Support NeoGAF

[something fishy]

Yes because MS always execute functionality brilliantly. Pretend Windows 8 never happened

I'm not saying which one will be better. XBOX Live used to be slick, but the console interface as it stands is horrendous. Confusing, full of adverts and relies on "Bing".

it's functionally fine though. Its the change in the UI that many feel wasn't needed.

 

[chubigans]

There was a video block on the diagram.

Ah, interesting. It's kinda crazy how similar these two systems are gonna be this gen.

 

[Phonomezer]

You know what would be nice on the Achievement front? Having the option to enable or disable online achievements. Not that I care, it's just a tired complaint.

It's not confusing. And it doesn't rely on Bing.

Let's be honest here; getting to XBLA/Marketplace is a pain. Initially, I couldn't find it AT ALL.

 

[JaggedSac]

How exactly would the auto-recording of specific achievements work? It would be trivial to make it start recording after you get it (and pointless), but I'm not sure how you could have the system always be able to recognize when you are entering a game state where achievement success is imminent.

Even for boss achievements or challenge mode type levels where it would be easy to recognize an 'attempt state', does it record every attempt you make or continually rewrite over one copy? Seeing just one successful attempt isn't always as fun as seeing the struggle to get there, but recording the whole session could take up enormous amounts of space.

Probably developer hooks. If not, a generous amount of time before and after.

Let's be honest here; getting to XBLA/Marketplace is a pain. Initially, I couldn't find it AT ALL.

Seriously?

 

[Des0lar]

I guess if we're talking about old games that is different...I thought we were talking a brand new $60 game that people are allowed to download and play on their console without paying.

Witcher 2 did it. Indies do it constantly. Because it's the right thing to do. To empower the consumer not the publisher.

 

[Nirolak]

Ah, interesting. It's kinda crazy how similar these two systems are gonna be this gen.

Really the only things that seem immediately different are the GPUs and one having DDR3 + eSRAM memory (latency favorable) and one having GDDR5 memory (bandwidth favorable).

The CPUs look like carbon copies and they basically have incredibly similar coprocessors.

 

[abadguy]

Wait what? I know the always-on was something they discussed but always online? Don't believe they ever mentioned such a thing

I'm going by the functionality that was announced by Sony so far and the rumored functionality of the Xbox. Both have low power "stand by states" where you are connected to the internet without using the console( you know "Always online") and according to this rumor both are "leaving it up to the publisher" as to whether or not they'll have some internet required DRM deal for their games. Sounds like all the same shit to me.

 

[Goldenroad]

Witcher 2 did it. Indies do it constantly. Because it's the right thing to do. To empower the consumer not the publisher.

So I can just download the Witcher 2 onto a thumbstick and play it on my 360? News to me.

 

[Phonomezer]

Seriously?

Yeah during the beta. It was actually harder to find then, they "fixed" it before release.. or so my memory goes.

 

[Respawn]

Wait what? I know the always-on was something they discussed but always online? Don't believe they ever mentioned such a thing

They didn't. Yosh said you can play your games offline and used games are supported. MMO's of course will require always online like every MMO out there.
Now leaving it up to the publisher is conflicting. Diablo 3 was a good show in proof of no online coming from PC.

 

[Majanew]

You know what would be nice on the Achievement front? Having the option to enable or disable online achievements. Not that I care, it's just a tired complaint.




Let's be honest here; getting to XBLA/Marketplace is a pain. Initially, I couldn't find it AT ALL.

LOL

Sad. The tabs are written out plain as day. Who wouldn't go to the games tab looking for Arcade games?

 

[FuturusX]

Any game that requires always on authentication that is in essence an offline game.

Will not be bought. I'm making my stand right here.

Unless it's a Kojima game...or a Super Mario...perhaps Halo or a Final Fantasy. Gran Turismo too....I'll make an exception there.

Everything else...or GTA....or....

 

[Angelus Errare]

Wasn't it uStream? Or was Twitch a recent announcement

Sorry meant to say uStream.

 

[daevv]

Relying on 1 or 2 other people to help with an achievement is bad enough. Hate to rely on hundreds to accomplish something.

 

[Mandoric]

There was a video block on the diagram.

