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[SwiftDeath]

http://www.polygon.com/2014/2/17/5419464/microsoft-xbox-one-remove-kinect-pack-in

The Xbox One has been on the market in North America for three months. Microsoft has failed to prove the worth of the Kinect hardware, and there are no concrete release dates for experiences that will justify its costs.

The Kinect for the Xbox One is a sophisticated, expensive piece of equipment that adds very little to the act of playing games. I'm able to get voice commands to work around 80 percent of the time, but my wife and children have much worse luck.

It doesn't help that your commands have to be oddly specific, to the point where learning the syntax needed to get the system to do anything requires either a bit of memorization or reading the prompts on the screen, at which point you would save both time and effort by simply using a controller.

The use of the Kinect for navigation and voice commands is limited and often frustrating, but the lack of games that use the hardware in any compelling way is just as much of a shame. There are a few gimmicks in games here and there, but Microsoft also packages in a headset with every Xbox One. The use of a sophisticated 3D camera with infrared capabilities and an array of microphones for voice commands is an expensive, and needless, form of overkill.

Anecdotal evidence from the Polygon water cooler suggests that the Kinect may be one of the most hated pieces of equipment in current use, especially among spouses.

The common defense of the Kinect is that developers wouldn't support it unless it was forced on consumers. This assumes that a fragmented user base would cause a low level of support from the industry.

That attitude is presumptuous and consumer-hostile. Why not have Microsoft and developers create something that compels people to pick up the hardware first, and then see how well it does? Pushing a product on the public with the hope that it will be useful once we have it is a cruel inversion of how product adoption should be handled.

The forced pack-in proves something we already knew at the beginning of this generation: Almost no one would want to buy the Kinect separately if they were given the choice.

Allow players who like the unit to purchase one separately if they'd like, but let's stop pretending that developers are going to jump back on board the motion control train, or that the expensive piece of hardware is required to accept voice commands that may or may not work.

Would most people buy a $100 Kinect along with the system? Absolutely not. They have one because they don't have a choice, and that's a brutish way to build a product.

The Kinect adds cost and frustration, and at this point there's nothing on the horizon that will make it more attractive. Microsoft is charging every player for a feature they may not want, even if drastically improved. It's time to make the Kinect a peripheral, not a pack-in.

I found this interesting coming from Polygon and Ben Kuchera of all places as it mirrors many such arguments we've had on Gaf about Kinect in months gone by.

I tried not to copy the entire article over but as it's an opinion piece, it's harder to take the meat out. I would say it might actually be worthy of giving Polygon those clicks but that's just me.

Lock if too british a way to build a thread

 

[rokkerkory]

I wonder how market would respond to $349 w/o kinect and $449 with? Since it isnt needed or mandatory make it optional.

 

[socomfanaticest2001]

This won't happen, basically xb1 was build around kinect, the interface of the console says alot.

if anything MSFT should do redesign within two years if things don't go there way!!

 

[mrjohill]

Is anything being made for the new kinect? All I remember is that Fantasia game

 

[xxracerxx]

So basically what a lot of people have been saying since the reveal.

 

[Man]

Is the OS easily navigatable at this point or still a convoluted mess?

 

[FranXico]

there are no concrete release dates for experiences

In my days, they used to be called games.

 

[deadpixel]

They turned on their master.

 

[cardinalmind]

So basically what a lot of people have been saying since the reveal.

Pretty much this.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Is anything being made for the new kinect? All I remember is that Fantasia game

Kinect Sport Rivals, Fantasia and supposedly D4 are Kinect games

I'm not sure if D4 is Kinect only though. severely doubt it as it would run the risk of poor sales

Also The Fighter Within

 

[Victrix]

Is the OS easily navigatable at this point or still a convoluted mess?

The latter. Doubt it will improve for quite a few patches. Friends and notifications and party all being separate apps is just the dumbest shit. Also love that 'xbox friends' takes you to some halfassed facebook wanna be social feed page instead of your fucking friends list.

 

[nelchaar]

Depends on how much the price is reduced after removing Kinect. I still wouldn't pay $399 for a console significantly much more underpowered than another console at $399. $299 or $350 and we'll talk.

 

[thefit]

Is MS using polygon to float thought bubbles?

 

[Vilam]

Great article that's completely on point, but ultimately serves no purpose. Microsoft will remove the Kinect when the weak sales of the Xbone no longer justify keeping it included in the box... a moment which is rapidly approaching.

The argument that more developers would use it if it was included was always a silly one. There are just as many devs out there who want nothing to do with it as core gamers who don't want it foisted upon their games. In many ways, devs are a self serving audience of gamers themselves.

 

[Hellsing321]

Focusing on Kinect was a fool's errand. The people who cared about it before have already tired of it, and the people who are actually going to be buying an Xbone want nothing to do with it.

 

[calder]

In my days, they used to be called games.

The author was clearly using a word that encompassed things other than games deliberately, because the "killer app" for Kinect could be an, er, app. Or a control scheme, or a OS feature, etc.

