linkandzelda
Member
No, worse. Mega Rayquaza was so powerful that Smogon banned it even from Ubers.
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Pokemon VGC 2016 Ruleset - Up to 2 legendaries allowed per team
- Thread starter Not75Drops
- Start date
Ubers with a sprinkle of anything goes lol.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
Is the 3rd gen remake the only game being played?
Aaronrules380
Member
In fairness, mega Ray is weaker in doubles where it can be double targeted
Not75Drops
Member
Yes, they always use the most recent game due to new inclusions.
linkandzelda
Member
That is true, but it is still too overpowered to bring a diverse meta for 2016.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
Thanks and I was specifically wondering how one streams a handheld system? I know there will be a live audience. Would they just be looking at two people who have their heads down looking at their 3DS?
I'm psyched. Going to try and get a workable Zygarde 50% Forme before it's rendered completely useless
Capture devices sending the footage to a computer
Capture devices sending the footage to a computer
Here's Worlds finals from last year if you want to know what it looks like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqsBfIJYHf0
NHarmonic.
Member
What a joke.
Lol at pokemon competitive play, everyone using broken shit.
Lol at pokemon competitive play, everyone using broken shit.
Everything has a counter, my friend. Such is the nature of Pokémon.
And by the time Worlds comes around, I do question how many will still be using Mega Rayquaza.
Primal Groudon is the true threat in this metagame
Soul Dew is available in game. It's banned because it acts as Choice Specs and Assault Vest with no drawbacks. It's one of the only things that has ever been banned due to being overpowered.
Good thing people can (and will) use both!
That's a laughable argument when shit like Primal Groudon is legal this time around.
Or do you seriously think those Pokemon weren't banned for being overpowered?
Paltheos
Member
I've never followed VGC, but afaik allowing the 670+ BST crowd is a first, and allowing Mega Ray is... well, it's my understanding that the difference between Mega Ray and all other pokemon is comparable to the gap between RBY Mewtwo and the rest of RBY. Not using it is unequivocally a mistake, in a team-based game with hundreds of usually viable choices. It's just not fair. I'm gonna look more into this later.
Primal Groudon is powerful, but can't get any item boosts.
Whalermouse
Neo Member
How do you figure? I imagine many teams will adapt to Groudon by running Earthquake on Mega Salamence.
Aaronrules380
Member
Yep
The most interesting thing mega Ray brings to the table in vgc though is making duel mega teams more viable, since you could just not mega evolve Ray and it's still super viable with no drawbacks
The Red Orb is an item boost. Kinda like the Soul Dew.
You know what Pokemon does have a free item slot with sky high stats though? Mega Rayquaza.
Aaronrules380
Member
Who'd use mega salamence when mega rayquaza is so much better?
And primal groudon is amazing in doubles because it's weather will boost other pokemon's viability as well
theprodigy
Member
huh what? no it isn't, it comes with the Eon ticket, which is event-only
Whalermouse
Neo Member
Plus it gets access to Swords Dance and Rock Polish so it's not like Groudon is lacking in buffs
I forgot Rayquaza also has Earthquake, my b.
linkandzelda
Member
Actually, they probably weren't. TPC seems to only ban Mythicals, Cover Legends and Mewtwo under normal circumstances. I think it's probable that if Groudon and Rayquaza were not Cover Legends then they wouldn't have been banned last year ethier.
Red Orb changes form but it does not give any stat boosts.
It was still banned in Gen V when you could just find it in the Dreamyard.
THE FORM CHANGE IS A STAT BOOST
Why do you think cover legends are banned in the first place?
If it's a stat boost, then so are all Mega Evolutions. It's a completely different concept. It's not a simple stat boost.
I'm talking actual stat boosts from items, not the difference in stats.
Aaronrules380
Member
I'm wondering how well togekiss could work as follow me support for mega Ray. It also benefits from mega ray's ability, and unlike amoongus it won't share weaknesses after that's taken into account. especially since amoongus is weak to fire and flying which will be super prominent with primal groudon and mega Ray
Whalermouse
Neo Member
So do you think anyone will run legends other Groudon and Rayquaza? Shuca Berry Dialga might be able to wall them a little, and it can deal with those pesky Fairies. Mewtwo can outspeed and revenge kill Rayquaza with the right moves, but can't really switch into it.
