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[TTP]

With them using the trial-and-unlock system I'm not so sure that they will be available to non-subscribers, but we will see soon enough.

Why not? The file is already there.

PSN members have to pay to download the whole thing. Just like you would do for, say, Burnout Paradise.
PSN+ members can download it for free and play it for 1 hr before been asked to purchase it.

 

[I3rand0]

Yeah. So stupid you can't do that remotely but rather have to call customer service.

I assume developers (which are already not very pleased by the game sharing stuff) wouldn't like it if Sony made it easier to de-activate systems.

On the other side, I can see Sony being worried about the risks of remote de-activation.

Imagine you give you account details to 4 people. Then one of them remotely deactivates your system and soon after gives your account details to another (5th) guy. The moment this guys activates his system, you'd be fucked for good.

CS can only deactivate movie accounts, not game accounts. I got burned on this when my 60 GB YLOD earlier this year. I don't game share, but it sucks I have a broken console still tied to my PSN name that can never be removed apparently.

 

[TTP]

CS can only deactivate movie accounts, not game accounts. I got burned on this when my 60 GB YLOD earlier this year. I don't game share, but it sucks I have a broken console still tied to my PSN name that can never be removed apparently.

Not true. They can deactivate games account as well. At least in Europe.

Of course it depends on how clueless the CS guy you are talking to is. Which is the reason I hate CS in general with passion.

You might want to give it a tray again. You might be lucky this time.

 

[Withnail]

Why not? The file is already there.

PSN members have to pay to download the whole thing. Just like you would do for, say, Burnout Paradise.
PSN+ members can download it for free and play it for 1 hr before been asked to purchase it.

Because that would mean two different versions of the game on the store, the trial-and-unlock version and the regular version, which means two submissions to certification and everything that goes with it. It's the same reason pubs don't usually put updated versions of their PSN games on the store when patches are released. Anyway, like I said we will find out very soon.

 

[jizzlobber]

has probably been said, but if sony want this to work they need to remove online play for non subscribers... but doing that would start a riot.

they did the right thing by us by making PSN a free service, but it was a mistake, they had to charge from day1

 

[SolidSnakex]

has probably been said, but if sony want this to work they need to remove online play for non subscribers... but doing that would start a riot.

they did the right thing by us by making PSN a free service, but it was a mistake, they had to charge from day1

I disagree. If they can make the incentives good enough (free games, really high quality beta's ect) then they can swing people on it. Removing free online play would be flat out disastrous for them.

 

[Bojanglez]

has probably been said, but if sony want this to work they need to remove online play for non subscribers... but doing that would start a riot.

they did the right thing by us by making PSN a free service, but it was a mistake, they had to charge from day1

I don't agree with that, I think it can work if they keep adding services and value to PSN+. I think what they have shown so far is probably not enough for most people, but if they add stuff like free music streaming service, cloud save game storage etc they would have a service many would pay for.

Free online gaming is a massive selling point for PS3, it would have been foolish to charge, especially when most consider LIVE to be a better service.

 

[jetsetfluken]

Edit: yeah we def need a remote deactivate function, it's high time, or atleast + subscribers should get the system limit raised.

Yep. The whole philosophy of calling it "Plus" should insinuate that you are getting an expanded feature-set, not just discounts and rentals.
Remote deactivation, Sony. We need it. This whole "gamesharing" thing has caused grief for many.

Yeah. So stupid you can't do that remotely but rather have to call customer service.

I assume developers (which are already not very pleased by the game sharing stuff) wouldn't like it if Sony made it easier to de-activate systems.

On the other side, I can see Sony being worried about the risks of remote de-activation.

Imagine you give you account details to 4 people. Then one of them remotely deactivates your system and soon after gives your account details to another (5th) guy. The moment this guy activates his system, you'd be fucked for good.

From what I've heard, it's a customer-to-customer basis that you'll actually get them (SCEA or SCEE) to either free up your slots or add 5 more slots. People who have actually persuaded and bitched at them enough over the phone to do this are not sure which of those two effects actually took place.

Why wouldn't devs like it if people could deactivate? It'd give more control over things besides password changing - there are many people getting free rides and games out of people who shared with them previously. The whole system is corrupt, really, and the ones who defend it are the ones getting things all for free. From my experience I've garnered up to equate it to almost piracy, and not only that, it causes disputes and issues and even puts a "bounty" on accounts and turns it into a prey/predator system; a target for people looking to get games for free off of them.

Sony shouldn't be worried, because your assumed master account only you should have access to. You have access, and upon agreement to the Plus ToS, you have the right to remote deactivate YOUR account on other consoles that you don't desire a share slot to be wasted on.

