• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Playtonic removes JonTron from Yooka-Laylee.

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Spring-Loaded

Member
Deguello said:
What's really going to eat at Jon in the future, should he be introspective of his own role in this, isn't going to be the criticism he's getting from here or liberals in Twitter or the Mainstream Media boogeyman that's ruining his career. It's not going to be all of his old friends distancing themselves from him. If these are his deepest held beliefs, it's only natural for people to disagree to grow apart. What's going to eat at him is that his childhood heroes, the developers at Rare/Playtonic, Tim Schafer, Nintendo, etc. that made his favorite games, people he got to rub shoulders with and discuss game ideas with, maybe even the possibility to work with them on a game itself, will, most likely, permanently close their doors to him. He had a shot and he blew it.
Click to expand...

BVgyVaV.gif


so good
 
M

Messofanego

Banned
Deguello said:
But really, this was a long time coming to anybody paying attention at Playtonic. Anybody who followed Grant Kirkhope's Twitter knows he's left-leaning. Anti-Trump (had some choice words for him), Anti-Brexit, Pro-free immigration (no shit, considering video games are a global product and Rare in the good ol' days greatly benefitted from being able to hire from anywhere in Europe) I'd imagine most of Playtonic are left-leaning, as artists tend to be. But you really don't have to be some extreme liberal to reject JonTron's view of ethnic superiority.

What's really going to eat at Jon in the future, should he be introspective of his own role in this, isn't going to be the criticism he's getting from here or liberals in Twitter or the Mainstream Media boogeyman that's ruining his career. It's not going to be all of his old friends distancing themselves from him. If these are his deepest held beliefs, it's only natural for people to disagree to grow apart. What's going to eat at him is that his childhood heroes, the developers at Rare/Playtonic, Tim Schafer, Nintendo, etc. that made his favorite games, people he got to rub shoulders with and discuss game ideas with, maybe even the possibility to work with them on a game itself, will, most likely, permanently close their doors to him. He had a shot and he blew it. Oh sure he'll still have his subscribers and his twitter following, and he'll have to spend the rest of his time in the limelight convincing himself that it's better than what he's lost. That the grapes he has are definitely sweeter than the ones he threw into the fire.

...

And that's not going to be the same as working on a spiritual sequel to one of his favorite games from his childhood, is it? And considering one of Grant Kirkhope's latest tweets is laughing at somebody mocking the idea of Jon's newer fans "boycotting" the game, it's gotta feel pretty empty what he traded a future with his heroes for..
Click to expand...

I think this is what schadenfreude is XD
 
P

PtM

Banned
Chao said:
Gotta keep in mind that neogaf is not representative of the general gaming population.

It's cool they removed Jon if they believe is the right thing to do, but nobody outside of the gaming enthusiasts and backers will probably know anything about this controversy ever.
Click to expand...
I blindly assumed the press had picked up PT's move. I believe MCV did, but then they're British.
 
E

EatinOlives

Member
Chao said:
Gotta keep in mind that neogaf is not representative of the general gaming population.

It's cool they removed Jon if they believe is the right thing to do, but nobody outside of the gaming enthusiasts and backers will probably know anything about this controversy ever.

They could have left him there and it wouldn't really matter that much. For every three pissed off gaffers saying "I'm not buying the game of Jon is in it" they will probably still get hundreds of sales.

I don't think including a cameo of a personality which turns out to be an asshole one month before the release of the game should affect the game negatively in any way, and gamers shouldn't boycott it because of this. It's not their fault.
Click to expand...

Playtonic simply didn't want him in their game. Neither GAF nor pretty much anyone else raised a stink about it, there was no "crusade" against the game prior to Jon's removal. That little detail was popularized by just alt-right fuckwad propaganda.
 
S

Skyzard

Banned
Gestault said:
That...looks an awful lot like a more general attempt to push your unrelated views instead of actually talking about the thread topic.
Click to expand...

Did you even watch the video?

He talks about how people don't even want to look at the statistics themselves or get rid of variables when they do. Most people saying "but jontron has facts" didn't even look at his link.
 
G

Gestault

Member
Skyzard said:
Did you even watch the video?

He talks about how people don't even want to look at the statistics themselves or get rid of variables when they do. Most people saying "but jontron has facts" didn't even look at his link.
Click to expand...

