2000MHz, a.k.a. infamous 9.2TF. Because TFlops are only theoretical, right? More than that, the clock can actually be even lower, and generate like just 3-4TF in scenarios like when you're looking at an empty skybox or a wall, because there's nothing to render other than the main character and a flat texture. Also bare in mind games on consoles despite having framerate locked at 30/60 still operate with some headroom (that's how they achieve steady framerate), which can be easily seen in all the games with uncapped framerate mode, so if the engine is forced to render 30 frames while all the 10.3TF allow it to render like 35-40FPS the GPU will most likely tune down its clocks as all the power is not really needed for 30, and as per SmartShift might give all that saved power to the CPU, if needed of course. There you go.

At 9.7TF, it is a 25% disadvantage though. Will PS5 be cheaper?

All your wall of text about skybox race to idle..same thing your predecessors in this forums, tried to explain.
You realise we dont care how the hardware reacts during a game, because that is a given with modern gpu/cpu.

What our issue is, the marketing effort to paint PS5 as a 10.3TF, and their fans keep waving off as 15% un-noticeable deficit.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

At 9.7TF, it is a 25% disadvantage though. Will PS5 be cheaper?

All your wall of text about skybox race to idle..same thing your predecessors in this forums, tried to explain.
You realise we dont care how the hardware reacts during a game, because that is a given with modern gpu/cpu.

What our issue is, the marketing effort to paint PS5 as a 10.3TF, and their fans keep waving off as 15% un-noticeable deficit.

What marketing effort?

It's a 10.3 tflop console anyway. End off.

 

[ZywyPL]

At 9.7TF, it is a 25% disadvantage though. Will PS5 be cheaper?

All your wall of text about skybox race to idle..same thing your predecessors in this forums, tried to explain.
You realise we dont care how the hardware reacts during a game, because that is a given with modern gpu/cpu.

What our issue is, the marketing effort to paint PS5 as a 10.3TF, and their fans keep waving off as 15% un-noticeable deficit.

Well the manufacturers always do that nowadays, right? All the CPUs, GPUs, even SSDs have their performance labaled as "up to", while the real world performance vary, especially laptops where their CPUs are cut in half after a minute or two if you stress them. As for the difference, when the games are locked to 30FPS, it doesn't really matter how much higher the console could go, we won't get to experience it anyway.

 

[longdi]

Well the manufacturers always do that nowadays, right? All the CPUs, GPUs, even SSDs have their performance labaled as "up to", while the real world performance vary, especially laptops where their CPUs are cut in half after a minute or two if you stress them. As for the difference, when the games are locked to 30FPS, it doesn't really matter how much higher the console could go, we won't get to experience it anyway.

Yes i hate such UP TO thing, especially with Ryzen 3000. My cpu is advertised up to 4.7Ghz, but only in fraction of a ms for some mundane task, that i managed to catch 2 threads at 4.7Ghz.

That is why MS sustained openess is such fresh air.

I would applaud Sony if they had listed a range of ~TF instead of just 10.3TF

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Yes i hate such UP TO thing, especially with Ryzen 3000. My cpu is advertised up to 4.7Ghz, but only in fraction of a ms for some mundane task, that i managed to catch 2 threads at 4.7Ghz.

That is why MS sustained openess is such fresh air.

I would applaud Sony if they had listed a range of ~TF instead of just 10.3TF

Lmao

Tflops are theoretical peaks. Its not sustained in either console

 

[Von Hugh]

OP is still shook that PS5 doesn't offer more than 12 TFLOPS.

 

[thelastword]

Boosting from what? What are the base clocks?

If you checked my post on the 3rd page. All systems boost. PS5 just has a smarter boosting system tied to it's power delivery, cooling system and system load....

Regular PCs and even the Xbox Series X boost based on available thermal headroom.

 

[cragarmi]

Then where is the 60FPS performance?

As their conference was only streamed at 30 there wasn't much point in showing any games running in a 60 FPS mode, as it made more sense to show off the extra fidelity. You are not getting 4k, raytraced, next gen games, running at 60fps running on any console, with maybe the exception being racing games targeting high frames.

I believe demon souls will have a 60fps mode, probably dropping the raytracing and giving you 1440p or a bit higher. Horizon II could likely also offer such a mode as the engine is not tied to 30fps.

 

[UnNamed]

To me looks very very simple.

PS5 APU can sustain up to 200W since 200W means 65C° (numbers are just for example). More than 200W means more than 65C°, not sustainable, too hot. Easy.

PS5 APU use this basic setting: 50W/3ghz for the CPU, 150W/1.8ghz for the GPU. Total 200W/65.

You want more GPU power in games less CPU intensive? Overclock the GPU to 2,23ghz at 185W. You only left 15W, so underclock the CPU to 2ghz, but since the game is not CPU intensive, it's sufficient.