CS can only deactivate movie accounts, not game accounts. I got burned on this when my 60 GB YLOD earlier this year. I don't game share, but it sucks I have a broken console still tied to my PSN name that can never be removed apparently.

I sure hope this isn't the case, at least for NA. Anyone can confirm if CS can indeed deactivate PS Store (game) activations?

 

[Withnail]

It would be better if every game on the store was available for free to subscribers, with the proviso that if you stop paying you lose access to the stuff you've downloaded. Like a Spotify-style subscription model for gaming. I think a lot of people would go for that. Just offering four games each month, two of them minis and some PS1 trash, does not seem particularly attractive to me.

 

[SolidSnakex]

It would be better if every game on the store was available for free to subscribers, with the proviso that if you stop paying you lose access to the stuff you've downloaded. Like a Spotify-style subscription model for gaming. I think a lot of people would go for that. Just offering four games each month, two of them minis and some PS1 trash, does not seem particularly attractive to me.

A lot of gamers would go for it. Publishers would then tell Sony that they can go screw themselves when it comes to PSN games.

 

[Withnail]

A lot of gamers would go for it. Publishers would then tell Sony that they can go screw themselves when it comes to PSN games.

Well publishers would obviously get a cut of the subscription fee depending on what was downloaded. It's a model that works for Spotify who have pretty good publisher support, though admittedly the music market is very different.

 

[Metalmurphy]

has probably been said, but if sony want this to work they need to remove online play for non subscribers... but doing that would start a riot.

they did the right thing by us by making PSN a free service, but it was a mistake, they had to charge from day1

Don't give them any fucking ideas. The day that happens is the day I sell my PS3 and all my game collection.

 

[SolidusDave]

With them using the trial-and-unlock system I'm not so sure that they will be available to non-subscribers, but we will see soon enough.

the stuff I mentioned was a recap of some of the answers from the eu ps blog, so they are confirmed to be available for non-subscribers, would be kinda stupid of them if not.

we will select the best blu-ray and PSN titles for the full game trial and there will be 2 different titles each month.

you will be able to buy the trial titles from the Store but only Plus members will be able to get the full game trial before purchasing

 

[AndyD]

Well publishers would obviously get a cut of the subscription fee depending on what was downloaded. It's a model that works for Spotify who have pretty good publisher support, though admittedly the music market is very different.

Right. But the fee would have to be much higher than 50 per year in order for all devs to get a significant cut. Most people spend double that on PSN every year I would guess.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Right. But the fee would have to be much higher than 50 per year in order for all devs to get a significant cut. Most people spend double that on PSN every year I would guess.

Exactly. I think the selling point for this will be major betas. Doing betas for games like GT5, Twisted Metal, Starhawk ect. If the only way you're able to get into betas for those games is through PSN+ then that'll sway a lot of people I think. Of course the random free game, PSN title mini ect won't hurt either.

 

[Withnail]

the stuff I mentioned was a recap of some of the answers from the eu ps blog, so they are confirmed to be available for non-subscribers, would be kinda stupid of them if not.

So I guess non-subscribers download both the trial and the unlock together in a bundle, subscribers get to download the trial by itself for free. That makes sense.

That also greatly reduces the chances of me subscribing though. :lol

Right. But the fee would have to be much higher than 50 per year in order for all devs to get a significant cut. Most people spend double that on PSN every year I would guess.

It probably would be significantly more but that wouldn't necessarily make it a bad deal for unlimited game downloads. Not all pubs get a share of each subscription of course, it would be done on a royalty basis. But yeah, not sure if the conditions in the gaming industry are currently right for that kind of model.

 

[AndyD]

So I guess non-subscribers download both the trial and the unlock together in a bundle, subscribers get to download the trial by itself for free. That makes sense.

That also greatly reduces the chances of me subscribing though. :lol




It probably would be significantly more but that wouldn't necessarily make it a bad deal for unlimited game downloads. Not all pubs get a share of each subscription of course, it would be done on a royalty basis. But yeah, not sure if the conditions in the gaming industry are currently right for that kind of model.

I could see it as a separate service, but not part of PSN+. Their goal is to get as many people on PSN+ as possible and raising the price is not the way to do it.

 

[darkwing]

woot! free Qore sub with PSN+

 

[badcrumble]

I wonder when we'll hear about what else is coming with firmware 3.40. Should be soon since the firmware itself is arriving on Tuesday the 22nd (and since it's launched from Japan, that really means that it'll arrive on Monday night most likely).

