I think the last thing Halo needs right now is shorter release cycles.
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Polygon: Xbox Scorpio will be a ~6 TFLOP system (v PS4K's 4.14), unveil soon, Fall 17
- Thread starter BUNTING1243
- Start date
I think the last thing Halo needs right now is shorter release cycles.
Latency is the issue, not bandwidth. ESRAM has ultra low latency because, by definition, it's on chip. I'm not sure what they can do to get around that.
You can repeat that as often as you want, many won't listen.
JumPeRJumPzZ
Banned
Why not just wait?
dealer-
Member
People probably expecting the price to tank when a new model is announced.
Leyasu
Banned
It does and it doesn't make sense and yeah you just know it will be fucked. But a new console coming on the 10yr anniversary.... Is a nice opportunity for launching a new console with a halo game.
It would be forward compatible.
I wonder if that includes 360 backwards compatibility too.
I don't see why not. The software is already there.
MilkyJoe
Member
I still don't think this will change much for MS. The Neo is releasing first. Although Scorpio is more powerful, it's too late. The userbase is already on PS4 ecosystem. Also the lack of decent exclusive in comparison to Sony is going to affect MS. I feel Halo and Gears don't have the franchise relevance while something like Uncharted is only getting popular while MS IPs are on a decline.
Also majority of casuals don't care about graphics, PS4 didn't win based on graphics it won based on cheaper price, marketing and games. That leaves the hardcore gamer and alot of those gamers buy PS4 fir it's exclusive, hardcore graphics lovers will get ad PC. Of course there is a gap in the market for hardcore graphic lovers who prefer console. But I just don't think that market is big enough.
Also majority of casuals don't care about graphics, PS4 didn't win based on graphics it won based on cheaper price, marketing and games. That leaves the hardcore gamer and alot of those gamers buy PS4 fir it's exclusive, hardcore graphics lovers will get ad PC. Of course there is a gap in the market for hardcore graphic lovers who prefer console. But I just don't think that market is big enough.
MilkyJoe
Member
What ever helps you sleep
There may never be a "proper gen" again, only upgrades.
This is why I think Xbox will never come back to the top spot. Sony got lucky that it's upgrades from now on which means, the ecosystem and userbase people are used to matters. People's games and online communities being intact.
For example as a PS4 owner someone may have a level 40 Destiny character and friends on Playstation. Or may have a hist if friends they play COD with on Playstation. To suddenly switch to Scorpio and buy Destiny again, start over leveling a character and find new friends or get all friends to migrate.
It's a impossible task for Microsoft. On top of this all MS doesn't have the huge exclusives to sway people.
MilkyJoe
Member
US population and the UK are not going to beat out the rest of the world. And there will always be a never ending supply of new customers. Writing off MS over one fuck up is wishful thinking.
And your edit?
Destiny? Really? My word...
Leyasu
Banned
Just like all those people that dumped the 360 with their friends and stuff for the ps4 after the full scale of the disaster was apparent..
PS4 and Xbox One started a proper new gen. This is totally different. Xbox One wasn't backwards compatible with 360 at launch. They lost there userbase because it was a fresh start and let's not forget the huge Kinect fuck up.
This is basically a upgrade, people's library of games and online community will be in tact in the upgrade. It will be extremely difficult for MS to change the game now. The fact we are just going to get upgrades and no new generation will hurt MS.
Leyasu
Banned
Why, because of destiny?? My friends list and stuff stayed intact in 2013. And please don't let the pr fool you. This will be treated as a new gen just like every other tech company does with it's yearly releases.
That's why I think they will market this as a new console with BC even if it's a little too weak to be new generation it still very well could be the most powerful console due to launching later. I wouldn't be surprised if MS sold it at a loss at the beginning
Destiny was just a hypothetical example. What I am getting at online communities and current game libraries won't be intact.
The majority of the gaming community has accepted PS4 as the go to console. And majority of gamers will transition to Neo so they still have access to there games library, friends and online community.
Yeah, there is something there but not sure if I should expect something big if they've got their hands full with Halo 6, Halo Wars 2 and Halo 5 Forge for PC unless 343 are big enough or have another studio doing a new Halo game on the side. If it's another Halo Spartan something, jog on, booo!
Halo 3 Anniversary is so not happening unless they are doing a massive reworking of Halo MCC and bringing it to PC to earn more money because they certainly didn't care enough with the Xbox One version and have dropped it completely now. I would love it if they have spent all this time redoing the whole thing to perfection along with H3A and pigs will fly. At this stage 343 are lalalalalalala can't hear you, REQs, Halo 6, wooooo! I would be amazed if they looked back ever again, for them it's done. I like new stuff but shame the series didn't get the respect it deserves.