My impression is that normally "video encoder" refers to the h/w that converts the framebuffer to HDMI (and decoder for HDMI in?), and the part we're looking for here would be "H.264 encoder". (or HEVC if they're being really proactive and smart)

A dedicated encoder chip is probably a much smarter solution assuming it's a feature added after silicon lock; I'm no EE, but I assume adding it is akin to the PS3's late-stage board changes. Doing it in software would eat the 2-3 core OS reservation all by itself.
Memory, not so much, unless there's a core SKU with limited storage; encoders are only particularly RAM-hungry when using look-ahead, which is bad for streaming anyway. If it's buffering 15 minutes to RAM to avoid thrashing 8-16GB of Flash, though... There's your 3GB reservation.

 

[B.O.O.M]

I'm going by the functionality that was announced by Sony so far and the rumored functionality of the Xbox. Both have low power "stand by states" where you are connected to the internet without using the console( you know "Always online") and according to this rumor both are "leaving it up to the publisher" as to whether or not they'll have some internet required DRM deal for their games. Sounds like all the same shit to me.

I don't think the standby mode for PS4 has anything to do with being online. It will be there even without internet. It's basically a mode to restart the system to a point of a game you were playing without having to go through the start up. I think the two terms always on and always online gets thrown around and becomes rather confusing. PS4 is always-on. Like the ps3 you can keep it connected to the internet but that's not what the feature they talked was about. So it's not the same thing

They didn't. Yosh said you can play your games offline and used games are supported. MMO's of course will require always online like every MMO out there.
Now leaving it up to the publisher is conflicting. Diablo 3 was a good show in proof of no online coming from PC.

Yep that's what I remembered as well. Thanks for the confirmation

 

[cyberheater]

Any game that requires always on authentication that is in essence an offline game.

Will not be bought. I'm making my stand right here.

Unless it's a Kojima game...or a Super Mario...perhaps Halo or a Final Fantasy. Gran Turismo too....I'll make an exception there.

Everything else...or GTA....or....

It's good to have a flexible line in the sand.

 

[Phonomezer]

LOL

Sad. The tabs are written out plain as day. Who wouldn't go to the games tab looking for Arcade games?

As stated previously, this is during the beta. It was a brave new world ;_;

 

[bangai-o]

Really the only things that seem immediately different are the GPUs and one having DDR3 + eSRAM memory (latency favorable) and one having GDDR5 memory (bandwidth favorable).

The CPUs look like carbon copies and they basically have incredibly similar coprocessors.

what makes the game have more graphics? latency or bandwidth?

 

[Angelus Errare]

what makes the game have more graphics? latency or bandwidth?

A better GPU.

 

[Replicant]

Our overlord MS tell Polygon that the next Xbox will indeed have some form of an always-on requirement.

....is what they really wanted to say.

 

[Majanew]

A better GPU.

Yep. Especially one with 600 GFLOPS more in computational power.

 

[Phonomezer]

Any game that requires always on authentication that is in essence an offline game.

Will not be bought. I'm making my stand right here.

Unless it's a Kojima game...or a Super Mario...perhaps Halo or a Final Fantasy. Gran Turismo too....I'll make an exception there.

Everything else...or GTA....or....

This is how it's going to be for everyone. You're either in or out, it's up to the publisher. It's unfortunate.

Meanwhile, if Sony takes this course of action as well then what does it say about the people so adamant on "boycotting" the Xbox, as if to indicate they had any intention of purchasing one in the first place, because of said features?

 

[FuturusX]

Xbox Next - Saving Face Edition!

MS back tracks on bold plans to use always on DRM!

Let's publishers decide DRM policies!

(Newspaper Tabloid posting is the future of GAF)

 

[Tacitus_]

I had no idea how up in arms people got over cheevos of all things.

 

[jond76]

This thread is sad...

 

[FuturusX]

I had no idea how up in arms people got over cheevos of all things.

A shit sammich is a shit sammich no matter what bread you make it with...

This thread is sad...

There is a sadness in all things. You'll grow to accept it. Time breaks everything.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Some of these bigger, cross-title, communal achievements will be a requirement for all titles.

I actually find this hilarious. Now I completely ignore achievements, so maybe it's why I can have gallows humor about it, but it's a perfect metaphor for the AAAA industry of today.

 

[statham]

You're hoping for that bold aren't you? Don't worry GAF will administer the oxygen to you if it doesn't hold true.
Going to be a hell of a reveal either way

:/

 

[LycanXIII]

Can I block people from "Following" me?

 

[aliencowz7]

I had no idea how up in arms people got over cheevos of all things.

It shouldn't really be surprising at all, all kinds of different people buy consoles and all those different people have completely different things that appeal to them or things that really bother them.