Aaronrules380
Member
Sure, but they'll be the most common by far. I could also see some xerneas and primal kyogre
Not75Drops
Member
I just saw a comment on Reddit and I never thought about it.
Thundurus with Delta Stream up has no weaknesses...lol
Thundurus with Delta Stream up has no weaknesses...lol
Aaronrules380
Member
I mean, but it's not getting a multiplayer boost like life orbs. The 100 bst are nice, but the difference isn't that huge when they're spread around like that, especially on a pokemon who already has such a huge bst.
fredrancour
Member
Wow. I expected this to mean they were going the other direction and restricting cressalia and the genies. I wonder whether this will turn out hilarioiusly or terribly.
It seems kind of bizarre to allow the monster balanced around being a jrpg final boss to become a competitive character.
It seems kind of bizarre to allow the monster balanced around being a jrpg final boss to become a competitive character.
Ho-Oh seems like a hilarious partner for Primal Groudon.
linkandzelda
Member
Kyurem was still banned before B/W 2. Even when a Cover Legend happens to not be overpowered in the current metagame they are still banned, while non-cover-legends and mythicals who are too powerful stay unbanned. That indicates to me that TPC don't ban based on power.
Aaronrules380
Member
Mewtwo was banned. Legends like landorus aren't actually that much different to pseudo legends like garchomp statwise. Many are worse even
That ''not that huge'' boost coupled with the ability Desolate Lands makes it beyond broken. It dominates pretty much the whole meta when coupled with a few key Pokémons.
I can't believe there are people defending this bullshit. Either every single contestant will have a P-Groudon on the team or they will have to have a counter (there are only checks) for it. This tournament IS a joke.
I can't believe there are people defending this bullshit. Either every single contestant will have a P-Groudon on the team or they will have to have a counter (there are only checks) for it. This tournament IS a joke.
Red Orb pretty much amounts to flat boost in stats for Groudon though. It's not too dissimilar to Soul Dew.
Like minimum Special Attack goes from to 205 to 305 which is significant.
It's a fun change of pace.
Aaronrules380
Member
you act like vgc wasn't super centralized before this, but note how pretty muchc every team in the top 8 last year used some version of the CHALK setup, with all of them using mega kanghaskhan and landorus-t
Incidentally, there was a Battle Competition with similar rules to this earlier this year
http://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/competitions/4022/
Yep, 2010
A lot of people wanted Mega Evolution completely removed. Others wanted other legendaries completely removed.
I personally wanted this.
You're really confusing the stat changes from an in-battle form change with stat-boosting items. They're calculated completely differently.
http://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/competitions/4022/
Yep, 2010
A lot of people wanted Mega Evolution completely removed. Others wanted other legendaries completely removed.
I personally wanted this.
You're really confusing the stat changes from an in-battle form change with stat-boosting items. They're calculated completely differently.
El Sabroso
Member
it is NOT, is a change of the Pokemon's Base Stats not a boost like doing Sword's Dance or having the Life Orb doing more damage on top the Pokemon Base Stats capabilities, learn the difference
Just because it was shit they had to make it even worse? Come on man. At least VGC 2014 gave a chance to Pokémon like Pachirisu to shine, from there on it just got worse.
DBreakfast
Member
Wow... Gross. I've really enjoyed VGC rules in the past, but this just looks terrible. Just gonna be Rayquaza's everywhere. As if things weren't centralized enough.
Aaronrules380
Member
Not exactly. A significant portion of stats comes from iv and Evs, not just base stats. Soul dew multiplies that portion as well
Yes, I know what a stat boost technically is. Do you think that was the point of what I was trying to argue?
LegionAgent
Member
Would be great if Zygarde Perfect Form ends being a counter to all this other big legendaries (probably won't but still, one can dream)
Hot Coldman
Banned
They're different, but the end result is the same which is a boost in stats. Anyway, I think we're getting beside the point here. You argument that Soul Dew was banned because it was "too overpowered" in this format is something I don't agree with considering the proposed environment.
TPC has always banned Soul Dew iirc, so I doubt they really thought about it.
I'm aware, i'm just looking at the big picture here. A Latios with 594 SpA isn't that scary in practice, for example.