The brand was never really in the top spot overall.
Definitely makes sense if you play those type of games. Some others can/will move on if they are attracted to the system.
Third party multiplats are selling consoles the most. Exclusives outside of entries from series that are already popular haven't really swayed console sales much. Heck, third party marketing deals have had a bigger impact on sales than exclusives. Power is going to sway some people, just like it did for the PS4 earlier this gen. I agree that it more than likely won't put Xbox in the top spot but I don't think anyone (outside of some huge Xbox fans) are saying this. I can see the Scorprio (if these rumors are true) bringing the Xbox brand closer in the US and UK to where it was during the 360 gen due to the current sales split (%) between PS4 and Xbox One not being huge in these territories, and that would help the brand. It won't make the brand have the same worldwide appeal as the PlayStation brand but that is almost impossible at this point considering Playstation's longer history.
I think we should see how both models get advertised before we make these conclusions. If Sony pushes the Neo as an improved PS4 and MS pushes the Xbox Scorpio as a "Next gen Xbox" that's simply fully backwards compatible to the Xbox One (so a "marketing twist") then I can definitely see a decent number of people moving to the Xbox. I'm sure many would rather spend $300-400 on "an actual new system" than something that's just a revision of a 2013 console.
Neo and original PS4 sales should definitely still be great though -- heck, I have no doubt in my mind that they will sell better than Xbox in territories outside of US/UK.
People went from 360 to PS4 in droves. Don't see why that can't happen to some level for PS4 to Scorpio. Mainline games don't really mean much when next years/sequel game comes out, people move onto the next. You might see Destiny players start over in Destiny 2 and the Scorpio could be the platform of choice for more people or not, who knows.
I imagine Scorpio with Xbox One games would be quite appealing if you've never owned an Xbox One and even better with 360 if you have or haven't owned one. Decent catalogue to catch up with on the cheap.
I imagine Scorpio with Xbox One games would be quite appealing if you've never owned an Xbox One and even better with 360 if you have or haven't owned one. Decent catalogue to catch up with on the cheap.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
I'm going to say this and you can bookmark it. Scorpio (if it exists in the manner suggested) is going to be very successful getting existing Xbox owners to upgrade and not much else.
But honesty, with Xbox mini, the streaming stick and Xbox front-end on PC, it pretty clear that is all Microsoft needs it to do. They already have their plan to grow their userbase and it doesn't involve typical console war stuff. It's playing to their strengths in software and growing Xbox into a brand beyond hardware and limits, much like it's windows parent. In fact I'd go as far to say that if Sony wanted to base the PS5s OS on windows 10 and also have a dedicated Xbox storefront, Microsoft would have no issue with it.
Also, you know all these ridiculous XBO deals that have been happening? Expect them to dry up with Scorpio. This console is also is also about keeping the ASP of XBO hardware high, instead of practically giving them away just to grow marketshare.
But honesty, with Xbox mini, the streaming stick and Xbox front-end on PC, it pretty clear that is all Microsoft needs it to do. They already have their plan to grow their userbase and it doesn't involve typical console war stuff. It's playing to their strengths in software and growing Xbox into a brand beyond hardware and limits, much like it's windows parent. In fact I'd go as far to say that if Sony wanted to base the PS5s OS on windows 10 and also have a dedicated Xbox storefront, Microsoft would have no issue with it.
Also, you know all these ridiculous XBO deals that have been happening? Expect them to dry up with Scorpio. This console is also is also about keeping the ASP of XBO hardware high, instead of practically giving them away just to grow marketshare.
Yep. Let's just wait to see when they announce the new systems and plans for them. People will always go to the more attractive system.
Of course they will. It'll be the cheaper option. They aren't going to stop selling a successful console to boost sales of Neo.
I don't understand why people keep using 360 to PS4 as a example. Xbox One wasn't backwards compatible on launch. They also had a major fuck up with merketing and Kinect. I'm sure Sony won't end up doing that. People also went PS2 to 360 due to Sony's manor fuck up with PS3 launch. The fact we Andre getting upgrades from bow on its less likely for anyone to have huge fuck ups and shake ups. PS1 to PS2 wasn't much of a huge shake up or fuck up and Sony dominated. This is a the age of connectivity, digital content, online communities etc. Sony's timing of dominating with PS4 in this age will help them massively in the future. The fact that PS4 is the go to console will only make it more obvious that there upgrade systems will also continue to dominate.
