To me that just means ORAS is adding more than any other remake/3rd version and I see that as a good thing since I'm planning on picking the game up and moving everything over like usual.
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Pokémon X and Y will not receive a patch for compatibility with ORAS's new Megas
- Thread starter Exterminieren
- Start date
To me that just means ORAS is adding more than any other remake/3rd version and I see that as a good thing since I'm planning on picking the game up and moving everything over like usual.
Yaphett Kotto
Member
But you still are talking about a game from last year that is going to correlate with an upcoming one. Why would you not patch the last game if both are going to have players trading or battling?
Alright, I'm not too well versed in gens 2-3 so I'm not entirely sure of anything I say about them from this point on. Just getting that across.
Anyway, weren't you still able to communicate/battle etc with newer formes/Pokemon from later games within the same gen back then? It's sounding like you flat out can't do that this time round. And hell, even if you can: it's 2014. Back then they just didn't have the means to make older games compatible with new additions added from within the same gen. Now they do, they just won't. There's really no excuse not to patch it, other than "Screw you, give us money." which isn't consumer friendly at all.
Leafhopper
Banned
You know as well as I, that won't happen. The only way it could sell that low is if it got cancelled or delayed for every territory outside of Japan, and then became a New 3DS exclusive.
They don't want you using the new content in the old games. If its like the other generations battles should still be possible.
Back then the older games could battle against the new formes but not use them. I expect things to be the same this time around until I'm shown otherwise.
They're in the same generation, though. You can trade Pokemon between the two. You can battle between the two. There is direct synergy.
So it's not quite the same situation as any other game franchise getting an iterative sequel. Gamefreak designs these games to be cross compatible.
Yaphett Kotto
Member
I don't think you could, but there weren't any patches in pre-DSi times, so they couldn't do much about it.
Now they can do something about it, but they won't. It isn't like BW to BW2 case where you are only missing out on a couple forms and moves, you're missing out on a good number of Mega Pokemon.
Okay, so? Its not like they will take a huge hit from sales if you are able to trade things into XY. Why even let the game be compatible with ORAS if you cannot battle ORAS players' specific Pokes? Its anti-consumer as fuck.
Leafhopper
Banned
It took 18(JP)/16(Worldwide) years to get trainer customization and they took it away. This seemed like something so huge it would stay.
Game Freak's inconsistencies with game design is getting old. 1 step forward 3 steps back off a cliff yet they still manage to continue moving up at the same time while falling off of said cliff.
Barring that gripe its a game where you are supposed to be playing yourself. Having no customization at this point again is silly.
NeonZ
Member
What kills this to me is the combination of lack of connectivity and customization. If this game had no customization, but X/Y had full connectivity, I could play through it to get the single player experience and new Pokemon, but then transfer everything back to my customized X/Y trainer in the end. If this game had customization again, that wouldn't even be necessary and I could keep everything here. However, the lack of compatibility and customization, at the same time, really hurts the entire feature set.
You couldn't, but there were very few new forms added in the middle of each generation. The number of new megas revealed already trumps all those added mid-gen forms in every past game put together.
I think it's a very realistic possibility, and could happen even if Gamefreak had gotten everything right. Remakes have always sold worse than the original games, and Ruby and Sapphire used to be the worst selling mainline Pokemon games. The fact that we're now getting news of them making a bunch of unpopular decisions like limited connectivity and dumping trainer customization really makes me certain that yet again we'll see fairly low numbers overall. Of course, these are relative low numbers. It'll be a million seller, but it'll do significantly worse than both of the previous remakes.
Give me one good reason why a darker skinned person shouldn't be able to make their player avatar that's supposed to represent them self look more like them, especially when the previous game that's just around a year old gave them the option. Why should they be forced to be white?
It's 2014. Any game that's meant to have you as the player impart themselves on to the protagonist and allow you to customise them to some degree have these basic options by now. It's just outdated and there's especially no excuse considering X/Y already offered this. They went out of their way to remove it.
Shit storm.
Winterfang
Banned
Is pretty cool, of course this is a remake that had already established ''characters''. It would be like having a Pokemon remake without Red.
NeonZ
Member
FireRed/GreenLeaf added the option of a female trainer though, and in that case Red didn't exist at all in your playthrough. So, established characters somehow weren't a problem back then.
Leafhopper
Banned
You make a good point. I do forget that remakes sell worse. I thought HGSS did on par or right below D/P/Pt but it probably didn't.
They use the default trainers as established characters anyway. Just like in X and Y. The default male and default female are established characters. (opposite of your sex in game without a hat.)
Ah, okay, well the previous games were like this then. Fine. But...
This is my problem. This isn't a full blown sequel, this isn't a huge update to the game/engine/forumula. This is a stop gap game until the next main game, just like B/W2 were. They have the ability to do stuff they couldn't do back in the GBA/DS times, but they won't, because reasons. And like NeonZ and Yaphett said, there were only a few additions in earlier gens. This time around it's a pretty hefty update.