Just thinking of people with debilitating OCD, they will be completely unable to play certain games knowing that they will forever be unable to complete it because of time restricted achievements. Trying to tell these people to just "ignore it" is pretty shitty considering the entire reason OCD is such an awful thing to deal with every day is that it is entirely impossible to just "ignore it".

That is just one example of why someone might find the new achievement system to be a major issue and it is a very legitimate one. I won't even begin to assume I know all of the countless other reasons someone might be against it.

 

[milsorgen]

I know a lot of gaffers hate achievements but for me they get me playing and buying games I otherwise wouldn't. I'm no fiend as after all these years I'm at 30k... but they are only 'achievements' in my eyes with the current strict setup. Adding these things for events or to basically patch player behavior later on competely removes any (slight) legitimacy these things had.

The Nextbox is really shaping up to be a (personal) stinker.

ps raptr my handle. i have been a fairly devoted 360 player but i probably won't be back for round 3.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

:/

Hehe. It's comin' for you, yo.

 

[deadlast]

Dear Microsoft,
I no longer care about achievements. What now?


Anyone else feel like achievements aren't a big deal anymore?

 

[Miles Quaritch]

"I’ve heard something to address that but haven’t been able to second source it yet."

Thanks. If it's not too much trouble, can you post any further updates.

Same man, it would be an awesome addition.

4 pack pricing is one of the best ideas Valve has ever had.

* Publisher wins because you sell 4 copies guaranteed, even at the price of (usually) 3. Better to sell 4 copies at a slight discount than only 1 full price copy.
* Consumer wins because we all tend to play MP games in a circle of friends, and this allows us to do so slightly cheaper.

If Microsoft and Sony take anything away from Steam to use on their own services, it needs to be the 4 pack.

Indeed. It's an ingenious idea and one that needs to be implemented on consoles as soon as possible. As stated, guaranteeing 4 sales, even if there is a small discount, is much better than selling just one.

I hope both Sony and MS see the benefits of this, same goes for the majority of publishers/developers.

Dear Microsoft,
I no longer care about achievements. What now?


Anyone else feel like achievements aren't a big deal anymore?

Now? They haven't been a big deal for years, for me at least. I know some people are fanatical about them, but I've never seen the appeal.

 

[omonimo]

Xbox Next - Saving Face Edition!

MS back tracks on bold plans to use always on DRM!

Let's publishers decide DRM policies!

(Newspaper Tabloid posting is the future of GAF)

Uh so now it's only a publisher decision, you MS, like a genius.

 

[XtremeXpider]

So the recording part is basically a reaction to PS4.

It was on the leaked document (2010?).

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

This actually all sounds like good news.

 

[jaypah]

It was on the leaked document (2010?).

Yeah, to think that they started implementing this feature on February 21st is crazy.

 

[theDeeDubs]

People getting up in arns over ACHIEVEMENTS. Oh dear.

Well they can't use "always on" anymore since they both appear to be equal in that regard. I'm just hoping for another leak on BC.

Also glad that the crappy MP trophies broke my 100% OCD need this gen.

 

[DigitalOp]

I, for one, embrace our new media overlords.

 

[J-Rod]

I think the achievement things are really going to do a lot for them. I've never cared for such things, but apparently a lot of people do based on this gen.

 

[Tripolygon]

Yeah, to think that they started implementing this feature on February 21st is crazy.

Thats not how the internet works. He who announced it first invented it and everyone else copied.

 

[Mr.Green]

Thrilled to see both next gen consoles allow you to share more stuff no one gives a shit about. Except Zuckerberg, maybe.

 

[Squire]

This actually all sounds like good news.

.

 

[makingmusic476]

Cross-game achievements just sound like a way for publishers to push their entire line up on people.

"Can't 100% any of our games unless you own them all!"

Will be the bane of completionists everywhere.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

Ah, interesting. It's kinda crazy how similar these two systems are gonna be this gen.

Might explain why MS delayed their unveil after the PS4 announcement. MS is the new Sony!

Spoiler

the SimCity stuff probably influenced some of the DRM decisions as well

 

[Router]

No friend limit?

Dang, now I have to have GAF on my friend list

Still not happy with the idea of letting publishers decide on the DRM/Internet required.

Better than everything needing it though. Much better.


*edit*

Multiplat games should be gloriously similar this generation.

 

[Miles X]

Oh MS, you so sneaky, now when EA decide to make their games on 720 always online, all the flack and pressure will be redirected at them.

 

[schwabdizzle]

I always find it kind of funny that Polygon has so much info on this thing.