I watched the first section of both, and didn't see where you were going with them. I'm also familiar with Thomas Sowell, which is why without you being more specific about what you were saying, I get the impression this was off topic.

I'll spell it out better for you thought: Sowell's work tends to be piggybacked by people criticizing things like multiculturalism, politicall correctness, and affirmative action.
 
DonMigs85

DonMigs85

Member
I just find it sad that the game became notorious in the gaming press for this incident instead of being recognized for its own merits. And that there are so many idiot backers demanding refunds when JontTron was never part of the original pitch.
 
KaoteK

KaoteK

Member
So I started to watch Sid Alpha's video on this last night...

... And had to stop about 5 minutes in, because he was using a lot of language that amounted to giving Jontron a pass. He was also saying whilst "technically" not censorship, it still is, and that Playtonic deserve to loose sales. Utter bullshit, another dude on YouTube to avoid.
 
S

Skyzard

Banned
Gestault said:
I watched the first section of both, and didn't see where you were going with them. I'm also familiar with Thomas Sowell, which is why without you being more specific about what you were saying, I get the impression this was off topic.

I'll spell it out better for you thought: Sowell's work tends to be piggybacked by people criticizing things like multiculturalism, politicall correctness, and affirmative action.
Click to expand...

Well that explains why it was probably linked, shame they didn't even watch it properly.

Pretty ironic.
 
I

Isaac Otherworld

Member
Deguello said:
It's been a while since I've posted on GAF, mainly due to life circumstances and such.
The last thing I posted about was.. what, one of Anita Sarkessian's videos? Man it feels like such a long time ago.

The wonderful thing about free speech is that it's a great tool for identifying people you'd rather not associate with.

JonTron used his free speech to give everybody his opinion on who should enter the American gene pool, and whether Mexicans are trying to take over California, one taco truck at a time, to reclaim the Atzlan, because that's rational.

People who heard it used their free speech to say he's woefully ignorant, a racist, and a possible eugenicist.

The makers of the game he was involved in used their free speech and freedom of association to NOT associate with JonTron.

Freedom at work!

But really, this was a long time coming to anybody paying attention at Playtonic. Anybody who followed Grant Kirkhope's Twitter knows he's left-leaning. Anti-Trump (had some choice words for him), Anti-Brexit, Pro-free immigration (no shit, considering video games are a global product and Rare in the good ol' days greatly benefitted from being able to hire from anywhere in Europe) I'd imagine most of Playtonic are left-leaning, as artists tend to be. But you really don't have to be some extreme liberal to reject JonTron's view of ethnic superiority.

What's really going to eat at Jon in the future, should he be introspective of his own role in this, isn't going to be the criticism he's getting from here or liberals in Twitter or the Mainstream Media boogeyman that's ruining his career. It's not going to be all of his old friends distancing themselves from him. If these are his deepest held beliefs, it's only natural for people to disagree to grow apart. What's going to eat at him is that his childhood heroes, the developers at Rare/Playtonic, Tim Schafer, Nintendo, etc. that made his favorite games, people he got to rub shoulders with and discuss game ideas with, maybe even the possibility to work with them on a game itself, will, most likely, permanently close their doors to him. He had a shot and he blew it. Oh sure he'll still have his subscribers and his twitter following, and he'll have to spend the rest of his time in the limelight convincing himself that it's better than what he's lost. That the grapes he has are definitely sweeter than the ones he threw into the fire.

GAF and the media are blamed for this simply because they don't want to accept that Playtonic did it on their own, because they disagree that immigrants dilute gene pools, that blacks are inherently criminal, and were horrified at those comments enough to distance themselves from him before letting a game aimed somewhere around the child-teen area get released. It must be those SJWs, right? And the Frankfurt School teaming up with the Illuminati! They poisoned his heroes against him, using free speech no less!

His time in the game industry isn't completely over, I'm sure. He might get some VA work for one of the developers more friendly to his politics and his views on ethnic purity. But it will be just that. Political. A dev using him to gain access to his fans. And that's not going to be the same as working on a spiritual sequel to one of his favorite games from his childhood, is it? And considering one of Grant Kirkhope's latest tweets is laughing at somebody mocking the idea of Jon's newer fans "boycotting" the game, it's gotta feel pretty empty what he traded a future with his heroes for.