MrCookiepants
Member
Pokemon has always been forwards compatible, not backwards compatible. New formes and Pokemon have never been obtainable in older games, regardless of whether they were classified as being in the same generation.
Yaphett Kotto
Member
Because of limitations with the hardware, like patching.
Andrefpvs
Member
Here's a post explaining why this might be upsetting for some people (everyone who's saying "buy the new games to get the new stuff, duh, every other franchise is like that", read this):
XY and ORAS are both 6th generation mainline Pokémon games. A new generation begins with a new game that introduces new Pokémon, a new region, changes in gameplay mechanics, etc.
Traditionally, Pokémon players have come to expect near-perfect compatibility between games in the same generation. You are able to trade and battle with no limitations between Ruby and LeafGreen, or Black and White 2, for example. Whenever there were new mid-generation additions to new games, they were handled as such:
Gen IV
Gen V
In games that included hundreds of Pokémon and items, this was a very low number of compatibility "issues" that were always resolved in some (sometimes not very gracious) ways, but the compatibility was near ~100% between same-gen games. And even then, the DS didn't support game patches, so being outraged by the issues listed above would be even sillier.
ORAS are now taking a somewhat new approach of adding a very significant number of items, (Mega) Evolutions, attacks and abilities that just don't exist in XY's data (the latter two are a huge red flag for breaking compatibility). All of this while still being a Gen VI game.
With all these changes, the precedent of near-perfect compatibility between same-gen games, and the 3DS supporting game patches, it's not hard to see why some people are disappointed at the number of new additions they won't be able to share or use against XY players.
XY and ORAS are both 6th generation mainline Pokémon games. A new generation begins with a new game that introduces new Pokémon, a new region, changes in gameplay mechanics, etc.
Traditionally, Pokémon players have come to expect near-perfect compatibility between games in the same generation. You are able to trade and battle with no limitations between Ruby and LeafGreen, or Black and White 2, for example. Whenever there were new mid-generation additions to new games, they were handled as such:
Gen IV
- In Platinum, new forms for Rotom and Giratina were added. These forms were not in Diamond and Pearl (the previous games), so the solution Game Freak found was to revert these Pokémon to their original forms when connecting to previous games.
- In HeartGold and SoulSilver, new Poké Balls were introduced that didn't exist in Diamond/Pearl/Platinum. The solution was to prevent these items from being held by Pokémon, so they couldn't be traded. There was also a special Pichu form that couldn't be with you when connecting to other games.
Gen V
- There were new forms for some Pokémon introduced when going from Black/White to Black 2/White 2. These forms could be used in battle against BW players, who would see them as their normal forms (while they kept all the stats and attacks of the new forms).
In games that included hundreds of Pokémon and items, this was a very low number of compatibility "issues" that were always resolved in some (sometimes not very gracious) ways, but the compatibility was near ~100% between same-gen games. And even then, the DS didn't support game patches, so being outraged by the issues listed above would be even sillier.
ORAS are now taking a somewhat new approach of adding a very significant number of items, (Mega) Evolutions, attacks and abilities that just don't exist in XY's data (the latter two are a huge red flag for breaking compatibility). All of this while still being a Gen VI game.
With all these changes, the precedent of near-perfect compatibility between same-gen games, and the 3DS supporting game patches, it's not hard to see why some people are disappointed at the number of new additions they won't be able to share or use against XY players.
Subtervotion
Member
Typical GF. Add a new feature, and it never returns again. Pokemon follow you, everyone is so happy. Never seen again. Player customization, a lot of happy people. I wouldn't be surprised if it never comes back.
Either way I'll put hundreds of hours into this game is the Battle Frontier is in.
Either way I'll put hundreds of hours into this game is the Battle Frontier is in.
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
Why would you want to play with those people?
Seriously though, people need to understand that precedents don't matter; I get why people are angry, but I hope they try to understand this circumstance.
Yaphett Kotto
Member
Hammer on head of nail. Thanks a bunch for the nice explanation on why this is a problem.
MrCookiepants
Member
Well, now you can see that they wouldn't have done that even if they could.
Bottom line: patching in content from new games to old games is not something Pokemon has ever done, nor is it a common practice in any other game series.
You guys are being 100% unreasonable in your expectations and it's making you all look very childish. Bye now.
ColtraineGF
Member
3 abilities
3 attacks
New Key Items that wouldn't be tradeable in the first place
The amount of "exclusive forms" is the only thing that's significant. The games can still battle and trade with each other.
Chie Satonaka
Member
Because I liked playing dress up with my dark skinned pokemon trainer. It's strange they'd remove one of the best features of the game.