If enough of them upgrade in between the Neo's release and whenever the "PS5" releases then some PS4 owners (again, especially in North America and UK) will more than likely move along with them too.
I agree. It's obvious that Microsoft isn't going for a simple console war "our console sales vs. your console sales" battle here. They want people to have access to the same Xbox services and games across various devices.
Oh definitely -- especially if these rumors about its specs are true.
Obscuritas
Member
Even COD Games moved to a three year development cycle now, there's no way you'll see Halo 6 (developed by 343i) the next fall season.
crazepharmacist
Member
Do people care more about specs or price? PS4k will have a ~1 year head start and having lower specs than the Scorpio, Sony will be able to price it competitively. Whatever price Microsoft launches their box at, imagine Sony cutting their 4k to be $100 cheaper or even more. A year head start might even allow for node shrinks. I don't think Sony is going to be dethroned anytime soon.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Yeah I'd say that's obvious. Some peoples sole reason to own a console is to play with their friends.
But with people far more invested in digital ecosystems than last gen and no great generational reset, it will take a greater level of disillusionment to change primary system.
And the people who haven't jumped in to this generation yet are not going to jump in with new consoles that are at launch prices, if not higher. That secondary or even tierary market are even more price sensitive.
It absolutely will, no way they make that kind of investment just to leave it behind with a new console. Bringing BC to the XBO was in many ways an early step in creating a unified Xbox "platform" that will be forward and backwards compatible going forward.
I think people want to keep the "console warz" going whereas MS is trying to change it up and not be a console vs. console. Sony is going to beat MS with the console stuff, that's evident (even with Scorpio)...what MS can do and rightly so is trying to grow their brand through other avenues. That's the one thing that Sony has that MS needs/wants. It's all about people. Getting people to like your brand and trust it. Only way they can do that is to try to reach as many people as possible and make sure that they have a good time doing it.
What I'm seeing from MS is that they are willing to make something that less people will probably get but to make sure that the people that use their stuff, like to keep it. I believe it was Satya Nadella that said he wanted people from using Windows to choosing and loving Windows (yea, crazy, right, but I understand him). I think that's probably the same for Xbox. If you want people to choose your system, it better be a good system.
Ninja Edit: I also think that they may bring that PC to Xbox Streaming. That would be useful for the "Xbox Stick" (which I think may be branded OneGuide)
What I'm seeing from MS is that they are willing to make something that less people will probably get but to make sure that the people that use their stuff, like to keep it. I believe it was Satya Nadella that said he wanted people from using Windows to choosing and loving Windows (yea, crazy, right, but I understand him). I think that's probably the same for Xbox. If you want people to choose your system, it better be a good system.
Ninja Edit: I also think that they may bring that PC to Xbox Streaming. That would be useful for the "Xbox Stick" (which I think may be branded OneGuide)
jeff_rigby
Banned
Exactly, what's coming with UHD Media support and Vidipath will have the XB1 and PS4 as media hubs for the home. They are the first embedded PCs and a whole line of PCs will be sold to do the same for the Living room TV. Services will be the profit centers as much as Game and Console sales. Microsoft was first with this with "Xbox Live Gold" and with the PS4, Sony started the same model.
XB1 sales will pickup as more casual users buy the consoles for their media and TV features which Xbox Dongle, Xbox Mini and Surface telegraph. They are STBs to support next generation TV: Playready sideloaded media, or from Vidipath Antenna and Cable TV tuners and DVR'd or Live streamed by the XB1 which then serves (Vidipath) to other platforms (Phones, tablets, Xbox mini, the streaming stick and 1080P Smart TVs) in the home as a Media hub.
So does the leak mean that Vidipath will finally be supported at the end of 2016 or will it be walled garden and a later Vidipath firmware update?
Note: UHD Media support requires Embedded DRM which means a trusted boot and Trusted Execution Environment which in AMD APUs and later dGPUs means ARM Trustzone. The XB1 and PS4 Game consoles are the first large APUs able to support UHD Media as Embedded PCs with trusted boot and TEE.
To recap:
1) The PS4 and XB1 launch Consoles are UHD Capable (Fact -confirmed-) Will be updated October 2016 (Strong Speculation, Mentioned is a Update Jan 2016 which did not happen)
2) BDXL drives from 2010 BD-R specs can read UHD Disks (not play) as can BD-ROM drives after a firmware update. The BD+ and AACS 2.0 routines have to run in a TEE that has a trusted boot. The difference between Mount Fuji book 8 & 9 give the changes to the drive firmware to support UHD Blu-ray. (Fact) (everything has to be in place to play UHD blu-ray movies).
