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[Bjoern the Smexy]

Cast looks okay.

This can't possibly be worse than the Japanese movies.
Hopefully it ends after the L saga. Just like the anime and manga. Right?


EDIT: Wait, there are no shinigami in this? Okay, it CAN be worse then. I would've loved an awesome CGI animated Ryuk

 

[Izuna]

I'm hyped for this. Rewatching the original anime made me realise it gets really bad quickly (around the time the amnesia arc happened).

I think this show will be far more interesting set in the US anyway.

I'm glad Light's white and L's black. I hope Wingard plays with ideas of white supremacy and an unfair justice system.

It would be hard to make Timmy Turner sympathetic if he was a racist though.

Like, the racism that causes inmates to be disproportionately black is originally unbeknownst to Light and this is one of L's motivations to get as much help as he can to take down Kira. In doing so, Light becomes an inadvertent racist force in society and begins to change his habits reflecting this -- alerting L, making him suspicious of Light.

Because it was done on good intentions, Light didn't think about it making suspicion point in his direction, so he battles with the dilemma of doing the right thing or getting caught. And instead of reverting back to more indiscriminate killing of "discriminated" criminals/black people, he perverts Kira's mission to something that avoids the dilemma altogether.

By doing this, this give L clues about Kira being someone who has access to police records of criminals -- making Light a possibility -- but diverting away from more incriminating clue.

OMG

 

[Tagg9]

I was still hoping for a more eccentric actor to play L. Oh well.

 

[lightskintwin]

A lot of ya'll are jumping the gun in being disappointed about no Shinigami. We have no idea if they or something similar will be in the film or not.

 

[SeanC]

I guess you could write around the Shinigami. Just use it as generic powers within the Death Note and the consequences that come with it.

Death Note lends itself to taking place pretty much anywhere with anyone. I read a draft a a year ago, had an unnamed US city, Light Turner etc...but it also had Ryuk still so they must have just did a rewrite and took him out completely. Called him Shinigami as well in that so didn't make some westernized death-god adaptation.

It was also pretty hard-R rated. Lots of death. Lots of f-bombs.

 

[AlternativeUlster]

I imagine Wingard is going to approach this like a Twilight zone episode so I am fine without any of the gods nonsense. The premise will be boy finds book with the rules (hell it could just be one rule) and then a investigator is on his case. That's all that is needed really.

 

[Onaco]

Thinking about it: what if the Death Note subtitles and dub simply called Shinigamis "reapers"? Would there be such a controversy over the name change if it was made years ago? Shouldn't they technically be translated to Grim Reapers, Death Gods, Gods of Death, or Death Spirit into English? I feel that the choice of calling them shinigami was just style, unique, and a bit unnecessary to be blunt. As much as I like to preserve the original source material when it comes to this, I don't understand the meaning behind keeping the name "shinigami" other than somehow pleasing a very minor group of fans. Changing it now will have drastic consequences towards the fanbase, but this debate wouldn't have even existed if others subtitled/dubbed them as Grim Reapers.

 

[Linkark07]

Really like the casting of L, unlike Light surname... Turner... Turner... nope, don't like it.

Honestly, they could have made a brand new Death Note story keeping only the dynamic of the Death Note owner vs the detective and the shinigami which owns the Death Note.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

I was still hoping for a more eccentric actor to play L. Oh well.

Hopefully he plays him as an eccentric, but I'll bet he plays him as nothing more than a generic intense detective from an American procedural

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Anyone got the news piece or info dump on the Light casting? I found the Edward Zo video where he said through the grapevine he heard no Asian actors allowed and when he pursued it they were already in final negotiations for Nat.

I was still hoping for a more eccentric actor to play L. Oh well.

Good thing they hired an actor to portray L.

 

[Octavianus]

Light Turner

 

[lightskintwin]

Anyone got the news piece or info dump on the Light casting? I found the Edward Zo video where he said through the grapevine he heard no Asian actors allowed and when he pursued it they were already in final negotiations for Nat.

I mean if you've ever seen an open casting call sheet that's usually how it goes, but often times lead roles to big movies are only open to a select few chosen by the studio, producers, or director which is probably what happened in this case. Although I agreed with a lot of what Edward Zo said, him calling this practice racist is a bit misguided. The default to white protagonist is definitely a racially biased one, but ultimately as an artistic project it is left up to the financiers and decision makers.