 

[KittyKittyBangBang]

I like this business model that Sony is putting forth.

I in no way want to pay for this service, so they give me the option while making the essential online components free.

 

[TTP]

Because that would mean two different versions of the game on the store, the trial-and-unlock version and the regular version, which means two submissions to certification and everything that goes with it. It's the same reason pubs don't usually put updated versions of their PSN games on the store when patches are released. Anyway, like I said we will find out very soon.

I'm pretty sure the trial thing will be addresses on an OS-level. By your assumption, even each PSN title would need to be submitted in two versions.

The whole point of this feature is to free developers from the need to actually create/submit a demo version.

 

[TTP]

Sony shouldn't be worried, because your assumed master account only you should have access to. You have access, and upon agreement to the Plus ToS, you have the right to remote deactivate YOUR account on other consoles that you don't desire a share slot to be wasted on

Hmm... pretty sure if you go PSN+ all shared accounts will update to PSN+ status on other systems as well. So there is no real "master" account here. Every shared account user has the same rights/access to content and functions. Everyone would be able to de-activate remotely. Unless PSN+ accounts are linked to MAC address and can't be shared.

 

[Withnail]

I'm pretty sure the trial thing will be addresses on an OS-level. By your assumption, even each PSN title would need to be submitted in two versions.

The whole point of this feature is to free developers from the need to actually create/submit a demo version.

The mechanics of the trial are definitely addressed at an OS level, it's been used on loads of games already, but the system knows whether a game is time-limited by the DRM applied to it. PSN+ is a different situation because the trial is only available to subscribers, so my uncertainty was related to how non-subscribers get the game without there being a separate version with no trial-and-unlock DRM applied to it.

As I posted above though, a solution is to bundle both the trial version and the unlock key into a single purchase for non-subscribers. So I think non-subscribers will get to download the trial after they've just bought the game. Bundles like that wouldn't need to go through cert (it's basically just a store offer) and so it avoids the need to upload two versions. I'm pretty sure this is how they will do it.

 

[MrPliskin]

wtf....so if I just recently subscribed to Qore, I assume that meas I got "played" lol. FML.

 

[jetsetfluken]

Hmm... pretty sure if you go PSN+ all shared accounts will update to PSN+ status on other systems as well. So there is no real "master" account here. Every shared account user has the same rights/access to content and functions. Everyone would be able to de-activate remotely. Unless PSN+ accounts are linked to MAC address and can't be shared.

Yes, in essence all consoles that have that account on them would be able to hypothetically deactivate. However, most people change their passwords after trading, and only the "real" owner has access rights. Thus, the "master" of the account.

But yes, technically, there is no "master account" type on PSN as far as I know.

All I know is someone at Sony better be reading this being requested all over the place, and incorporate remote deactivation at Plus' launch or shortly after. You can bitch at CS to do it, why not give the feature to "VIP" users as well. It's only like, their account.

Also, bolded something I hope is incorporated. Gamesharing is about to get a tad more out of control if Plus account features are sharable. I can see it now..."ANY1 WANT 2 PITCH IN 2 GET PLUS ON DIS ACCOUNT? I SHARE W/ 4 STRANGERS! COME ON SOMEBODY, ANYBODY!"

 

[ilbambino]

You can create an account stating that you live in a SA country, but you won't be able to access PS Store. That's a load of crap. Oh! And since you wont be able to access PS Store from a South American account you wont be able to pay for PSN+.

Microsoft is going to offer full Xbox live for some SA countries later this year (i thought this was already availabe in SA). I would love to be able to buy PSN games with my own credit card (i live in Colombia) and not buying ultra expensive PSN cards sold by resellers here. Sometimes they charge 50% more the value of the card.

I'm too from Colombia, I created an US account some time ago, as a way to access the PSN store, just though things had changed by now, considering past announcements by Sony regarding distriution in SA countries.

Regarding PSN cards, you can solve that by buying those online, and have the code sent to your email. That's what i used to do to avoid overcharges from local sellers.

 

[krae_man]

Hi guys:

http://share.blog.us.playstation.com/ideas/2010/06/18/give-qore-subscribers-a-deal-on-psn/

God I hope this happens

 

[IonicSnake]

In an interview GT did with Peter Dille he said that cross game-chat is not part of PSN+, at least not at this point.

http://www.gametrailers.com/episode/gametrailers-tv/96?ch=2&sd=1_hd

 

[SolidusDave]

In an interview GT did with Peter Dille he said that cross game-chat is not part of PSN+, at least not at this point.

http://www.gametrailers.com/episode/gametrailers-tv/96?ch=2&sd=1_hd

apparently it won't be included in the next firmware update at all:
http://www.thegameraccess.com/news/ps3/ps3-fw-340-will-not-include-cross-game-chat

I don't understand, is this like last summer when they pulled CGC from the 3.00 update in the last minute?