 

[DeadlyParasite]

Personally a good compromise would be to integrate the voice command hardware into the physical console itself and market the Xbox One for $399.99. That way you could still have the cool voice stuff like pinning and navigation without the un-needed video component.

I own an Xbox One but I wouldn't mind a price drop to bring more people on-board.

 

[StoopKid]

They turned on their master.

Major Nelson is writing a new check as we speak.

 

[Dead Man]

So basically what a lot of people have been saying since the reveal.

Just took Ben a little while to digest it and regurgitate it

 

[Owlowiscious]

This far in and no dance central is the big question mark

 

[jond76]

Rivals on track for April 8th, article is wrong. Also, Kinect is brilliant for navigation.

 

[Phire Phox]

The Xbox One has been on the market in North America for three months. Microsoft has failed to prove the worth of the Kinect hardware, and there are no concrete release dates for experiences that will justify its costs.

Kinect sports Rivals arrives in April.

 

[Ryudo]

In this day and age how can a company as big as microsoft get something so wrong? Surely if there is no killer app for kinect (2.0) and there never was for the first iteration ..... why the hell make it a main feature of your next console to the point it gimps the power of the console?

 

[SaggyMonkey]

Disagree, though MS hasn't really brought it with new reasons to use it yet. The voice stuff is nice when it works. They really need some better game reasons for it, but including it was the right move.

 

[MavFan619]

Personally a good compromise would be to integrate the voice command hardware into the physical console itself and market the Xbox One for $399.99. That way you could still have the cool voice stuff like pinning and navigation without the un-needed video component.

I own an Xbox One but I wouldn't mind a price drop to bring more people on-board.

$399.99 without Kinect seems steep with everything we know about the box. I would like the price cut to $399.99 with Kinect still in with compelling uses for it in many games namely platform exclusives, if MS own studios can't show why the thing is good for games, no one can. Aside from the sports game, I'm curious how D4 is received and more games along those lines.

 

[shikamaroooo]

If MS don't bundle the Xbox one with kinect and sell it separately, will that bring the value down for kinect? Because wouldn't thousands of people with kinect 2s just trade in their Kinects or sell them. I'm obviously no analyst or anything, me and a mate were discussing it and I'm wondering what other people think,

 

[EBE]

i dont get the point about needing memorize "oddly specific syntax."

XBOX ON
XBOX SNAP...
XBOX GO TO...
XBOX OFF

getting them to work is another matter entirely, as i understand some people seem to have difficulty doing so. ive personally had no such problems, but whatever.

idk. im excited about Kinect Sports Rivals and Xbox Fitness has been getting a lot of use from me. just keep the thing and announce a price drop. if youre at the point where youre paying ~400 for the console plus kinect and you still hate it that much then just dont use it. keep it in the box or whatever.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Rivals on track for April 8th, article is wrong. Also, Kinect is brilliant for navigation.

Fairly certain that Ben is well aware that KSR is coming out this spring and merely contends that it doesn't justify the kinect's existence as a mandatory pack-in

The Kinect will also be used with Kinect Sports Rivals, which looks perfectly passable. It's also yet another collection of minigames for a motion control device. This is 2014, and Microsoft is still chasing the Wii Sports money?

i dont get the point about needing memorize "oddly specific syntax."
.

He clearly means that you have to use specific syntax and cannot use free flowing speech, "natural speech"

 

[Duxxy3]

There has to be a big cut coming down the pipe if Polygon of all sites is writing something like this.

I want to see what desperate Microsoft looks like. Hopefully it's reminiscent of the early 360 days when they actually made games, and priced aggressively. The Mattrick version of Microsoft was lazy, sitting on the hard work of peter moore and j allard.

 

[Dead Man]

Rivals on track for April 8th, article is wrong. Also, Kinect is brilliant for navigation.

Kinect sports Rivals arrives in April.

Pretty sure one game that is not released yet doesn't justify the costs, nor demonstrate its worth. It may, but one game will struggle to justify and extra $100 expenditure.

 

[Aaron]

It's bizarre that MS forced kinect on their customers, and yet don't have games that make any real use of it. Even Nintendo released a showpiece game for their gamepad.

 

[StoopKid]

There has to be a big cut coming down the pipe if Polygon of all sites is writing something like this.

I want to see what desperate Microsoft looks like. Hopefully it's reminiscent of the early 360 days when they actually made games, and priced aggressively. The Mattrick version of Microsoft was lazy, sitting on the hard work of peter moore and j allard.

That year halo 3 and cod 4 came out.

 

[Mrbob]

I'd buy Kinect-less XB1 at $399. I hope MS realizes the bulk of early adopters do not want Kinect.

They turned on their master.

If MS don't sell consoles, Polygon won't get paid. This is an indirect plea for more money.

 

[Bright-Light]

The success rate for voice commands are a disgrace. At least in my own experience. If they are gonna build the navigation around this, it needs to work better.

 

[boredandlazy]

Kinect sports Rivals arrives in April.

So the Kinect Sports Rivals experience will be worth $160?

 

[SwiftDeath]

So the Kinect Sports Rivals experience will be worth $160?

For 100% of XB1 buyers.....

