eBay Huckster
Member
yeah, all sixty-five-plus million of us will be alone in victory in six months' time
(much like all eleven-plus million of us are already alone in victory)
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Politico: Sanders campaign begins laying off staff
- Thread starter chadskin
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yeah, all sixty-five-plus million of us will be alone in victory in six months' time
(much like all eleven-plus million of us are already alone in victory)
The differences (or rather, the complete lack of overlap in *actual* policies) is completely obvious to anyone that tried.
Voters that are only single-issue ones (and I use that VERY losely -- being "anti-establishment" is not an issue in and of itself) can't be helped.
Being anti-trade is not anything anymore. It was rightfully abandoned by the technocratic left once the evidenced piled over the past 5 decades.
Orbis Tabula
Member
I should clarify I was talking about in November. If they can't convince themselves to vote Hillary in November, I have a hard time imagining they were able to swallow down voting for Obama in Nov '08 because of their similarities.
She should still win in the general. No, she's not well-liked by independents and even a chunk of Dems/liberal voters, but Trump is historically disliked, especially by minorities and women. A lot of the anger PoliGAF and Hillary supporters have against Bernie, to me seems like nerves. Hillary is not a great candidate. The American people know her well and many dislike her, distrust her, or both. So she needs all the time and money she can get to win them over.
It's an important election, and I get that, but economic justice is an issue that affects all Americans. If Hillary is going to be the next president then she needs to start by convincing us Sanders supporters that we can count on her towards that end. I'd be willing to risk a small chance at a Trump presidency to have a Democratic candidate run on the left and not towards the center.
The same benefits brought by any candidate who has ever ran: their message, their leadership, their inspiration, their goals, etc.
Just because there's no benefit to his opponent doesn't mean there's no benefit.
Frozenprince
Banned
If Trump is within 10 percentage points when the GE dust settles I'd be stunned.
ClosingADoor
Member
Kind of sad to see people with this mindset of not voting at all if their favorite guy doesn't make it. Guess compromise and realism aren't part of their mindset.
Not American, but don't you guys have a couple of very, very important Supreme Justices to probably elect in the next few years? Sounds to me you'd want to have a Democratic president then, no matter what so you don't end up with some conservative guys there the next 40 years.
Not American, but don't you guys have a couple of very, very important Supreme Justices to probably elect in the next few years? Sounds to me you'd want to have a Democratic president then, no matter what so you don't end up with some conservative guys there the next 40 years.
teruterubozu
Member
That's a stretch. In fact, it's probably the first election for many Bernie kids.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
The point is that making out Trump to be a viable substitute for Sanders based on one issue is asinine.
Kasich isn't reaching Sanders number though. +8 against Clinton and -4 on Sanders. I was really just pointing out something I thought was interesting from the site you posted.
I can vote for whoever I want. I vote on my gut.
My gut tells me Hillary would be the worst choice for me personally. Get off your smugness. It is not against the law to switch over and vote for the other side. Ideology and policies do not matter to me. Switching from Bernie to Trump is what I want just for the hell of it and fun.
Who are you to say otherwise? Don't like Democarcy? Tough shit. I have as much right to vote as you.
My gut tells me Hillary would be the worst choice for me personally. Get off your smugness. It is not against the law to switch over and vote for the other side. Ideology and policies do not matter to me. Switching from Bernie to Trump is what I want just for the hell of it and fun.
Who are you to say otherwise? Don't like Democarcy? Tough shit. I have as much right to vote as you.
DeadlyVirus
Member
Whoever said it was my party? I don't vote based on parties, I vote based on the people. If I don't like I don't have to vote for them. End of story. Is is that hard to understand?
I honestly think we should express our opinion on the ballot, and that's how I express mine. I don't care if no one cares, and couldn't give a rat's ass of what you think.
I have my opinion, you have yours, let's just leave it a that. If you want to vote for Hillary, then go ahead. I won't.
Aaron Strife
Banned
there's always something depressing about a losing candidate's supporters crying there are more of them when there clearly isn't
because they don't "trust" her
also Obama turned out to be an ineffective corporate shill. certainly wasn't hamstrung by an obstructionist congress, conservative court and red state governors. no he was obviously just a snake from the beginning. but we won't be fooled again! we won't be tricked into buying wholly into one candidate and setting them up as a messiah who will wave his magic wand and fix everything in his first 100 days #feelthebern
Lol Trump would kill all gop he has.
We've heard his message. I haven't heard anything new for months. His following is established, the message delivered, if anything he's losing traction not gaining it.
I see no incentives for him to stay in the race. Hell I voted for him in Utah for those exact reasons full well knowing he wouldn't win and I'd be voting for Hilary in the general.
Fair points. I also want Hilary further left than center.
Orbis Tabula
Member
So then, I would be correct in my assertion that they didn't vote for Obama in '08...right?
So people have to vote for Hillary? Not voting or voting green is considered voting republican?
teruterubozu
Member
In a very roundabout way.
ClosingADoor
Member
You have every right to. But the idea behind it is so utterly bizarre and out of touch that I don't know what is going through your head.
Guess it's "fun" to vote for a guy that has the power to make live worse for a lot of people.
Woof, bruh election night is going to be ROUGH for you. I'll take the quote though and add it to the bookmarks.
hammysaurusrex
Member
I'm not terribly concerned about Bernie or Bust to be honest - I think they're trying to hold something ransom they don't even actually possess in terms of political capital.
The demographic is overwhelmingly white 20-29 year-olds that will simply go back to being politically inactive outside of social media. I also strongly suspect a lot of them are less social democrat and more just anti-establishment in general, probably share more with the Ron Paul crowd than previous progressive movements within the Democrat party.