Good thing they hired an actor to portray L.

Exactly

 

[SeanC]

I haven't seen a casting breakdown so I don't know for certain but that would be odd to actually go into "no asians" on an open-call. They might have limited it to "Caucasian" which is about as bad, but saying the age and race of a character they're looking for is kind of the norm. Still, it's a role that could have easily been open to any young actor no matter their race.

I have a hard time believing the producers went into it saying "no asians" considering three of the four main producers are Asian-American and the casting director is one of the best out there (House of Cards, Daredevil, All of Fincher's stuff).

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Although I agreed with a lot of what Edward Zo said, him calling this practice racist is a bit misguided. The default to white protagonist is definitely a racially biased one, but ultimately as an artistic project it is left up to the financiers and decision makers.

So the financiers and decision makers are racists. Gotcha

 

[A Link to the Past]

I wish it was this Turner

 

[lightskintwin]

I have a hard time believing the producers went into it saying "no asians" considering three of the four main producers are Asian-American and the casting director is one of the best out there (House of Cards, Daredevil, All of Fincher's stuff).

Why do you find that so hard to believe? LOL Have you seen those producers films?

So the financiers and decision makers are racists. Gotcha

Sure if you want to call Asian American producers self hating racists.

 

[Reptars Revenge]

White Turner. Still excited for this movie. Netflix don't let me down.

 

[SeanC]

Why do you find that so hard to believe? LOL Have you seen those producers films?

They have a history of adapting asian products for US audiences. Yeah, I've seen them and they tend to cast caucasians despite being asian themselves. Sure, they're probably going to hire a white dude/dudette for their product, but specifically marginalizing and excluding their own race from the outset with "not looking for asians" is what is hard to believe to me.

 

[lightskintwin]

They have a history of adapting asian products for US audiences. Yeah, I've seen them and they tend to cast caucasians despite being asian themselves. Sure, they're probably going to hire a white dude/dudette for their product, but specifically marginalizing and excluding their own race from the outset with "not looking for asians" is what is hard to believe to me.

Following what's always been done before and maintaining status quo isn't that hard to believe especially if you view Asian American leads as a financial risk.

 

[oti]

Light Turner lmao

loooooooooool

 

[KissVibes]

Death Note is a garbage property with two fucking abysmal live action adaptations already. Can't really drag the brand down much more.

 

[Langdon Alger]

They should have called him Light de Beaumarchais.

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

Hold that L, Turner

 

[SeanC]

Following what's always been done before and maintaining status quo isn't that hard to believe especially if you view Asian American leads as a financial risk.

Oh they're definitely status quo, especially the guy that's done all the horror remakes, but are they self-hating if they are not casting asians? (keeping in mind it's conjecture from one actor who heard it).

Better question still, is it appropriation if a) all cultural references to Japan are removed completely (unlike, say, Ghost in the Shell) and they just stay with the Death Note idea plot and b) the dudes adapting are all asian-americans themselves (with one Japanese-American born in Japan).

Another question: how much of Japanese culture is ingrained in Death Note? I always got the impression it's a pretty westernized story and read that Shinigami is more pop-culture than cultural or significant to Japanese beliefs (religious or folk).

Just putting that out there for discussion. Haven't read the manga, only seen the anime.

 

[Erigu]

Thinking about it: what if the Death Note subtitles and dub simply called Shinigamis "reapers"? Would there be such a controversy over the name change if it was made years ago? Shouldn't they technically be translated to Grim Reapers, Death Gods, Gods of Death, or Death Spirit into English?

Not even the original Japanese version kept "Shinigami" in the English rules of the notebook. I believe they went with "Gods of Death" (although "Grim Reapers" would be a perfectly adequate translation, indeed).

 

[lightskintwin]

Oh they're definitely status quo, especially the guy that's done all the horror remakes, but are they self-hating if they are not casting asians? (keeping in mind it's conjecture from one actor who heard it).

No they're not self hating Asians, they probably don't even put much thought into it besides making the most money. If you had to cast somebody as the all American boy or girl in a film, 99 times out of 100 it'll be white. You may consider somebody black that 1 out of 99 times if you're feeling really edgy. LOL

Better question still, is it appropriation if a) all cultural references to Japan are removed completely (unlike, say, Ghost in the Shell) and they just stay with the Death Note idea plot and b) the dudes adapting are all asian-americans themselves (with one Japanese-American born in Japan).