Strangely enough, I don’t think he’s beyond all hope. Even George Wallace repented for his decades of racism. But what’s going to make that outcome take longer, if at all, is his demeanor during that stream. This wasn’t him being angry at some dude cutting him off in traffic and letting an epithet slip out. That can be all of us, and it’s easy to let learned inhibitions slide in anger. No, Jon delivered his comment with clear eyes and calm voice, with the timbre and pace of studied repetition. That will take some hard thought or some extreme life event to undo, and I don’t think Boogie, who styles himself the Troubled Youtube Star whisperer, can undo it with platitudes.
Click to expand...

This is an absolutely top tier post.

Weltall Zero said:
So basically another way of saying SJW. Now I understand the advice about automatically ignoring people using it unironically.
Click to expand...

Incidentally, has anyone noticed more and more alt-right youtubers are pronuncing "sjw" as "S. jew"?
 
C

Complex Shadow

Cudi Lame™
Skyzard said:
Surprisingly, a thread of mine on the steam discussion page was bumped with this link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxygmc_SMAU

Which was a pretty great watch and a lot of it applies now.

This is also a decent watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rJ4KVVfIaE




They did:
Click to expand...
i just noped out of that first link in 3 minutes in. dude just says "because of number from around the world where you don't find equal representation. you are just not gonna ever have it" thats just false equivalency (or i believe it is, i may be using that wrong.) and thats from 40 years ago. just because there isn't equal representation anywhere doesn't mean its justification for partial representation. i can't believe we haven't changed in 40 fucking years.
 
S

Skyzard

Banned
Complex Shadow said:
i just noped out of that first link in 3 minutes in. dude just says "because of number from around the world where you don't find equal representation. you are just not gonna ever have it" thats just false equivalency (or i believe it is, i may be using that wrong.) and thats from 40 years ago. just because there isn't equal representation anywhere doesn't mean its justification for partial representation. i can't believe we haven't changed in 40 fucking years.
Click to expand...

It's not justification though, it just suggests that there are many factors at play when trying to draw conclusions from statistics with variables unaccounted for.
 
S

Sponge

Banned
Laevateinn said:
Mostly just because it's taken too long. I've lost a lot of interest. Hopefully it's good and I change my mind but at this point I don't really care if it never comes out.
Click to expand...

That's fair. Speaking as someone who was following Rare after their buyout and hoping for a new game only to be disappointed year after year, I'm just thankful this game even exists. I gave up hope years ago that we would ever see Banjo return. So to see Playtonic come together and Yooka-Laylee really made me happy.
 
T

thumb

Banned
Skyzard said:
It's not justification though, it just suggests that there are many factors at play when trying to draw conclusions from statistics with variables unaccounted for.
Click to expand...

If you have specific point to make about that video that is relevant to this thread other than "people don't look at statistics when they should", you should make it. Don't beat around the bush.
 
P

Poltergust

Member
Laevateinn said:
Mostly just because it's taken too long. I've lost a lot of interest. Hopefully it's good and I change my mind but at this point I don't really care if it never comes out.
Click to expand...

I'm fine with the devs spending the time they need to polish up the game. It'd be great to have both Yooka-Laylee and A Hat in Time be fantastic games so that the 3D collectathon platformer genre can have a proper revival.
 
S

Skyzard

Banned
thumb said:
If you have specific point to make about that video that is relevant to this thread other than "people don't look at statistics when they should", you should make it. Don't beat around the bush.
Click to expand...

I don't know what you're on about.

The video directly shows that people don't look at statistics and when they do they generally don't take variables into account when trying to push an agenda. Completely mirroring what's happening with jon's fans.

As I already stated.

I'm not sure why you're presuming something sinister.
 
T

thumb

Banned
Skyzard said:
I don't know what you're on about.

The video directly shows that people don't look at statistics and when they do they generally don't take variables into account when trying to push an agenda. Completely mirroring what's happening with jon's fans.

As I already stated.

I'm not sure why you're presuming something sinister.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why you're presuming something sinister about what I'm presuming. You're restating the phenomenon of confirmation bias. Okay, I agree. That phenomenon exists. It is relevant to almost everyone. It is relevant to this thread, and this issue, and pretty much all other issues.
 
C

Complex Shadow

Cudi Lame™
Skyzard said:
It's not justification though, it just suggests that there are many factors at play when trying to draw conclusions from statistics with variables unaccounted for.
Click to expand...
I haven't seen the full thing so I am not gonna comment much. But he doesn't even go further to try justify his stance. If only 1% of ANY race is voting then​ that's a real concern not a "level of envolment." He doesn't even mention factors like laws and financial standings. Again I could be wrong because i haven't seen any further than 3-4 minutes. But equal representation is what should be what we should all striving for, it's not the end all be all. It's a impossibly hard standard we should be setting for ourselves.
 