By no means should they be ignored and they absolutely have every right as any other demographic to be present and accounted for and advance their political agenda, but Hillary was smart to not rely on a demographic that has historically been overwhelmingly unreliable.
The demographic is overwhelmingly white 20-29 year-olds that will simply go back to being politically inactive outside of social media. I also strongly suspect a lot of them are less social democrat and more just anti-establishment in general, probably share more with the Ron Paul crowd than previous progressive movements within the Democrat party.
By no means should they be ignored and they absolutely have every right as any other demographic to be present and accounted for and advance their political agenda, but Hillary was smart to not rely on a demographic that has historically been overwhelmingly unreliable.
Seriously?
HRC supporters really need to stop demanding people vote for her (I will vote for her in November). It's counter-productive.
Just lay out the facts, what's at stake, and tell people to follow their hearts. Condescension and moral grandstanding over the binary nature of american politics won't accomplish anything but pissing people off.
Just lay out the facts, what's at stake, and tell people to follow their hearts. Condescension and moral grandstanding over the binary nature of american politics won't accomplish anything but pissing people off.
Aaron Strife
Banned
right to vote gives you the power to vote for anyone you want
right to speech means anyone gets to call you a dumbass for how you use that right
"In America you have the right to be stupid" - John Kerry
Go on.
This is the type of stuff that confuses me. How old are you? I'm asking because I'm interested to know if this is your first time voting. Also what aligns you the most with Bernie. What do you think of his social ideals?
Aaron Strife
Banned
is it condescension when a conversation goes like this
"Bernie supporters should vote for Hillary in the general election so she can appoint liberal justices to the Court"
"nah I'm gonna vote for Trump because IT'LL BE FUNNY HURR"
EatinOlives
Member
Suffice to say that anyone who thinks "I'll vote for no one/vote for Trump instead" clearly isn't informed enough to know what's at stake here. We don't have to have this apocalyptic view of "if my favorite politician doesn't make it, therefore this entire thing is wrong and I will actively try to sabotage it do vent my frustration". If someone pretends to be conscious of the racial issues, justice inequality issues, staggering income inequality, etc., then they will realize these issues are far bigger than ONE presidential primary.
Literally every time this comes up there's well reasoned posts pointing out the facts. And nearly every time the "I will NEVER vote HILLARY!!" crowd continues arguing enough to make it clear they never intended to actually be rational about their decision in the first place.
Christ, that's ugly. Guess minorities and immigrants don't amount to anything to you. Trump is a racist, full stop. Him and Bernie are not comparable at all aside from being anti-establishment.
Don't like us criticizing your decision? Tough shit. We have as much right to talk as you.
Orbis Tabula
Member
Exactly.
It's hard to take seriously a ransom demand from the group least likely to show up anyway. I don't really think they have nearly as much sway as they'd like.
Bernie Or Bust, by and large, doesn't represent a section of the Democratic base that has been turned off from voting and won't show up. They're mostly (and I stress mostly, obviously not all) made up of people who weren't likely to vote for Clinton in the general anyway. It's not worth getting upset about. If anyone is seriously considering Trump as a potential alternative to Sanders, they clearly aren't actually that invested in politics.
Of course you have the right. Nobody is questioning that. It's the inconsistency of the ideological positions that confuses people. From the outside it appears as a rash, knee jerk decision.
You did state that you vote with your gut. So that question is answered.
This too. You posted it online. In public.
It's obvious to me, but clearly there are those who will need to be told the obvious from Bernie's own mouth.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Have you guys seen what we have to deal with in Australia when we had Tony Abbott in office?
Prepare for a bigger shitshow than that if you vote in Trump. Only this time there are more international ramifications.
Prepare for a bigger shitshow than that if you vote in Trump. Only this time there are more international ramifications.
Dude, you just gotta give them time. The pain over the Bernie loss is still fresh.
Just lay out the situation, and most will eventually come around.
And besides, arguing with someone like that is just a waste of your time. They're basically all but trolling you.
Hellsing321
Member
Because Bernie would be thrilled to be on a Ticket that goes against everything he's campaigned on.
teruterubozu
Member
Oh they've heard this speech multiple times. It's not that they don't know, they just want to see it all burn. It's purely emotional. Just let 'em go.
Never said I don't deserve criticism.
I guess I should explain I'm pretty anarchistic and will always vote for the contrarian option - that's the way I operate. The whole political system is a joke to me. I want to see it crumble and Trump is best option for that.
EatinOlives
Member
Must be nice to have the privilege to be able to turn a presidential election into a trollfest.
Well there sure as hell don't want Trump, Lol.
wow
If anything is clear a lot of people have ignored the majority of what Bernie has said. I know he's the no money in politics guy but his ideals are much broader than that.
From what Ive read, Bernie and Trump are actually the one who actually might not see it as a Israel -100%-support-situation, but Trump can obviously be lying like he does all the time.
Guilt tripping Bernie voters probably isn't the way to win them over. Just sayin'.
Yeah, as a non-American I don't understand these people at all. Obama just signed on to the Paris climate accords and there are people who want to risk having that repealed or neutered via a Trump/Cruz presidency? Fuck off. We're on the precipice of environmental disaster that has a the capacity to wipe out modern human civilization, and this Paris agreement is basically the last ditch effort to not kill ourselves. Risking that because your preferred candidate did not win is some supremely petty bullshit.
As someone who hopes that they never have to kill a human being in their lifetime. That's a terrifying thought.
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