You want more CPU power? Overclock the CPU and downclock the GPU to reach the 200W limit.

 

[Thugnificient]

The PS5 has a 18% deficit though, no? 10.28 vs 12.2. 18.2%., not 15%.

 

[Hendrick's]

The PS5 has a 18% deficit though, no? 10.28 vs 12.2. 18.2%., not 15%.

Only when boosting.

 

[pawel86ck]

OP is still shook that PS5 doesn't offer more than 12 TFLOPS.

I was shocked too because many insiders were saying literally the same thing PS5 > XSX FLOPS. It looks like however these were only PS trolls with vivid imagination just pretending to be insiders. The worst part is, some of these dishonest people are still here (osiris black for example).

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Devs can build games from the ground up for a 10.3tflop system with its SSD/IO. There's no shackling to a technologically ancient 1.3tflops system or 4tflops SKU. Whatever the method, SGS will blow minds.

 

[PropellerEar]

The PS5 has a 18% deficit though, no? 10.28 vs 12.2. 18.2%., not 15%.

Official number for XseX is 12TF.
Deficit in percentage is kind of weird concept here, maybe should keep to lower / higher performance(%).

 

[Thugnificient]

Official number for XseX is 12TF.
Deficit in percentage is kind of weird concept here, maybe should keep to lower / higher performance(%).

Official number is "over 12TFLOPs".

Just do the math. 52x64x1825x2=12.147 TFLOPs.

That’s just in compute though. In mem bandwidth the XSX has an overall edge of like 6%.

 

[PropellerEar]

Official number is "over 12TFLOPs".

Just do the math. 52x64x1825x2=12.147 TFLOPs.

That’s just in compute though. In mem bandwidth the XSX has an overall edge of like 6%.

Not going by official numbers and rounding up freely

 

[Thugnificient]

Not going by official numbers and rounding up freely

From the Velocity Architecture paper. That's as official as it gets.

They are already rounding it down to 12TFLOPs. It's not actual 12TFLOPs flat.

The formula for getting compute isn't hard, it's basic multiplications and we got all the necessary numbers.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Months later and people still have no idea what Smartshift is and does, and prefer to waste their time trolling online instead of researching...

 

[PropellerEar]

From the Velocity Architecture paper. That's as official as it gets.

They are already rounding it down to 12TFLOPs. It's not actual 12TFLOPs flat.

The formula for getting compute isn't hard, it's basic multiplications and we got all the necessary numbers.

First time I see them saying more than 12TF in their official material.
Rules for rounding up for are not hard either.

 

[oldergamer]

I know right? Xbox games like Panzer Dragon Orta play at 480p and muddy textures on my Xbox One X, there's no point

Oh wait!

wow looks pretty good considering its almost 18 years old?

 

[turtlepowa]

First time I see them saying more than 12TF in their official material.
Rules for rounding up for are not hard either.

Well, if you aready have 12 you don't need to point at numbers like let's say 10.28

 

[Zero707]

The haunt of GitHub continues.

Also Isn't Dell G5 SE in the market right now ? it's only laptop that support AMD SmartShift technology
you can get brief idea of how PS5 Boost mode works

 

[Panajev2001a]

To me looks very very simple.

PS5 APU can sustain up to 200W since 200W means 65C° (numbers are just for example). More than 200W means more than 65C°, not sustainable, too hot. Easy.

PS5 APU use this basic setting: 50W/3ghz for the CPU, 150W/1.8ghz for the GPU. Total 200W/65.

You want more GPU power in games less CPU intensive? Overclock the GPU to 2,23ghz at 185W. You only left 15W, so underclock the CPU to 2ghz, but since the game is not CPU intensive, it's sufficient.

You want more CPU power? Overclock the CPU and downclock the GPU to reach the 200W limit.

It depends on the workload you are running not just the frequency you run it at and I doubt that the TDP you quote is optimised for average instruction complexity At such an underclocked rate, but if that makes you think about it being a 9 TFLOPS system that occasionally gets overclocked (and downclocks the CPU from the capped max of 3.5 GHz to 2.0 GHz just to let the GPU hit 2.23 GHz... well not sure I would agree, you are being unnecessarily over pessimistic if that was not just meant as a high level simplified example).

 

[PropellerEar]

Well, if you aready have 12 you don't need to point at numbers like let's say 10.28

Edgy
My point was about use of "deficit", not using official numbers and rounding nilly willy.

 

[oldergamer]

First time I see them saying more than 12TF in their official material.
Rules for rounding up for are not hard either.

they have stated it before. I think you are over analyzing.

 

[Journey]

wow looks pretty good considering its almost 18 years old?

Xbox Series X will add HDR