S

Skyzard

Banned
Complex Shadow said:
I haven't seen the full thing so I am not gonna comment much. But he doesn't even go further to try justify his stance. If only 1% of ANY race is voting then​ that's a real concern not a "level of envolment." He doesn't even mention factors like laws and financial standings. Again I could be wrong because i haven't seen any further than 3-4 minutes. But equal representation is what should be what we should all striving for, it's not the end all be all. It's a impossibly hard standard we should be setting for ourselves.
Click to expand...

And there would be many ways to go about doing so - is the inference I would make from what he's saying.
Not that it shouldn't happen.

thumb said:
I'm not sure why you're presuming something sinister about what I'm presuming. You're restating the phenomenon of confirmation bias. Okay, I agree. That phenomenon exists. It is relevant to almost everyone. It is relevant to this thread, and this issue, and pretty much all other issues.
Click to expand...

You seemed on edge. I'm not sure if it has something to do with Thomas Sowell, this is the first I've heard of him.

Not everyone is self-aware of how it manifests in this example.
 
A

akira28

Member
If anything, this will be a cautionary tale for people who include celebrities in the future.

even if you like them. if they're bad for business, they're bad for business. I like people who have a self-preservation instinct. Wild cards can be interesting, but they also lose money.
 
T

thumb

Banned
Skyzard said:
You seemed on edge. I'm not sure if it has something to do with Thomas Sowell, this is the first I've heard of him.

Not everyone is self-aware of how it manifests in this example.
Click to expand...

I should have been less curt, but it just didn't seem like you were articulating everything you intended to communicate. Why did I think this? Well, the videos you linked discussed all manner of topics around race and representation and gender and so forth, but for whatever reason you pulled out a very simple point about confirmation bias. Which is an odd take-home from the set of highly specific arguments made by Sowell.
 
F

foxuzamaki

Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Deguello said:
It's been a while since I've posted on GAF, mainly due to life circumstances and such.
The last thing I posted about was.. what, one of Anita Sarkessian's videos? Man it feels like such a long time ago.

The wonderful thing about free speech is that it's a great tool for identifying people you'd rather not associate with.

JonTron used his free speech to give everybody his opinion on who should enter the American gene pool, and whether Mexicans are trying to take over California, one taco truck at a time, to reclaim the Atzlan, because that's rational.

People who heard it used their free speech to say he's woefully ignorant, a racist, and a possible eugenicist.

The makers of the game he was involved in used their free speech and freedom of association to NOT associate with JonTron.

Freedom at work!

But really, this was a long time coming to anybody paying attention at Playtonic. Anybody who followed Grant Kirkhope's Twitter knows he's left-leaning. Anti-Trump (had some choice words for him), Anti-Brexit, Pro-free immigration (no shit, considering video games are a global product and Rare in the good ol' days greatly benefitted from being able to hire from anywhere in Europe) I'd imagine most of Playtonic are left-leaning, as artists tend to be. But you really don't have to be some extreme liberal to reject JonTron's view of ethnic superiority.

What's really going to eat at Jon in the future, should he be introspective of his own role in this, isn't going to be the criticism he's getting from here or liberals in Twitter or the Mainstream Media boogeyman that's ruining his career. It's not going to be all of his old friends distancing themselves from him. If these are his deepest held beliefs, it's only natural for people to disagree to grow apart. What's going to eat at him is that his childhood heroes, the developers at Rare/Playtonic, Tim Schafer, Nintendo, etc. that made his favorite games, people he got to rub shoulders with and discuss game ideas with, maybe even the possibility to work with them on a game itself, will, most likely, permanently close their doors to him. He had a shot and he blew it. Oh sure he'll still have his subscribers and his twitter following, and he'll have to spend the rest of his time in the limelight convincing himself that it's better than what he's lost. That the grapes he has are definitely sweeter than the ones he threw into the fire.

GAF and the media are blamed for this simply because they don't want to accept that Playtonic did it on their own, because they disagree that immigrants dilute gene pools, that blacks are inherently criminal, and were horrified at those comments enough to distance themselves from him before letting a game aimed somewhere around the child-teen area get released. It must be those SJWs, right? And the Frankfurt School teaming up with the Illuminati! They poisoned his heroes against him, using free speech no less!