 

[CadetMahoney]

In an interview GT did with Peter Dille he said that cross game-chat is not part of PSN+, at least not at this point.

I'm guessing they're waiting to see how popular it is before implementing it. But without chat I don't see many ppl purchasing it.

 

[graywolf323]

Not true. They can deactivate games account as well. At least in Europe.

Of course it depends on how clueless the CS guy you are talking to is. Which is the reason I hate CS in general with passion.

You might want to give it a try again. You might be lucky this time.

I'm still pissed at Sony's CS because they refuse to deactivate my account on my original PS3 that was stolen

they claim they can only deactivate accounts on consoles sent in for repair (which is BS)

 

[OldJadedGamer]

I disagree. If they can make the incentives good enough (free games, really high quality beta's ect) then they can swing people on it. Removing free online play would be flat out disastrous for them.

I think people would bitch, but they would move on. It would be like the dedicated server thing for MW2 PC. Fact of the matter would be that if they wanted to play online with their friends they would have to pay Sony. They would bitch but what is the alternative? Not saying they would but I don't think the backlash would be as great as people here think it would (outside of GAF).

I fully expect a pay service for PS4 since they will be up to speed on features. It didn't make sense to charge this gen since the feature set wasn't complete online. But now Sony has a full generation to learn and going forward I really doubt the PS4 is free to play online.

 

[Oni Jazar]

apparently it won't be included in the next firmware update at all:
http://www.thegameraccess.com/news/ps3/ps3-fw-340-will-not-include-cross-game-chat

I don't understand, is this like last summer when they pulled CGC from the 3.00 update in the last minute?

Dear God I'm sick of waiting for this crap.

 

[Averon]

Dear God I'm sick of waiting for this crap.

Stop waiting, then. If Sony cannot get cross-game chat for PSN+, which would've been a huge draw for the service, then don't expect it for the rest of this generation. There's probably some issue with PSN, PS3 or both that makes cross-game chat impossible. Sony should just come out and say it, so people would stop asking or holding out hope for it.

 

[androvsky]

Stop waiting, then. If Sony cannot get cross-game chat for PSN+, which would've been a huge draw for the service, then don't expect it for the rest of this generation. There's probably some issue with PSN, PS3 or both that makes cross-game chat impossible. Sony should just come out and say it, so people would stop asking or holding out hope for it.

A bunch of people have said cross-game chat's been working on debug systems for nearly a year now. Sony just can't make up their mind on how they're going to release/monetize it.

If releasing cross-game chat was the same as choosing between Chinese food or Italian food for lunch, Sony would be found starved to death in the lobby of a Taco Bell. Clutching a $100 bill.

 

[Suikoguy]

I'm guessing they're waiting to see how popular it is before implementing it. But without chat I don't see many ppl purchasing it.

I'd much rather them include that for free in a FW update, then give us further reason to get PSN+.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

A bunch of people have said cross-game chat's been working on debug systems for nearly a year now. Sony just can't make up their mind on how they're going to release/monetize it.

If releasing cross-game chat was the same as choosing between Chinese food or Italian food for lunch, Sony would be found starved to death in the lobby of a Taco Bell. Clutching a $100 bill.

I really, really doubt they weren't able to find the proper implementation model regarding CGC for one year.

 

[Redbeard]

I wonder when we'll hear about what else is coming with firmware 3.40. Should be soon since the firmware itself is arriving on Tuesday the 22nd (and since it's launched from Japan, that really means that it'll arrive on Monday night most likely).

So this is confirmed to be launching next week?

And it has PSN+ features built in?

Very strange way to debut the service @ E3.

This cross-game chat nonsense is so fucking bizarre. It's been working for nearly a year and they won't release? What the fuck is wrong with them

 

[badcrumble]

So this is confirmed to be launching next week?

And it has PSN+ features built in?

Very strange way to debut the service @ E3.

I was wrong, Tuesday the 22nd was mentioned somewhere but it's been clarified that it's the 29th.

 

[totowhoa]

I haven't followed this much. Any word on early DLC for plus members as well or game exclusive things aside from OP? If not, don't care for now.

 

[Mrbob]

has probably been said, but if sony want this to work they need to remove online play for non subscribers... but doing that would start a riot.

they did the right thing by us by making PSN a free service, but it was a mistake, they had to charge from day1

Yeah you are wrong about this. If Sony starts charging for peer to peer gaming on PS3 it will completely destroy the online community.

