Zoe
Member
Why not Taser first?
Seems like they were preparing to, but the sudden movement made the officer with the gun go first.
Why not Taser first?
Sorry but that is insane. It is not a police officer's job to take a bullet and die. And again, "no signs of aggression" - either you didn't read the article or are being purposefully obtuse. Someone who has been reported as behaving very off and has his hands in his pockets and refuses to cooperate is a threat, end of story. A civilian life is not worth more than a police officer's life.
Because if you take this very same situation but have the suspect actually be armed the result would be two dead police officers.
You guys realize that if soldiers in war zones aren't allowed to fire unless fired upon? Yet these police who should have every advantage in terms of training, equipment, and information on the situation are allowed to use lethal force at their own discretion whenever they feel unsafe?Jesus do people actually think this? That cops should let people shoot them? What the fuck?
Is this normal for neogaf that nobody actually reads the OP/first few posts and just assumes stuff instead? :/
The fuck are you talking about. Of course you can train out instincts. That's the point of training. I mean sure, it's never going to be 100%, but you can definitely reduce instincts taking control. Firefighters, police officers, and military personnel all do it.
Very sad that people with severe mental issues often have no access to help that they need.
In this case it seems that the cops were justified in their actions. Sad all around though. I pray he finds the peace with the lord he could not find in life.
Police shouldn't be dealing with the mentally disabled.
But of course, the US can't think or finance an alternative.
You guys realize that if soldiers in war zones aren't allowed to fire unless fired upon? Yet these police who should have every advantage in terms of training, equipment, and information on the situation are allowed to use lethal force at their own discretion whenever they feel unsafe?
As for "letting people shoot them", how often do these suspects either have guns legally, or not have a gun at all? A significant number of officers are killed by their own weapons when someone takes it from them, yet the NRA opposes smart guns that would deactivate when not held by a user with the RFID ring. And yes, I do believe that an officer should be prepared to lay down their life in service at any moment, because "protect and serve" doesn't say "except suspects or convicts".
Are there protocols for police to deal with people with obvious mental issues?
You guys realize that if soldiers in war zones aren't allowed to fire unless fired upon? Yet these police who should have every advantage in terms of training, equipment, and information on the situation are allowed to use lethal force at their own discretion whenever they feel unsafe?
As for "letting people shoot them", how often do these suspects either have guns legally, or not have a gun at all? A significant number of officers are killed by their own weapons when someone takes it from them, yet the NRA opposes smart guns that would deactivate when not held by a user with the RFID ring. And yes, I do believe that an officer should be prepared to lay down their life in service at any moment, because "protect and serve" doesn't say "except suspects or convicts".
Simultaneously shot him and used a Taser?
Good communication/planning boys. Another job well done.
The fuck are you talking about?
Preservation of one's life is still a top priority. I have never heard of any training where a police or military just idles or reacts passively while an uncooperative and erratic person makes the sudden movement to shoot and kill him.
Why is this even a point of contention? Are there really armchair experts ITT saying they would react differently knowing they have a split second before a person literally motions to blow your head off with a firearm?
Yup, suicide by cop. You can't simulate pointing a deadly weapon in that moment and expect not to be shot.
Can a gun fit inside pants pockets? Genuinely curious?
Are there protocols for police to deal with people with obvious mental issues?
In America, sure.
No, that's a worldwide thing actually.
Annual fatal police shootings per million residents. Data are based on most recent available. US: 2014; France: 1995-2000; Denmark: 1996-2006; Portugal: 1995-2005; Sweden: 1996-2006; Netherlands: 2013-2014; Norway: 1996-2006; Germany: 2012; Finland: 1996-2006; England & Wales: 2014.
By contrast, national standards in most European countries conform to the European Convention on Human Rights, which impels its 47 signatories to permit only deadly force that is “absolutely necessary” to achieve a lawful purpose. Killings excused under America’s “reasonable belief” standards often violate Europe’s “absolute necessity” standards.
"Hey I need a few days paid vacation. Let's shoot someone."
Yet another incident that goes to show that cops are nothing more than an organized gang. And they're adored for it by right-wing America. : /
Yet another incident that goes to show that cops are nothing more than an organized gang. And they're adored for it by right-wing America. Protected even. : /
No, that's a worldwide thing actually. Since most of the rest of the western world doesn't have millions of guns in civilian hands there tend to be less of these cases however.