3) UHD Media is served as HTML5 and a 4K TV screen is a webpage. Coming with UHD is a new browser and new DRM hardware. HEVC profile 10 multi-view plus depthmap (or subset) will be used for all streaming media in the future on UHD Capable platforms. (Fact)
4) HDCP 2.2 takes place in the media TEE which also supports Miracast, DTCP-IP (Playready, WMDRM and ND), HDMI 2 over LAN and Vidipath (Fact)
5) Microsoft and Sony have always planned to support 14 nm FinFET with Polaris and Vega in 2017 and plan to support the next console in 2019 be it an iteration or next generation. (Fact in letters to the EU power board and some speculation) Given a Livingroom TDP; Polaris for PS4 using GDDR5 will be 4 TF and Vega using HBM 2 for XB1 will be 6 TF. (Fact) XB1 has to use HBM 2 while the PS4 can use GDDR5 because they moved the ARM IP out of the APU.
PS4 Neo will be released before the XB1 Scorpio by about 6 months to a year. (Speculation but based on the PS4 ability to use GDDR5 and thus Polaris which AMD is releasing first). PS4 NEO will be cheaper to manufacture than XB1 Scorpio. (Strong speculation). There may be two XB1 versions but the PS4 will probably only have one going forward (Speculation based on price to manufacture). This is contrary logic if based on hardware design. Since the PS4 Southbridge contains all Media/ARM IP, it can be updated without needing to update the APU for any new features coming with UHD Media while the XB1 has all ARM IP in the APU and needs a complete new chip to update UHD media features.
6) Sony and Microsoft plan to support next generation TV and Vidipath. (Fact)
7) They plan to have DVRs for Antenna TV. Microsoft has already announced this and support for 1080P which is available from the EU as DVB T2 using Mpeg 4 and in the US only with ATSC 3 (Fact for Microsoft, speculation for Sony)
8) They plan to support UHD Blu-ray with digital bridge as a Vidipath server using Playready ND (Fact in Sony and Panasonic PDFs but speculation for the consoles)
9) Sony has a UHD Blu-ray Licence for a Embedded or Game Console Player (fact)
10) Sony has a UHD blu-ray Licence for a PC Player Application (Fact)
11) Sony wanted the UHD Blu-ray Digital bridge as a mandate . ANY UHD blu-ray player with digital bridge can support being a Media HUB (Transcode from 1080P to or from 4K) (Fact)
12) DVB T2 with HEVC starts in 2017 (Germany), in Korea 2017 as ATSC 3 and the FCC (US) has been petitioned to allow voluntary ATSC 3 implementation in 2017. (Fact)
13) 2017 was the date set for Cable TV to start to move to All IPTV and DOCSIS 3.1 (Fact)
14) ATSC 3 has features that could support a massive cable cutting movement to Antenna TV. It's envisioned that ATSC 3.0 will be the primary supplier of free content supplemented by the Internet (Cable TV cable modem supplying all IPTV media). (Fact) Playstation Vue and other streaming services will be the supplemental
15) LG already has a ATSC 1 & 3 Antenna TV Tuner/Vidipath server with more to come in 2017. (Fact)
16) Any UHD capable Dongle, STB, Game console or TV that supports HTML5 with W3C extensions and HEVC can be a next generation TV and Vidipath player if they have Playready DRM (fact)
17) Microsoft is rumored to announce Xbox dongles, Xbox STBs and a Xbox Slim this year and Scorpio late 2017. This is a complete spread of STBs to be supported by the XB1 as a Media and Game Hub. Always planned and now near enough to HEVC broadband and Antenna TV support for an announcement. This plus NEO is I think why Sony believes they will sell 20 million PS4 consoles from Christmas season 2016 to March 2017. UHD blu-ray with digital bridge and Vidipath along with it being a media hub and DVR for other platforms and a Next generation TV platform.
Best guess XB1 Slim will sell for $299 and PS4 (NEO) will sell for $399 as the only PS4 going forward. Scorpio in 2017 will probably be $499 with XB1 slim still selling for $299.
Every UHD TV to this point and the near future will also need a Vidipath Tuner (Fact).
18) Every Vidipath platform will have Playready DRM (Fact) Sony PS4 has Playready porting kit 3 and WMDRM (Fact in PS4 notice, there is no requirement for the notice, they are sneaking in an announcement for Vidipath support.)
19) VR uses a subset of the UHD software stack and hardware in the UHD blu-ray with digital bridge platforms. The same hardware that does the transcoding from 1080P to/from 4K can distort the output for VR goggles.
All the above are proven or speculated in my posts and threads with Cites supporting speculation.