Playstation Plus does not need to copy Xbox Live Gold. There are people out there who might be interested in a subscription plan that is offered as a service with bonuses involved versus paying a monthly fee to play online.

 

[AwRy108]

I really, really doubt they weren't able to find the proper implementation model regarding CGC for one year.

I agree with this. My guess is they're going to keep stringing people along about this feature until it's time for PS4. Either that, or it's simply too late--and too complicated--to add this feature to the PS3 without it causing a host of other issues with older software.

In any event, I hope I'm wrong; but I'm sure as sh*t not holding my breath.

 

[TGateKeeper]

CS can only deactivate movie accounts, not game accounts. I got burned on this when my 60 GB YLOD earlier this year. I don't game share, but it sucks I have a broken console still tied to my PSN name that can never be removed apparently.

then can deactivate it. my 60gb ylod and i called cs after i bought my 80gb and they did it for me.

 

[entremet]

No cloud saves, right? I would pay for that alone, since I lost tons of saved data for retail and PSN games, including all my PS2 saves due to YLOD.

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

Yeah you are wrong about this. If Sony starts charging for peer to peer gaming on PS3 it will completely destroy the online community.

You guys are completely misunderstanding his post. He's not saying they should start charging for online play. He says it would be a disaster. What he's saying is that if they wanted this to have a large subscriber base they would have had to include online play in the "pay" tier from the first day PSN went live, NOT now. The genie's out of the bottle, so to speak.

Almost everyone replying to him has reacted as though he was suggesting they go pay NOW. Knee-jerk FTL.

 

[SolidusDave]

I agree with this. My guess is they're going to keep stringing people along about this feature until it's time for PS4. Either that, or it's simply too late--and too complicated--to add this feature to the PS3 without it causing a host of other issues with older software.

I doubt this is the case as people reported it working in debug units and Sony itself listing in the PSN+ features this very week before it was pulled.

for me, it kinda sums up like this:

- spring/summer 2009 (even before that?): CGC is ready, integrated in debug units firmware (confirmed)
- plan to release CGC with the Slim release&firmware update (3.00) (rumoured/mentioned)
- sometime before GC 2009: for any reason (technical?) they pull CGC
- plan to release it in 3.10 in October 2009 (rumoured)
[note: maybe it was not ready for a public release in 3.00 and was always planned for 3.10]
- they skipped that to make it a PSN+ feature in 2010 (to start/maintain a chat even with non PSN+ members)
- PSN+ is ready for June 2010 via 3.40, CGC listed as a feature by Sony (confirmed)
- a reason to pull it now may be technical (again?), but I could also imagine they want to keep it to release it either as the planned PSN+ feature (if PSN+ bombs) or as a general firmware feature (if PSN+ doesn't need a boost to convince people) to make everyone happy (I think this because Sony/the blog is only vague about PSN+ questions when it comes to CGC, they don't say yes or no but that they may enhance PSN+ further + that CGC won't be in 3.40)

 

[Crisis]

I honestly can't explain how mad I am about the constant teasing of the cross-game voice chat for PS3 users. Honestly I probably wouldn't even use it all that much but I know a bunch of people who would use it. What they're doing is the exact opposite of what they should be doing. Here is the solution to their "problem" insofar as releasing it. Make it part of the PSN + package. You can always decide to not charge for it later on if that's what customer demand is saying. They'll find it much harder to charge people for something that's free now later on. This is not that difficult of a concept. That they've apparently had it working for a year is not much more than an insult. Ultimately it's their choice to release it or not but making vague generalities like "We've heard the community loud and clear" does not clarify anything. We still don't fucking know when it's coming, if it's coming. We don't know if they're going to charge for it or not. They really need someone to sit down and just be straight with people on it. The incompetence regarding PlayStation Network continues to be astounding.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

PSN+ = Best Online Service Idea Yet For Consoles.


I still don't get why people say LIVE is the best service out there. Since when is paying money to get the same service I get on my PC a deal?

 

[Infinite Justice]

I was wrong, Tuesday the 22nd was mentioned somewhere but it's been clarified that it's the 29th.

Supposedly the 22nd was when the firmware would hit and the service hits on the 29th.

I'm not sure if that's the case anymore.

 

[AndyD]

Supposedly the 22nd was when the firmware would hit and the service hits on the 29th.

I'm not sure if that's the case anymore.

I think that's still the case. The Euro blog at least still has it listed that way. I doubt they would release the firmware and open the membership on the same day. Unless its already in the firmware we have as a hidden feature.