His time in the game industry isn't completely over, I'm sure. He might get some VA work for one of the developers more friendly to his politics and his views on ethnic purity. But it will be just that. Political. A dev using him to gain access to his fans. And that's not going to be the same as working on a spiritual sequel to one of his favorite games from his childhood, is it? And considering one of Grant Kirkhope's latest tweets is laughing at somebody mocking the idea of Jon's newer fans "boycotting" the game, it's gotta feel pretty empty what he traded a future with his heroes for.

Strangely enough, I don’t think he’s beyond all hope. Even George Wallace repented for his decades of racism. But what’s going to make that outcome take longer, if at all, is his demeanor during that stream. This wasn’t him being angry at some dude cutting him off in traffic and letting an epithet slip out. That can be all of us, and it’s easy to let learned inhibitions slide in anger. No, Jon delivered his comment with clear eyes and calm voice, with the timbre and pace of studied repetition. That will take some hard thought or some extreme life event to undo, and I don’t think Boogie, who styles himself the Troubled Youtube Star whisperer, can undo it with platitudes.
Click to expand...
So this is justice, feels right
 
S

Skyzard

Banned
thumb said:
I should have been less curt, but it just didn't seem like you were articulating everything you intended to communicate. Why did I think this? Well, the videos you linked discussed all manner of topics around race and representation and gender and so forth, but for whatever reason you pulled out a very simple point about confirmation bias. Which is an odd take-home from the set of highly specific arguments made by Sowell.
Click to expand...

It was present throughout the whole video.
 
E

EatinOlives

Member
akira28 said:
If anything, this will be a cautionary tale for people who include celebrities in the future.

even if you like them. if they're bad for business, they're bad for business. I like people who have a self-preservation instinct. Wild cards can be interesting, but they also lose money.
Click to expand...

Yeah they're definitely going to think twice about including """influencers""" in their work from now on.
 
S

sn00zer

Member
Outside of DLC are major main game updates now finished? Or is there more in the future still?
Edit: this is not the ffxv thread is it?
 
T

Tasha2k2

Neo Member
Would you need a good computer to play the game when it comes out I had a look at some videos of it and it maybe looks kinda fun but idk if this laptop would be good enough? All I have right now is a 3ds but I'm saving up money to get a switch
 
A

AYF 001

Member
Tasha2k2 said:
Would you need a good computer to play the game when it comes out I had a look at some videos of it and it maybe looks kinda fun but idk if this laptop would be good enough? All I have right now is a 3ds but I'm saving up money to get a switch
Click to expand...
Here's a site that can tell if your computer can run a game:

https://www.systemrequirementslab.com/cyri/requirements/yooka-laylee/13505

You can run the program that'll detect what your system specs are if you're not sure what they are.
 
C

CannonFodder52

Member
AlexFlame116 said:
That's...unbelievably pathetic if they were serious. My opinion.
Click to expand...

Someone made this demand on the steam forums an hour ago.

"I will buy one copy if they bring JonTron back. Two if the community manager is fired. Three if he resigns."

That's it. I'll stop citing the lowest hanging fruit, not really much to gain from it.


Good news though. I think a lot of the mass hate and brigading has cooled down a bit.
 
J

Jamesac68

Banned
JonTron is an irrelevancy. He's not important, not interesting, and his involvement in Yooka-Laylee didn't add or subtract anything to the game.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Tencent has acquired a minority stake in Yooka-Laylee studio Playtonic
Opinion Business Game Dev
3
756
Ozzie666 replied
The Original Switch Reveal Trailer Has Been Removed From Nintendo's YouTube Channel
Rumor Community Platform
14
1K
mitch1971 replied
Sega sells Relic and will cut 240 jobs across UK studios | Creative Assembly, Sega HARDlight and Sega Europe will be impacted by the changes
News
40
2K
Angry_Megalodon replied
Starting December 8 2023, Battlefield 1943 and Battlefield: Bad Company 1 & 2 will be removed from digital storefronts
News 2
62
4K
DeepEnigma replied
Nexus Mods removes anti-gay Baldur's Gate 3 mod (Update: Nexus are too far lost in their sauce)
Community 2 3 4
193
16K
Guilty_AI replied
Top Bottom