I don't fing get it! Did you read the OP at all or see the picture that was taken before the shooting occurred?!
I'm not a fucking armchair expert saying that I would react differently, because I'm not trained.
How do cops in countries without guns do things like this?
I also just love how we expect civilians to react rationally when there are guns pointed at them and cops possibly screaming, yet we don't expect trained police officers to act like calm and rationally.
Oh please. Race obviously played a factor here. Cops take down far more dangerous white men who are committing crimes all the time without killing them.
Oh please. Race obviously played a factor here. Cops take down far more dangerous white men who are committing crimes all the time without killing them.
UK use rubber bullets when dealing with suicide by cop situations.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/gunman-threatened-police-rifle-effort-6743070
Guy last year held up a gun and said he would shoot. But he survived, as they shot him with rubber bullets.
Robert Rogers had lured officers to his remote Northumberland home by making a 999 call saying he was going to put a bullet in his partner's head.
You guys realize that if soldiers in war zones aren't allowed to fire unless fired upon? Yet these police who should have every advantage in terms of training, equipment, and information on the situation are allowed to use lethal force at their own discretion whenever they feel unsafe?
Oh please. Race obviously played a factor here. Cops take down far more dangerous white men who are committing crimes all the time without killing them.
Sounds like suicide by cop, but they should have been able to easily subdue him with a taser long enough to get the man on the ground.
Nope, it's just easier to kill people with mental illnesses. I shouldn't expect anything different since those cops killed a man running around naked last year.
Sounds like suicide by cop, but they should have been able to easily subdue him with a taser long enough to get the man on the ground.
Nope, it's just easier to kill people with mental illnesses. I shouldn't expect anything different since those cops killed a man running around naked last year.
That does not seem like a comparable situation. Aside from that the cops in this threads' incident WERE trying to take him down non-lethally with a Taser first.
Oh please. Race obviously played a factor here. Cops take down far more dangerous white men who are committing crimes all the time without killing them.
You said it was a worldwide thing, when it isn't. There was even a guy who was charging cops with a machete that didn't get killed here. In the US he more then likely would have been killed. This is all about police training.
I'm not a fucking armchair expert saying that I would react differently, because I'm not trained.
How do cops in countries without guns do things like this?
I also just love how we expect civilians to react rationally when there are guns pointed at them and cops possibly screaming, yet we don't expect trained police officers to act like calm and rationally.
Good cop Bad cop scenario.Simultaneously shot him and used a Taser?
Good communication/planning boys. Another job well done.
I didn't see your edit before you made it and from what I can tell first "usuncut.com" doesn't exactly sound unbiased and second those are anecdotes.
There will also be similar anecdotes for black suspects. So unless you can present a statistic that shows police standoffs with white suspects end with targets shot unproportionally less often than with black suspects, I'm afraid that is just conjecture and emotional appeal.
According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.
U.S. police officers have shot and killed the exact same number of unarmed white people as they have unarmed black people: 50 each. But because the white population is approximately five times larger than the black population, that means unarmed black Americans were five times as likely as unarmed white Americans to be shot and killed by a police officer.
Oh please. Race obviously played a factor here. Cops take down far more dangerous white men who are committing crimes all the time without killing them.
I stopped counting, but still: Read the report. They were about to taser him.
The military has zero to do with this. And this is basically a textbook example of a) suicide by cop b) justified putative self-defence.
What confuses me is why citizens of our own country are dealt with more harshly than civilians and insurgents in occupied territory.Then you are confused. Protect & Serve does not mean letting suspects shoot you because afterall they might just act like they have a gun or have a BB gun.
I mentioned that more in my post on the last page. Officers unnecessary escalate situations to the point of lethal confrontation because they often lack proper training, then use said lack of training as an excuse for having no other option.Add to some of this that because officers are armed and seem to treat things the way they do, they put themselves in rather precarious positions that then lead to the danger with no other options but to shoot. The one big example I keep coming to is that mentally challenged man that his wife or mother called the police on because he wouldn't go to the doctor and the cops stood literally right on his porch, trapped by cars and everything.
In this case, too, the officer got close literally because if something happens they could shoot him. If this is a possibly dangerous and erratic person then there are solutions to keep officers out of firing range and training that should be implemented before something like this happens.