IDKAboutThat
Member
Awwww. They should use their patching capability now that they have it. Well, I guess it doesn't actually matter much at all.
Leafhopper
Banned
It's in the description of this song on youtube. Basically someone on Nico Nico found this song hidden the game files of the demo and going by the file name think it might be the Battle Frontier.
If the game get's no patch, the abilities, the attacks and models of the new forms wouldn't be in the game correct?
You can probably battle but not using any of the new stuff.
Kind loosely related, but I hate how Game Freak needlessly complicated the Mega Evolution process by making a unique stone for each evolution. Just make one key item and be done with it. I don't need to be carrying so many different stones. This goes for things like incenses and the Arceus plates, too.
Yaphett Kotto
Member
Dude, mang, they couldn't before because the DS didn't support patching. The 3DS does, which is why people are upset about this. They can easily patch in moves, abilities, Megas, etc. for XY.
They have the power to do it but they won't because GF.
Go read Andrefpvs post. Explains it perfectly. So perfect, it can be the rebuttal for almost every defense for this dumb move GF is doing.
Nailed it. This is precisely why people are upset. Perfectly explained.
Andrefpvs
Member
3 attacks and 3 abilities is 3 attacks and 3 abilities too many when considering XY compatibility.
Also, I was obviously referring to the Mega Stones, not the Key Items.
I am curious to see how this'll all work in the final game, though.
Thanks, Yuki-chan!
That would actually make things more messy imo.
MarcoZombieCannon
Member
Welp, X/Y 2 would pretty much still be the best if their online still worked.
C.Olimar788
Member
This sort of thing makes me worried for the supposedly-forwards compatible PokeBank. If they're not even bothering to patch in a handful of models and stat listings for some new Megas, are they likely to bother updating PokeBank for Gen VII when it comes with brand new Pokemon? They said they would, but...
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
They'd need to give you Megastones like cheap candies then because swapping items would be Hell. Megas are supposed to be rare too. If items are complicated to you...
I don't see why they would dump it when its an easy tool for them to use for transferring Pokemon over coming up with a completely new method.
I'm not sure either but the link on the op has this:
Plus other poster said you could battle other gens in the ds games but you just could not see the special forms added to old pokemon (you still saw the stat change though)
I really cant undestand why anyone expected them to patch the new forms and megas to the old game, that's like one of the selling points of the new games.
Player customization on the other hand..
MarcoZombieCannon
Member
They didn't even have to be available to use in X/Y, just visible and able to be battled against. I don't see how that's a hard thing to do.
Leafhopper
Banned
That I don't know.
Nah, customization will be in Z. Then it will never appear again.
Also don't expect soaring to be in any other game after ORAS.
Winterfang
Banned
What the fuck, IGN just released a trailer that had a Gamestop offer of Shiny Gengar with Gengarnite and Sludge Wave... for October 13. T_T
ColtraineGF
Member
G3: No Rotom formes or Origin Giratina or Sky Forme Shaymin
G4: No Pokeballs and no Spiky-eared Pichu. No following Pokemon.
G5: No Therian formes, no Black/White Kyurem.
G6: No extra Megas, and the 3 attacks/abilities exclusive to them.
And in the end, you can collect, battle, and trade between the games in the same gen. You are able to battle online with XY and ORAS. "Near ~100% compatibility".
Also, mega stones have no purpose beyond achieving Mega Evolution. Their presence is linked to those Megas showing up, so their existence is within the same sphere and can't be separated. That's what I think.
bluepolicebox
Member
Through the 26th. Then the Diancie promotion starts.
Leafhopper
Banned
And since Dive will never see the light of day outside of Hoenn ever again don't expect to see Underwater Battles except for OR/AS.
This is the real fucked up news. It may seem like such a small thing but it is enough to make me want to skip this entry and just wait for next year. I already played through this region twice before anyway.
I'm fine with the new mons/megas being a selling point. But with X/Y being only a year old, in the same gen on the same engine, and with patching being a possibility now, why am I restricted to keeping the new megas in Hoenn? Especially with the lack of trainer customisation I'd much rather stay with my more personal X/Y trainer. In the end, even if I did transfer them back I've still bought ORAS in the end. Why does matter to them if I'm not using my Hoenn trainer?
And as for trading with someone who has ORAS while you don't, surely there would be a way to force you to own the game to be able to trade back.
At the very, very least they could patch in the ability to see the new forms if you're battling in X/Y. The fact that they're not even doing this shows their decision are down to laziness and not design.
Edit: seriously, if GF hadn't set a precedent for cross game combatibility I don't think I'd be this annoyed.
I haven't played a pokemon game since HG/SS, should I pick up X/Y or get OR/AS if I want a good pokemon experience? The lack of an endgame in X/Y kinda puts me off and the endgame of training your pokemon for battles it obsolete as a result of OR/AS. I liked gen 3 but I've never experienced gen 6