No it's not appropriation or whitewashing, it's an adaptation and it happens all the time. Also remember that the Asian owners of the IP gave their permission, were compensated for licensing, and sometimes are even part of the creative process in these adaptations.

Another question: how much of Japanese culture is ingrained in Death Note? I always got the impression it's a pretty westernized story and read that Shinigami is more pop-culture than cultural or significant to Japanese beliefs (religious or folk).

I suspect everything will be westernized including Shinigami if they exist in this film.

 

[Erigu]

I suspect everything will be westernized including Shinigami if they exist in this film.

I'm not sure there's anything to westernize about those...

 

[lightskintwin]

I'm not sure there's anything to westernize about those...

Grim Reapers, Angels of Death, etc...

 

[JeremyEtcetera]

This news is making me a bit worried...

 

[Erigu]

Grim Reapers, Angels of Death, etc...

That's already what they are.

 

[lightskintwin]

That's already what they are.

They're not 1:1 analogous. They share similarities but very distinctive differences rooted in their region's cultures and religion. Hence why they should use the Judeo-Christian lens when adapting this.

 

[Fuu]

This news is making me a bit worried...

http://i.imgur.com/kScDhAH.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/odGQU8H.jpg

Main difference being that Death Note has a good director. James Wong had mostly duds and Shyamalan was far gone from his glory days by the time he directed TLA.

 

[Erigu]

They're not 1:1 analogous. They share similarities but very distinctive differences rooted in their region's cultures and religion.

Could you elaborate? What would you say is specifically Japanese (or even Asian) about Ryuk and his pals?

 

[lightskintwin]

Could you elaborate? What would you say is specifically Japanese (or even Asian) about Ryuk and his pals?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinigami

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_of_Death
or more specificialy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroying_angel_(Bible)

Now shinigami's are more similar to Grim Reapers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_(personification)

 

[cj_iwakura]

Main difference being that Death Note has a good director. James Wong had mostly duds and Shyamalan was far gone from his glory days by the time he directed TLA.

Will this be a hard R, though? PG-13 isn't exactly his specialty, and this seems like it's aimed straight at the teen crowd.

 

[Erigu]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinigami

That's just how the word "Grim Reaper" is usually translated, in Japan. As I pointed out above, not even the original Japanese version kept the word "shinigami" as is in the English rules of the notebooks. It never was a "Japanese culture" thing, in the series.

Now shinigami's are more similar to Grim Reapers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_(personification)

Not even "similar": that's what they are.

I mean...

Also, the Wikipedia article you just linked to has this to say, in the "East Asia" section:

There are also death gods called shinigami (死&#31070, which are closer to the Western tradition of the Grim Reaper; while common in modern Japanese arts and fiction, they were essentially absent in traditional mythology.

Like I said above, nothing to westernize, there: it was a Western motif to begin with.

 

[lightskintwin]

Will this be a hard R, though? PG-13 isn't exactly his specialty, and this seems like it's aimed straight at the teen crowd.

Netflix bought the film so I don't think it'll be shown in theaters.
Also Death Note producers Roy Lee and Dan Lin said:

“It’s definitely for adults. It is zero chance it will be below an R-rating. It will be one of the first manga adaptations that feels very grounded but still has fantastical elements.”

That's just how the word "Grim Reaper" is usually translated, in Japan. Like I said above, not even the original Japanese version kept the word "shinigami" as is in the English rules of the notebooks. It never was a "Japanese culture" thing, in the series.


Not even "similar": that's what they are.

I mean...

Interesting, I was just going by their entry:

There are also death gods called shinigami (死&#31070, which are closer to the Western tradition of the Grim Reaper; while common in modern Japanese arts and fiction, they were essentially absent in traditional mythology.

Edit: We used the same quote. LOL

Like I said above, nothing to westernize, there: it was a Western motif to begin with.

Didn't realize this at all, Thank you for clarifying it.

 

[Erigu]

Interesting, I was just going by their entry:

Haha, I just edited my post to quote that exact part...