 

[EBE]

He clearly means that you have to use specific syntax and cannot use free flowing speech, "natural speech"

well what the hell? whats more natural than telling something to go somewhere by saying, go there? do people want to be saying, "uh hey xbox could you please open netflix for me?"

 

[Sotha_Sil]

It's a shame because you would think developers could come up with some cool ways to implement voice/motion features into games, and it is an impressive piece of technology. It would only happen to 1st/2nd party games though, since 3rd party developers can't implement integral voice/motion systems into their games when the PS4 isn't packaged with Move.

 

[Mushroomer25]

Not going to happen. They've put too much cash into Kinect, and they haven't suffered enough of a sales hit to scrap that investment. With time, and with developer adoption, the peripheral can become a major selling focus of the XBox ONE. All of that is tossed out the window with a Kinect-free SKU.

 

[Duxxy3]

Not going to happen. They've put too much cash into Kinect, and they haven't suffered enough of a sales hit to scrap that investment. With time, and with developer adoption, the peripheral can become a major selling focus of the XBox ONE. All of that is tossed out the window with a Kinect-free SKU.

Think of how much money they would lose by dropping the price of the system to $399, AND including kinect in the box.

Now that is a massive loss.

 

[SwiftDeath]

well what the hell? whats more natural than telling something to go somewhere by saying, go there? do people want to be saying, "uh hey xbox could you please open netflix for me?"

Yes of course they do? Speech recognition of natural language is an immensely valuable technology if any company was to be able to offer it correctly. Google. Apple, Ms are all working on it I can assure you

 

[Silky]

Ben Kuchera

lmfao

 

[WordsintheWater]

I was getting super pissed last night when playing Titanfall, I was talking to my friend about the new Xbox update and simply said Xbox One games look better without the filter now, so what happens? Titanfall pauses mid game to tell me the Xbox is listening. So I backed out of that by telling it to stop listening and then I said "the console just picked up it's name and paused on me, that shit sucks" and again the Xbox started listening because it misinterpreted "that shit sucks" for a voice command.

 

[EBE]

Think of how much money they would lose by dropping the price of the system to $399, AND including kinect in the box.

Now that is a massive loss.

isnt it the same as them dropping both the kinect and the price anyway? i mean theyd still be manufacturing (and now paying to stock) a piece of tech people apparently dont want to buy.

 

[Dead Man]

I was getting super pissed last night when playing Titanfall, I was talking to my friend about the new Xbox update and simply said Xbox One games look better without the filter now, so what happens? Titanfall pauses mid game to tell me the Xbox is listening. So I backed out of that by telling it to stop listening and then I said "the console just picked up it's name and paused on me, that shit sucks" and again the Xbox started listening because it misinterpreted "that shit sucks" for a voice command.

There's no system wide option to disable it?

Edit: And you can't reassign commands or teach new ones?

 

[SwiftDeath]

isnt it the same as them dropping both the kinect and the price anyway? i mean theyd still be manufacturing (and now paying to stock) a piece of tech people apparently dont want to buy.

MS would cut Kinect production to likely 20% or so of XB1 production. Thus they'd save something like 80% of the associated cost without having to give anything away for free in essence.

 

[Toski]

In this day and age how can a company as big as microsoft get something so wrong? Surely if there is no killer app for kinect (2.0) and there never was for the first iteration ..... why the hell make it a main feature of your next console to the point it gimps the power of the console?

I am wondering this myself, and it seems to be bad management. The fact that the DRM got off the whiteboard and into execution makes me think someone or a certain group was trying to make a play for power by building MS' own dreambox.

The fact that they didn't stomp on Sony's throat when they had the chance, then let them comeback and rebuild speaks to the ineptitude of their corporate strategy.

 

[DJwest]

This won't happen, basically xb1 was build around kinect, the interface of the console says alot.

if anything MSFT should do redesign within two years if things don't go there way!!

MS are software kings. How feasible would it be to make a simplified OS specifically designed to be used with a controller. I'm thinking, when you log in, the X1 recognises whether you have Kinect or not and switches to the appropriate OS.

So basically what a lot of people have been saying since the reveal.

Exactly. Kinectless SKU @ $400 pls

 

[BBboy20]

The latter. Doubt it will improve for quite a few patches. Friends and notifications and party all being separate apps is just the dumbest shit. Also love that 'xbox friends' takes you to some halfassed facebook wanna be social feed page instead of your fucking friends list.

Are majority of Bone owners fine with this? Did they get irate when they found out it wasn't identical to the 360's?

 

[foamdino]

It's interesting that you can (nearly/sort of) compare what Xbox one would be like if kinect was a peripheral. PS4 has an optional camera and no camera based games (I guess playroom - but is it a 'game' or more of a tech demo?)

I recall a post somewhere stating that PS4 camera is sold out in many places - so people will buy these things, but you need a reason - PS4 has streaming which is the current 'killer app' for the PS4 camera. Kinect currently doesn't have twitch streaming (or have I missed that) - but if microsoft had launched with it, then the camera would have had a purpose from day 1.

It's yet more evidence to suggest that the planning of the Xbox one was rushed.