It's also used for the app stuff for shows. I think labeling it a "Xbox stick" isn't good for the masses. Most people associate Xbox with gaming. If you are a business trying to have mass appeal, you don't label something that's a niche. OneGuide is associated with Xbox but it doesn't only mean gaming. I'm not saying it will be that but I don't think naming it a "Xbox Stick" or whatever is a good idea.
People could search for a show and it come up with different apps using the OneGuide app channel stuff. That would be it's benefit as that name.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Exactly this. I would also argue thats exactly what Nintendo is intending to do as well.
There will always be hardcore fanboys but what people should be taking from all this is all 3 manufacturers are really dropping any attempt fo fight or outsell each other and moving to working to their very specific strengths.
Microsoft : Xbox everywhere. A ecosystem more about the users than the hardware, with options for every budget.
Sony : PlayStation content serving every taste, every language, every region. United behind the console for the everyman.
Nintendo: Moving beyond gaming to provide the trademark Nintendo experience, something you cannot get anywhere else. Dedicated hardware just a means to that end, but not the only approach.
Bottom line I feel all 3 understand much better than anyone, is they need each other and it's not about trying to be someone's only console anymore. The ideal situation is getting more people to buy secondary consoles.
Final Verdict
Member
I think that at this point it is completely pointless and impossible to predict how the market will react to these new devices. We simply don't have enough information yet, and either company could easily screw up.
And besides, what does it matter if one outsells the other? As long as they both continue to have a healthy eco system, both brands should stay in tact.
I personally don't think Microsoft needs to be the market leader. They just need to do better thanks they have done this past cycle. And considering just how much they messed up last time, that should not be hard to top.
Now of course I'm sure they would like to be the market leader....
And besides, what does it matter if one outsells the other? As long as they both continue to have a healthy eco system, both brands should stay in tact.
I personally don't think Microsoft needs to be the market leader. They just need to do better thanks they have done this past cycle. And considering just how much they messed up last time, that should not be hard to top.
Now of course I'm sure they would like to be the market leader....
And they already tried to brand Xbox with different sectors and it didn't work out all that well.
Remember Xbox Music? Hell, call it Surface Stick.
Lime Blockade
Banned
Well the OneGuide does show whats trending or whats new for Apps like Hulu, YouTube, and Crunchyroll, so the name is kind of fitting since the OneGuide can do more then just show your Cable-box listings.
Edit: Looks like I was beaten to the punch.
I agree. People game on all types of devices nowadays. The consoles are a niche within a niche. For all the flack it got, the Wii will always be the first mainstream gaming console that appealed to the masses more than any other console that has ever come out. It really changed the game. Now people are gaming with their phones, tablets, pcs, consoles, and wearables. There's way more people gaming and trying to get them is going to be a tough task, but that's definitely the aim for all 3 companies.
OneStick
Sorry pal, but I feel completely different about this. We'll reach fanboy console warz climax in the next few years. There will be casualties - I'm not sure if Nintendo as a console manufacturer will survive all of this. We'll even have console civil warz where Playstation Neo users will bash the OG PS 4 peasants and so on.
Second point: this isn't happy hippo land where MS, Sony and Nintendo will end up holding hands. There is absolutely no indication that the console market has grown overall or will grow because of incremental upgrades. Maybe people will buy a secondary console as consequence, but I can also see people staying in their ecosystem and committing fully to it. Meaning, if you have to buy a new upgrade every 2-3 years now, no way the majority will be able to afford a second console.
Playstation 2 wants to have a word with you, sir. I'm really surprised how so many Gaffers seem to forget that PS2 received major push with all the Singstar causal type of games. Sony was going for moms and dads and grannys before Wii was launched.
There was a PS2 in nearly every household around me at that time. This was also a important reason why the PS2 sales didn't drop off as consoles normally do when a new model arrives.
LukasTaves
Member
Do they need to get around that?
Esram is just memory. It just so happens to have lower latency and high speed compared to the main memory, but I don't see why it wouldn't just work, so there will be a performance degradation due the higher latency, but if everything else is faster it will likely end up being faster overall.
Shouldn't impact the game's code as well, because I doubt any game out there has hard coded the timing it takes from read from esram.
It would be similar to how xbone games perform against their Ps4 counterparts, the esram may even make some part of the process faster on xbone, but overall it's still faster on ps4. And regarding game support, AFAIK there's no specific code involving accessing esram, just "prepare things up" code, like managing what goes into esram and at what time, along with many ways to split that data to make more room, which wouldn't be a problem on a system that has a larger pool of faster ram.