I imagine the confusion mostly stems from fan translations keeping the "shinigami" term as is, which made it seem like it was somehow rooted in Japanese traditions?
(Probably also why some apparently still believe the main character's name was really meant to be "Raito", a "perfectly normal Japanese name"... Those pesky fan translations!)

 

[lightskintwin]

Haha, I just edited my post to quote that exact part...

Reading that entry, I figured Shinigami were created independently with no influences outside their own that just happen to be similar to the Western tradition of Grim Reapers. It's educational to know that they're exactly the same because it's based on the west's grim reapers and interchangeable.

 

[Erigu]

Reading that entry, I figured Shinigami were created independently with no influences outside their own that just happen to be similar to the Western tradition of Grim Reapers. It's educational to know that they're exactly the same because it's based on the west's grim reapers and interchangeable.

Well, I'd say whether or not they're actually interchangeable depends on how the author handled the original motif. In the case of Death Note, I don't see why they wouldn't be, at the moment. But for other stories, that might be another matter, if the authors decide to add some elements from Asian folklore to the mix (... Bleach, maybe? don't quote me on that, as I'm really not all that familiar with the series).

 

[lightskintwin]

Well, I'd say whether or not they're actually interchangeable depends on how the author handled the original motif. In the case of Death Note, I don't see why they wouldn't be, at the moment. But for other stories, that might be another matter, if the authors decide to add some elements from Asian folklore to the mix (... Bleach, maybe? don't quote me on that, as I'm really not all that familiar with the series).

LOL Don't you miseducate me.

 

[AlexBasch]

Nah, it just means he's looking at porn.

Or hes a chronic masturbator

Can confirm both of these statements.

 

[Erigu]

LOL Don't you miseducate me.

Well, it's not like Japanese folkflore doesn't have somewhat similar concepts! I just can't think of any reference to those in Death Note at the moment, whereas the Western Grim Reaper motif is pretty damn obvious.

... Then again, now that I think about it, it was made obvious by the art. Maybe that was just the artist's interpretation, and the writer didn't really have that in mind? Those two didn't interact much, I believe, so...

 

[Not]

Light...Turner?

 

[Kalentan]

While there is always a chance it will be bad... I can't help but wish one of these movies could be the next "Edge of tomorrow."

Which was soooo good.

 

[Not]

I can't with the people in Hollywood (and in this thread) who still think "American" is synonymous with "Caucasian."

 

[Subpar Spatula]

I can't with the people in Hollywood (and in this thread) who still think "American" is synonymous with "Caucasian."

I asked before but does anyone have the article where the staff behind this said no Asians? It seems to be a case of telephone messages and when Edward Zo did try they were in final negotiations for Nat to play Light.

I get Hollywood really doesn't like Asian leads but where did they say no Asian lead? It seems to be a big thing people hate about this adaption. Who was the jackass that said it?

 

[Edwins]

While there is always a chance it will be bad... I can't help but wish one of these movies could be the next "Edge of tomorrow."

Which was soooo good.

This was supposed to be a big release from Warner Bros. until fairly recently. They passed on it and let Netflix take it instead. The studio behind such wonderful adaptations as Pan, BvS, and Tarzan deemed this one unworthy. Hell, the Japanese division of WB had great financial and critical success with Death Note a decade ago (the previous films are actually what got the US rights deal done, Death Note was supposed to be the next Ring/Grudge/etc.). It's probably best to keep expectations low. On the bright side, everyone can just watch it with their Netflix subscription.

 

[Magicgamer101]

Light Turner? I am never watching this

 

[lightskintwin]

I asked before but does anyone have the article where the staff behind this said no Asians? It seems to be a case of telephone messages and when Edward Zo did try they were in final negotiations for Nat to play Light.

I get Hollywood really doesn't like Asian leads but where did they say no Asian lead? It seems to be a big thing people hate about this adaption. Who was the jackass that said it?

Why would the producers admit publicly they weren't interested in Asian actors for Light? Almost all producers have an idea of either who they want for the part or at the very least what gender/race/ethnicity. This is a part of the business. Every working actor in LA knows this. Why waste time auditioning unknown Asian actors if they already know what race they envision Light in this western adaptation.

It's not that Hollywood doesn't like Asian leads, it's that they don't think about them at all unless they're already bankable international stars like Jackie Chan and Jet Li.